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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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Somebody else may be able to chime in, but there was a post on here about a virus that makes your GPU go hard like that. I'll have to see if I can search for it. Try a different slot on your mobo. Here's the thread on the virus I was referring to. Maybe do a scan for it:

http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=523206&highlight=iehighutil+exe



I'd say you don't want to wait too long after the next series of cards come out. If you bought a 680 now and in November the 780 is announced, you have about a month - two month window where you can sell and get a decent amount back. Obviously the longer you wait the less you can potentially get, and the more available the newer card becomes your card becomes less attractive.

Holy shit I'm an idiot. I unchecked "enable graphics overdrive" somehow, haha. Problem solved.
 

Varna

Member
Dude I would wait... 690 is a better card. The Titan will go down as the most overrated card in history. Just think about this: Maxed with hair simulation at 2560x1600 Tombraider gets you 25 fps. You really think next gen games are going to run wonders on it? If you want to spend a fortune wait for the real killer cards once next gen starts.

Unless you really have money to burn and next year you want to spend another grand that is...

Thankfully there wasn't any in stock anywhere so that moment of madness has somewhat passed.

I'm still gaming @ 1080p so for now the 690GTX is the best thing. The latest few games have really been VRAM hungry and they have slowly been reaching the 2GB max on my card so I'm just a little worried about how this thing will handle games next year.

Strange question to ask but I will do it anyways. Does anyone know of any person who does PC case modding work? Like take request and whatnot?
 

HoosTrax

Member
NFC Systems S3 final design, for sale soon. There might be a Kickstarter as well.

jS2PRyzl.jpg


8xFPxYyl.jpg


K9W9F2xl.jpg
Hmm, not a fan of bare aluminum. Powder coated black or dark-gray would look better imho.

-What kind of expansion card is that in the last picture, and what is its purpose?
-Where does the power supply go?
 

Awesome! I'm looking at benchmarks for StarCraft 2 and it doesn't appear to be that much of an upgrade over my old card, which is weird...any idea why that would be?

3B7P7xI.png


Also I feel like I don't get that good of performance on my machine. Is StarCraft 2 a bit more CPU demanding? Maybe I can overclock a little bit harder, my machine stays very cool right now...
 

Smokey

Member
Well in that graph you posted, they are using a 3970x. Doesn't get any higher than that. I don't play S2, so not exactly sure what could be the cause of that. As for your CPU it's a little old, but still capable. See if you can get a little more out of it.
 

bro1

Banned
Just hooked up my system (i5 gtx670) to my HDTV which was ISF calibrated. I am hooking it up via hdmi and the picture is awful. Why am I getting a different picture than I do from my blu ray and DVR?
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Just hooked up my system (i5 gtx670) to my HDTV which was ISF calibrated. I am hooking it up via hdmi and the picture is awful. Why am I getting a different picture than I do from my blu ray and DVR?

PC using full range HDMI, or TV automatically switching into a PC mode
 

Hawk269

Member
I know there is a lot of talk about VRAM and stuff and I am not expert, but playing Bioshock at 1080p and every option in the games settings set to max and I am using upwards to 2.5gb of V-Ram. In Crysis 3, I have seen as high as 2.8gb of Vram. When I tried Downsampling from 2560x1440 Bioshock hit 4.0 V-Ram and Crysis 3 hit 4.5 vram.

Crysis 3 is also at 1080p and every option set to the max. So not sure with all the arguing going on about Vram, but if I am using more that 2.0gb in 2 recent PC games with everything set to max, I would think others that try to max and only have 2.0vram that they would have less FPS???
 

grendelrt

Member
I know there is a lot of talk about VRAM and stuff and I am not expert, but playing Bioshock at 1080p and every option in the games settings set to max and I am using upwards to 2.5gb of V-Ram. In Crysis 3, I have seen as high as 2.8gb of Vram. When I tried Downsampling from 2560x1440 Bioshock hit 4.0 V-Ram and Crysis 3 hit 4.5 vram.

Crysis 3 is also at 1080p and every option set to the max. So not sure with all the arguing going on about Vram, but if I am using more that 2.0gb in 2 recent PC games with everything set to max, I would think others that try to max and only have 2.0vram that they would have less FPS???

I run crysis 3 maxed with 2x 670 2GB and have never seen any issues. I am a bit worried once new gen comes for consoles and they have that extra space to use, but can always sell and re upgrade =)
 

kharma45

Member
It's just speculation though.

To be honest, I don't know nearly enough about game engines or programming to say one way or the other. I have to rely on testing and data.

Would be killer if we could get a programmer from Epic in here to help out :p

Thread over on Anandtech discussing the same thing about VRAM as we are here, pulled a few graphs from it

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2310384

Crysis 3 VRAM usage

LL



Source

Hitman Absolution appears to also be VRAM hungry

Concerning 5760x1200.

"In the apples-to-apples test we have 2X MSAA enabled, and you can see that TITAN is literally over 100% faster. The reason is because GTX 680 SLI is severely bottlenecked at 2X MSAA due to its limited 2GB framebuffer, it isn't achieving the highest possible framerates it could, due to that limit. Therefore, TITAN is able to outshine it and achieve its full potential of performance in this game, which is amazing."

Regarding 1600p and 4xMSAA

"With the GeForce GTX TITAN we were able to play this game at the highest in-game settings with no less than 4X MSAA enabled at 2560x1600. To this date, no other video card has been capable of giving us that level of performance. The 2GB GTX 680 struggles at 4X MSAA because of its VRAM limit, and the 3GB HD 7970 GHz Edition struggles because it just isn't fast enough at 4X MSAA in this game.

The minimum framerate is also important, as in this game, with VRAM being a limiting factor, it can drop quite low. The GeForce GTX TITAN only drops to 39 FPS at 4X MSAA, which is amazing, while the GTX 680 with 2GB drops to 29 FPS, and the 3GB HD 7970 GE drops to 34 FPS. "

The guy who posted this stuff that I've copied over also did his own Skyrim test too


Also this site here, if you can navigate it, lists VRAM usage in most modern games. One last thing user BrightCandle posted this, although I'm just of course taking his word for it but he has various posts through the thread and they are worth a read, as is the whole thread on the issue of VRAM
The thing is some games load information they don't directly need into the GPU because they expect to need it at some point soon. In theory it improves performance, but it also distorts the picture of the required VRAM. Its used a lot with ansitropic filtering where all the detail levels are loaded but then some of them are dropped when it turns out you aren't even remotely close enough to use them and the VRAM would be better used elsewhere.

So allocation count while interesting and indicative doesn't prove there is a problem, it proves the maximum utilisation given the games free reign to do what it likes. The problems show up in the performance if there is a problem and not in the afterburner captured VRAM allocation count.

A great example of this is Tomb Raider. Tomb raider actually runs better on a 680 GTX, but according to the reviews that game utilises 2.5GB of VRAM on the Radeon but only 2.0GB on the GeForce. Yet the 680 performs better. If the actual allocation was over 2.0 you would still see that, overallocation shows up in afterburner as well so what is actually happening is the game is just not loading certain cached assets, but it has no practical impact on the performance.

BF3 is another example of a game that in surround over allocates but then doesn't need them to run smoothly.

There are many examples of this but you really have to go quite extreme to actually see performance degrade due to the VRAM limitation. When you get to that point your frame rate is normally so low anyway it really doesn't matter. The grand majority of games actually sit around 1GB of VRAM usage at these sorts of resolutions.

So many references to reviews showing that it makes no difference and it really doesn't. I was a happy surround gamer for years and had no issues on lower amounts of VRAM, I only recently swapped to 120Hz in preference after a lot of recent games showed not to support the mode very well. But it still ran the games well, there wasn't an issue. You run out of performance before you run out of VRAM.

Hopefully some of this is of use to you. I also found this from 2007, might still be relevant http://www.yougamers.com/articles/13801_video_ram_-_how_much_do_you_really_need/
 

LowParry

Member
Router question.

So right now I'm still using a DLink DGL-4500. Probably been about 4+ years. Or around that range. I don't recall but it's been a good while. It's been kinda acting funny here and there where one day it will work as intended, and others where things feel slow with my gaming online, etc. So would upgrading this router to something more up to date be efficient? And if so, what are some good recommendations?
 

Katyusha

Member
Just got back from Micro Center, exchanged my CX 750 PSU for an HX 750, I heard some good things about that PSU and I trust that it won't be DOA like the CX that I exchanged.
 

Smokey

Member
I know there is a lot of talk about VRAM and stuff and I am not expert, but playing Bioshock at 1080p and every option in the games settings set to max and I am using upwards to 2.5gb of V-Ram. In Crysis 3, I have seen as high as 2.8gb of Vram. When I tried Downsampling from 2560x1440 Bioshock hit 4.0 V-Ram and Crysis 3 hit 4.5 vram.

Crysis 3 is also at 1080p and every option set to the max. So not sure with all the arguing going on about Vram, but if I am using more that 2.0gb in 2 recent PC games with everything set to max, I would think others that try to max and only have 2.0vram that they would have less FPS???


Wait 4GB in Crysis 3?

You must be downsampling AND using AA? I just tried it. Downsampling from 3840x2400, Very High to my native resolution of 2560x1600 gave me a smooth, locked 30fps (my monitor will only refresh at 30hz at this res). AA was off VRAM was sitting at 2.6GB.

Tried again after reading your post, this time with 4x MSAA and it skyrocketed up to 3.8GB. You shouldn't have to play with AA if you're downsampling...

Although playing at 3840x2400 + 4x MSAA just about broke the Titans heh. Was getting around 22-25 fps.
 

Pandemic

Member
Hey, is it better to have a PC tower on top of the desk or inside a desk cupboard? When I ask this I'm wondering does it get more dust from inside the cupboard, on top, or does it get better breathing when at the top?

Thanks
 

HenryHSH

Member
I just grabbed a Sapphire 7970 3GB ($440), upgrading from a XFX 5770.

I'm sure it will be a significant boost to my eyefinity gaming, but I can't help shake the feeling that I shouldn't have upgraded just yet.

Maybe I'll feel better about the purchase once I have the card in my rig lol
 

brentech

Member
Hey, is it better to have a PC tower on top of the desk or inside a desk cupboard? When I ask this I'm wondering does it get more dust from inside the cupboard, on top, or does it get better breathing when at the top?

Thanks

Temps will definitely rise on it if it's inside an enclosed space. I'd be more worried of that than dust that can be blown out.
 

avaya

Member
So just got a warning about the 3.3v rail showing abnormal voltages according to AI suite. System is rock solid, received these after 12hrs straight uptime. The power led on my fractal define R4 is also turning off and on randomly.

Specs

Rampage IV Formula
I7 3820
AX860
2x Titan


Is it a PSU issue? Do I have to reseat the cables? Very concerned since this is a new build only 6 days old.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
Just got back from Micro Center, exchanged my CX 750 PSU for an HX 750, I heard some good things about that PSU and I trust that it won't be DOA like the CX that I exchanged.

Good choice, I've owned 2 Corsair HX850 units and the quality/reliability was fantastic.
 

Smokey

Member
I just grabbed a Sapphire 7970 3GB ($440), upgrading from a XFX 5770.

I'm sure it will be a significant boost to my eyefinity gaming, but I can't help shake the feeling that I shouldn't have upgraded just yet.

Maybe I'll feel better about the purchase once I have the card in my rig lol

So you were using a single 5770 for Eyefinity?

Bruh you about to be rockin when that 7970 comes in
 

knitoe

Member
So just got a warning about the 3.3v rail showing abnormal voltages according to AI suite. System is rock solid, received these after 12hrs straight uptime. The power led on my fractal define R4 is also turning off and on randomly.

Specs

Rampage IV Formula
I7 3820
AX860
2x Titan


Is it a PSU issue? Do I have to reseat the cables? Very concerned since this is a new build only 6 days old.
If it's rock stable, doesn't seem to be the PSU. Run something graphic intensive in a loop and monitor the voltages. Personally, I would have gone with a 1000W+ PSU after spending that much.

When is the 7990 out? Will it last me for the entirety of next gen?
I wouldn't recommend a CF setup, like the 7990, until AMD comes out with drivers fixing CFs.
 
Wait 4GB in Crysis 3?

You must be downsampling AND using AA? I just tried it. Downsampling from 3840x2400, Very High to my native resolution of 2560x1600 gave me a smooth, locked 30fps (my monitor will only refresh at 30hz at this res). AA was off VRAM was sitting at 2.6GB.

Tried again after reading your post, this time with 4x MSAA and it skyrocketed up to 3.8GB. You shouldn't have to play with AA if you're downsampling...

Although playing at 3840x2400 + 4x MSAA just about broke the Titans heh. Was getting around 22-25 fps.

time for a 7990? :p
 
I'm curious, does fractal sell the define r4 non-window side (with the fan) panel by itself?

Also I'm looking at ways to cool down my GPU. I currently have a 600w Corsair GS600 and I'm wondering if maybe buying a higher quality PSU with more power will help with temperatures with overclocking on my 7950? The thing has 2 8 pin connectors lol.
 

DryvBy

Member
Does anyone else have a D-Link DIR-655 router and use wireless N? I'm kinda noobish with my router but for having a 50 mbps connect, I can't for the life of me to get this working at decent speeds.

Any routers someone could recommend so I can play my games like a champ?
 

HenryHSH

Member
So you were using a single 5770 for Eyefinity?

Bruh you about to be rockin when that 7970 comes in

Yep! I bought the 5770 as a temp card to test my system in eyefinity before committing to the setup. I'd already spent a crap-ton on monitors, a 2500k, 16GB ram and a p8z68 board, so a cheap temporary solution to test things out seemed like a good idea at the time...

I mostly played games that weren't very demanding such as racing sims, Dota 2 and Diablo 3. But recent games like Sleeping Dogs reminded me that I'm overdue for a solid upgrade.
 

brentech

Member
Just got back from Micro Center, exchanged my CX 750 PSU for an HX 750, I heard some good things about that PSU and I trust that it won't be DOA like the CX that I exchanged.
While I haven't had any problems with it, the guy at Microcenter persuaded me to purchase a ThermalTake TR2. After purchase I find out its not highly regarded at all. Just looked up that HX750 and might order that thing off amazon myself.
Gotta look at some others, but that's about the most I want to spend. Will just ebay this thermaltake or something.
 

knitoe

Member
Does anyone else have a D-Link DIR-655 router and use wireless N? I'm kinda noobish with my router but for having a 50 mbps connect, I can't for the life of me to get this working at decent speeds.

Any routers someone could recommend so I can play my games like a champ?

I used to have that router. It's only a 2.4GHz router. For max speed, you need to enable 40mhz channel and use WPA2/AES encryption. If you use any other encryption, it drops down to G speeds.

What's wrong with 655 for games? You don't need fast download or upload for gaming. If you want to new router, get a dual band N or AC.
 

DryvBy

Member
I used to have that router. It's only a 2.4GHz router. For max speed, you need to enable 40mhz channel and use WPA2/AES encryption. If you use any other encryption, it drops down to G speeds.

What's wrong with 655 for games? You don't need fast download or upload for gaming.

It's for hosting servers for big groups.

I use MAC addresses. I had no idea the WPA2/AES was actually effecting speed.
 

Hawk269

Member
I run crysis 3 maxed with 2x 670 2GB and have never seen any issues. I am a bit worried once new gen comes for consoles and they have that extra space to use, but can always sell and re upgrade =)

Is that with everything and I mean everything set to max and you are getting 60fps? Even the highest MXAA setting?
 

DryvBy

Member
For hosting games, what's your upload speed?

Well, here's the issue. My upload is averaging around 6mbps. My download is all over the place. One minute I test, I'm barely at 5mbps. A few minutes later, I'm at 9mbps. Super slow, I know. But that's when I use my wireless n card. On my USB Belkin G MIMO card, I'm getting around 18mbps download and 6mbps upload.

I think my card (2nd one, I thought the first one was busted) and my router just hate each other. And the security didn't work for me. I guess I'm just going to stick with G until I can afford a newer model router.

Also, I think I know what you're saying. Download doesn't really affect my server...
 

Hawk269

Member
Wait 4GB in Crysis 3?

You must be downsampling AND using AA? I just tried it. Downsampling from 3840x2400, Very High to my native resolution of 2560x1600 gave me a smooth, locked 30fps (my monitor will only refresh at 30hz at this res). AA was off VRAM was sitting at 2.6GB.

Tried again after reading your post, this time with 4x MSAA and it skyrocketed up to 3.8GB. You shouldn't have to play with AA if you're downsampling...

Although playing at 3840x2400 + 4x MSAA just about broke the Titans heh. Was getting around 22-25 fps.

I was down sampling at one point at 3100x1800 or something close to that (I don't remember) and with 8xMSAA and was getting around 30-35fps in most areas...this is where I saw about 4.5 of V-ram being used.

Let me ask you something Smokey, so if you are using down sampling, should you be turning off AA methods? I tried a little down sampling and honestly could not really tell the difference to be honest and this was taking 2560x1440 and the higher one of 3100x1800 or whatever it was that I used and had a hard time telling them apart from even 1080p. Of course I am gaming on my HDTV so not sure if that has an impact or not. With down sampling, I am a noob! lol
 

Smokey

Member
I was down sampling at one point at 3100x1800 or something close to that (I don't remember) and with 8xMSAA and was getting around 30-35fps in most areas...this is where I saw about 4.5 of V-ram being used.

Let me ask you something Smokey, so if you are using down sampling, should you be turning off AA methods? I tried a little down sampling and honestly could not really tell the difference to be honest and this was taking 2560x1440 and the higher one of 3100x1800 or whatever it was that I used and had a hard time telling them apart from even 1080p. Of course I am gaming on my HDTV so not sure if that has an impact or not. With down sampling, I am a noob! lol

Down sampling by it's very nature, gives you "free AA". You're taking a higher resolution and rendering it on lower resolution panel. What you were doing was rendering at that crazy resolution AND throwing 8x MSAA on top of that. That's tough lol. Down sampling is all about the "bull shot" effect. What you were doing may be fine if you want to post screens in the bullshot thread, but if you wanted to try and game at that you don't want to be adding more AA on top of an already demanding resolution. Of course there's wiggle room here. You could add something like 2x AA or whatever if you wanted.

When I was actually playing Crysis 3, I was running it at Very High 3840x2400 with no AA, and was locked in at 30 fps. It looked like AA was enabled but of course it was not. This is what down sampling gives you, along with more resolution to play with as well.
 

Hawk269

Member
Down sampling by it's very nature, gives you "free AA". You're taking a higher resolution and rendering it on lower resolution panel. What you were doing was rendering at that crazy resolution AND throwing 8x MSAA on top of that. That's tough lol.

Down sampling is all about the "bull shot" effect. What you were doing may be fine if you want to post screens in the bullshot thread, but if you wanted to try and game at that you don't want to be adding more AA on top of an already demanding resolution. Of course there's wiggle room here. You could add something like 2x AA or whatever if you wanted.

When I was actually playing Crysis 3, I was running it at Very High 3840x2400 with no AA, and was locked in at 30 fps. It looked like AA was enabled but of course it was not. This is what down sampling gives you, along with more resolution to play with as well.

Got it. My fiancé and I were having a hard time telling the difference. I guess also we tried using Need for Speed Hot Pursuit which is notorious for not having any AA solution and we could not tell any AA difference between 1080p and the other higher resolutions.

Also Smokey, do you use any software to do any modifications to visuals such as D3Overider? If so, any feedback on how they play with the Titans?
 

Smokey

Member
Got it. My fiancé and I were having a hard time telling the difference. I guess also we tried using Need for Speed Hot Pursuit which is notorious for not having any AA solution and we could not tell any AA difference between 1080p and the other higher resolutions.

Also Smokey, do you use any software to do any modifications to visuals such as D3Overider? If so, any feedback on how they play with the Titans?

To be fair you're also using a 55'' TV and are probably sitting a fair distance away. On a computer monitor it's in your face and much easier to tell the difference.

I don't use D3O or anything. I have Inspector and that's about it.
 

Hawk269

Member
To be fair you're also using a 55'' TV and are probably sitting a fair distance away. On a computer monitor it's in your face and much easier to tell the difference.

I don't use D3O or anything. I have Inspector and that's about it.

What do use Inspector for? I know not all games will read the forced triple buffering option in the NV control panel and it has been a while since I used any of the Inspector or D3O, so just looking for input on what you use it for and how helpful it has been.
 

Varna

Member
Having a big issue with the 690 I just got back. :(

GPU1 is acting really strange. Power usage is reading 380+% in Precision X and it's not clocking up. So it's in idle more even during games.
 

Smokey

Member
What do use Inspector for? I know not all games will read the forced triple buffering option in the NV control panel and it has been a while since I used any of the Inspector or D3O, so just looking for input on what you use it for and how helpful it has been.

Mainly for SLI bits. Was having some issues in Bioshock Infinite for example. Read the Performance thread and there was a mention of using certain bits for BI. Used them and have had better performance.

Having a big issue with the 690 I just got back. :(

GPU1 is acting really strange. Power usage is reading 380+% in Precision X and it's not clocking up. So it's in idle more even during games.

You try disabling each GPU and trying them individually? Also try uninstalling Precision and re-installing. There should be a option for K-Boost, which will make your cards run at the boost clocks 24/7. You could try that too and see if it clocks up.
 

Hawk269

Member
Having a big issue with the 690 I just got back. :(

GPU1 is acting really strange. Power usage is reading 380+% in Precision X and it's not clocking up. So it's in idle more even during games.

Uninstall Precision X and Re-Install. I had some weird stuff with my Titan's where one of them was in a constant Boost state even on desktop. Try it to see if it works.
 

Hawk269

Member
Mainly for SLI bits. Was having some issues in Bioshock Infinite for example. Read the Performance thread and there was a mention of using certain bits for BI. Used them and have had better performance.



You try disabling each GPU and trying them individually?

What issues were you having with Bio? I have not had any issues with it other than the random slight pause/drop in FPS when it is doing back round loading, which in it self is a pain since it drops to around 20fps or so for a split second. Does not happen a lot, but I can recreate it in certain parts of the intro by moving back and forth and even seeing stuff in the far back round appear/disappear.
 

brentech

Member
While I haven't had any problems with it, the guy at Microcenter persuaded me to purchase a ThermalTake TR2. After purchase I find out its not highly regarded at all. Just looked up that HX750 and might order that thing off amazon myself.
Gotta look at some others, but that's about the most I want to spend. Will just ebay this thermaltake or something.
Hrm, looks like my case can't support that width. Will have to find another PSU that I can upgrade to that I like.


Nevermind, they likely list the package dimensions on amazon, not the actual products. Newegg shows it as 5.9"(W) x 3.4"(H) x 7.09"(L). So that will work. Think I'll pull the trigger on that HX750
 

Smokey

Member
What issues were you having with Bio? I have not had any issues with it other than the random slight pause/drop in FPS when it is doing back round loading, which in it self is a pain since it drops to around 20fps or so for a split second. Does not happen a lot, but I can recreate it in certain parts of the intro by moving back and forth and even seeing stuff in the far back round appear/disappear.

Had some off GPU scaling. The stuttering is a problem with the game, and I guess UE3 engine in general. The devs are aware of it.
 
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