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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Smash88 said:
Sorry for the shitty iPhone pic. Just finished my build.

i7 4770k
Asus Sabertooth Z87
GTX Titan
Samsung 840 Pro
16GB DDR3 2133mhz Corsair Dominator Platinum

Running like a fucking champ. And so cool. Idle temps for me 35C on an H100i.

Coming from Q6600-4gb ddr2-gtx 470. The change is amazing. So smooth and I can load into Windows 8 in 5 seconds. FUCKING WUT!

Shout out to everyone that's helped me.
Click to expand...
Grats. Buyers remorse = vanished, right? :)

Now stop those game installs and get to OC testing for science.
 
S

Smash88

Banned
Hazaro said:
Grats. Buyers remorse = vanished, right? :)

Now stop those game installs and get to OC testing for science.
Click to expand...

Last time I OCed anything was on a Q6600.

Got any guides for Haswell OCing? Also UEFI is amazing. Way better than the old BIOS system.

Once everything is there, it's just such a magical feeling. Also after 6 hours of bleeding and scraping, and putting everything together, it's just the most gratifying experience.

Also I set my memory to XMP in the UEFI. Which when I start up, my post screen shows 2133mhz, but CPU-Z says this.

sOqOsjN.jpg


Max bandwidth is not 2133.
 
U

usea

Member
OK after doing a lot of research, it seems these are some of the best 23-24" IPS panels for gaming:
Asus VG23AH $200
ASUS PA248Q $310
Dell UltraSharp U2312HM $200
EIZO Foris FS2333-BK $430
The Dell has a very matte coating, but is otherwise fine.
The VG23AH has a semi-glossy coating and is pretty great. The 3d polarization coating might show up as vertical lines on solid, light backgrounds to some people.
The EIZO is best-in-class, but expensive. You can get it cheaper if you find a local place that will import it.

Yes, I realize this mostly agrees with the OP. But it didn't have any info about which monitors were good for which purposes.

And obviously, if input lag is your biggest concern (fighting game players) then just get a TN.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
usea said:
OK after doing a lot of research, it seems these are some of the best 23-24" IPS panels for gaming:
Asus VG23AH $200
ASUS PA248Q $310
Dell UltraSharp U2312HM $200
EIZO Foris FS2333-BK $430
The Dell has a very matte coating, but is otherwise fine.
The VG23AH has a semi-glossy coating and is pretty great. The 3d polarization coating might show up as vertical lines on solid, light backgrounds to some people.
The EIZO is best-in-class, but expensive. You can get it cheaper if you find a local place that will import it.

Yes, I realize this mostly agrees with the OP. But it didn't have any info about which monitors were good for which purposes.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about that newer asus ips monitor, but do know I've seen that Dell for around $170 on amazon directly from amazon before.
 
W

Whiteshirt

Member
usea said:
I'm looking at Asus VG23AH, but I can't find any quality reviews of its performance.
Click to expand...

Here is a review of the VG23AH. Its a user review but its mostly the same quality as any review from Prad or TFT Central.

usea said:
OK after doing a lot of research, it seems these are some of the best 23-24" IPS panels for gaming:
Asus VG23AH $200
ASUS PA248Q $310
Dell UltraSharp U2312HM $200
EIZO Foris FS2333-BK $430
The Dell has a very matte coating, but is otherwise fine.
The VG23AH has a semi-glossy coating and is pretty great. The 3d polarization coating might show up as vertical lines on solid, light backgrounds to some people.
The EIZO is best-in-class, but expensive. You can get it cheaper if you find a local place that will import it.

Yes, I realize this mostly agrees with the OP. But it didn't have any info about which monitors were good for which purposes.

And obviously, if input lag is your biggest concern (fighting game players) then just get a TN.
Click to expand...

The monitors in the OP are focused towards gaming, since most people building PCs here are building PCs for gaming and not for professional applications or whatnot.

As for input lag, these IPS monitors are just as good, if not better, than most TN monitors on the market. In terms of 60hz performance, I don't think the VG23AH can be beat especially if you consider the fact it can easily do 72hz.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
usea said:
OK after doing a lot of research, it seems these are some of the best 23-24" IPS panels for gaming:
Asus VG23AH $200
ASUS PA248Q $310
Dell UltraSharp U2312HM $200
EIZO Foris FS2333-BK $430
The Dell has a very matte coating, but is otherwise fine.
The VG23AH has a semi-glossy coating and is pretty great. The 3d polarization coating might show up as vertical lines on solid, light backgrounds to some people.
The EIZO is best-in-class, but expensive. You can get it cheaper if you find a local place that will import it.

Yes, I realize this mostly agrees with the OP. But it didn't have any info about which monitors were good for which purposes.

And obviously, if input lag is your biggest concern (fighting game players) then just get a TN.
Click to expand...
As mentioned before the Monitors in the OP are picked with gaming in mind where a lower response time and some things like ghosting are minimized.

If you have any suggestions for the IPS Panels listed (or validating the picks there), that would be appreciated.
Smash88 said:
Last time I OCed anything was on a Q6600.

Got any guides for Haswell OCing? Also UEFI is amazing. Way better than the old BIOS system.

Also I set my memory to XMP in the UEFI. Which when I start up, my post screen shows 2133mhz, but CPU-Z says this.

sOqOsjN.jpg


Max bandwidth is not 2133.
Click to expand...
1066 * Double Data Rate = 2133 so you are good.
The Max Bandwidth is probably just some legacy rated 'approved' rating. It's set data like the JEDEC stuff, not something probed.



You can use this giant 31 page ASUS document:
It seems like ~4.2Ghz will be the starting point and 4.6GHz a target for many. It seems like the OC's are pretty horrible since they produce so much heat and use so much more power.
http://kylebennett.com/ASUS/OCingGuidev0.99.zip

You can have a CPU capable of 4.8GHz with a DDR3-1600 DRAM divider. (High OC can screw up memory OC)
You can have a CPU capable of 4.8GHz with a DDR3-2400 DRAM divider.
You can have a CPU capable of 4.8GHz with a 48 cache ratio with a DDR3-2400 DRAM
divider.

1. Approximately 70% of CPUs can go up to 4.5GHz. Overall, most CPUs are capable of
reaching 44x to 45x with varying levels of voltage. Voltage will be a key item as it defines thermal
output. It is possible to run out of thermal headroom at lower frequencies due to a processor
requiring excessive voltage for stability.
2. Approximately 30% of CPUs can go up to 4.6GHz
3. Approximately 20% of CPUs can go up to 4.7GHz
4. Approximately 10% of CPUs can go up to 4.8GHz

Currently we are seeing voltage ranges between 1.150v to as much as 1.400 for similar/same
frequencies. An example would be 4.6GHz requiring 1.200 and another CPU requiring 1.400.
This is important as a the overall maximum load a single radiator single 120mm closed loop
cooling solution can dissipate under synthetic stress test load is approximately 1.250 to 1.275v.
This is assuming the ambient temperature is reasonable.

A voltage level of 1.350v or greater, is too high for enthusiast cooling solutions including water
cooling. With this in mind, maximum temperatures should be gauged by the use of real world
applications rather than synthetic stress tests.

Given Haswell’s thermal characteristics, pursuing per core overclocking can be beneficial as this
helps to maximize core frequency for various loading conditions.

For a 4.6 GHz overclock attempt: However you set the voltage, it is advised you set a VID of
1.200.
For a 4.8 GHz overclock attempt: However you set the voltage, it is advised you set a VID of
1.300

For voltages up to 1.250-1.265 a cooling solution meeting a minimum of a Corsair H80i is
advised.
For voltages up to 1.275-1.300 a cooling solution meeting a minimum of a Corsair H100i is
advised.
Click to expand...
 
S

Smash88

Banned
Hazaro said:
1066 * Double Data Rate = 2133 so you are good.
The Max Bandwidth is probably just some legacy rated 'approved' rating. It's set data like the JEDEC stuff, not something probed.



You can use this giant 31 page ASUS document:
It seems like ~4.2Ghz will be the starting point and 4.6GHz a target for many. It seems like the OC's are pretty horrible since they produce so much heat and use so much more power.
http://kylebennett.com/ASUS/OCingGuidev0.99.zip
Click to expand...

Thank you once again good sir.

I will check it out tomorrow. I have to take out my GPU tomorrow in order to install the backplate. I need to buy a stupid star screwdriver which apparently I do not have, and nothing else worked.

Can I safely remove my GPU and put it back in? Or do I need to set my UEFI to default settings? I had previous issues if I removed my GPU (in the old computer), never mind sneezed on it, it would have some sort of issue.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Smash88 said:
Thank you once again good sir.

I will check it out tomorrow. I have to take out my GPU tomorrow in order to install the backplate. I need to buy a stupid star screwdriver which apparently I do not have, and nothing else worked.

Can I safely remove my GPU and put it back in? Or do I need to set my UEFI to default settings? I had previous issues if I removed my GPU (in the old computer), never mind sneezed on it, it would have some sort of issue.
Click to expand...
Yup, that's fine. Just make sure PC is off and switch on the back is off too.
 
G

ginger ninja

Banned
another noob question coming through, i am reading about all these haswell compatible motherboard reviews and they keep mentioning how one is mini atx and another is e-atx and so on...can someone give me a quick overview of what this means, like what it means in terms of motherboard hardware ? thanks
 
K

kharma45

Member
ginger ninja said:
another noob question coming through, i am reading about all these haswell compatible motherboard reviews and they keep mentioning how one is mini atx and another is e-atx and so on...can someone give me a quick overview of what this means ? thanks
Click to expand...

They're different sizes, typically the main ones you'll deal with are

  • mITX - For SFF builds
  • mATX - Typically cheaper than their ATX cousins as they're smaller and have less features
  • ATX - What I'd call just a standard motherboard

Size comparison below with some other even smaller boards which you'll likely never deal with

jsE4ZMy.jpg
Click to expand...
 
M

MedIC86

Member
Im reading up some motherboard reviews but dang, why spend 400-500 bucks on a gigabyte mobo if the cpu overclocks so bad (as in the thermal problems)
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Wolf Akela said:
Do I go Corsair M95


Or blow my money on a Steelseries Frost Blue Sensei (what's the difference between Senseis?)


M95 has a lot bells and whistles + cheaper

Sensei's simplicity is gorgeous, but other Senseis look atrocious
Click to expand...
I've held a few Corsair mice and hate all of them.

Sensei is small and cramped my big hand. If you can't get the white in rubberized, I wouldn't get it (my pref). But it's what you should get if you can tinker around with it. Good mouse though.
 
W

Wolf Akela

Member
Hazaro said:
I've held a few Corsair mice and hate all of them.

Sensei is small and cramped my big hand. If you can't get the white in rubberized, I wouldn't get it (my pref). But it's what you should get if you can tinker around with it. Good mouse though.
Click to expand...
Why the hate on the Corsairs (which ones)?

Do you claw or palm grip? I claw grip so I don't like big mice even if I have big hands. I handled a G500 and G9x but they didn't like claw grip. For reference I currently have a Logitech M310 which feels perfect in size, but is inaccurate and lacks side buttons.

wireless-mouse-m310.png
Click to expand...
 
O

Omega

Banned
Is the Radeon HD 4850 compatible with ASRock B75M-DGS?

My GPU ended up being defective so my friend gave me his old 4850. When I put it in it just beeps because it's not reading that there's a graphics card in.

I'm not sure if I'm just putting it in wrong
 
H

Horse Armour

Member
Hazaro said:
Clarify?
Click to expand...
I meant are the expected OCs for Haswell not the same as Ivy Bridge based on the percentages for various clockrates found in that PDF?
Clint Beastwood said:
Is the Radeon HD 4850 compatible with ASRock B75M-DGS?

My GPU ended up being defective so my friend gave me his old 4850. When I put it in it just beeps because it's not reading that there's a graphics card in.

I'm not sure if I'm just putting it in wrong
Click to expand...
Did you plug in the PCI Express power cable?
 
A

Addnan

Member
Clint Beastwood said:
Is the Radeon HD 4850 compatible with ASRock B75M-DGS?

My GPU ended up being defective so my friend gave me his old 4850. When I put it in it just beeps because it's not reading that there's a graphics card in.

I'm not sure if I'm just putting it in wrong
Click to expand...
Yes, it should work, check all cables.
 
O

Omega

Banned
Horse Armour said:
I meant are the expected OCs for Haswell not the same as Ivy Bridge based on the percentages for various clockrates found in that PDF?
Did you plug in the PCI Express power cable?
Click to expand...

Yeah at first I forgot, then I checked and when I plugged it in it still gave me the beeps.

To make sure the beeps were for no GPU, I put back in my defective one and didn't get any so I don't know what going on.
 
T

Tensketch

Member
Reading these comments it's starting to look like I should just buy myself a 3570k and save myself some money. The initial response of this new socket ranges from 'meh' to 'wtf?!'

I've never OC'ed a CPU before but I was under the impression that this chip would be fantastic to OC.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
Tensketch said:
Reading these comments it's starting to look like I should just buy myself a 3570k and save myself some money. The initial response of this new socket ranges from 'meh' to 'wtf?!'

I've never OC'ed a CPU before but I was under the impression that this chip would be fantastic to OC.
Click to expand...

We all hoped the same. Hoped that they would go back to the solder.
 
J

j0hnny_385

Member
IvanI said:
original post here
Click to expand...

So regarding my planned Haswell upgrade, I've called some local hardware shops and the situation is as follows (I'm in Croatia):

- Haswell CPUs will be on sale starting tomorrow. So that's good.

- There are no Z87 boards incoming which is kinda weird. I assumed Asus, Gigabyte & co. started to ship those?

No one has Corsair H80i in stock at the moment. Damn. :/ What would be a good, future proof cooling solution for my Haswell i5 or i7 CPU? No OCing for a number of years. AFAIK, Corsair water cooling solutions are good but they're not that quiet? I guess I can control H80i with that program of their to lower the fan speed?
 
L

LordAlu

Member
IvanI said:
So regarding my planned Haswell upgrade, I've called some local hardware shops and the situation is as follows (I'm in Croatia):

- Haswell CPUs will be on sale starting tomorrow. So that's good.

- There are no Z87 boards incoming which is kinda weird. I assumed Asus, Gigabyte & co. started to ship those?

No one has Corsair H80i in stock at the moment. Damn. :/ What would be a good, future proof cooling solution for my Haswell i5 or i7 CPU? No OCing for a number of years. AFAIK, Corsair water cooling solutions are good but they're not that quiet? I guess I can control H80i with that program of their to lower the fan speed?
Click to expand...
Asus/Gigabyte/MSI boards are all readily availble at retailers, certainly in the US and most of the EU. It seems a bit strange that places would have Haswell CPUs for sale but no motherboards to put them in!
 
L

lordy88

Member
I'm getting a new computer after three years, and I'm super excited about it. Here is the most recent build I've whipped up for it, and I wanted to make sure I hadn't screwed anything up before I pull the trigger. I already have Ram, mouse, monitor, OS, a disc drive, and a PCI Firewire card.

Aim Price: sub $1000
Usage: A decent amount of gaming and Pro Tools editing.
Overclock?: Not 100% yet if I should do it, as I have zero experience with it. Should I spend the extra bit to get the K, or drop to down Sandy Bridge K to make it easier? What performance boost would I get?

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI B85-G41 PC Mate ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($87.55 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($159.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 1.5TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($187.99 @ Newegg)
Wireless Network Adapter: Rosewill RNX-N250PCe 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($17.24 @ Amazon)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi Window ATX Mid Tower Case ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Antec Basiq Plus 550W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Keyboard: V7 KM0B1-6N6 Wired Standard Keyboard ($13.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $931.70

Thanks immensely for any help in advance!
 
A

Addnan

Member
How's this. $991 before your keyboard and wireless card.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($22.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($53.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($187.99 @ Newegg)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($72.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $953.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-03 09:52 EDT-0400)

edit, damn it. It changes to microcentre. If you don't have one, its going to be more. In the link its not though.
 
T

turbosnail

Banned
So I found out I have a micro center by my workplace, and I get paid on Friday, should I buy the 4770k ASAP? Or are the deals going to get better? Also what kind should I buy in order to get the most power out of my rig that I'm building?
 
A

Addnan

Member
turbosnail said:
So I found out I have a micro center by my workplace, and I get paid on Friday, should I buy the 4770k ASAP? Or are the deals going to get better? Also what kind should I buy in order to get the most power out of my rig that I'm building?
Click to expand...

Deals won't get any better than that one. Buy it!
 
L

lordy88

Member
kharma45 said:
Do you have a Micro Center nearby?
Click to expand...

Addnan said:
How's this. $991 before your keyboard and wireless card.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($22.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($53.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($187.99 @ Newegg)
Case: BitFenix Shinobi ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12II 520W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($72.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $953.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-03 09:52 EDT-0400)

edit, damn it. It changes to microcentre. If you don't have one, its going to be more. In the link its not though.
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, I do not have a micro center nearby, so I switched it to Newegg for the combo discount with the MOBO.

I need a bigger secondary drive since I'll be using it for Pro Tools as well, but I don't need the extra Ram either.

What is the main improvement with the MOBO that you chose?

Thanks for help!
 
P

PoweredBySoy

Banned
turbosnail said:
So I found out I have a micro center by my workplace, and I get paid on Friday, should I buy the 4770k ASAP? Or are the deals going to get better? Also what kind should I buy in order to get the most power out of my rig that I'm building?
Click to expand...

Be sure to check availability. Between yesterday and now my Microcenter (St Louis Park) almost completely ran out of stock. Just a couple S models left. So for now my upgrade is delayed. =( Regardless I'll probably swing by later today to see if they have anything on the floor, and ask when they expect the next shipment.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
turbosnail said:
So I found out I have a micro center by my workplace, and I get paid on Friday, should I buy the 4770k ASAP? Or are the deals going to get better? Also what kind should I buy in order to get the most power out of my rig that I'm building?
Click to expand...

Historically you don't need to rush their normal deals. They have always sold the cpus for a bit cheaper then newegg along with some sort of $40-$50 off a motherboard combo for the latest K series processors. Basically you should feel fairly safe waiting to hear more about motherboard quality before buying if you want.
 
A

Addnan

Member
lordy88 said:
Unfortunately, I do not have a micro center nearby, so I switched it to Newegg for the combo discount with the MOBO.

I need a bigger secondary drive since I'll be using it for Pro Tools as well, but I don't need the extra Ram either.

What is the main improvement with the MOBO that you chose?

Thanks for help!
Click to expand...
Main thing, it is a z87 and so you will be able to overclock the 4670K when you feel comfortable to do so. Early reviews look positive for this board, the build quality looks good for the price.
 
P

PoweredBySoy

Banned
turbosnail said:
Sweet! Thanks. I'm not sure what OC'ing really does(I know it increases 'clock speeds') but should I over clock it? I don't want to risk doing it my self so I would probably find a place todo it for me
Click to expand...

I would say 'no'. I used to play around with overclocking years ago, but grew bored with the risk/problems of it for the marginal performance gains. Of course there's always the hobby of trying to see how far you can push a cpu, but I never got into that.

These days chips have 'turbo' built in, and most motherboards have automatic OC tools which makes it as easy as clicking a button. The mystique of overclocking is gone, and the new Intels don't seem as designed for it.
 
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