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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 1. Haswell, Crysis 3, and secret fairy sauce. Read da OP

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Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
As far as I can see, no one has messed up their CPU so far using the vice method unlike the razor blade method so I'm not too worried. Also, do you actually need that weird thermal paste or can you just use normal paste?

Is there a way to reattach the IHS in case you need to send it in for warranty repair?
I think your warranty is kind of fucked if you do this.

tSg8BFu.gif

so whats the consensus, stay away from Haswell? or make sure you get liquid cooled?
From a gaming standpoint it looks like ~$60 more for the same overclocked performance at the end of the day.

You get an alive socket and standard features that all Ivy Boards filled in already due to aftermarket. That's about it. I'm still waiting to decide.
 
I think your warranty is kind of fucked if you do this.

tSg8BFu.gif


From a gaming standpoint it looks like ~$60 more for the same overclocked performance at the end of the day.

You get an alive socket and standard features that all Ivy Boards filled in already due to aftermarket. That's about it. I'm still waiting to decide.

I still am amazed at how easy that looks compared to the videos of cutting it off.
 

Mad Max

Member
Got the 4670K and a gigabyte Z87xUD4H in yesterday. Had to drain my entire loop to swap the mounting and jet plate of the supremacy, so that + getting the air out afterwards took me while. Still I managed to do a quick OC and get the CPU at a stable 4.7GHz using mostly default settings (which set the vcore to 1.35V). Under OCCT linpack this brings the CPU temp to about 75°C (with all fans operating at 7V), so that's quite high but somewhat acceptable.

Still it's quite appearent that the TIM they used is trash. There is barely any heat coming from the top rad, and by looking at the power consumption you can see that the heat production of an OCed haswell is much smaller than an OCed 7950, which stays below 40°C during furmark in my loop.
 

kharma45

Member
I was staring at the Basic and Standard Builds and thinking about the low end i3's vs FX chips.
Haswell has a ton of downsides, but it still doesn't change Ivy vs AMD. You are free to dispute this however!

From a purely gaming perspective for the 3220 vs the FX 6300/6350 I agree that the Ivy Bridge chip is the better choice. However, for other tasks they are fairly closely matched for a lot of single threaded stuff and the FX pulls away nicely when all its threads are used going by Anandbench http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/699?vs=677 I would imagine the gap between the 6350 and the 3220 would be even smaller again with it being clocked 0.4GHz more.

Even with regards to gaming it's only Starcraft II where the FX 6350 falls short, and whilst frame latencies aren't socket 1155/50 standard it's on a par with 1156 mostly which is according to Tech Report perfectly good.


And there is the option for overclocking too with the FX chips should you have a good enough board to handle it, and whilst the 3220 does provide a good upgrade patch if AMD hit their 30% IPC improvements with Steamroller the AM3+ platform also offers a good upgrade path.

One last thing too, it'd be worth keeping an eye on this CPU, the AMD Athlon 750K too http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113328

It's rather overpriced in the USA at the minute (here in the UK it's at Pentium G2020 levels or so) but it could well end up being a very good CPU for the budget build, and even maybe the standard too as even at $85 it's still not terribly priced. It's just the AMD A10 5800K sans the iGPU, and the CPU side of that APU is i3 3220 levels in most stuff so I feel it does warrant some consideration at that price. Plus again there is overclocking potential with it.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Got the 4670K and a gigabyte Z87xUD4H in yesterday. Had to drain my entire loop to swap the mounting and jet plate of the supremacy, so that + getting the air out afterwards took me while. Still I managed to do a quick OC and get the CPU at a stable 4.7GHz using mostly default settings (which set the vcore to 1.35V). Under OCCT linpack this brings the CPU temp to about 75°C (with all fans operating at 7V), so that's quite high but somewhat acceptable.

Still it's quite appearent that the TIM they used is trash. There is barely any heat coming from the top rad, and by looking at the power consumption you can see that the heat production of an OCed haswell is much smaller than an OCed 7950, which stays below 40°C during furmark in my loop.
It's not the TIM. It's the fact that the ~0.08mm gap that the TIM has to fill is too big that fucks up the temps.
Then because the chip is running at 85C instead of 65C it's using 10% more power as well, so it's just a trainwreck.

Honestly your chip seems amazing if it's running that cool.

fcgr2aB.png
 
More into eye candy = IPS panel.
More into responsiveness = 120hz/144hz panel

Man, I did a shit ton of research on monitors because I can't stand the quality of them since I got back into PC gaming. Going from my SONY and Panny display in my crib, it hurts gaming on a TN display, can't do it no more. So, it looks like I'm getting this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A6WZW6E/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Solid for gaming and everything else.
 
Will just say to not run over 1.25V load on your overclock as the Extreme 4 under reports CPU Volts.
I was wondering, could this be fixed with a BIOS update? (Assuming that ASRock will release an update.)


Also, has anyone here try out the ASRock Extreme Tuner for overclocking before? Is the software safe/good?
 

Horse Detective

Why the long case?
Great speakers, but I suggest you give them a listen if you can. If that the size you want and style, go for it. I like the sound of them to be honest. They sound even better with a amp. Are these for a desktop or laptop?

The desktop I am building. I like the price point, and the minimalist look is amazing.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
About to purchase my first rig, how is it?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($279.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z87 Extreme4 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($103.50 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($64.98 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card ($379.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($88.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus BW-14D1XT Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($84.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $1327.87
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-05 00:38 EDT-0400)

http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx

If you haven't ordered yet, you can get that 4770k/Asrock bundle for 399.99 at Microcenter. Don't order the mobo from Newegg.
 

Candeez

Member
Man, I did a shit ton of research on monitors because I can't stand the quality of them since I got back into PC gaming. Going from my SONY and Panny display in my crib, it hurts gaming on a TN display, can't do it no more. So, it looks like I'm getting this.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A6WZW6E/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Solid for gaming and everything else.

After a week of research I was about to pull the trigger on one of the Korean ips panels until I saw the difference in price between a perfect-pixel panel and the Dell u2713hm:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pixel-Perfe...4151?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item4d033bfa57 - $543

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009H0XQQY/?tag=neogaf0e-20 - $571

Dell gets the win for warranty, higher quality panel, more inputs, speaker out, and USB 3.0 hub for not much more.

Anand's review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6308/dell-u2713hm-unbeatable-performance-out-of-the-box
 
Question for those smarter than I in this.

My current CPU is: i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66

I've been debating building a new computer. Going to Ivy or Haswell, will I see a huge improvement?

I just went from Lynnfield to Haswell and I love it. Of course I never did any before/after benchmarking or anything, and I upgraded my SSD, and I'm on a fresh install - so those all might be factors - but my computer is a lot faster now. I think I remember Anandtech stating that for those upgrading from older chips, a Haswell can bring about a 30-40% increase.


I have my 4670K at 4.0 on passive cooling and my temps barely break 50C under load.
 
After a week of research I was about to pull the trigger on one of the Korean ips panels until I saw the difference in price between a perfect-pixel panel and the Dell u2713hm:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pixel-Perfe...4151?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item4d033bfa57 - $543

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009H0XQQY/?tag=neogaf0e-20 - $571

Dell gets the win for warranty, higher quality panel, more inputs, speaker out, and USB 3.0 hub for not much more.

Anand's review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6308/dell-u2713hm-unbeatable-performance-out-of-the-box

Yeah, same conclusion I came too as well. I'm big into IQ.
 

Mad Max

Member
It's not the TIM. It's the fact that the ~0.08mm gap that the TIM has to fill is too big that fucks up the temps.
Then because the chip is running at 85C instead of 65C it's using 10% more power as well, so it's just a trainwreck.

Honestly your chip seems amazing if it's running that cool.

fcgr2aB.png


Damn. That graph actually manages to make my temps look good.

But the big gap between the die and the HS explains the temps I guess, even the worst TIM I've used seems better than this. Maybe the reason my chip runs a bit cooler is because I always tighten the mounting screws on the block until they won't go any further (without using tools), that might make the gap a bit smaller or something along those lines. Still I'm probably going to delid this cpu in a while if EK releases one of those direct to die mounting kits.
 
Would you be prepared to drop the DVD drive to get a better CPU like the Athlon 750K?

Sorry if I didn't reply earlier but here it was getting quite late and today I had university lessons.

Tough question to answer, anyway. The dvd drive would save me about 20 euros. I guess I could spare the same amount of money by choosing 4 gb of 1333 ram instead of 8 gb of corsair vengeance.

Assuming I was ready to do so, what benefits should I expect from upgrading to the 750k (wouldn't a phenom 965 be a better choice?).

Thank you for your help, it's my first rig and I need some advice :)
 

Willectro

Banned
4770k with H100i seems to idle around 28-30°C, which seems pretty decent, right?

I still am waiting for the 770 to be delivered, hopefully sometime today.
 

Baleoce

Member
Is there any website I can go to to view each GPUs average power consumption at factory settings? (I know it'll be based on it's current load, but even just a site that gives ballpark averages for each GPU would be useful)
 

kharma45

Member
Sorry if I didn't reply earlier but here it was getting quite late and today I had university lessons.

Tough question to answer, anyway. The dvd drive would save me about 20 euros. I guess I could spare the same amount of money by choosing 4 gb of 1333 ram instead of 8 gb of corsair vengeance.

Assuming I was ready to do so, what benefits should I expect from upgrading to the 750k (wouldn't a phenom 965 be a better choice?).

Thank you for your help, it's my first rig and I need some advice :)

Oh yeah I had forgotten all about the 965. You could then upgrade to Steamroller from there on the AM3+ socket, probably a better choice.
 

kennah

Member
Not in the UK you can't. You guys have it real good price wise in comparison! And if you mean the regular 840, that drive is pretty lousy in comparison to the pro.

The 250 is fine and if you aren't doing high end work most would never notice the difference. I'm planning on picking up a pair of the non pro 250s for cheap for my builds.
 

HoosTrax

Member
As far as I can see, no one has messed up their CPU so far using the vice method unlike the razor blade method so I'm not too worried. Also, do you actually need that weird thermal paste or can you just use normal paste?

Is there a way to reattach the IHS in case you need to send it in for warranty repair?
If you fuck up your CPU delidding (either directly or indirectly), you better not be sending it in for RMA...

Why does this bother me? Because it's the kind of thing people abuse and may have contributed to BFG going out of business, based on various anecdotes I heard from a guy who took a job there not long before they went under. RMA is for defects on the part of the manufacturer, not for things caused by people doing things not covered by warranty. Test the CPU before you delid if you're concerned about defects.
 

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
"What's that noise?"

5 minutes later and, yup, HDD crapped out.

What's a good replacement? It'd be entirely a Steam drive, I'm leaning towards WD green for the low noise.
 
If you fuck up your CPU delidding (either directly or indirectly), you better not be sending it in for RMA...

Why does this bother me? Because it's the kind of thing people abuse and may have contributed to BFG going out of business, based on various anecdotes I heard from a guy who took a job there not long before they went under. RMA is for defects on the part of the manufacturer, not for things caused by people doing things not covered by warranty. Test the CPU before you delid if you're concerned about defects.
Lol, I meant if it breaks down the line say months or years after delidding it.
 

HoosTrax

Member
Lol, I meant if it breaks down the line say months or years after delidding it.
You voided the warranty as soon as you delidded it, so it's moot.

"What's that noise?"

5 minutes later and, yup, HDD crapped out.

What's a good replacement? It'd be entirely a Steam drive, I'm leaning towards WD green for the low noise.
Caviar Black if you're not going to be using SteamMover (or Steam's built-in "install where you want" feature) with an SSD. Caviar Green is ok otherwise.
 

knitoe

Member
"What's that noise?"

5 minutes later and, yup, HDD crapped out.

What's a good replacement? It'd be entirely a Steam drive, I'm leaning towards WD green for the low noise.

I barely use my WD Green (storage), but still died. Going by user reviews, their quality seems to be very shitty. I would not recommend anyone getting one, even for cheap.
 

Blizzard

Banned
You voided the warranty as soon as you delidded it, so it's moot.


Caviar Black if you're not going to be using SteamMover (or Steam's built-in "install where you want" feature) with an SSD. Caviar Green is ok otherwise.
Are those still reliable though? The last few months of WD hard drives seem to have a horrible failure review rate, and I felt like some of the other drives were even reviewed slightly better than the Caviar Black drives in terms of being DOA or dying within a month or two.

I sure do love ordering things online, but some of the boxes I receive are banged up as fuck.
What vendor and shipping company if you don't mind me asking?
 

Horse Detective

Why the long case?
Are those still reliable though? The last few months of WD hard drives seem to have a horrible failure review rate, and I felt like some of the other drives were even reviewed slightly better than the Caviar Black drives in terms of being DOA or dying within a month or two.


What vendor and shipping company if you don't mind me asking?

USPS
 

HoosTrax

Member
Are those still reliable though? The last few months of WD hard drives seem to have a horrible failure review rate, and I felt like some of the other drives were even reviewed slightly better than the Caviar Black drives in terms of being DOA or dying within a month or two.
No idea about the latest batch since I bought my Caviar Black last year.
 

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
So WD Black's the best bet? I hear they make a fair bit of noise and HDD rattle irritates me. Anyone have experience with them?
 

Smash88

Banned
Looks like I lost the silicon lottery on my i7 4770k.

Tried 1.2 @ 4.6. Failed to boot at Windows 8 Loading Screen.

Tried 1.2 @ 4.5. Fails while loading into Windows 8.

Tried 1.225 and 1.250 @ 4.5. Instability, crashes once I reach desktop.

Tried 1.275 (which I am at now) @ 4.5. I can load into windows, I will be testing Prime95.

All I know is I didn't get a good one. :(

My CPU is idling @ 38C now versus the 31-32C when at default.
 

HoosTrax

Member
So WD Black's the best bet? I hear they make a fair bit of noise and HDD rattle irritates me. Anyone have experience with them?
Seems pretty unremarkable/unnoticeable to me. I think this is more of a function of your case though. I have sound mat on both side panels and rubber HDD mounts.

The other thing I would point out is that Blacks have one of the best warranties (5 years). Better than most other manufacturers and better than the one WD offers for their non-Black HDDs (2 years I think).
 

Blackthorn

"hello?" "this is vagina"
Seems pretty unremarkable/unnoticeable to me. I think this is more of a function of your case though. I have sound mat on both side panels and rubber HDD mounts.

The other thing I would point out is that Blacks have one of the best warranties (5 years). Better than most other manufacturers and better than the one WD offers for their non-Black HDDs (2 years I think).
Thanks, I'll invest in some dampening and get the Black, that warranty is irresistible.
 

mkenyon

Banned
MKENYON PLS
Well, judging by my three games of Dota and my post rate as of late, I should be dumping my monitors for IPS. :p
Why is everyone getting the GD45 vs the 65? I got the 65.
What the extra money gets you is 12 vs. 8 phase power, and two extra SATA ports. So basically no difference at all.
Really interesting read. Thanks for linking that.
NP!

There's been some more advancements with it lately too. Check out the FCAT stuff on TechReport and PCPer.
 

Smash88

Banned
I tried to raise the strap and BCLK to 125mhz to bypass, and maybe create a better OC. Nope, completely fucked my system, had to move the CMOS over and back.

I don't know what to do now? Should I try to return the 4770k for another one stating I'm having BSOD issues and heat issues?

Because clearly this chip is not great for OCing.
 

glow

Banned
I'm going to be building my first gaming PC. I'll have an i7-3770K and GTX 770, might go SLI in the future, what wattage PSU should I get? Will 750W cover it?
 

Ezalc

Member
690 is technically faster in games that support it.
I'd go with a single Titan instead of dealing with SLi headaches.

I'll have the OP updated this week hopefully. You'd be looking at a 2011 system.

What's SLi? And what would be a 2013 system?
 

zakislam

Member
Hey guys - I have a Rampage IV Extreme mobo.

I have two 128 GB SSD's.

I have two 240 GB SSDs.

The two 128 GB SSD's are detected in the RAID configuration, but it doesn't pick up the 240 GB SSDs.

The BIOS picks up all of the SSDs including the two 240 GB ones.

Any idea why the RAID setup menu doesn't detect the two 240 GB ones?
 

Smash88

Banned
What's GAFs consensus on Intel's Performance Tuning Protection Plan?

Should I fork over the $25 to make sure my 4770k doesn't shit the bed while I try to OC?

You're going about it the wrong way.

You need to create a baseline and see what your chip does at stock frequency, find the minimum voltage required there. Do steppings of 200mhz at a time, finding what's necessary.

Starting from where you would like to be and working back is more or less the lazy method that worked fine with chips like Sandy, because you could pour the volts on without worrying about the heatwall.

Also keep in mind your BCLK strap affects memory, which might be the culprit behind failing to boot there.

You could always delid as well.

Will do.

I will start at 4GHZ @ 1.2vcore and go from there.

It's not even a heat issue. It just won't let me boot into windows I immediately get a BSOD if I try 4.6 or 4.5 at any voltage. It's extremely unstable.
 
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