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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.

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A

AcridMeat

Banned
SneakyStephan said:
4770 and 4770k are the same cpu, only difference is one arbitrarily has overclocking disabled, and the other one costs more.

They all get hot because there is really poor heat transfer from the die (surface of the cpu chip) to the heat spreader (the metal plate that your heatsink from your cooler connects to) , intel used bad thermal paste to connect them...
I believe you can make it consumer less power (and thereby run a bit cooler) by disabling hyper threading, but if you do that you might as well just buy a 4670k (that one is the same cpu but without hyperthreading enabled)

All the haswell cpus (the 4000 series i5 and i7 like the i7 4770k) get needlessly hot, despite consuming less power than sandy bridge (the 2000 series like the i5 2500k) did in 2011. Because of the bad thermal paste.

Some people delid them (remove the heatspreader manually using a hammer or a razor blade, then remove the bad paste and reapply their own) so that the cooling will work properly and efficiently and they can run at lower (quieter) fan speeds while getting lower temperatures.

Ivy bridge had this same issue, but intel don't care because amd doesn't have a cpu in this performance bracket, no competition = fuck you stupid consumer tardsheep, you'll buy it anyhow.


Your 4770k won't break or anything, it'll just run hotter and your fanspeed will be a lot higher (and noisier) because of it.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for the breakdown, incredibly helpful in making me understand. I don't really care about the loud fan speeds, my antec 300 has a beat up cage for the top fan and it gets all sorts of crazy loud sometimes. Will definitely get the 4770k then.

my e8400 in this machine had an absolute garbage heatsink fan and it ran around 90c for about two years before I finally got a 212 for it and its been insanely cool (25-30c) since.
 
kittoo

kittoo

Cretinously credulous
SneakyStephan said:
4770 and 4770k are the same cpu, only difference is one arbitrarily has overclocking disabled, and the other one costs more.

They all get hot because there is really poor heat transfer from the die (surface of the cpu chip) to the heat spreader (the metal plate that your heatsink from your cooler connects to) , intel used bad thermal paste to connect them...
I believe you can make it consumer less power (and thereby run a bit cooler) by disabling hyper threading, but if you do that you might as well just buy a 4670k (that one is the same cpu but without hyperthreading enabled)

All the haswell cpus (the 4000 series i5 and i7 like the i7 4770k) get needlessly hot, despite consuming less power than sandy bridge (the 2000 series like the i5 2500k) did in 2011. Because of the bad thermal paste.

Some people delid them (remove the heatspreader manually using a hammer or a razor blade, then remove the bad paste and reapply their own) so that the cooling will work properly and efficiently and they can run at lower (quieter) fan speeds while getting lower temperatures.

Ivy bridge had this same issue, but intel don't care because amd doesn't have a cpu in this performance bracket, no competition = fuck you stupid consumer tardsheep, you'll buy it anyhow.


Your 4770k won't break or anything, it'll just run hotter and your fanspeed will be a lot higher (and noisier) because of it.
Click to expand...

At stock settings and cooler, what are the idle temps for 4770k?
 
S

slapnuts

Junior Member
JediMasterMatt said:
Well, the new PC is up and running and I'm now able to formalize my thoughts:

WHAT THE FUCK WAS INTEL THINKING WITH THE TIM ON HASWELL!

My 4770k was hitting 100c on small FFTs on stock settings!!

Needless to say, I had to delid the damn thing.

Immediate drop of over 25c.... at 4.5ghz!

Worst design choice ever Intel. Go back to solder please.
Click to expand...

To be quite honest..that don't even sound right...ya maybe you just had a bad spread of tim on there. My 3770k on air cooling can get to 4.8ghz stable after 24 hour various stress testing...currently at 4.4ghz though..i'll bump it up later when i need to do so. Right now 4.4ghz or around that clock is fine..anything over 4.8ghz is really no gain for gaming. At 4.4ghz i never go over 65c on heavy load and at 4.8ghz i get around 80c give or take a few on heavy load.

Edit: This cpu that is in my htpc is not delidded although i do have another 3770k that is delidded and it is rock solid at 5.0ghz.
 
B

Brianimaniac

Banned
What is the cheapest pre-built PC I can buy to hook up to my TV that isn't a piece of junk that will break in a year? The only thing I will be using it for is old games from GOG and light web browsing, so literally anything will work.
 
M

MBison

Member
I'm looking to get a gaming desktop. I don't want to build even though I know its cheaper. I'm just not patient or knowledgeable enough.

I'm hoping someone with knowledge will help. Pm me if it's easier.

Basically what brand should I go with? Alienware? Is there better? More bang for buck?

Are there new processors I should wait on?

I'd say my budget is approx $2k. I don't need a monitor. I just want the best bang for buck able to run everything max (1080p) for a few years or more.

Please help via pm :)
 
S

slapnuts

Junior Member
Onyx GhoZt said:
Been thinking about upgrading my 3570k to a 4770k. Any added benefit if I make the upgrade?
Click to expand...

I tell you what man...having the extra threads really makes me feel much more comfortable as far as future next gen games. Lately i've already noticed some upcoming next gen games benefiting from AMD's extra cores and Intel's extra threads with their i7.

The thing is...you already have a 3570k which is a powerful chip as it stands..the only thing missing is those extra threads. So i am not sure if it's worth the extra 100 dollars...for me though...i it was a no brainer because i do some video editing here and there along with web design..and the fact that next gen consoles are all utilizing 8 cores..it was a easy selection for me so i went with a 3770k.....i just feel much MUCH better having the extra threads for gaming.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
If anyone happens to remember me complaining about my bizarre monitor problem with a GTX 770 where the monitor would go black for a second or two, then come back, games or otherwise, I was copying some files from an old desktop today with the same monitor and it happened there too. It seems very likely that it is my 5+ year old monitor finally dying.

I just recently ordered this one (I think): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236117

I had intended to use it as a dualscreen setup with another HDMI source, but it looks like I should replace my current primary as well. =P

I'm just glad the mystery seems to be solved at last. I tried different drivers and could never figure anything out.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
GAF, if I install more RAM but from a different vendor and with different clock speed will it work OK? I need more RAM asap.
 
T

Thorgal

Member
schennmu said:
When I bought my 680 last year I switched my 530W PSU to a 750 for some wiggle room in the future. Nvidia recommends 600W for the 770 so you are on the low end but it should be ok.

CPU wise you could run into some bottlenecks but it depends on the game of course.
Click to expand...

So should i upgrade to a better PSU ( 650 w . 750 w) to be on the safe side ?
 
L

LordAlu

Member
subversus said:
GAF, if I install more RAM but from a different vendor and with different clock speed will it work OK? I need more RAM asap.
Click to expand...
It will work - all the RAM will clock itself to the lowest speed though. So if you have 1866MHz memory in there and you put some 1333MHz in then they will all run at 1333MHz.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
SneakyStephan said:
Also isn't gtx 670 to 770 a tiny upgrade, like 15 percent?
Click to expand...

If that. It's a rubbish performance upgrade. Mostly got it for the 4GB VRAM, which I won't ever use. Honk honk.

Sanctuary said:
That's really what I wanted to do too. I was actually going to wait to do a full system build whenever they ended up announcing the new cards, but reading this thread and then the announcement of the Ti, it's like fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

Plus, there's a bunch of games that I actually want to play at higher settings now as opposed to March, April, May or whatever.
Click to expand...

Yeaaah, that's kind of how I looked at it. What I don't know is when the 800 series will be announced, nor when it will drop. Moreover, I won't know my financial situation until then. My MBO/CPU are going to start showing their age sooner rather than later, especially as more next gen games are optimised for multiple cores. Ergo, I'm not going to want just an 800 series, but an entire overhaul. And that will cost me. The longer I can hold out, the better the then investment will be.

If I can hold my ground longer with a 770 4GB than a 670 2GB I'll be happy.
 
D

dr. apocalipsis

Banned
SneakyStephan said:
They all get hot because there is really poor heat transfer from the die (surface of the cpu chip) to the heat spreader (the metal plate that your heatsink from your cooler connects to) , intel used bad thermal paste to connect them...

All the haswell cpus (the 4000 series i5 and i7 like the i7 4770k) get needlessly hot, despite consuming less power than sandy bridge (the 2000 series like the i5 2500k) did in 2011. Because of the bad thermal paste.
Click to expand...

In fact, the thermal paste Intel use is actually good. The problem is the lack of pressure of the HIS. When people delid the CPU, they usually remove the black gluish stuff, so HIS and cooler are more pressed onto DIE.

Intel always did this dirty trick to differentiate ranges. They don't consider 1150 socket hi end, so they don't solder the HIS.
 
D

Durante

Member
A small correction to the previous TIM discussion: it's not that the interface material chosen by Intel is bad, it's that the gap between it and the heat spreader is generally too large. Someone did an in-depth analysis of that (by reproducing the original gap with his own TIM and actually measuring worse temperatures than with the original).
 
S

scojitsu

Member
Hey PC GAF upgrading my pc in the next few weeks.
So far I'm sold on a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD and the Intel i7 3770k.

Still undecided on the GPU which is where I need some advice,
Upgrading from a 560ti and playing at 1080p. Budget is £300 give or take.

Any ideas?
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
scojitsu said:
Hey PC GAF upgrading my pc in the next few weeks.
So far I'm sold on a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD and the Intel i7 3770k.

Still undecided on the GPU which is where I need some advice,
Upgrading from a 560ti and playing at 1080p. Budget is £300 give or take.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I know Nvidia is a lot in the news now with all their new announcements, and I love that extra stuff and they have some extra features, but the pricing right now is way too expensive to their AMD counterparts so I would say the 280X, or the 7970 Ghz edition if you can find that for way cheaper.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
scojitsu said:
Hey PC GAF upgrading my pc in the next few weeks.
So far I'm sold on a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD and the Intel i7 3770k.

Still undecided on the GPU which is where I need some advice,
Upgrading from a 560ti and playing at 1080p. Budget is £300 give or take.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

If AMD 280x or 7970 if Nvidia gtx 770.
 
D

Dawg

Member
Can I ask what you're gonna do with that pc? If it's a gaming pc, get a i5-4670K instead. But if you also do video-editing and stuff, go ahead and take the 3770K

wait: that's the ivy bridge i7, why do you want that one? Because of the TIM discussion above and all?
 
D

Durante

Member
Prophet Steve said:
I know Nvidia is a lot in the news now with all their new announcements, and I love that extra stuff and they have some extra features, but the pricing right now is way too expensive to their AMD counterparts so I would say the 280X, or the 7970 Ghz edition if you can find that for way cheaper.
Click to expand...
I generally agree (unless you really want some NV-exclusive feature), except I'd say that if yo ucan get a 7970GHz cheaper than a 280 at all it's a better deal. Doesn't have to be much since they are basically the same card.

Dawg said:
Can I ask what you're gonna do with that pc? If it's a gaming pc, get a i5-4670K instead. But if you also do video-editing and stuff, go ahead and take the 3770K
Click to expand...
Between those 2 I'd go with the i7 3770k for gaming. More threads for next-gen ports probably don't hurt, and a bit better OC headroom.
 
K

kharma45

Member
scojitsu said:
Hey PC GAF upgrading my pc in the next few weeks.
So far I'm sold on a 250GB Samsung 840 SSD and the Intel i7 3770k.

Still undecided on the GPU which is where I need some advice,
Upgrading from a 560ti and playing at 1080p. Budget is £300 give or take.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

7970 at £240 or so would be what I'd grab http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-...ion-5500mhz-gddr5-28nm-gpu-1000mhz-2048-cores or the Sapphire Toxic 280X if they add the free games to it when you come to buy http://www.scan.co.uk/products/3gb-...u-1100mhz-boost-1150mhz-2048-streams-dvi-hdmi

MSI has a 280X at £230 but no free games http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-225-MS

If you need something like CUDA and therefore Nvidia you can get an MSI 680 PE for £240 http://www.scan.co.uk/products/2gb-...8mhz-gddr5-gpu-1019mhz-boost-1084mhz-cores-15
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
Durante said:
I generally agree (unless you really want some NV-exclusive feature), except I'd say that if yo ucan get a 7970GHz cheaper than a 280 at all it's a better deal. Doesn't have to be much since they are basically the same card.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can agree, I only wasn't sure whether AMD would lock some features in only for the new cards.

You might also want to look at the Never Settle bundles, I am not sure if they still come with the 7970 and also do not know if you will get one later if you buy a 280x now.
 
S

scojitsu

Member
Dawg said:
Can I ask what you're gonna do with that pc? If it's a gaming pc, get a i5-4670K instead. But if you also do video-editing and stuff, go ahead and take the 3770K

wait: that's the ivy bridge i7, why do you want that one? Because of the TIM discussion above and all?
Click to expand...

My mobo has a 1155 socket. Is the 4670k compatible?
PC is used mainly for gaming (25 man raiding in WoW), Dolphin Emulator, browsing GAF. Is the 3770k overkill?
 
D

Dawg

Member
Durante said:
Between those 2 I'd go with the i7 3770k for gaming. More threads for next-gen ports probably don't hurt, and a bit better OC headroom.
Click to expand...

I guess you have a point. Still, I prefer holding on the i5 models for gaming because I'd like see how much impact the next-gen ports will actually have. Intel will probably adjust their cpu's the coming years then, no? Instead of the minor performance upgrades we get now.

That, and I prefer playing "next gen ports" on consoles instead of pc. I'll stick with pc exclusives and MMO's on pc :p
 
D

Dawg

Member
If you mainly play WoW (like me), the i5-3570K would be enough of an upgrade, I'd say. OC that thing and you'll have plenty of fps in 25 man raids.

It's also $100 cheaper than the 3770K.

You could get the 3770K because it's "futureproof" but honestly, it's already "one generation behind". I think getting a 3570K for now would be enough, you can still upgrade (if it's really needed) in the next few years. Who knows what will happen.
 
G

Garteal

Member
scojitsu said:
My mobo has a 1155 socket. Is the 4670k compatible?
PC is used mainly for gaming (25 man raiding in WoW), Dolphin Emulator, browsing GAF. Is the 3770k overkill?
Click to expand...
If you're emulating a lot (Dolphin, PCSX2, etc), you'll want to get a 4670K. It's approximately 22% faster than a 3570K at the same clocks for Dolphin. Not sure about the exact performance increase in PCSX2 though.
 
D

Dawg

Member
Garteal said:
If you're emulating a lot (Dolphin, PCSX2, etc), you'll want to get a 4670K. It's approximately 22% faster than a 3570K at the same clocks for Dolphin. Not sure about the exact performance increase in PCSX2 though.
Click to expand...

He'd have to buy a new motherboard in that case, though :p
 
G

Garteal

Member
Dawg said:
He'd have to buy a new motherboard in that case, though :p
Click to expand...
Indeed. It depends on him I guess.

If he wants to keep the motherboard, then the 3570K is a good choice for what he's doing with it, especially if overclocked nicely. There's no need for a 3770K.
 
S

scojitsu

Member
Seriously considering the 3570K now.
My only concern is will it show a tangible performance increase over my i5 2400?

I read somewhere there's not much difference between the 2500k and the 3570k.
 
D

Durante

Member
scojitsu said:
Seriously considering the 3570K now.
My only concern is will it show a tangible performance increase over my i5 2400?

I read somewhere there's not much difference between the 2500k and the 3570k.
Click to expand...
Unless you want to overclock you shouldn't upgrade your CPU at all. If you do OC you can achieve a significant perf. boost over your current setup woth any K series CPU.
 
D

Dawg

Member
scojitsu said:
Seriously considering the 3570K now.
My only concern is will it show a tangible performance increase over my i5 2400?

I read somewhere there's not much difference between the 2500k and the 3570k.
Click to expand...

As others have said, the base performance increase won't be that big.

The biggest change is being able to overclock and you should make use of it. Like you said, you want more fps when playing 25 man raids in WoW, right?

Overclocking your CPU is the best way to increase the fps in there. Even a high-end GPU will encounter framedrops in big raids. A 4,2 Ghz (or higher) will help a lot.
 
Parapraxis

Parapraxis

Member
Hey guys, I am basically putting together a "Great - Best Value (Haswell - LGA1150)" Build and was considering this case, would it be okay?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Rosewill-R53...=US_Computer_Cases&hash=item27d955e91f&_uhb=1

Comes with a 500W PSU built in, so maybe I save a few bucks there.

Here's the other components I am considering right now

HCkUwpQ.jpg
 
H

HariKari

Member
Parapraxis said:
Is the case itself any good? I can always get a different PSU and pop that one in an older PC.
Click to expand...

Most sub $100 cases aren't meant to last. I mean, what do you consider 'good'? Something you'd entrust a nice build to? The cheap cases get the job done but I'd really prefer something higher quality from Corsair or Coolermaster. A good one you can cannibalize on all future builds, just like a great PSU. Don't skimp.

Anyone have any experience with the FX-8350? Thinking about moving from an i7 920 (five years old now) as a stopgap till Skylake/Broadwell
 
K

kennah

Member
HariKari said:
Most sub $100 cases aren't meant to last. I mean, what do you consider 'good'? Something you'd entrust a nice build to? The cheap cases get the job done but I'd really prefer something higher quality from Corsair or Coolermaster. A good one you can cannibalize on all future builds, just like a great PSU. Don't skimp.

Anyone have any experience with the FX-8350? Thinking about moving from an i7 920 (five years old now) as a stopgap till Skylake/Broadwell
Click to expand...
An overclocked i7 920 is still quite viable. I'd wait.
 
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