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[Sanctuary]

No, that's an excellent point. It's just that all I feel like I have to go on are these reviews. Very few other sites a) have the editorial reputation that Anandtech does, or b) put as much effort into accurately measuring the important stats as they do. SilentPCReview is great and all, but their web design's stuck in the dark ages and their benchmark layouts practically give me a headache whenever I try to decipher them...

What would you recommend?

Check my edit

That's the case I have on the way.

Also, Bit-tech.net, Xbitlabs.com, Hexus.net, Hardwarecanucks.com and of course Hardocp.com are all excellent resources. In fact, they all have a very good reputation, but only Hardocp gives you a real picture when it comes to graphics cards and performance and how it affects gameplay, instead of simply using generic max/avg FPS. They started the min playable framerate/highest IQ trend that most sites still have not bothered to adopt.

 

[adg1034]

Check my edit

That's the case I have on the way.

Nice! But I wish- I'm sticking with my regular ATX motherboard for now. Mid tower or above for me...

And it's true, I haven't checked Xbitlabs in a while. I'm well versed in the old-school tech review sites, but I'll give 'em another look tomorrow.

 

[Sanctuary]

Nice! But I wish- I'm sticking with my regular ATX motherboard for now. Mid tower or above for me...

And it's true, I haven't checked Xbitlabs in a while. I'm well versed in the old-school tech review sites, but I'll give 'em another look tomorrow.

Hah. My bad. I thought you were getting more than just cooling upgrades.

 

[HariKari]

Do I need a full-tower case? Of course not, but they seem like the only way I can get decent performance in both acoustics and cooling.

Mid towers cram more into less space. I'm really not seeing how that helps acoustics. It would also have to be an incredibly loud machine for it to matter over headphones for me personally. If you have the space and money, always get a full tower. There's so much more room for activities.

 

[jbpaz]

UPS is delivering my parts a day early. I have class tomorrow and I'm scared someone will take them. Does UPS deliver in the evening when it involves plenty of boxes?

 

[AkIRA_22]

I don't think it is, but it's pretty much the only air cooler which is better (if only by 1 degree or so).

Then get that thing out of my face.

 

[Unknown One]

Jesus Christ. That's definitely not something you would want on a board that is vertical. The ridiculous weight on many of the modern heat sinks is one of the reasons I decided to go with a liquid cooler this time around. Back plates only do so much.

I don't think it's that heavy. It's about 2.7 pounds with the fan.

 

[EatChildren]

GTX 770 4GB arrived. As expected not a huge performance upgrade over the 670 2GB, for now, but there's still a small but noticeable framerate boost in the most GPU demanding games, like Crysis 3, which I consider the most GPU intensive game on the market.

OC core clock apparently boosts to 1189MHz with MSI Gaming App, but even with it off Afterburner is reporting core clock speeds peaking at 1200+MHz. Not that I matter, given it's more and stable. But yeah.

One thing I did notice, in Nvidia Inspector, is a change in the Interface listing. My 670 listed as "PCI-E 3.0x16 @ x16 2.0", but my 770 lists at "PCI-E 3.0x16 @ x16 1.1". I don't know why the new card says 1.1 and the older card 2.0, so hopefully that isn't an issue.

 

[Tallshortman]

LOL! Should have been more specific like Medium to high settings at 1280 X 1080-ish resolution and 40+ FPS. But we don't have the specs for PC-Fall yet so pointless to discuss



Ok thanks but Titanfall was probably a bad example. How about Watch dogs? What kind of performance I can expect since we know the requirements for it?

For a 760/7950? Should run watch dogs fine but may not to be able to max out 1080p/60fps. That game is also pretty unknown at this point since the recommended requirements they released are extremely vague.

 

[Sanctuary]

Not that I matter

Don't be so down on yourself. Not everyone has the ability to eat children.

 

[No Love]

GTX 770 4GB arrived. As expected not a huge performance upgrade over the 670 2GB, for now, but there's still a small but noticeable framerate boost in the most GPU demanding games, like Crysis 3, which I consider the most GPU intensive game on the market.

OC core clock apparently boosts to 1189MHz with MSI Gaming App, but even with it off Afterburner is reporting core clock speeds peaking at 1200+MHz. Not that I matter, given it's more and stable. But yeah.

One thing I did notice, in Nvidia Inspector, is a change in the Interface listing. My 670 listed as "PCI-E 3.0x16 @ x16 2.0", but my 770 lists at "PCI-E 3.0x16 @ x16 1.1". I don't know why the new card says 1.1 and the older card 2.0, so hopefully that isn't an issue.

The 2nd part that says @ x16 1.1 is only because of load. Start running Heaven, Furmark etc in a window and you will see it scale up to x16 3.0. Its just the PCI-E linkspeed for low power, low usage scenarios.

 

[LordAlu]

Nah price are a bit high.. if you compare it to the US. Great Build will cost u more over here.

so going by what is there in the op Biostar mb is not available here so instead of that which one should i go for?

Asrock, asus, gigabyte or MSI?? also cpu which one i was thinking of i5 but plz recommend

If you're going for Ivy Bridge you can get something like the Asus P8Z77-V LK, or if you go for Haswell the Gigabyte Z87-D3HP or MSI Z87-G45 Gaming.

Hey guys, I asked for some help with choosing a build a few weeks ago and I'm just getting around to ordering the parts now. This was the build that I was going for:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor (£167.99 @ Aria PC)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler (£74.00 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI Z87-G45 Gaming ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£109.99 @ Novatech)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£79.35 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 500GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£264.34 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (£77.70 @ Aria PC)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£71.94 @ Scan.co.uk)
Other: Asus DirectCU II TOP Radeon HD 7970 AMD Graphics Card - 3GB (£221.75)
Total: £1067.06
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-21 22:21 BST+0100)

The power supply is currently out of stock at Scan until November and the next best price seems to be an additional £20 at Amazon. Would anyone recommend any alternative power supplies for this build?

Thanks again in advance.

Nothing that's 80+ Gold. You could get:

• Corsair Enthusiast 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£76.38 @ Scan.co.uk)
• SeaSonic S12II 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£72.04 @ Amazon UK)
• XFX 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£73.48 @ CCL Computers)

Any of these would be good.

Can anyone recommend a good sound card for my Asus Rampage IV Extreme Motherboard? I am looking for 5.1 or 7.1.

Thanks!

This is a great 5.1 card for the money:
Asus Xonar DGX 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($28.98 @ Newegg)

Am I gonna be alright with a i7 4770k and a 7970 with nothing but the stock heatsink and fans if I don't overclock? (Fractal Design R4 that comes with 2 140mm fans.)

You'll be just fine

 

[LCGeek]

The 2nd part that says @ x16 1.1 is only because of load. Start running Heaven, Furmark etc in a window and you will see it scale up to x16 3.0. Its just the PCI-E linkspeed for low power, low usage scenarios.

Just want to add the gpu-z render test can bring out the proper value as well.

 

[Octacamo]

If you're going for Ivy Bridge you can get something like the Asus P8Z77-V LK, or if you go for Haswell the Gigabyte Z87-D3HP or MSI Z87-G45 Gaming.

Thanks LordAlu for replying

Ok i m going for haswell, so how is MSI Z87-G43 Gaming and Intel 3.4 GHz LGA1150 4670K i5 sounds to you? and thinking of going GTX760 that card will be good for next gen games in medium settings right?

 

[LordAlu]

Thanks LordAlu for replying

Ok i m going for haswell, so how is MSI Z87-G43 Gaming and Intel 3.4 GHz LGA1150 4670K i5 sounds to you? and thinking of going GTX760 that card will be good for next gen games in medium settings right?

Whilst the G43 is good the G45 would be better if you can get it - it shouldn't be that much more.

 

[Sanctuary]

This is a great 5.1 card for the money:
Asus Xonar DGX 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($28.98 @ Newegg)

That motherboard already supports 7.1 and a higher sampling rate (not that much uses above 48k though).

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Audio-Codec-Comparison-Table/520/2

That mother board is ALC898 (bottom of the chart), and the DGX is CMI8786 (next page, middle of the chart).

The only reason I can think of to actually buy a dedicated sound card for that board is if you have some higher impedence headphones, or want Dolby Headphone. Then of course, there's always simply not liking how it sounds, but you should probably check that out first before buying any cards. Although the DGX seems fairly good for the price.

 

[Octacamo]

Whilst the G43 is good the G45 would be better if you can get it - it shouldn't be that much more.

ok and what about the processor?

 

[LordAlu]

That motherboard already supports 7.1 and a higher sampling rate (not that much uses above 48k though).

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Audio-Codec-Comparison-Table/520/2

That mother board is ALC898 (bottom of the chart), and the DGX is CMI8786 (next page, middle of the chart).

The only reason I can think of to actually buy a dedicated sound card for that board is if you have some higher impedence headphones, or want Dolby Headphone. Then of course, there's always simply not liking how it sounds, but you should probably check that out first before buying any cards. Although the DGX seems fairly good for the price.

I didn't even look at the motherboard sound itself, good spot. There aren't many (cheap) sound cards that would improve on the on-board sound at least - the DGX is a great card for improving the average on-board sound but not particularly with that motherboard

ok and what about the processor?

4670k is great, no problems there. You can make do with the stock fan for now if necessary and buy something like a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO later for overclocking. GTX 760 is a great card too, you'll be fine at medium settings for a good while I'd think.

 

[Unknown One]

If you're going to get a 760 go for the Gigabyte card. Hands down the best 760 GTX if you're not a heavy overclocker. If you are than the MSI 760 GTX Hawk would be the best.

 

[Mogwai]

I've had enough of my janky Evo 212 fan unit and I'm looking to replace it with a NF-P12.

My question is whether I need the PWM version or not. The current Evo 212 fan runs at about 1500 rpm and I can see that the Noctua runs 1300 rpm max. I assume the new fan unit should be running at 100% all the time, so is there any point in paying more for PWM?

I know the cost difference is negligible, but I hope someone could educate me a bit

 

[Octacamo]

4670k is great, no problems there. You can make do with the stock fan for now if necessary and buy something like a Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO later for overclocking. GTX 760 is a great card too, you'll be fine at medium settings for a good while I'd think.

Thanks a lot for all your replies,

 

[iJudged]

Buying a laptop, specs...

17in
Intel Core i5 2nd gen (quad? ) running at 2.67ghz
6GB Ram
500gb HD
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850

How good is it for gaming, will it handle some of the newer games?

$400

 

[Addnan]

Buying a laptop, specs...

17in
Intel Core i5 2nd gen (quad? ) running at 2.67ghz
6GB Ram
500gb HD
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5850

How good is it for gaming, will it handle some of the newer games?

$400

Probably not great, but the first link in the OP is to gaming laptop thread. They can be much more helpful to you.

 

[Felix Lighter]

The price on 7970s just jumped up like $50 today, virtually across the board.

 

[chickdigger802]

Depends on whether or not you perfer ease of use +whateverthefuckexclusives over not as easy to use + a whole lot more options, on top of vastly superior performance/IQ. I'm personally just going to wait a year or two on the new systems so that they can iron out whatever kinks first gen always have, as well as there being enough exclusives to make it worthwhile. This is literally the first gen where I've not been enthusiastic about getting a system within the first year. But that's probably because I ended up playing most of the 360 games on my PC anyway until more exclusives came out much later. Only reason I even have a PS3 is because I was upgrading to my first HDTV and wanted a Blu-ray player, and Demon's Souls had just been released in the US. Hell, I use my PS3 more to watch movies/tv shows on than I use it for gaming.

it also seems like one of the first times that most of the big 3rd party stuff are also coming out on pc with pc as lead skew.

And hearing stuff like watchdogs and maybe ac4 being capped at 30fps and maybe even less than 1080p doesn't give me the urge to throw money at consoles.

i did get a 7870xt earlier this year though which is about equivalent to a 760 for barely anything after gift cards... not entirely sure if the $500+ cost of a 780 will be worth the performance difference.

 

[kennah]

760 to 780 is a huge jump. Also you should be able to get 100-150 for your 7870.

That said if you're happy with the performance now it can be better to wait. I have a 670 and would get a 780 if I could afford it. Hell of a card.

 

[chickdigger802]

Do people really buy used gpu's? For some reason that never came to mind

all my old gpu's are just lying around the house or stuck in old rigs (which is rare now that gpu's are too fat to fit in old rigs).

 

[iJudged]

Probably not great, but the first link in the OP is to gaming laptop thread. They can be much more helpful to you.

Awesome thnx

 

[kharma45]

The price on 7970s just jumped up like $50 today, virtually across the board.

7950s did the same a few days ago, totally bizarre.

 

[coughlanio]

A bit of a challenge here.

I have a strict budget of €500 (including 1080p monitor) to build a PC. It should be able to handle modern games, FFXIV in particular. It needs to be ITX or mATX at the most.

I'd prefer an SSD over an HDD (I have a NAS), and my preferred retailers are Amazon, Scan UK and Overclockers UK in that order.

Keep in mind that's 500 Euro.

Thanks

 

[Addnan]

A bit of a challenge here.

I have a strict budget of €500 (including 1080p monitor) to build a PC. It should be able to handle modern games, FFXIV in particular.

I'd prefer an SSD over an HDD (I have a NAS), and my preferred retailers are Amazon, Scan UK and Overclockers UK in that order.

Keep in mind that's 500 Euro.

Thanks

OS?

 

[coughlanio]

OS?

I have an MSDN license, so already have that sorted.

And I'm a Linux user mostly.

 

[Garteal]

Almost ordered a R9 280X Vapor-X until I realized it required 2 8-pin connectors which I don't have. The next best option was the Gigabyte WindForce 280X, but I'll also have to get a 8-pin ATX 12V extension cable, otherwise I can't connect my CPU power cable.
The cable is not in stock and will take 2-3 days to ship and will also add shipping costs if I add it to the basket.

Guess I'll have to wait some more then.

 

[bro1]

Almost ordered a R9 280X Vapor-X until I realized it required 2 8-pin connectors which I don't have. The next best option was the Gigabyte WindForce 280X, but I'll also have to get a 8-pin ATX 12V extension cable, otherwise I can't connect my CPU power cable.
The cable is not in stock and will take 2-3 days to ship and will also add shipping costs if I add it to the basket.

Guess I'll have to wait some more then.

What PSU do you have?

 

[Mogwai]

Almost ordered a R9 280X Vapor-X until I realized it required 2 8-pin connectors which I don't have. The next best option was the Gigabyte WindForce 280X, but I'll also have to get a 8-pin ATX 12V extension cable, otherwise I can't connect my CPU power cable.
The cable is not in stock and will take 2-3 days to ship and will also add shipping costs if I add it to the basket.

Guess I'll have to wait some more then.

Which PSU are you using? Sounds a bit sketchy if it doesn't even support a couple of 8 pins PCI-Es

 

[kennah]

Do people really buy used gpu's? For some reason that never came to mind

all my old gpu's are just lying around the house or stuck in old rigs (which is rare now that gpu's are too fat to fit in old rigs).

Yep. Used gpus hold their value pretty well. Even a 280 can still fetch 40-60$.

What all do you have?

 

[Garteal]

What PSU do you have?

Which PSU are you using? Sounds a bit sketchy if it doesn't even support a couple of 8 pins PCI-Es

It's a OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W PSU. It comes with one 6-pin PCIE and one 8-pin PCIE which can also serve as a 6-pin PCIE connector.
I could probably get another 8-pin connector, but the 280X reference design has one 6-pin and one 8-pin connector. The Sapphire is just modified.

 

[Mogwai]

It's a OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W PSU. It comes with one 6-pin PCIE and one 8-pin PCIE which can also serve as a 6-pin PCIE connector.
I could probably get another 8-pin connector, but the 280X reference design has one 6-pin and one 8-pin connector. The Sapphire is just modified.

I just checked an unboxing of a Sapphire Vapor X R9 280X, and it does look like there's included a molex to 8 pin adapter. Now I don't know that PSU, but if you have those two molex available you should be good to go with the Sapphire card.

 

[Addnan]

I have an MSDN license, so already have that sorted.

And I'm a Linux user mostly.

€500 with a monitor is really pushing anything decent. This will run games, but settings will need to be tame. MMOs are generally CPU heavy and so if there are a lot of people on screen you will probably see drop in performance.

MSI B75 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007PKDU4G/

i3 3220 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008F65MO0/

650 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0099AOAQC/

PSU http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009RMP14M/ (I hate this PSU, but since this a very budget build you can probably get away with it.)

RAM http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002LE8D2A/

Case http://www.scan.co.uk/products/frac...0-black-interior-black-micro-atx-case-w-o-psu or pick one your self.

Monitor, don't really know. very little budget to play with. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0097HYR24/

This works out to €483.

Edit: I missed the SSD. I give up . Don't know where else to make cuts.

 

[kennah]

Yeah... this is a really tough project. APU maybe?

 

[Addnan]

Yeah... this is a really tough project. APU maybe?

MMOs with an APU is going to be a little hard.

 

[kennah]

MMOs with an APU is going to be a little hard.

HD4600?

 

[kittoo]

Guys how are these PSUs? Which ones would you recommend?

Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650 Watts PSU
Corsair CMPSU-700GUK 700 Watts
Cooler Master Thunder 700 Watts PSU

Edit: System config:

Core i7 4770k
Gigabyte Z87X-UD3 Mobo
16GB Corsair vengeance 1600MHz
Samsung 840 series 250GB SSD
3 other HDDs
Graphics card- One of these- GTX 780, 780Ti or AMD R290x.

Thanks.

 

[Addnan]

HD4600?

That would probably work, but then raises the issue of higher board prices and higher CPU prices.

Guys how are these PSUs? Which ones would you recommend?

Corsair CMPSU-650TX 650 Watts PSU
Corsair CMPSU-700GUK 700 Watts
Cooler Master Thunder 700 Watts PSU

If those are the only option then the first one. The GS series of Corsair are pretty low end and Cooler Master is a little hit and miss.TX is pretty decent.

 

[Garteal]

I just checked an unboxing of a Sapphire Vapor X R9 280X, and it does look like there's included a molex to 8 pin adapter. Now I don't know that PSU, but if you have those two molex available you should be good to go with the Sapphire card.

Ah, thanks. It wasn't listed on the website where I was ordering it from but others do have it listed yes. It might get a little messy though having to add another cable, but do you think one cable with two molex sockets is going to work? Or do I need two seperate cables plugged to the PSU?

 

[kittoo]

That would probably work, but then raises the issue of higher board prices and higher CPU prices.


If those are the only option then the first one. The GS series of Corsair are pretty low end and Cooler Master is a little hit and miss.TX is pretty decent.

Yeah they are the only options as the only sellers who are selling Seasonic M12II-650 here in India, don't ship tp my location for some reason.
Thanks for the answer bro.

 

[LordAlu]

€500 with a monitor is really pushing anything decent. This will run games, but settings will need to be tame. MMOs are generally CPU heavy and so if there are a lot of people on screen you will probably see drop in performance.

MSI B75 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007PKDU4G/

i3 3220 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008F65MO0/

650 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0099AOAQC/

PSU http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009RMP14M/ (I hate this PSU, but since this a very budget build you can probably get away with it.)

RAM http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002LE8D2A/

Case http://www.scan.co.uk/products/frac...0-black-interior-black-micro-atx-case-w-o-psu or pick one your self.

Monitor, don't really know. very little budget to play with. http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0097HYR24/

This works out to €483.

Edit: I missed the SSD. I give up . Don't know where else to make cuts.

Edit: How does this look?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Pentium G3220 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor (£42.38 @ Scan.co.uk)
Motherboard: MSI B85M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£52.62 @ Scan.co.uk)
Memory: Corsair XMS3 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£24.15 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Kingston SSDNow V300 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (£63.99 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 650 2GB Video Card (£85.98 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1000 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (£28.49 @ Scan.co.uk)
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 450W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (£35.34 @ Scan.co.uk)
Monitor: Hannspree HE225DPB 21.5" Monitor (£89.98 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £422.93 = €498.40
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-22 16:58 BST+0100)

The 760K would take it over your €500 budget.

 

[coughlanio]

With regards to my €500 build with monitor, what about an Athlon II X4 750K and 260x?

 

[SneakyStephan]

A bit of a challenge here.

I have a strict budget of €500 (including 1080p monitor) to build a PC. It should be able to handle modern games, FFXIV in particular. It needs to be ITX or mATX at the most.

I'd prefer an SSD over an HDD (I have a NAS), and my preferred retailers are Amazon, Scan UK and Overclockers UK in that order.

Keep in mind that's 500 Euro.

Thanks

500 with a monitor?
Even if you get some really crappy 99 euro samsung monitor, it's not a good idea to spend only 400 on a pc.

PC price performance looks like a bell curve

for example a 40 euro difference in spending can give you 50 percent more gpu power and a hdd that is twice as big.

the 433 euro pc in the OP is a lot better than if you just spend 400 on much lower end parts, there'll always be a fixed baseline cost for hdd,case,psu, disc drive

If I were to build I wouldn't buy the 433 build either... better to just save an extra 150 euros and just build an i5+z87 then you have an easy upgradepath (gpu)down the line and the rest of your pc will remain highly capable for the next 4years

If saving a bit longer really isn't an option then the 433 euro build is still great, just don't expect to run 30 fps ps4/xbone games at 60 fps on that pc, the cpu is just as low end
you get what you pay for

 

[Spiritreaver]

7950s did the same a few days ago, totally bizarre.

Incredible, glad I didn't wait. I figured it was a safe bet ordering from Amazon regardless of what happened to the price on the 7970. If it went down, surely they'd refund the difference (they've done it before). Didn't expect prices to shoot up though.

Whew!