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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.

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MattyH

MattyH

Member
hopefully you guys can help but im looking to build a new rig for Streaming (twitch etc) and also video capture but rather than a full desktop rig im wondering if it would be possible to get good performance for streaming from a mini atx/Shuttle build
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
Am I the only one that is "meh" about the black friday/cyber monday sales? You can always find an SSD or RAM on sale throughout the rest of the year.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
MattyH said:
hopefully you guys can help but im looking to build a new rig for Streaming (twitch etc) and also video capture but rather than a full desktop rig im wondering if it would be possible to get good performance for streaming from a mini atx/Shuttle build
Click to expand...
Do you mean a machine specifically built to capture video from a gaming machine/console, not play games on?

If so, I can whip something up for you.
CreepingFear said:
Am I the only one that is "meh" about the black friday/cyber monday sales? You can always find an SSD or RAM on sale throughout the rest of the year.
Click to expand...
Look through my post history, I warned everyone that they're never ever good. Only stuff you will find on sale are SSDs, peripherals, and memory. Maybe the odd case or two.
 
MattyH

MattyH

Member
mkenyon said:
Do you mean a machine specifically built to capture video from a gaming machine/console, not play games on?

If so, I can whip something up for you.

yeah just something i can capture video on from my 360 and other consoles the most i play pc game wise is Guild wars 2
Click to expand...
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Depending on whether you want higher quality stream and 30fps or lower quality stream and 60fps, you'd want to go with the BlackMagic Intensity Pro for the former, and the AVerMedia Live Gamer HD for the latter.

Put it in one of the HTPC builds w/ AMD Fusion from here. This WILL NOT be able to play graphic intensive games. The most you will get out of it are indie titles or games that aren't too demanding like Paradox Grand Strategy titles.

If you want to be able to play a host of more intensive games, you'd need to go to mATX to have room for the capture card as well as the graphics card.
 
MattyH

MattyH

Member
mkenyon said:
Depending on whether you want higher quality stream and 30fps or lower quality stream and 60fps, you'd want to go with the BlackMagic Intensity Pro for the former, and the AVerMedia Live Gamer HD for the latter.

Put it in one of the HTPC builds w/ AMD Fusion from here. This WILL NOT be able to play graphic intensive games. The most you will get out of it are indie titles or games that aren't too demanding like Paradox Grand Strategy titles.

If you want to be able to play a host of more intensive games, you'd need to go to mATX to have room for the capture card as well as the graphics card.
Click to expand...

well il be using an elgato game capture hd but it does seem the amd fusion is a good route to go down
 
batman2million

batman2million

Member
ZombieSupaStar said:
where the fuck is my non reference 290s?

where the fuck!?
Click to expand...

I'm as pissed off as you are. This is pathetic, even for AMD. I've sold my 570 in hopes of this would've been out by the end of November.
I keep hearing, 2nd week of dec, end of dec, early jan, maybe feb?

I mostly game on PC and now I can't play anything!! If they don't give me some concrete details soon, I'm gonna jump back to team green.
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Holy moly, Windows 8 is expensive! Guess I'll be sticking with Windows 7 for now.

Looking around, has anyone used mskeyoffer.com to purchase Windows? It looks legit, but it seems fishy how cheap it is.
 
K

kharma45

Member
Marauder Shields said:
Sweet thanks for the feedback.

Just regarding the luck factor you mentioned, how can I tell whether I have a "good" card or not? Do I determine it once I run the overclock and see how the card handles it?
Click to expand...

Yes it's a matter of OCing and seeing how far you get with regards to clocks, voltage and temps.

MattyH said:
well il be using an elgato game capture hd but it does seem the amd fusion is a good route to go down
Click to expand...

I'd wait for Kaveri though if you're going down that route, it's out Jan 14.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
batman2million said:
I'm as pissed off as you are. This is pathetic, even for AMD. I've sold my 570 in hopes of this would've been out by the end of November.
I keep hearing, 2nd week of dec, end of dec, early jan, maybe feb?

I mostly game on PC and now I can't play anything!! If they don't give me some concrete details soon, I'm gonna jump back to team green.
Click to expand...
Why not buy a 290 and an aftermarket cooler?
 
K

kharma45

Member
mkenyon said:
Why not buy a 290 and an aftermarket cooler?
Click to expand...

Doesn't that void your warranty on all but XFXs offering? Tech Report also said something else negative on their podcast about it, something along the lines of once that cooler and paste are bonded it's fairly hard to remove if you ever wanted to.

You're right though you could do that, but it could also work out more expensive than waiting for a non-ref model as you're talking $75 for an Accelero Xtreme III.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
kharma45 said:
Doesn't that void your warranty on all but XFXs offering? Tech Report also said something else negative on their podcast about it, something along the lines of once that cooler and paste are bonded it's fairly hard to remove if you ever wanted to.

You're right though you could do that, but it could also work out more expensive than waiting for a non-ref model as you're talking $75 for an Accelero Xtreme III.
Click to expand...
No. I mean, yes, but no. They even honor warranties if you install a waterblock. Unless it's the installation of said item that obviously killed it. I've RMA'd stuff with MSI, EVGA, and ASUS that had waterblocks on it previously.

If they're talking about it being hard to remove, then it has to be something like Diamond where it cures. Just get a decent paste and you don't have to worry about that. Something like Prolimatech PK-X or Noctua's stuff.

Unless they're talking about the little RAM sinks that go on with thermal tape. But those still come off fairly easily.
 
C

CreepingFear

Member
Addnan said:
This is what mkenyon had been saying! Black Friday/Cyber Monday is nothing special for PC parts.
Click to expand...

mkenyon said:
Look through my post history, I warned everyone that they're never ever good. Only stuff you will find on sale are SSDs, peripherals, and memory. Maybe the odd case or two.
Click to expand...

I read mkenyon's posts and also remember past sale disappointments, but I guess I started to believe twitter hype or something that this year would be different. I think that I have very specific tastes as well. I've never been impressed with Black Friday, computer components or otherwise.
 
C

CRS

Member
After Walmart's glitch a while back, Black Friday/Cyber Monday looks weak to me.


Even more after hoping for sales on PC parts.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Also, on the non-Reference 290 discussion:

Keep in mind that the 7950 was the first time ever that I can remember where non-reference cards were available day one. Typically, they're available 2-3 months after release, and that's assuming yields are good. Look at how long it took for non-reference 780s to come out.

AMD has a number of things going on here. First, they need to make sure that the AIBs aren't putting out shitty coolers that can barely dissipate the 250W+ of heat that the 290 can put out. XFX and Powercolor/Club3D come to mind here.

Then, they need to make sure that dissipating the 250W+ of heat into the system isn't going to overheat Joe Blow's proc/motherboard/HDDs because he only has one 80mm shitty exhaust fan. Not everyone has a GAF thread that handholds them through the entire process, making sure their system and enclosure is up to snuff for their new video cards :p
 
S

SpyGuy239

Member
Lonely1 said:
Is choosing a 4GB 770 over a 780 Ti based on the higher amount of VRAM a good idea?
Click to expand...

DO NOT.

The 780 is just RAW power in there. not that the 770 isn't, but if you're comparing between RAM, hell no. I just swapped out my 770 4GB for a 780 with amazon. NO REGRETS =D
 
A

AJLma

Member
Maybe old news, but with regards to the non-reference R9 290's, I just found this after a quick search:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sapphire-bios-r9-290-amd-powertune,25202.html

Furthermore, while no details were provided, Sapphire has announced that in the coming weeks it will be coming out with various different R9-290 graphics cards built on its own designs, with better cooling solutions.
Click to expand...

Seeing as the Vapor-X 7970 GHz's are selling on eBay for $350+, I'm seriously considering selling mine and waiting for the non-reference R9 290's. Spending an extra $50-$75 for the upgrade should be worth it in the long run.

I just hope that by "in the coming weeks" they actually mean weeks. :/
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Just keep in mind that's a lot of heat being dissipated inside of your case. That will mean increased CPU temps, possibly even dramatic changes there.
 
batman2million

batman2million

Member
mkenyon said:
Why not buy a 290 and an aftermarket cooler?
Click to expand...

I don't want to go through that hassle or spend the extra cash and I usually end up messing those things up. Plus I pretty sure it won't fit in my case with cooler attached.


I don't recall reference coolers being running as hot and as loud as the 290s have been. Not only that, the recent reports of inconsistent frequencies on the ref cards worry me.

just asking for a date.
 
M

MadSexual

Member
I'm in charge of some builds for a few friends and they are all getting ready to pull the trigger. The only thing still giving me trouble is the video card. The upper limit on the budget allocation for the GPU is $400, so I've got it down to:

770 4GB, R9 280X, and 7970 Ghz ed.

These guys all want price/performance value with as much staying power as they can afford at the moment. None of them care about streaming, GSync, or SLi/Crossfire.

If you're buying right now, what do you choose and why (feel free to get technical)?
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
Shit. Did I really need to buy a full tower? This damn Phantom NZXT is a huge bitch.

I got scared my motherboard (Asus Z87) wouldn't fit which is why I overlooked mid towers. I also didn't realize most standard desktops are mid towers. To reiterate, this is what I'm putting in the thing:

Asus Z87
GTX 760
8GB of RAM
120 GB SDD
1 Optical Drive
550w Power Supply

According to PCPP the motherboard should fit, but can anyone here confirm that?

And what the fuck am I gonna use these FIVE DRIVE BAYS for?!

Oh well. A case this big should get me better airflow and thus a cooler system right?
 
K

kennah

Member
MadSexual said:
I'm in charge of some builds for a few friends and they are all getting ready to pull the trigger. The only thing still giving me trouble is the video card. The upper limit on the budget allocation for the GPU is $400, so I've got it down to:

770 4GB, R9 280X, and 7970 Ghz ed.

These guys all want price/performance value with as much staying power as they can afford at the moment. None of them care about streaming, GSync, or SLi/Crossfire.

If you're buying right now, what do you choose and why (feel free to get technical)?
Click to expand...

Spend less somewhere else/spend a little more and get a 780. None of those cards are worth buying. The 770 is a 680 with a new sticker. The 280X and 7970GHz are literally the same card and already a year old.
 
D

Dr Dogg

Member
mkenyon said:
Airflow is pretty good. The Prodigy isn't really all that small. My HTPC sits in one though, as I love it. Probably my favorite mass market case ever. Maybe the Fractal Arc...
Click to expand...

Ah top stuff, cheers. Yeah I know it's not the most discrete case but seeing as my only spare is a monstrous HAF X it will be tiiiiiiny in comparison. My only problem now is what bloody colour to get!
 
G

Guy.brush

Member
The Lone Courier said:
Which OS is better for gaming? Tigerdirect has both Windows 7 and 8.1 for about 90 bucks. Its one of the last pieces I need for my build.
Click to expand...

Windows 8.1 seems to be a bit snappier in UI, seems to be a slightly lesser resource-hog and there are some benchmark comparisons that show that it is slightly faster when it comes to modern games. Despite its shitty reputation it got some unter-the-hood improvements.

The one bad thing I discovered is that one of those improvements apparently had to do with getting away with some legacy 2D ddraw stuff so a small percentage of older games don't run as good as they used to on Win7. One particular example was NOLF1. This behavior might be fixed in the future though hopefully.
 
O

Onyar

Member
That's what I thought:

  • Intel Core i7-4770 3.4Ghz Box
  • Asus Z87-A
  • Noctua NH-D14
  • Kingston HyperX Blu Red DDR3 1600 PC3-12800 8GB CL10
  • Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 1TB SATA3
  • Samsung 840 Evo SSD Series 120GB SATA3
  • NOX Coolbay SX Devil USB 3.0
  • Tacens Radix VI 850W
  • GigaByte GeForce GTX 770 OC 4GB GDDR5
  • Asus Xonar DGX 5.1 PCIe
  • Asus DRW-24B5ST DVD 24X Black OEM

~1200€
 
B

bro1

Banned
kennah said:
Spend less somewhere else/spend a little more and get a 780. None of those cards are worth buying. The 770 is a 680 with a new sticker. The 280X and 7970GHz are literally the same card and already a year old.
Click to expand...

The difference between the 770 and 780 isn't that great. However, a 780 TI is a huge step up. Also, the 770 is faster than a 680. I believe that there is a 1000mhz difference on clock.
 
M

MadSexual

Member
kennah said:
Spend less somewhere else/spend a little more and get a 780. None of those cards are worth buying. The 770 is a 680 with a new sticker. The 280X and 7970GHz are literally the same card and already a year old.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the advice, but I can save only $50 on RAM. Everything else is pretty much where it has to be for a $1200 build, and that's already cutting corners.

You aren't wrong about the sticker equivalencies in the three cards, but I don't think it's right to say they are all bad choices. Enthusiasts will be saying exactly the same thing about the 780 in a year too. It is obviously the better card, but my stock 7870 is running BF4 at 1080/60 on ultra, and it's significantly behind these cards in power. These guys will probably never own a 1440/4k monitor, so certain standards have to adjusted for people with different expectations.

bro1 said:
The difference between the 770 and 780 isn't that great. However, a 780 TI is a huge step up. Also, the 770 is faster than a 680. I believe that there is a 1000mhz difference on clock.
Click to expand...
Now this is helpful and why I asked in the first place. Do you have a particular recommendation?
 
E

Exuro

Member
antonz said:
Heads up on a good memory deal

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

49.99 at newegg
Click to expand...
Aw I was hoping to order this after I finished classes this morning but they've sold out. Are there any similar deals? Newegg's cybermonday pages are horrible to navigate.

I'm seeing a few $50 2x4GB from Team Vulcan. Are those any good? Never heard of the brand.

EDIT: Is this a good deal/good ram? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231468
 
K

kennah

Member
MadSexual said:
I appreciate the advice, but I can save only $50 on RAM. Everything else is pretty much where it has to be for a $1200 build, and that's already cutting corners.

You aren't wrong about the sticker equivalencies in the three cards, but I don't think it's right to say they are all bad choices. Enthusiasts will be saying exactly the same thing about the 780 in a year too. It is obviously the better card, but my stock 7870 is running BF4 at 1080/60 on ultra, and it's significantly behind these cards in power. These guys will probably never own a 1440/4k monitor, so certain standards have to adjusted for people with different expectations.
Click to expand...

All sorts of opinions in this ol thread. No worries - That said. The 760 and 770 don't have a $100 difference in performance to them. I'd go down that route or the 280x/7970. 760 is plenty card for most people.
I have a 670, and speak from a dollars/performance and new tech/old tech perspective. 780 will remain a hell of a card for a long time as will the 290.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
thespot84 said:
full. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8.1-Pro-Student/productID.288769600
Click to expand...

If that is the case and no other version of Windows is needed than that is perfect. His girlfriend is currently getting her masters degree.

CrookedRain said:
Weird thing though is that it has this disclaimer:
Important: Windows 8.1 Pro full version is for Windows 7 users only. Currently running Windows Vista or XP? First upgrade to Windows 8 Pro Upgrade – Student Offer. Upon installation you can update to 8.1 for free.
Click to expand...

That's the only thing that worries me.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
No seriously. What are going to be the actual benefits of a full tower in my situation? Am I gonna see a noticeable difference in CPU and GPU temps? What if I try to overclock in the future?
 
M

MadSexual

Member
kennah said:
All sorts of opinions in this ol thread. No worries - That said. The 760 and 770 don't have a $100 difference in performance to them. I'd go down that route or the 280x/7970. 760 is plenty card for most people.
I have a 670, and speak from a dollars/performance and new tech/old tech perspective. 780 will remain a hell of a card for a long time as will the 290.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty helpful perspective. I've got another friend going the 760 route but I hadn't considered it. Totally agree with the spoiler text. It's not a great time to be buying a new card with all the uncertainty on the horizon. They may be better off saving a bit more and having it for the next gen die shrink when we'll all want to upgrade. At least now, I have clearer talking points when presenting their options.
 
T

thespot84

Member
Felix Lighter said:
If that is the case and no other version of Windows is needed than that is perfect. His girlfriend is currently getting her masters degree.



That's the only thing that worries me.
Click to expand...

I have not tried installing this from a non-windows 7 machine. What I did is download the isntaller to my win 7 pro machine, ran it and chose "install to bootable media", which then made a flash drive I had loaded into a windows 8 installer. I haven't tried to install this on a blank disk yet (all my parts haven't come yet), but a friend did and said it worked. That's all I know so far...
 
K

kennah

Member
MadSexual said:
That's a pretty helpful perspective. I've got another friend going the 760 route but I hadn't considered it. Totally agree with the spoiler text. It's not a great time to be buying a new card with all the uncertainty on the horizon. They may be better off saving a bit more and having it for the next gen die shrink when we'll all want to upgrade. At least now, I have clearer talking points when presenting their options.
Click to expand...

That basically hits the nail on the head. Get a 760 or other $250 AMD card and upgrade sooner, or go balls out for a 780 or the 290 and upgrade a year or two later.
 
B

bro1

Banned
MadSexual said:
I appreciate the advice, but I can save only $50 on RAM. Everything else is pretty much where it has to be for a $1200 build, and that's already cutting corners.

You aren't wrong about the sticker equivalencies in the three cards, but I don't think it's right to say they are all bad choices. Enthusiasts will be saying exactly the same thing about the 780 in a year too. It is obviously the better card, but my stock 7870 is running BF4 at 1080/60 on ultra, and it's significantly behind these cards in power. These guys will probably never own a 1440/4k monitor, so certain standards have to adjusted for people with different expectations.


Now this is helpful and why I asked in the first place. Do you have a particular recommendation?
Click to expand...

At this point, go with the AMD card as they are going to introduce Mantle which seems like it may be huge in many upcoming PC games.
 
F

Felix Lighter

Member
thespot84 said:
I have not tried installing this from a non-windows 7 machine. What I did is download the isntaller to my win 7 pro machine, ran it and chose "install to bootable media", which then made a flash drive I had loaded into a windows 8 installer. I haven't tried to install this on a blank disk yet (all my parts haven't come yet), but a friend did and said it worked. That's all I know so far...
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll do a little more digging. I'll check in the Windows 8.1 OT.
 
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