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[mkenyon]

Wouldn't ips be better? I am a total ignorant about monitors. I don't game that much, and i rarely watch videos as i have my 40" tv for that.
Is g-sync important? Totally out of budget?

There aren't any 24" G-Sync monitors available yet. Given the games you play, G-Sync would not be important though.

IPS is better for very static games, which Hearthstone would qualify as. Other stuff, like turn based strategy and the like would also benefit. The major pitfalls with IPS are poor contrast and poor motion resolution (meaning high amounts of blur).

The benefits to the TN panels I listed are 120Hz refresh rate, which will improve overall usability. There's some anecdotal studies by ASUS that shows reduced eye fatigue with 120Hz panels. The downside to TN is poor viewing angles and poor color consistency. Those would be problematic if you were accustomed to IPS already, or if you do professional work where color accuracy is important.

The best option is VA, which has great contrast, color consistency that is almost as good as IPS, great viewing angles, and in the case of panels such as the Eizo Foris FG2421, has great motion resolution due to the 120Hz refresh rate with low-persistence strobing.

The fact that you want a 24" panel is what really pushes your requirement set towards a 120Hz panel. If you aren't too bothered by poor motion resolution, and could go with a 27" panel, something like the QNIX Evolution II in the OP would be a good choice. Though, I'm on Team 120Hz, so I'll always recommend people to go that route unless they have specific needs that would benefit from a large resolution IPS panel.

There are no IPS 120/144Hz monitors, unfortunately. G-Sync is cool, but costly. And requires you have an nVidia GPU.

They have a 770. The games they play are SC2, Hearthstone, and LoL, which nullifies the need for G-Sync. It's best for graphic hog games that you aren't able to sustain >16.7ms frametimes. The other huge benefit of G-Sync, which is eliminating screen tearing, is already accomplished by 120Hz panels.

That's cool, if motherboard audio has improved then that's fine for me. My work involves little in the way of advanced audio work (there's usually a post-house that sorts all that out) and as long as games sound nice with a decent set of headphones then I don't really need much else.

Ok, let's move on to the real nitty-gritty stuff: assuming I buy the components for a new PC, what next? Is there a specific order I need to install everything? How do I go about installing drivers for hardware before an OS is in place, or is that the first thing I sort out? I've never remotely attempted to build a PC so my knowledge here is severely limited - the most I've done previously was to upgrade my graphics card and put more RAM in, which was easy.

Check out the OP in depth. Lots of articles and videos to help with this sort of thing. Once you get started, and you have specific questions, feel free to post and people will help out.

 

[The Llama]

That's cool, if motherboard audio has improved then that's fine for me. My work involves little in the way of advanced audio work (there's usually a post-house that sorts all that out) and as long as games sound nice with a decent set of headphones then I don't really need much else.

Ok, let's move on to the real nitty-gritty stuff: assuming I buy the components for a new PC, what next? Is there a specific order I need to install everything? How do I go about installing drivers for hardware before an OS is in place, or is that the first thing I sort out? I've never remotely attempted to build a PC so my knowledge here is severely limited - the most I've done previously was to upgrade my graphics card and put more RAM in, which was easy.

Actually building the PC isn't too difficult. I won't go through the exact order of things (unless you really want? lol) but its straightforward in terms of what goes where. Basically, you physically assemble everything, then turn it on with the USB drive with Windows attached, and install that. Then you'll install all your drivers. If you're installed a GPU and RAM before, you already know how to do half the work anyway haha.

 

[yatesl]

That's cool, if motherboard audio has improved then that's fine for me. My work involves little in the way of advanced audio work (there's usually a post-house that sorts all that out) and as long as games sound nice with a decent set of headphones then I don't really need much else.

Ok, let's move on to the real nitty-gritty stuff: assuming I buy the components for a new PC, what next? Is there a specific order I need to install everything? How do I go about installing drivers for hardware before an OS is in place, or is that the first thing I sort out? I've never remotely attempted to build a PC so my knowledge here is severely limited - the most I've done previously was to upgrade my graphics card and put more RAM in, which was easy.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls

Once you've installed Windows it'll automatically pick up most of the drivers, unless you're using something super exotic. All hardware usually comes with a disc with a driver on anyway - although the only think you'll want is ethernet drivers so you can access the Internet, in the very rare chance Windows doesn't pick up your ethernet port.

 

[Durante]

The other huge benefit of G-Sync, which is eliminating screen tearing, is already accomplished by 120Hz panels.

That's not completely true. I mean, you can much more easily enable triple buffering at 120 Hz than at 60 Hz (with a much smaller input lag impact and less judder), but it doesn't quite eliminate screen tearing the same way G-sync does. (We are talking input lag and judder numbers at that refresh rate that I personally wouldn't notice though)

 

[Alexalder]

There aren't any 24" G-Sync monitors available yet. Given the games you play, G-Sync would not be important though.

IPS is better for very static games, which Hearthstone would qualify as. Other stuff, like turn based strategy and the like would also benefit. The major pitfalls with IPS are poor contrast and poor motion resolution (meaning high amounts of blur).

The benefits to the TN panels I listed are 120Hz refresh rate, which will improve overall usability. There's some anecdotal studies by ASUS that shows reduced eye fatigue with 120Hz panels. The downside to TN is poor viewing angles and poor color consistency. Those would be problematic if you were accustomed to IPS already, or if you do professional work where color accuracy is important.

The best option is VA, which has great contrast, color consistency that is almost as good as IPS, great viewing angles, and in the case of panels such as the Eizo Foris FG2421, has great motion resolution due to the 120Hz refresh rate with low-persistence strobing.

The fact that you want a 24" panel is what really pushes your requirement set towards a 120Hz panel. If you aren't too bothered by poor motion resolution, and could go with a 27" panel, something like the QNIX Evolution II in the OP would be a good choice. Though, I'm on Team 120Hz, so I'll always recommend people to go that route unless they have specific needs that would benefit from a large resolution IPS panel.

They have a 770. The games they play are SC2, Hearthstone, and LoL, which nullifies the need for G-Sync. It's best for graphic hog games that you aren't able to sustain >16.7ms frametimes. The other huge benefit of G-Sync, which is eliminating screen tearing, is already accomplished by 120Hz panels.

Check out the OP in depth. Lots of articles and videos to help with this sort of thing. Once you get started, and you have specific questions, feel free to post and people will help out.

Wow, this post taught me a lot, thanks. So i should choose between the 2428 and the 2411Z? People seem to prefer the latter, is it right?

 

[kiyomi]

That's cool, if motherboard audio has improved then that's fine for me. My work involves little in the way of advanced audio work (there's usually a post-house that sorts all that out) and as long as games sound nice with a decent set of headphones then I don't really need much else.

Ok, let's move on to the real nitty-gritty stuff: assuming I buy the components for a new PC, what next? Is there a specific order I need to install everything? How do I go about installing drivers for hardware before an OS is in place, or is that the first thing I sort out? I've never remotely attempted to build a PC so my knowledge here is severely limited - the most I've done previously was to upgrade my graphics card and put more RAM in, which was easy.

If you've installed a GPU and RAM, you've.. basically done the exact same thing you'd do with a full computer. It really is just a case of managing your screws and making sure the right connections meet the right devices. There's a great Tech Report video in the OP which goes through every step of building the PC and that's a great place to start.

As for drivers - you install Windows before you do anything, and once you're in, you update, update and update.

 

[mkenyon]

While you're absolutely right, try running your VG248QE at 144Hz without triple buffering and report back on whether you notice screen tearing.

Wow, this post taught me a lot, thanks. So i should choose between the 2428 and the 2411Z? People seem to prefer the latter, is it right?

No problem! And yes, that is generally the preferred monitor of the two.

Again though, if 27" is possible for you, you might enjoy the increased real estate of a 1440p monitor for productivity needs. Durante swears by it for coding. I'm not saying this is definitely the better way to go, but you might enjoy it a bit more.

If you're pretty serious about League though, the 120Hz would be beneficial. And I swear the card animations look astonishingly good on 120Hz with Hearthstone.

If dual monitors are a possibility though, keep your old one around.

 

[Bumhat]

If you've installed a GPU and RAM, you've.. basically done the exact same thing you'd do with a full computer. It really is just a case of managing your screws and making sure the right connections meet the right devices. There's a great Tech Report video in the OP which goes through every step of building the PC and that's a great place to start.

As for drivers - you install Windows before you do anything, and once you're in, you update, update and update.

Great advice, thanks Mono and everyone else - I'll check out the videos and start learning!

 

[Durante]

While you're absolutely right, try running your VG248QE at 144Hz without triple buffering and report back on whether you notice screen tearing.

I do notice tearing at 120 Hz in unfortunate situations (that is, the tear occurring repeatedly in roughly the same location, which isn't as unlikely as it sounds in practice), I don't think 144 would be different. But as I said, at those refresh rates I can enable triple buffering and not notice any impact on input lag or judder, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Alexalder]

While you're absolutely right, try running your VG248QE at 144Hz without triple buffering and report back on whether you notice screen tearing.

No problem! And yes, that is generally the preferred monitor of the two.

Again though, if 27" is possible for you, you might enjoy the increased real estate of a 1440p monitor for productivity needs. Durante swears by it for coding.

If dual monitors are a possibility though, keep your old one around.

Now you're tempting me :/ I don't know, i feel that at 40cm viewing distance a 24" is already big enough it sometimes feels weird when i am tired and i have to move my eyes that much. And i have a 40" Panasonic "second-screen" directly above.
What models do you recommend at 27"? I'll try to check some of these out in a shop
Thanks again, much appreciated

 

[mkenyon]

Durante is a superhuman with uncanny eyesight, confirmed.

Now you're tempting me :/ I don't know, i feel that at 40cm viewing distance a 24" is already big enough it sometimes feels weird when i am tired and i have to move my eyes that much. And i have a 40" Panasonic "second-screen" directly above.
What models do you recommend at 27"? I'll try to check some of these out in a shop
Thanks again, much appreciated

Interestingly enough, the panel you'd want to look at is the 27" Apple Cinema Display, also on the 27" iMac. That'll give you a pretty good idea of them, though Apple does use a gloss surface, which makes the colors a bit more "poppy".

You probably won't be able to view a 120Hz/144Hz panel at a store though.

 

[adamantypants]

That's not completely true. I mean, you can much more easily enable triple buffering at 120 Hz than at 60 Hz (with a much smaller input lag impact and less judder), but it doesn't quite eliminate screen tearing the same way G-sync does. (We are talking input lag and judder numbers at that refresh rate that I personally wouldn't notice though)

Well I wouldn't complain at an 8ms screen tear

Now you're tempting me :/ I don't know, i feel that at 40cm viewing distance a 24" is already big enough it sometimes feels weird when i am tired and i have to move my eyes that much. And i have a 40" Panasonic "second-screen" directly above.
What models do you recommend at 27"? I'll try to check some of these out in a shop
Thanks again, much appreciated

I was almost sold on a larger 27" screen even though I already felt like 24" was big enough. So I actually went and bought one, used it for like a day and couldn't deal with the huge size so I dropped back down to 24". It's all personal preference.

 

[Durante]

Durante is a superhuman with uncanny eyesight, confirmed.

I also see aliasing in 4k images with SMAA, so I guess so

But seriously, it's not a great thing to be "blessed" with 20 years of involuntary training in spotting artifacts in computer graphics. My suggestion would be to try to avoid it!

Interestingly enough, the panel you'd want to look at is the 27" Apple Cinema Display, also on the 27" iMac. That'll give you a pretty good idea of them, though Apple does use a gloss surface, which makes the colors a bit more "poppy".

If we are talking about Korean 27" IPS/PLS screens here, they are also available with a glossy finish. (Mine is glossy)

 

[Alexalder]

Durante is a superhuman with uncanny eyesight, confirmed.

Interestingly enough, the panel you'd want to look at is the 27" Apple Cinema Display, also on the 27" iMac. That'll give you a pretty good idea of them, though Apple does use a gloss surface, which makes the colors a bit more "poppy".

You probably won't be able to view a 120Hz/144Hz panel at a store though.

Yeah i was asking about models to buy, in stores i'll only check the size. Also i am reading reviews in which they say the XL2420Z has better contrast than the 2411. Is this true? I though they had the same panel? Is it a good buy at 80€ more?

 

[mkenyon]

HARDWARE CANUCKS REVIEW OF THE AIR 240 IS UP.

Yeah i was asking about models to buy, in stores i'll only check the size. Also i am reading reviews in which they say the XL2420Z has better contrast than the 2411. Is this true? I though they had the same panel? Is it a good buy at 80€ more?

To be honest, I'm not sure at all.

 

[The Llama]

Yeah i was asking about models to buy, in stores i'll only check the size. Also i am reading reviews in which they say the XL2420Z has better contrast than the 2411. Is this true? I though they had the same panel? Is it a good buy at 80€ more?

All the research I did said that they use the same panel, so I'm not sure what review said that, but I honestly don't think thats true. Definitely not worth that much more though, at least IMO. I have the 2411Z and love it.

 

[Dunbar]

Quick monitor question, is there much of a difference between these two?:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GTV05XG/?tag=neogaf0e-20 (Dell U2414H)

and

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005JN9310/?tag=neogaf0e-20 (Dell U2412M)

I'm guessing they're comparable and either would be fine, but I like the thin bezel on the U2414H. Also, would there be any issues using this as my primary monitor and an older monitor (another Ultrasharp that's about 8 years old) as my 2nd monitor? I'd like to only have to buy one new monitor if necessary, and I'm planning to use only the new monitor for gaming - the 2nd (older) monitor would just be for other stuff.

 

[kiyomi]

The U2412M is 16:10, the U2414H is 16:9. That's the biggest difference. I'd just go for the U2414H unless you love 16:10. I have a P2314H and I fucking love it.

Also personally I prefer a more pronounced bezel if it means I don't have to see the 'internal bezel' every time I switch the screen on, it always feels kinda like a scam when you think you've got a thin bezel but the actual display doesn't touch it.

 

[The Llama]

Eh, 16:10 is pretty awesome and I'd get that monitor. The extra pixels are nice.

 

[garath]

Eh, 16:10 is pretty awesome and I'd get that monitor. The extra pixels are nice.

I miss 16:10 so much. I was so sad to move to 16:9. Terrible gaming resolution in comparison. Fine for movies but gaming I prefer 16:10 all the way.

 

[kiyomi]

Yeah 16:10 is the sex. You can't really go wrong with either tho.

 

[Dunbar]

My only preference was for the look of the 16:9 monitor, so if 16:10 is that much better, I'll happily get that. I don't really know anything about monitors. Next up will be trying to configure my new PC to perform properly because I don't think I've got that down yet either.

 

[Blackage]

I went ahead and returned that Asus 290x I purchased 2 weeks ago, went through god knows how many drivers and RMA'd it but it still has issues, fortunately Newegg will refund it up to 30 days, sad times. Kinda turned off from future AMD purchases now. =/ I went back to my 7950, but that 290x just refused to work with any sort of stability.

 

[mkenyon]

Don't let an anecdote sour your purchase decisions. Lots of people get malfunctioning hardware from all sorts of AIBs. I've had to RMA something from just about every company.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Dell U2414H

Got one of these recently and went "Whoa this screen space is fucking huge" :O

and that's just a 23 in 1080p so i shudder while wondering if i got something bigger.

 

[Genio88]

I miss 16:10 so much. I was so sad to move to 16:9. Terrible gaming resolution in comparison. Fine for movies but gaming I prefer 16:10 all the way.

It's all about taste, i mean today lot of gamers are moving to 21:9, and i'm into them too to be honest, but i think between 16:10 and 21:9 the 16:9 are still the best choice for gaming, so i'll stick with my 16:9 AOC IPS 27"

 

[kiyomi]

What's the performance hit on GPUs from 1920x1080 to 1920x1200? Any good comparisons out there?

 

[garath]

It's all about taste, i mean today lot of gamers are moving to 21:9, and i'm into them too to be honest, but i think between 16:10 and 21:9 the 16:9 are still the best choice for gaming, so i'll stick with my 16:9 AOC IPS 27"

I don't know. It's pretty hard to call it taste. You're literally losing an inch of vertical space for nothing. Most games involve some sort of vertical landscape that is greatly improved by that additional inch:

- ARPGs have more screen for seeing enemies
- First person/third person games have more view height
- Even straight RPGs just have more on the screen

More screen > less screen.

I appreciate the standardizing it but I really never saw the drawn for COMPUTER monitors to move to 16:9 other than to conform with TVs and the console popularity.

I went from a 22" 16:10 to a 24" 16:9 and despite the improved resolution, the monitor itself felt smaller because of the loss of viewspace.

 

[The Llama]

What's the performance hit on GPUs from 1920x1080 to 1920x1200? Any good comparisons out there?

Not a ton, like 5% or so IIRC.

 

[Dave_6]

Got one of these recently and went "Whoa this screen space is fucking huge" :O

and that's just a 23 in 1080p so i shudder while wondering if i got something bigger.

Same thing I thought when I first got my VG248QE as I was coming from a 19" monitor.

 

[yatesl]

HeadsetGAF, how do you have yours set up? I have my PC connected to my monitor via line in, and then speakers connected to my monitor. I used to have my headset (Turtle Beach X12) connected to the front I/O, but leaving them plugged in was just too messy, and I'm a lazy guy.

Instead I bought an audio splitter for 99p from eBay. Took a day to arrive, and now I have my TB's plugged in to the back, getting the same audio as my speakers, whilst still being able to be plugged in to the mic jack and USB port. Quite please with myself and this slapdash solution. Cheaper than buying a separate sound card, just for the sake of tidy cables.

Here's a bonus picture I was going to include somehow, but after a couple of drinks I'm not sure where or why.

 

[mkenyon]

Jesus, those cables in your PC case are a mess!



One of the big reasons why I love my Soundblaster is the inclusion of this handy little gadget:

That's what I use.

 

[yatesl]

I bet that cost more than £1 though! Part of me would like separate audio, but I realised that when I'm using cans, I can't hear the speakers anyway - so what's the point!

 

[RazorbackDB]

Lesson learned pc gaf, don't cheap out in the mobo, i was getting continuously fps drops and stuttering in pcsx2 for like 2 seconds, after some investigation i found out it was because my mobo's vrm, apparently Asus has an OCP protection which turns the cpu clocks down when the vrm get too hot, which is actually a good thing because otherwise they would just burn. I made a solution "installing" an old cpu fan and making it blow air over the vrm, it still turns the clocks down in extreme tests like OCCT but pcsx2 works perfect now and i suppose everything cpu intensive will.

So yeah you can laugh if you want but i just wanted to share the experience in case anyone wants to get a cheap mobo, check it has good vrm first.

 

[mkenyon]

Which motherboard?

 

[RazorbackDB]

ASUS M5A78L-M LX V2 as cheap as it gets, but apparently a lot of MSI, Gigabyte boards have the same problem.

 

[thespot84]

ASUS M5A78L-M LX V2 as cheap as it gets, but apparently a lot of MSI, Gigabyte boards have the same problem.

from overclock.net:

 

[mkenyon]

ASUS M5A78L-M LX V2 as cheap as it gets, but apparently a lot of MSI, Gigabyte boards have the same problem.

I'm assuming you're using something like an 8350 or 6300? This is definitely a very common problem. Basically, the mATX motherboards can't feature the 990FX chipset, and as a result, can't really handle the power requirements of the Vishera processors. There's even MSI boards that have gone up in smoke because of it.

from overclock.net:

Yeah, that's Intel. The VRM is on-die with Haswell processors, so it's not really a concern.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

hey guys i have a question that need resolving. i have the virgin media superhub, which is essential a router and modem in one, and receive around 30mb internet.

the superhub however is located downstairs and i would like a wired connection in my bedroom to my computer/ps/xbox, i have been researching ethernet wall plugs but can someone recommend me a good one that fits my needs? i dont understand all this mbps stuff. also can someone recommend a good ethernet port for my pc, preferably external because my graphic card takes up most room inside my box

 

[thespot84]

I'm assuming you're using something like an 8350 or 6300? This is definitely a very common problem. Basically, the mATX motherboards can't feature the 990FX chipset, and as a result, can't really handle the power requirements of the Vishera processors. There's even MSI boards that have gone up in smoke because of it.

Yeah, that's Intel. The VRM is on-die with Haswell processors, so it's not really a concern.

My bad i misunderstood

 

[RazorbackDB]

I'm assuming you're using something like an 8350 or 6300? This is definitely a very common problem. Basically, the mATX motherboards can't feature the 990FX chipset, and as a result, can't really handle the power requirements of the Vishera processors. There's even MSI boards that have gone up in smoke because of it.

Yeah, that's Intel. The VRM is on-die with Haswell processors, so it's not really a concern.

An FX-6300 yes, it has served me well.

 

[kharma45]

mkenyon, bring back your avatar. I don't like you without it.

 

[Smiley90]

Still don't have access to my gpu fan speed. msi got me to update my GPU Bios, but.... that didn't help. google is also no help. -sigh-

 

[mkenyon]

mkenyon, bring back your avatar. I don't like you without it.

fixt

 

[kharma45]

Most excellent. Thank you.

 

[Kiru]

fixt

So much better!

 

[mkenyon]

Still don't have access to my gpu fan speed. msi got me to update my GPU Bios, but.... that didn't help. google is also no help. -sigh-

Which programs have you tried using?

I'd give the ASUS, (EVGA or Sapphire respectively), and Gigabyte stuff just to see.

 

[Smiley90]

Which programs have you tried using?

I'd give the ASUS, (EVGA or Sapphire respectively), and Gigabyte stuff just to see.

I've tried it with Gigabyte OC and Afterburner. Might try EVGA, just in case... but I have a feeling that it's more of a hardware issue. No idea why this would happen though. It can detect the fan rpm, just changing the percentage fan speed does nothing. Well I guess always at 100% is better than always at 0%... it's just annoyingly loud.

 

[mkenyon]

Yeah, that sounds horrible. Has to be some sort of hardware issue. I might start the RMA process, as painful as that is.

 

[garath]

fixt

I normally browse GAF without avatars. Never noticed yours before. Same zero five zero that used to play Soldier of Fortune 2 competitively? (Yeah. Way back when)