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[Hawk269]

I did some further testing. When you go to the Nvidia Control Panel it lists the 4k resolution twice. Once under UHD and this one is 3840x2160 at 30hz. When I select this and go to that UFO test, it gives errors that it is stuttering and you see the UFO scrolling across the screen really choppy.

When I select the same resolution under PC, which is 3840x2160 at 60hz and run the UFO test the top ship is very smooth and the message in the window below states "valid".

Edit: I posted this question at the Nvidia Forums in the Beta driver thread and Manual G from Nividia responded with this....

"We will have more information on this at a later date but it is technically possible to get 50Hz/60Hz at 4K resolution over HDMI 1.3 bandwidth."

Quoting to add more information...

It seems like whatever it is that Nvidia is doing, is in fact allowing 4k at 60fps via current HDMI out of the GPU's. However, in SLI it does not work. Someone at the AVSForums that tipped me off to this tested in SLI and it just crashes, but with single card it works flawlessly. Only thing is that no single card can handle modern games at high setting or higher at 4k/60fps. So I hope whatever it is that Nvidia is doing that they are able to get this working in SLI.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Once you have installed a new SSD completely. How do you delete the system partition on your old drive so you can use it for data/not have it ask you which you want to use at startup?

 

[appaws]

What kind and how many rads are we looking at for my setup? 540 won't be big enough huh

Ooooh dis gun be good.

You might be able to fit enough in the Air actually.

I will need help. No shame here. To answer your previous post, I will probably do a full loop for the GPUs and the CPU.

Hey Smokey,

I have actually gone through most of the hundreds of pages of the Air 540 thread at Overclock.net for ideas when I was doing my own WC setup.

I would heartily recommend the Air 540 to any prospective Water Cooler who was doing a loop with just a CPU and a GPU. Getting into multiple GPUs and a CPU might just stretch it a little bit too far for that case....maybe...

I have only done one build with water so far...so I would defer to a more experienced expert like MK when it comes to how much rad you need. You can get a good thick rad in front if you move the fans to the outside of the frame under the front cover. You lose the dust filter, but really who cares. You could stick a nice D5 with an EK res in the back...up above the PSU where the SSD cage would be....a 360 in front and a 240 up top...?

Or maybe Enthoo Primo or a Caselabs order in your future.

 

[maneil99]

Should I be worried about this, its been like this for a few months, seems sketchy
Properties and file location are greyed out

 

[mkenyon]

You could stick a nice D5 with an EK res in the back...up above the PSU where the SSD cage would be....a 360 in front and a 240 up top...?

Or maybe Enthoo Primo or a Caselabs order in your future.

He's going to get a max of a 360+240 or two 280s in the Air 540. Could cut out the bottom to fit another 240. But the issue is that plumbing would be the biggest bitch ever.

If he didn't have a socket 2011 proc, he could get away with cutting down on the rads. But OC'd that proc uses three times more power than a consumer socket chip.

Seems like baseline would be Enthoo Primo or 900D, but the 900D has the quality of a $100 plastic case with more space and features.

SMA8 seems like the way to go. S8 w/ pedestal would be a good option too. Having that bottom chamber for all the rad business makes the whole process SO easy. Plus you have tons of space to do things like making drain/fill lines to make the whole process of maintaining a loop a total breeze.

 

[Dries]

That means that if you make the "worse" choice, you're not missing out on much, and shouldn't fret it whatsoever.

I would generally subscribe to this set of critera though:

If for ~$330, you have the choice between a 6C/12T proc and a 4C/8T proc, and the highest generally attainable clockspeed for both is within 15% of each other, I would almost definitely prefer the 6C/12T part.

Even then though, you can't really make a BAD choice.

Got ya. Thanks bro.

 

[mkenyon]

Should I be worried about this, its been like this for a few months, seems sketchy
Properties and file location are greyed out

It's the only way to be sure.

Got ya. Thanks bro.

NP

 

[Sickbean]

Hypothetically, if someone is 100% sure that they are only ever going to have a single gpu, and space is a premium, is there any reason not to go for SFF other than build convenience?

 

[appaws]

He's going to get a max of a 360+240 or two 280s in the Air 540. Could cut out the bottom to fit another 240. But the issue is that plumbing would be the biggest bitch ever.

If he didn't have a socket 2011 proc, he could get away with cutting down on the rads. But OC'd that proc uses three times more power than a consumer socket chip.

Seems like baseline would be Enthoo Primo or 900D, but the 900D has the quality of a $100 plastic case with more space and features.

SMA8 seems like the way to go. S8 w/ pedestal would be a good option too. Having that bottom chamber for all the rad business makes the whole process SO easy. Plus you have tons of space to do things like making drain/fill lines to make the whole process of maintaining a loop a total breeze.

Ronsanut on youtube has some amazing builds in caselabs cases. Love those pedestals.

My planned project for later this year/early next year is to do a fully custom UK Wildcats build in a Caselabs enclosure. Not sure which one yet...will probably be Devil's Canyon i7 with whatever the top single GPU is at that date...

Not sure how I am going to do the Wildcat colors on a MOBO....if I was a fan of evil Tennessee or any Red/Black team, there are already a lot of choices out there....

 

[appaws]

Hypothetically, if someone is 100% sure that they are only ever going to have a single gpu! and space is a premium! is there any reason not to go for SFF other than build convenience?

I don't think so. It's seems pretty easy to do these days and there are good cases out there to do it in. And small motherboards with good features. Check out the SFF builds in the OP if you haven't.

I think most people who are going to be PC gamers and not make the jump to a more extreme PC enthusiast hobby....it seems to me that small is better. Especially with the rise of big picture mode/HTPC, etc.

 

[Sickbean]

I don't think so. It's seems pretty easy to do these days and there are good cases out there to do it in. And small motherboards with good features. Check out the SFF builds in the OP if you haven't.

I think most people who are going to be PC gamers and not make the jump to a more extreme PC enthusiast hobby....it seems to me that small is better. Especially with the rise of big picture mode/HTPC, etc.

Exactly my thoughts. I've got a fractal R3 at the moment which is a great case but bloody huge and heavy. It's a real pain to carry downstairs from the office to the living room.

I love the look of the node 304 in the SFF builds post.

 

[mkenyon]

Hypothetically, if someone is 100% sure that they are only ever going to have a single gpu, and space is a premium, is there any reason not to go for SFF other than build convenience?

mATX should be standard. ITX should be the second most popular.

What I'm saying is no. SFF is the way to go.

 

[Sickbean]

mATX should be standard. ITX should be the second most popular.

What I'm saying is no. SFF is the way to go.

Are there typically any compromises with ITX these days (other than the lack of PCI-E slots)?

 

[Reuenthal]

Reposting since I got no answer. Is it a matter of people not knowing what I am talking about in regards to how relliable r9 290 or?

I am going to order my parts in very few days

The one thing I am most undecided on is the graphics card

Basically I like the r9 290 vapor x (leaning on that) and the r9 290 tri x but I see some 780 at a similiar price. Namely EVGA GeForce GTX780 SuperClocked and several else. So price range is about $400something to $500.

I am just confused about 290 reliability issues, it seems there is an issue with black screens, but it isn't clear if it has to do with reference models. I also read that it has to do with elpida memory that is supposedly not used with tri X and vapor X? Since I am ordering for parts to be shipped to Cyprus from aboard I would rather not to have to RMA.


I would love to get the vapor x if it is reliable enough because performance, temperature wise seems pretty damn good and better than the 780 or other r290.

 

[McBryBry]

So I'm considering switching to mATX for my first build. My questions are:

Do we know when the Air 240 will be available/how much it will be?

And what's a good Z97 mATX board that is dual GPU compatible? Is the ASUS Gryphon Z97 board a good choice?

Edit: Also! Is the 4790k really worth getting over the 4690k?

 

[hooijdonk17]

Should I be worried about this, its been like this for a few months, seems sketchy
Properties and file location are greyed out

format c: /u

 

[Milly79]

What's the cheapest solution to upgrading a 6870? Looking for Sub-$200. Prefer AMD.

 

[eBay Huckster]

What's the cheapest solution to upgrading a 6870? Looking for Sub-$200. Prefer AMD.

if you don't mind paying as close to $200 as possible: the R9 270X

(isn't it basically a 7870 rebrand anyway?)

 

[hooijdonk17]

What's the cheapest solution to upgrading a 6870? Looking for Sub-$200. Prefer AMD.

R9 270X at around $179: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814550031&cm_re=r9_270x-_-14-550-031-_-Product

HOWEVER, newegg also has the 7870 on sale at $135 (with 10% off code, plus $30 rebates if you're into that); it's basically the same card with slightly lower clockspeeds: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131563&cm_re=7870-_-14-131-563-_-Product

If you want better, the next step would be the Radeon 7950 or R9 280 if you find an amazing deal (usually in the $220-$230 range these days I think). If you want to go cheaper, R9 265/270 or 7850 will work.

I think they would all be substantially better, but you'd get the best upgrade out of 7850 and above.

 

[Ashhong]

Hi guys I'm back!

I have the opportunity to get a 2TB Western Digital Green harddrive for ~65$. I know it's a good price, will it be ok for installing games onto and stuff? I will be using it as my main media harddrive next to my SSD. I believe it's 5400RPM, should be fine right?

Mainly upgrading from my 1TB Seagate Barracuda in the hopes that it is way quieter and doesnt vibrate so much

 

[Milly79]

R9 270X at around $179: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814550031&cm_re=r9_270x-_-14-550-031-_-Product

HOWEVER, newegg also has the 7870 on sale at $135 (with 10% off code, plus $30 rebates if you're into that); it's basically the same card with slightly lower clockspeeds: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131563&cm_re=7870-_-14-131-563-_-Product

If you want better, the next step would be the Radeon 7950 or R9 280 if you find an amazing deal (usually in the $220-$230 range these days I think). If you want to go cheaper, R9 265/270 or 7850 will work.

I think they would all be substantially better, but you'd get the best upgrade out of 7850 and above.

Is PowerColor a good brand to go with?

 

[Tablo]

Hi guys I'm back!

I have the opportunity to get a 2TB Western Digital Green harddrive for ~65$. I know it's a good price, will it be ok for installing games onto and stuff? I will be using it as my main media harddrive next to my SSD. I believe it's 5400RPM, should be fine right?

Mainly upgrading from my 1TB Seagate Barracuda in the hopes that it is way quieter and doesnt vibrate so much

Greens kinda, but it'll be fine, just slow. Just hope it doesn't die on you, backup your media.

 

[m3r4]

I have been thinking about putting together my first gaming PC to hook up to my TV (I know, TVs as monitors suck, but it's a space thing). I have no experience whatsoever, but carried out some research in this thread, the internet and got some opinions from a friend and the local electronics store.

Checking through Haz's PC builds in the OP, I would want to go somewhere between the Best Value and Best Overall configuration.

[Basic Desktop Questions]

• Your Current Specs: CPU / RAM / Motherboard / GPU (Graphics) / PSU (Power Supply) / Case / HDD (Hard Drive)
  
  Non existant except for 1TB external hard drive.
  
  
• Budget: Price Range + Country
  
  100.000 Yen / Japan. Parts seem to be a bit more expensive here... I still wouldn't want to go a LOT higher than that.
  
  
• Main Use: Rate 1-5. 5 being Highest: Light Gaming, Gaming, Emulation (PS2/Wii), Video Editing, Streaming games in HD, 3D/Model work (and what program), General Usage (Word, Web, 1080p playback).
  
  Gaming - 5, Video Editing - 2, General Usage - 3
  
  
• Monitor Resolution: What resolution will you be playing your games at? Are you going to upgrade later? Are you buying a new monitor?
  
  I'm planning on linking the PC up to my TV, so 1920x1080
  
  
• List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: Is 30FPS acceptable? 60? 120? How important is PhysX / SuperSampling / CUDA to you?
  
  30 FPS is... not favourable. I have never experienced 120 in my life, so I can't really comment on that right now.
  
  In terms of games... I have no idea yet. Was planning on browsing through Steam and decide spontaneously. I could only give a rough estimate on what genres I would be playing most. Adventure, RPG, Racing, artsy fartsy Indie stuff.
  
  
• Looking to reuse any parts?: List make and model (e.g. Corsair 520HX, 640GB SATA HDD, Antec 900)
  
  Nope.
  
  
• When will you build?: Do you have a deadline?
  
  No deadline.
  
  
• Will you be overclocking?: Yes, No, Maybe (This means yes!)
  
  A friend told me not to... but I expected this to be more or less a given? Am I dumb?

Like I said, I would want to go for the Best Value/Best Overall range. Been looking up parts and trying to compare, but it's a bit much... which is why I am seeking build-your-own-PC-GAF for their counsel.

 

[hooijdonk17]

Is PowerColor a good brand to go with?

I've used their Radeon 8500LE, 9800SE, 9800PRO, HD3850 and HD4850 with no problems whatsoever. I tend to stick with them or Sapphire for ATI cards. YMMV.

 

[Ashhong]

Greens kinda, but it'll be fine, just slow. Just hope it doesn't die on you, backup your media.

Green have high failure rate or something? :O

 

[Renekton]

Green have high failure rate or something? :O

Not much worse than other HDDs AFAIK, it's always tied to RPM and density.

So depends on your luck <_<

 

[20cent]

I'd like to play my games in higher settings, or at least close to 60FPS, thing I can't do anymore since I moved from a sub-1080p to a 2560x1080 display. I also should have an Oculus DK2 coming soon, what do you recommend me to upgrade or wait for?

I don't have a real budget, but I'd rather not change everything if the expected performance gap is not that big.
(not a fanboy, but I'd also prefer to stick with nVidia)

My current specs:

CPU: i7 2700 (non k)
MB: Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3
GPU: GTX 670 2GB
RAM: 8GB

 

[riflen]

I'd like to play my games in higher settings, or at least close to 60FPS, thing I can't do anymore since I moved from a sub-1080p to a 2560x1080 display. I also should have an Oculus DK2 coming soon, what do you recommend me to upgrade or wait for?

I don't have a real budget, but I'd rather not change everything if the expected performance gap is not that big.
(not a fanboy, but I'd also prefer to stick with nVidia)

My current specs:

CPU: i7 2700 (non k)
MB: Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3
GPU: GTX 670 2GB
RAM: 8GB

A GTX 780 should suit you. Bear in mind that no amount of power is enough for Rift, as the higher the frame rate, the better. Your CPU is still decent.

 

[LilJoka]

I'd like to play my games in higher settings, or at least close to 60FPS, thing I can't do anymore since I moved from a sub-1080p to a 2560x1080 display. I also should have an Oculus DK2 coming soon, what do you recommend me to upgrade or wait for?

I don't have a real budget, but I'd rather not change everything if the expected performance gap is not that big.
(not a fanboy, but I'd also prefer to stick with nVidia)

My current specs:

CPU: i7 2700 (non k)
MB: Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3
GPU: GTX 670 2GB
RAM: 8GB

You can overclock your CPU by 4 bins, that will reduce the frame time variance and help in emulators or single threaded games.

 

[20cent]

A GTX 780 should suit you. Bear in mind that no amount of power is enough for Rift, as the higher the frame rate, the better. Your CPU is still decent.

That's what I thought. I'm hesitant between a 780 and 780 Ti, many models to choose from even within a same base and maker. Will look closely which one I should get as I remember that my 670 barely fitted my case.

You can overclock your CPU by 4 bins, that will reduce the frame time variance and help in emulators or single threaded games.

I will also look into this, never OC'ed anything before though...


Thanks!

 

[scogoth]

Green have high failure rate or something? :O

All hard drives are kinda mediocre now. Everyone either stopped making them or stopped making good ones. The best drive is two drives backed up to one another. 5400rpm will be painfully slow for anything other than storing movies and photos, games will load slow but if you have lots of patience I guess its a good deal.

 

[Ashhong]

All hard drives are kinda mediocre now. Everyone either stopped making them or stopped making good ones. The best drive is two drives backed up to one another. 5400rpm will be painfully slow for anything other than storing movies and photos, games will load slow but if you have lots of patience I guess its a good deal.

Damn, making me rethink the 5400. 99% of it's use will be to watch movies, listen to music, etc. Will I notice any kind of slowdown in loading say, a 1080p video? I just realized my current HDD is 7200 RPM..

 

[riflen]

That's what I thought. I'm hesitant between a 780 and 780 Ti, many models to choose from even within a same base and maker. Will look closely which one I should get as I remember that my 670 barely fitted my case.



I will also look into this, never OC'ed anything before though...


Thanks!

If you have the cash, the 780 Ti is worth it in my opinion. It's a complete GK110 GPU with 7Ghz GDDR5, it's as fast as the Titan Black only with 3GB VRAM. It also over clocks like a bastard.

The 780 saves you some money but has cores disabled and 6Ghz GDDR5. It's also a good overclocker too mind you. The GK110 in general has a lot of headroom for that. Both great choices.

 

[riflen]

Damn, making me rethink the 5400. 99% of it's use will be to watch movies, listen to music, etc. Will I notice any kind of slowdown in loading say, a 1080p video? I just realized my current HDD is 7200 RPM..

I doubt you'll notice with the vast majority of workloads. However I would not trust WD greens to last long. They are designed for set top boxes, so their focus is power saving. Do not put anything on there that you care about without having backups on a separate disk.

 

[scogoth]

Damn, making me rethink the 5400. 99% of it's use will be to watch movies, listen to music, etc. Will I notice any kind of slowdown in loading say, a 1080p video? I just realized my current HDD is 7200 RPM..

Naw 1080p video is fine. Just games would be slower. Friend on battlefield has a 5400rpm drive and he loads like 2 minutes after a round as started.

 

[Jeb]

Guys, I'm scared my PC might be having a dust problem and was hoping you could tell me how bad is it and how I could fix it.

Moved recently and the place is really dusty, its been a couple of weeks and some priorities had me too busy from using it, however, when I got back to my PC, it looks really dusty, the insides are pretty dusty as well.

This is the front, that dust protector or what ever it is called didn't look so dusty before.

The insides are getting pretty dusty as well.

The heat sink looks like the worst of the bunch.

If it helps, the PC itself is only a year old and I did not notice these problems until we moved.

I would like to know how this would effect my PC, and how much, I would also would like to know how to handle this.

Thank you, your help is appreciated.

 

[jfoul]

Excellent. Thanks.

Can't wait!



I'll be sure to check mine when it comes in. Thanks for the heads up.

I'm not sure what I want to do with this card. I've tortured the card, and it still runs great. I can return it and continue waiting, or roll the dice and just keep it without a warranty. Hard decision because it runs good, and I doubt I'm going to find another 290X for $330 anytime soon. I guess the plus side from it coming from the U.K, is that it probably wasn't used to mine. Seems everybody else that bought these from Amazon Warehouse have received U.S serial numbers, which is good.

I have a slight glimmer of hope for a warranty. I talked to Gigabyte U.S and they requested the Invoice and picture of the SN. They were really surprised a U.K card was sold in the U.S, and wanted proof. A manager will take a look at it and determine if they will honor a warranty. My only other option would be to contact Gigabyte U.K, and see what my options are. I wonder how the warranty works if somebody bought the card in the U.K and moved to the U.S?

 

[LilJoka]

Once you have installed a new SSD completely. How do you delete the system partition on your old drive so you can use it for data/not have it ask you which you want to use at startup?

Did you make sure the HDD was unplugged during installation? As i get the feeling the original bootloader on the HDD has been used with an additional entry to your SSD boot partition.
Windows does a stupid thing where if it sees an already present bootloader it adds the new installation to it, and doesnt create a bootloader on the new installation HDD. Therefore if you delete or remove the previous HDD, the new install becomes unbootable.

 

[LilJoka]

Guys, I'm scared my PC might be having a dust problem and was hoping you could tell me how bad is it and how I could fix it.

Moved recently and the place is really dusty, its been a couple of weeks and some priorities had me too busy from using it, however, when I got back to my PC, it looks really dusty, the insides are pretty dusty as well.

This is the front, that dust protector or what ever it is called didn't look so dusty before.
The insides are getting pretty dusty as well.
The heat sink looks like the worst of the bunch.
If it helps, the PC itself is only a year old and I did not notice these problems until we moved.

I would like to know how this would effect my PC, and how much, I would also would like to know how to handle this.

Thank you, your help is appreciated.

If it was my PC, that amount of dust means full teardown, clean and rebuild. The dust is caked on most of your parts now, so it will need wiping with a damp cloth to get off (fans and case).
The CPU heatsink, i would fill up the sink and dunk it in some soapy water till its sparkling.
GPU i would remove the heatisnk, use compressed air and some brushes to get clean, apply new thermal paste to the GPU while you're at it.

For the motherboard, GPU board, i usually take a brush and just dust it off, but static discharge etc, so up to you on the risk, otherwise compresses air can get most of it off. Honestly i would actually use a vacuum, again people will tell you not to do this.

Effects - Just hotter temperatures all round. Nothing is going to die just yet.

I react badly to dust, so i keep my stuff dusted as much as possible to prevent the fans throwing dust around the PC and then breathing that in.

 

[lexi]

Air compressor, stat. Hold the fans.

 

[Mascot]

On top of noise, another reason I was thinking of locating my (future) PC in the adjacent room was to keep dust levels down. The office is used maybe 1/20th as much as the game room.

 

[SuperÑ]

Guys, I'm scared my PC might be having a dust problem and was hoping you could tell me how bad is it and how I could fix it.

Moved recently and the place is really dusty, its been a couple of weeks and some priorities had me too busy from using it, however, when I got back to my PC, it looks really dusty, the insides are pretty dusty as well.


If it helps, the PC itself is only a year old and I did not notice these problems until we moved.

I would like to know how this would effect my PC, and how much, I would also would like to know how to handle this.

Thank you, your help is appreciated.

You clean it, that's it. Why even ask here? Just don't use water...

 

[Genio88]

Guys, I'm scared my PC might be having a dust problem and was hoping you could tell me how bad is it and how I could fix it.

Moved recently and the place is really dusty, its been a couple of weeks and some priorities had me too busy from using it, however, when I got back to my PC, it looks really dusty, the insides are pretty dusty as well.

This is the front, that dust protector or what ever it is called didn't look so dusty before.

If it helps, the PC itself is only a year old and I did not notice these problems until we moved.

I would like to know how this would effect my PC, and how much, I would also would like to know how to handle this.

Thank you, your help is appreciated.

You have to clean it that's all, you could use air compressed, remember to hold the fans or you'll break them, or just a dust cloth, remove the fans and clean them well on both sides, and of course clean the front dust filters, and if you could buy and apply some dust filters for the others fan holes that would be better. Last advice, check and clean it at least every 3 month to avoid that again.

 

[sk3tch]

For dust - get this bad boy. Best purchase that I have ever made. Made in the USA too!

http://www.amazon.com/Metro-Vacuum-ED500-500-Watt-Electric/dp/B001J4ZOAW/

 

[Jeb]

Thanks guys for the help, in the cleaning process as we speak, but I'm thinking of running off and getting a duster.

Used a bit of tissue with a hint of water just on the plastic layers of the case , of course I did not use the water on any of the metal or important parts but I did take out the dust protector poured some water and dried the hell out of it.

Got some parts of the case left, the GPU and some fans including the heatsink.


Thanks for all help!

 

[Smokey]

The case that Mkenyon and I have, Corsair Air 540, is on sale at Amazon for $110 and is Prime eligible:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D6GINF4/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Chozolore]

I'm trying to play crisis on my gtx770, however without vysnc it's terrible input lag and with vysnc it snaps to 24hz. It's got plenty of fps without the vysnc, just can't get decent experience. Ideally I'd like it to vysnc at 50hz, not sure why it goes with 24. Tried in game and nvidia control panel. Any ideas?


Sorry if. This not the place.

 

[dmr87]

Haswell-E table.

 

[The_Poet]

I'm trying to play crisis on my gtx770, however without vysnc it's terrible input lag and with vysnc it snaps to 24hz. It's got plenty of fps without the vysnc, just can't get decent experience. Ideally I'd like it to vysnc at 50hz, not sure why it goes with 24. Tried in game and nvidia control panel. Any ideas?


Sorry if. This not the place.

vsync shouldn't add input lag (it should remove it). Other then that I don't really know.

 

[hooijdonk17]

vsync shouldn't add input lag (it should remove it). Other then that I don't really know.

This is wrong I believe, VSync adds input lag because what you see on screen is actually delayed to make sure the previous frame completes rendering. Triple buffering helps, but does not completely eliminate. No Vsync + FPS higher than refreshrate is the best of worlds (FPS locked at a multiple of refresh rate is better).