Support NeoGAF

[RGM79]

I only have 1 680

it was preset to x2 tho

if I run x4 on BIOS will it show proper 16x rather than 8x in GPU-Z?

What he means to ask, is that do you have any other cards plugged into your PCI-E slots besides the GTX 680? Other cards could be using up bandwidth and making your GTX 680's PCI-E slot running in that slower mode.

The option you showed us a photo of has to do with the black PCI-E slot and won't affect your graphics card, which we are guessing is installed in the blue PCI-E slot.

I only have 1 680

it was preset to x2 tho

if I run x4 on BIOS will it show proper 16x rather than 8x in GPU-Z?

that's all I see regarding PCI on my BIOS

I guess i'll try tho

is a 680 even gettin affected performance-wise between 8x or 16x?

According to GPU-Z, your graphics card's PCI-E slot is only running at PCI-E version 1.1 @ x8. That's 2GB/s bandwidth. If it were running at the full speed of PCI-E 2.0 @ x16, then it'd have 8GB/s bandwidth. The slot is only running at 25% of its full speed, and I'd think I can call that a bottleneck.

Something's going on here, but it's hard to say what's causing it to run at the slower speed without more information.

 

[EatChildren]

Anybody got a recommendation for software to test line stability? My connection is shit anyway, but I'd like to check how stable data transmission is over about an hour or two.

 

[RGM79]

Anybody got a recommendation for software to test line stability? My connection is shit anyway, but I'd like to check how stable data transmission is over about an hour or two.

What kind of stability? Latency and ping, or speed and bandwidth?

I'm extremely new to doing research on PC's (it'll be my first build). I would need to save up some money for a few weeks to have the budget I'd like to use for it. So I want to know is is it worth going for it as soon as I can or is there a certain time when new stuff is out probably next year? And if so, would it be comparably priced. Basically is it better to wait or jump in?

Edit: Oh, my goal is to be able to play games at pretty high settings (excited for Fallout 4 and finally getting Witcher 3) but I would also use it to do multimedia work (editing video and photos). So looking at the quick chart in the OP, looks like I would fall into the Enthusiast category.

We've just had a bunch of new stuff (Intel Skylake processors and new motherboards, AMD's R9 3XX line, Nvidia's high end GTX 980 Ti and Titan X, etc) be announced and released in the last couple of months. Now's a decent time to buy, new graphics cards and processors and motherboards won't be arriving for around a year or so.

Come back with a budget closer to the time that you want to buy and build parts, and we'll gladly recommend a parts list to you.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

DisplayPort to VGA adapter $60 leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel

Legacy tech compatibility is sure expensive.

 

[RGM79]

DisplayPort to VGA adapter $60 leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel

Legacy tech compatibility is sure expensive.

Well.. apparently there are passive displayport to VGA adaptors, which are fairly cheap. They require the source graphics card to be able to output an analog signal via the displayport connector, though.

I'm a bit confused about this as well.. and I can't find a clear answer. I'm probably not the best person to help you on this. I'm almost certain that plugging two adaptors into each other (DP to DVI then DVI to VGA) will most likely not work.. but if you already have them on hand, it wouldn't hurt to try.

Edit: Wait, I have those two adaptors on hand and a GTX 980 Ti. I can test it out for you.

Final edit: No need to try. They won't even fit into each other. My DP to DVI adaptor is this type, note that it has the wide slot on the DVI side but not the four holes next to the slot. All of my DVI to VGA adaptors require those 4 holes above and below the wide slot.

 

[EatChildren]

What kind of stability? Latency and ping, or speed and bandwidth?

Latency and ping mostly. Variations in speed would be nice too.

 

[bloodyroarxx]

Ok hopefully I explain this well enough and you can help me.

Ok so I have a PC (a) and I had upgraded to Windows 10 from 7 then because of a hardware failure (Video card died and I had to use my onboard video) I had to revert to Windows 7 cause the drivers for the onboard stuff do not support Windows 10

Now I have just bought a new rig (b) what is the process of getting Windows 10 on this new PC (b) using my existing Windows 7 license.

 

[RGM79]

Latency and ping mostly. Variations in speed would be nice too.

A few weeks ago when my internet connection was extremely unstable in regards to latency, the simplest test was for me to open a command prompt and run the following command:

ping 8.8.8.8 -t​

That will ping the 8.8.8.8 IP address which is Google's DNS server. It should always be online and offer the best possible pingtimes. the "-t" part means that it will continuously ping the address specified until you close the window or hit Ctrl+C to tell it to stop. Here's how it looks for me:

As for speed.. I'm not sure. To measure speed, you'd have to be downloading (and/or uploading) something, that would slow you down for anything else you might be doing and is probably not something you want to be continously checking. Checking ping is fine though, that barely takes up any bandwidth and Google's DNS server has to respond to who knows how many billions of requests already. I kept the command prompt window open in the background to keep an eye on when ping was good or bad.

Ok hopefully I explain this well enough and you can help me.

Ok so I have a PC (a) and I had upgraded to Windows 10 from 7 then because of a hardware failure (Video card died and I had to use my onboard video) I had to revert to Windows 7 cause the drivers for the onboard stuff do not support Windows 10

Now I have just bought a new rig (b) what is the process of getting Windows 10 on this new PC (b) using my existing Windows 7 license.

You already did the Windows 7 to Windows 10 upgrade and Windows 10 was activated? That license of Windows 10 is tied to your old PC's hardware. You don't get to use one license of Windows on more than one PC, unfortunately.

If you want to know, there are cheap ways to get licenses for Windows 10 that you can activate.

 

[RayStorm]

According to GPU-Z, your graphics card's PCI-E slot is only running at PCI-E version 1.1 @ x8. That's 2GB/s bandwidth. If it were running at the full speed of PCI-E 2.0 @ x16, then it'd have 8GB/s bandwidth. The slot is only running at 25% of its full speed, and I'd think I can call that a bottleneck.

In reality though, the difference is MUCH smaller than you would think.

 

[NegativeCero]

Edit: my question was answered

 

[Shining Sunshine]

omfg I hate win 8 so much.

someone tell me how to give myself permission to do everything on this stupid OS

I can't even make a text file

 

[Firebrand]

omfg I hate win 8 so much.

someone tell me how to give myself permission to do everything on this stupid OS

I can't even make a text file

Text file where? Are you on an administrator account?

 

[JimPanzer]

Even if it looks similar, it probably isn't the same model if it doesn't have the same markings. Try another card reader.

It really was the card reader. Thanks for your help!

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Text file where? Are you on an administrator account?

Yeah, I'm admin.

Program Files (x86)

It's this stupid file/folder permission crap I had to deal with on my Ultrabook. I don't even remember how to solve it. I just fucking hate Win8 and any new Windows shit Microsoft comes up with.
Like I'm the only fucking user with admin access on the PC. Give me goddamn access to everything!

 

[DPB]

I have a weird question

I never bothered much lookin at PCI stuff bus interface yadda yadda when I put together this PC on this mobo

recently launched gpu-z and realized this

supports 16x, running at 8x

Click the blue question mark and try running the render test, that'll give you the proper PCIE speed.

Quoting GPU-Z:

"Modern graphics cards come with extensive power saving features. One of these functions reduces the PCI-Express link speed & width to lower levels to conserve power when the card is idle. This is why you might see undesired values in GPU-Z's Bus Interface readout."

 

[mjontrix]

I'm extremely new to doing research on PC's (it'll be my first build). I would need to save up some money for a few weeks to have the budget I'd like to use for it. So I want to know is is it worth going for it as soon as I can or is there a certain time when new stuff is out probably next year? And if so, would it be comparably priced. Basically is it better to wait or jump in?

Edit: Oh, my goal is to be able to play games at pretty high settings (excited for Fallout 4 and finally getting Witcher 3) but I would also use it to do multimedia work (editing video and photos). So looking at the quick chart in the OP, looks like I would fall into the Enthusiast category.

Next year. Buy cheap haswell xeon and x99 when everyone upgrades to kabylake and skylake xeons replace the rest of the xeon haswells.

Youll be able to get the massive L3 cache monsters with god knows how many cores on the cheap by then, which will make big difference for multimedia work, and ddr4 would be much cheaper and higher capacity. Youll be using ecc ram of course and if it ends up cheap enough then you should buy enough to setup a ramdisk .

Id save up 2K or so, more if you can since it'll bump up your ram/cpu.

Youll end up buying a used titan x / 980 (which hopefully will be cheap enough) unless theres some spectacular pascal gpu with excellent fp64 - its CUDA for you!

 

[EatChildren]

A few weeks ago when my internet connection was extremely unstable in regards to latency, the simplest test was for me to open a command prompt and run the following command:

ping 8.8.8.8 -t​

That will ping the 8.8.8.8 IP address which is Google's DNS server. It should always be online and offer the best possible pingtimes. the "-t" part means that it will continuously ping the address specified until you close the window or hit Ctrl+C to tell it to stop. Here's how it looks for me.

Beautiful. Cheers man. Just getting a lot of weird instability and packet losses on Battlefield 4 regardless of the server I play on. Want a way to test connection stability to see if it's the game / shitty AU servers, or a problem on my end.

 

[Mohasus]

Yeah, I'm admin.

Program Files (x86)

It's this stupid file/folder permission crap I had to deal with on my Ultrabook. I don't even remember how to solve it. I just fucking hate Win8 and any new Windows shit Microsoft comes up with.
Like I'm the only fucking user with admin access on the PC. Give me goddamn access to everything!

press the windows key, type uac (user account control), change it to never notify.

 

[Barajas_201]

I've dealt with those small form factor PCs at work. As I recall, the strongest low profile graphics card you can get is a GTX 750 Ti. Gigabyte offers one in the GV-N75TOC-2GL (link goes to Amazon search). MSI also has their N750ti-2GD5TLP (link goes to Amazon product listing). There's also this Zotac ZT-70702-10M model (Amazon product listing).

There are other solutions like certain low profile AMD R7 250 cards, but I'd be wary about the power consumption. The GTX 750 Ti is almost guaranteed to work with your power supply, I'd say. This PCPer article proves that the power consumption is low enough for your PC's proprietary power supply to handle the GTX 750 Ti. Each PC ended up drawing well under 200 watts total.

The Gigabyte link showed many GPUs, is this one the 750 ti? Would it fit in my case? Thank your for the article, it was really informative.

 

[KimonoNoNo]

I've just picked up a 3gb 580 of ebay to replace my 560.

I've got the latest drivers installed (355.82) can I just plop in my new card into my PC, or do I have to uninstall the drivers first?

 

[Have a Nice Day]

Beautiful. Cheers man. Just getting a lot of weird instability and packet losses on Battlefield 4 regardless of the server I play on. Want a way to test connection stability to see if it's the game / shitty AU servers, or a problem on my end.

To make sure your readings are accurate, you should try to ping IP locations that are:

1- Close to where you live.
2- Hosted on stable servers.

A good idea is to ping your ISP's DNS servers since they're usually close to you and are stable. A command like "ping [insert ip location] -n 60" will ping the ip every 1 second for a minute.

 

[JoeyJungle]

PROTIP for anyone else just missing a 6700k: What I did was order a combo, and then returned the mobo unopened. Got a full refund (minus the discount from the combo), no restocking fee. I think you need to return it within 30 days of receiving it to get the full refund, and it MUST be unopened.

Their policy is here: http://kb.newegg.com/FAQ/Article/1755 They have several different pages for returns that are somewhat contradicting, but returning within 30 days from receiving it + product unopened seems to be the requirement for a 100% refund.

 

[RGM79]

In reality though, the difference is MUCH smaller than you would think.

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Intel/Ivy_Bridge_PCI-Express_Scaling/images/perfrel.gif

I'd still consider a 12% performance drop to be bottlenecking. Might mean the difference between being able to run a game at a higher setting or being able to reliably achieve a certain framerate well at a certain graphical quality. Sorry to nitpick, but I didn't say it'd be a massive performance loss, just that "I'd think I can call that a bottleneck".

Thank you for the link to the GTX 680 benchmarks, though. I wasn't able to find a proper set of relevant benchmarks.

The Gigabyte link showed many GPUs, is this one the 750 ti? Would it fit in my case? Thank your for the article, it was really informative.

Yes, I know the Gigabyte link showed a few different ones. For some reason there's multiple Amazon listings for the GV-N750OC-2GL graphics card. Yes, the one you linked to is one of them.

I think it should fit in your case, the Amazon questions section mentions that the smaller metal end bracket is included. You just need to use that to fit it into your PC.

I've just picked up a 3gb 580 of ebay to replace my 560.

I've got the latest drivers installed (355.82) can I just plop in my new card into my PC, or do I have to uninstall the drivers first?

You'll be fine, no need to uninstall. They both use the same drivers.

 

[Barajas_201]

Yes, I know the Gigabyte link showed a few different ones. For some reason there's multiple Amazon listings for the GV-N750OC-2GL graphics card. Yes, the one you linked to is one of them.

I think it should fit in your case, the Amazon questions section mentions that the smaller metal end bracket is included. You just need to use that to fit it into your PC.

Alright thanks! I hope the installation goes smoothly. Does it matter what OS I have? My OS is Windows 10 32-bit.

 

[Salsa]

Click the blue question mark and try running the render test, that'll give you the proper PCIE speed.

Quoting GPU-Z:

"Modern graphics cards come with extensive power saving features. One of these functions reduces the PCI-Express link speed & width to lower levels to conserve power when the card is idle. This is why you might see undesired values in GPU-Z's Bus Interface readout."

just changes from 1.1 to 2.0

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Welp, whatever shit I tried last night to give me access to these folders made a bunch of programs dissappear overnight including chrome and IE. What the fuck happened?

press the windows key, type uac (user account control), change it to never notify.

That's not it. I have no write access to program files folder.

 

[RGM79]

Alright thanks! I hope the installation goes smoothly. Does it matter what OS I have? My OS is Windows 10 32-bit.

No, it's fine. That should be just fine.

 

[Headsteyker]

Guys what is the program used during gaming to show CPU,GPU temp and usage?

 

[Kezen]

Guys what is the program used during gaming to show CPU,GPU temp and usage?

MSI Afterburner :
http://gaming.msi.com/fr/features/afterburner

 

[KimonoNoNo]

You'll be fine, no need to uninstall. They both use the same drivers.

Coolio.

Thought that was the case, but better check first.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

I need recommendations for an extra hard drive, it will be used mainly to store recorded TV, no gaming. Currently I have a 500GB WD Blue installed which was already a little low in storage before I started recording TV and now it's quickly running out. I'm leaning towards the WD Green http://www.amazon.com/Green-1TB-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B006GDVREI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1442604028&sr=8-2&keywords=wd+green. I may also need a new sata power power cable, the one I have now does allow for multiple hard drives but I the way my case is set up I will need to move my optical drive down a slot to be able to connect both hard drives, to do so it will pretty much require me to take my entire pc apart just to be able to remove the optical drive. Thanks in advance.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I can't even... I had to reformat my PC to fix these issues.

A few programs won't run, uninstall, or reinstall because Windows says "program already installed" and "files are missing" and "can't uninstall because can't find files".

How does anyone use this shitshow Win8 or 8.1.

 

[Najaf]

What is the consensus on best 802.11 AC router out today or releasing later this year?

Time for me to upgrade my home network.

 

[CreepingFear]

This is a picture of me waiting for the 6700k to be available.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

This is a picture of me waiting for the 6700k to be available.

Hahaha

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Alright, here's the issue I'm getting.

I've tried the solutions from here: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...t/2aed6083-b986-4423-90bb-986749bc236b?auth=1

Which didn't work. It is able to change permissions, but for certain folders, it'll say it can't.

Then I tried this command line solution that I found using icacls or some shit. Completely wrecked my PC.

Does anyone know of a no-frills way of getting rid of this permission shit?

 

[RGM79]

Alright, here's the issue I'm getting.

I've tried the solutions from here: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...t/2aed6083-b986-4423-90bb-986749bc236b?auth=1

Which didn't work. It is able to change permissions, but for certain folders, it'll say it can't.

Then I tried this command line solution that I found using icacls or some shit. Completely wrecked my PC.

Does anyone know of a no-frills way of getting rid of this permission shit?

I have no idea why you would even run into issues like this. This is a fresh install of Windows 8.1?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I have no idea why you would even run into issues like this. This is a fresh install of Windows 8.1?

Yeah, it's fresh.

It has to do with Microsoft locking away "important folders" to prevent viruses from spreading, even if you're admin.

 

[MogCakes]

I have an HP wired mouse that I've been using for some years, I connected it to my win8.1 machine today and it doesn't work. It worked with windows 8. I've checked its driver and it dates back to 2006. HP has stated they don't release driver updates for their devices - am I out of luck in using this mouse? I have a couple other mice that are wireless, but this is my favorite mouse.

I should mention this mouse works with my laptops that are on win7 so the problem is most likely compatibility.

 

[brentech]

My 6700k just arrived today and I'm currently installing basic motherboard drivers.

Curious while I wait, for windows 10, do any of the CPU usage/temps like CoreTemp currently work?

 

[Woorloog]

I may be getting a gaming PC soonish. My current laptop has issues with even somewhat older games games, and an overheating problem. I reckon i'll get a cheap, light and small laptop for mobile web use later to accompany a gaming PC as this current one is a tad big for that.

Anyway, i'm not sure about what i will need, what i'm looking for, as i've never had a proper gaming PC before. EDIT Like, what's the closest build from the OP what might be good fit for me?

Answering most questions from the OP:
Budget: Max 1500€-1750€? Lower is better, of course, but i'm willing to spend more if that mean's i don't have to consider any upgrades anytime soon. Country is Finland, so even lesser machines will be more expensive compared to NA prices.
Main Use: Gaming primarily, general usage.
Monitor Resolution: 1080p/60HZ? I don't think i'll care about anything higher, i'm more likely to turn effects higher than be concerned about IQ as long as i can play on native resolution. Also not sure i'll like even 1080p for general use, things like text start getting awfully small for me.
When will you build?: No deadline, though ideally i'd like to have a machine ready by the time Starcraft II Legacy of the Void is launched.
Will you be overclocking?: Nope. Not going to mess with stuff that may cause problems as i tend to have problems with computers enough as it is. Though being able to do that once the hardware starts to age is probably a bonus, before getting an upgrade?
List SPECIFIC games or applications that you MUST be able to run well: Most likely i'm looking to playing at 60FPS at 1080p, with focus on effects and other eye-candy. Depending on the game, 30FPS is acceptable, provided i can cap the game there as i detest uneven/unlocked framerates. Unlikely to be interested in the other stuff asked.
Older games: MechWarrior Online, Starcraft 2, Civ V, Skyrim, WoW, EVE Online, Dota 2, Wolfenstein New Order (finally).
Newer games, none are guarantees: Star Wars Battlefront, Fallout 4, Doom 4, Battlefleet Gothic: Armada (UE4 game, RTS), Halo Wars 2, XCOM 2

I'm likely to get a joystick as there are some older (space) flight sims i want to play. Any recommendations? Is HOTAS system recommended?
(Oh, and are there any good, newer (combat) flight sims? Space or air. Not interested in Eliteangerous and Star Citizen because reasons.)


A friend of mine recommends investing in a better CPU right away, as GPU is easier/possible to upgrade later if necessary. Reasonable?


Is Linux gaming feasible yet, or with the games i've listed? I have some reservations about Microsoft systems for various reasons, not to mention the extra expense the OS adds. Do note there are many older (even over a decade) games i'm likely to play.

 

[knitoe]

Yeah, it's fresh.

It has to do with Microsoft locking away "important folders" to prevent viruses from spreading, even if you're admin.

Seems like something is wrong with your Windows installation. Try upgrading to Win 10 or do a fresh install again. If weird issues still persist, run at stock speeds if overlocking and check your hardware, look first specifically at ram and storage drive.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Seems like something is wrong with your Windows installation. Try upgrading to Win 10 or do a fresh install again. If weird issues still persist, run at stock speeds if overlocking and check your hardware, look first specifically at ram and storage drive.

Uh... what does overclocking have to do with folder access?

 

[RGM79]

Yeah, it's fresh.

It has to do with Microsoft locking away "important folders" to prevent viruses from spreading, even if you're admin.

I just tested it and I get the same thing on Windows 10. I've never had to save files directly to protected locations, though, so that explains why I never ran into that wall.

I can move files there no problem, though. For whatever reason that you need to save files to protected locations, you'll be forced to do an extra step or two by saving them elsewhere and then moving it to the protected location.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I just tested it and I get the same thing on Windows 10. I've never had to save files directly to protected locations, though, so that explains why I never ran into that wall.

I can move files there no problem, though. For whatever reason that you need to save files to protected locations, you'll be forced to do an extra step or two by saving them elsewhere and then moving it to the protected location.

Yeah, sounds like the only work around is to install everything outside of program files.

It's such a stupid system Microsoft put up.

 

[insane0hflex]

...

Anyway, i'm not sure about what i will need, what i'm looking for, as i've never had a proper gaming PC before. EDIT Like, what's the closest build from the OP what might be good fit for me?

...


A friend of mine recommends investing in a better CPU right away, as GPU is easier/possible to upgrade later if necessary. Reasonable?


...

Have you built a computer before?

I pretty much followed the "Excellent - Best Overall" build from OP - and it is awesome. I can play the Witcher 3 at almost always 60 FPS on Ultra graphics (No Hairworks) at 1080p. The GTX 970 is a great card for the value.

Of course, I'm not sure how much the prices are for parts in your country, but if you can get parts from the next column (Enthusiast - Nice Things), or the next column, its a good idea. 1500 pounds is about 2.3k USD right? So yeah you have tons of money to buy parts for an epic PC.

Yeah I'd get a i5 4690 (i5 4690K if you plan to overclock) or the Skylake (i5 6600k)
ASAP. The i5's are a bit more budget friendly, but since you got money I'd say get the i7 4790k or the new Skylake i7 6700k.

A desktop CPU is such a huge upgrade from laptop CPUs it'll knock your socks off! Once you got one of those, poor the rest of the money into a better GPU if you can (ie upgrade from GTX 970 to 980 or 980ti)

 

[thematic]

Alright, here's the issue I'm getting.

I've tried the solutions from here: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...t/2aed6083-b986-4423-90bb-986749bc236b?auth=1

Which didn't work. It is able to change permissions, but for certain folders, it'll say it can't.

Then I tried this command line solution that I found using icacls or some shit. Completely wrecked my PC.

Does anyone know of a no-frills way of getting rid of this permission shit?

are you saving from Notepad or similar app?
try run the app as administrator

there's higher level in Windows 7/up
even though you're an Admin, you need to launch the app as Admin to write into "restricted" location

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Are there any cons of reusing a 1000W PSU (as opposed to buying a new one with less wattage) for a Micro ATX build? (case would be a Corsair Air 240)

 

[RGM79]

Yeah, sounds like the only work around is to install everything outside of program files.

It's such a stupid system Microsoft put up.

It's preventing you from installing programs, though? It doesn't do that for me, so that much we know is definitely wrong. It shouldn't do that.

Are there any cons of reusing a 1000W PSU (as opposed to buying a new one with less wattage) for a Micro ATX build? (case would be a Corsair Air 240)

Not that I know of. The Air 240's dual chamber design has more than enough room for larger than usual power supplies.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Thanks