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"I Need a New PC!" 2017 The Ryzing of Kaby Lake and NVMwhee!

R

Ragnorok64

Member
So like 3 years ago I threw together a budget steaming build for ~$600 with the expectation that I would upgrade it as time went on. I've since doubled the ram, migrated my boot drive to a 750gb SSD, and switched the video card from a 2gb 750 to a 4gb 1050ti.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tX6xm8

Looking at what I put in it, though, I think i might be at the end of a relatively budget upgrade path. My thought was that I could put the equivalent generation's i7 into the rig and buy a Cryorig c7 to replace the stock heatsink that's still in there. I didn't anticipate that 3 year old i7s would still be selling for $220+. Additionally, it seems I skimped in the wrong place when I got an H97 mobo instead of a Z97(?) so even if I did get my hands on a 4770K i wouldn't get full benefit from it.

So I don't really know what viable upgrade paths there are for this box. Getting my hands on a mini ITX Z97 board, and a 4770K seems more expensive than it'd be worth? Alternatively, a Ryzen 5 seems like it'd be an attractive option but then I'd have to get DDR4 ram (and I believe ram prices are spiking right now). Also AM4 mini ITX boards don't seem to exist right now.

Are there any obvious upgrades I'm overlooking, or would I have to drop significant $ to improve this box right now?
 
R

rtcn63

Member
Vulcano's assistant said:
I think they are overpriced compared to, say buying one of those $600 Acer Desktops for the office or home that come with a i5 7400.
Click to expand...

I do not disagree. I actually bought a barebones and set it up for someone once. I wouldn't again.

Protip: Don't buy/build PC's for people unless you plan on being their 24/7 tech support. There's a reason Dell and co exist.
 
I

IC5

Member
Ragnorok64 said:
So like 3 years ago I threw together a budget steaming build for ~$600 with the expectation that I would upgrade it as time went on. I've since doubled the ram, migrated my boot drive to a 750gb SSD, and switched the video card from a 2gb 750 to a 4gb 1050ti.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tX6xm8

Looking at what I put in it, though, I think i might be at the end of a relatively budget upgrade path. My thought was that I could put the equivalent generation's i7 into the rig and buy a Cryorig c7 to replace the stock heatsink that's still in there. I didn't anticipate that 3 year old i7s would still be selling for $220+. Additionally, it seems I skimped in the wrong place when I got an H97 mobo instead of a Z97(?) so even if I did get my hands on a 4770K i wouldn't get full benefit from it.

So I don't really know what viable upgrade paths there are for this box. Getting my hands on a mini ITX Z97 board, and a 4770K seems more expensive than it'd be worth? Alternatively, a Ryzen 5 seems like it'd be an attractive option but then I'd have to get DDR4 ram (and I believe ram prices are spiking right now). Also AM4 mini ITX boards don't seem to exist right now.

Are there any obvious upgrades I'm overlooking, or would I have to drop significant $ to improve this box right now?
Click to expand...
Are you part of any computer forums with a classifieds? Make an open offer to anyone with a 4790k. Or a 4770k. You might get a bite.
 
K

kuYuri

Member
Ragnorok64 said:
So like 3 years ago I threw together a budget steaming build for ~$600 with the expectation that I would upgrade it as time went on. I've since doubled the ram, migrated my boot drive to a 750gb SSD, and switched the video card from a 2gb 750 to a 4gb 1050ti.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/tX6xm8

Looking at what I put in it, though, I think i might be at the end of a relatively budget upgrade path. My thought was that I could put the equivalent generation's i7 into the rig and buy a Cryorig c7 to replace the stock heatsink that's still in there. I didn't anticipate that 3 year old i7s would still be selling for $220+. Additionally, it seems I skimped in the wrong place when I got an H97 mobo instead of a Z97(?) so even if I did get my hands on a 4770K i wouldn't get full benefit from it.

So I don't really know what viable upgrade paths there are for this box. Getting my hands on a mini ITX Z97 board, and a 4770K seems more expensive than it'd be worth? Alternatively, a Ryzen 5 seems like it'd be an attractive option but then I'd have to get DDR4 ram (and I believe ram prices are spiking right now). Also AM4 mini ITX boards don't seem to exist right now.

Are there any obvious upgrades I'm overlooking, or would I have to drop significant $ to improve this box right now?
Click to expand...

Last I checked, finding a mITX Z97 mobo is difficult unless you're willing to go used by scouring eBay or CL, they are incredibly rare now. You might get lucky and find a good deal, but you'd have to do some digging.
 
O

Ostinatto

Member
A friend told me that if i'm gonna buy a i7 7700k and not doing OC, I really dont need a Z270 motherboard, what you guys think?

What non Z270, ASUS motherboards can i go to? ( i love ASUS)
 
D

dr_mario

Member
ISee said:
4GB of vram is still enough for 1080p, but taking something with more is preferable. Performance wise this 480 is about as fast as a 580 (non oc) and certainly a good deal for that price.
Click to expand...

The 480 in sale is also 4gb. I dont wanna go 4k, so good HD gaming is enough for me. Although at some point in my life I would love VR.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
samar11 said:
There has been a few cpus out lately since my last purchase (i7 5930k), any point or am I good for a bit longer?
Click to expand...

If you're riding an i7-k from the last five years or so, you're mostly good. The 2600k Sandy Bridge is still comparable to (and at times even bests) modern i5's in gaming.
 
S

samar11

Member
rtcn63 said:
Maybe, but likely not enough to be an issue for you to require an upgrade just yet. (At least at 1080p/60fps)
Click to expand...

Well I play at 2k and max settings with games these days.

I did do a youtube to see other cpus (6700, 7700) with my graphics card and their getting similar fps as me.

Playing Prey at the moment, everything maxed out at 2k with 144fps.(capped)

I guess that answers my question lol
 
ISee

ISee

Member
Ostinatto said:
A friend told me that if i'm gonna buy a i7 7700k and not doing OC, I really dont need a Z270 motherboard, what you guys think?

What non Z270, ASUS motherboards can i go to? ( i love ASUS)
Click to expand...

In general the h270 chipset has 4 less pci-e lanes, no OC features, no sli support and no ddr4 support for anything above ddr4 2400.

Asus has 4 main prime z270 atx boards. The prime z270 ar is the costly high end series with top of the line features like a high quality on board sound card (the Realtek S1220A, really good!) and usb 3.1 support with up to 10GB/s. The z270 A is similar to the ar model and is their upper middle class variant. It still has usb 3.1 10GB/so support and the Realtek S1220A sound chip.
The P and K models have the standard Realtek ALC887 sound chip but slower usb 3.1 ports. only 5GB/s for the K model and just usb 3.0 for the p model. All of them have intel optane support and two m2.ssd slots.

The two main h270 atx models are the Pro and the Plus. Both are very similar but the pro has usb 3.1 10GB/s support and the Plus has no usb 3.1 at all.

Normally a z270 is only nessacary if you plan to OC a K processor or if you want to use ram above 2400 mhz. As you don't plan to oc I'd even skip the 7700k and only take the 7700. The prime a and prime ar on board sound cards are great but won't help you if you use an usb headset or another sound device.


Just in case you wonder:
I recently went for the z270 A and did some research beforehand. I am also surprised how good the on board sound is and for the first time I don't feel the need to use my soundblaster X-FI card. It is a noticeable step up from the normal Realtek ALC887 chip used on most Mainboards. I also like the reinforced pci-e slots. Probably unnecessary but I fell better using a huge and heavy gpu now.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
ISee said:
Normally a z270 is only nessacary if you plan to OC a K processor or if you want to use ram above 2400 mhz. As you don't plan to oc I'd even skip the 7700k and only take the 7700. The prime a and prime ar on board sound cards are great but won't help you if you use an usb headset or another sound device.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd probably consider a z270 with a 7700 for the higher ram speed support alone. More and more benchmarks are showing the (depending on the game, significant) FPS benefits of higher speeds, especially if you plan on keeping the CPU + mobo + ram for a period of generations.

And 3000/3200MHz DDR4 is like what, $10 more expensive than 2400MHz for a 2x8GB set?
 
O

Ostinatto

Member
ISee said:
In general the h270 chipset has 4 less pci-e lanes, no OC features, no sli support and no ddr4 support for anything above ddr4 2400.

Asus has 4 main prime z270 atx boards. The prime z270 ar is the costly high end series with top of the line features like a high quality on board sound card (the Realtek S1220A, really good!) and usb 3.1 support with up to 10GB/s. The z270 A is similar to the ar model and is their upper middle class variant. It still has usb 3.1 10GB/so support and the Realtek S1220A sound chip.
The P and K models have the standard Realtek ALC887 sound chip but slower usb 3.1 ports. only 5GB/s for the K model and just usb 3.0 speed for the pc model. All of them have intel octane support and two m2.ssd slots.

The two main h270 atx models are the Pro and the Plus. Both are very similar but the pro has usb 3.1 10GB/s support and the Plus has no usb 3.1 at all.

Normally a z270 is only nessacary if you plan to OC a K processor or if you want to use ram above 2400 mhz. As you don't plan to oc I'd even skip the 7700k and only take the 7700. The prime a and prime ar on board sound cards are great but won't help you if you use an usb headset or another sound device.


Just in case you wonder:
I recently went for the z270 A and did some research beforehand. I am also surprised how good the on board sound is and for the first time I don't feel the need to use my soundblaster X-FI card. It is a noticeable step up from the normal Realtek ALC887 chip used on most Mainboards. I also like the reinforced pci-e slots. Probably unnecessary but I fell better using a huge and heavy gpu now.
Click to expand...

Great info.

i'm planning on going 16gb ram 3200 mhz, if i do that im bound to a Z270 mobo?
 
ISee

ISee

Member
rtcn63 said:
Yeah, I'd probably consider a z270 with a 7700 for the higher ram speed support alone. More and more benchmarks are showing the (depending on the game, significant) benefits of higher speeds, especially if you plan on keeping the CPU + mobo + ram for a period of generations.

And 3000/3200MHz DDR4 is like what, $10 more expensive than 2400MHz for a 2x8GB set?
Click to expand...


For performance? Sure, I would even go the extra mile to get the 7700k than.
But MB price/performance is also a factor for many people.
For example the h270 pro has 10GB/s usb 3.1 support and the z270 k has only 5GB/s and the z270 p has no usb 3.1 at all. So if you for example want to have full 3.1 support you either have to take the h270-pro or at least the z270-a.
I think I gave 'op' enough information for him to make his own decision. I even mentioned different ddr4 speed supports.


Ostinatto said:
Great info.

i'm planning on going 16gb ram 3200 mhz, if i do that im bound to a Z270 mobo?
Click to expand...

If you want better usb 3.1 support and/or the better on board sound. Yes. But I'd really consider to also take the i7 k model than and to give it maybe an extra 100mhz, just because you can :)
 
R

rtcn63

Member
ISee said:
For performance? Sure, I would even go the extra mile to get the 7700k than.
But MB price/performance is also a factor for many people.
For example the h270 pro has 10GB/s usb 3.1 support and the z270 k has only 5GB/s and the z270 p has no usb 3.1 at all. So if you for example want to have full 3.1 support you either have to take the h270-pro or at least the z270-a.
I think I gave 'op' enough information for him to make his own decision. I even mentioned different ddr4 speed supports.
Click to expand...

True, probably not worth it if the cost of the Z board over a comparable H board (if it exists) is too much, considering you're only looking at a "small if decent chance" of noticeably better performance in some games in the present and future.

And yeah, the K model does boost to a higher clock rate than the regular 7700. I've seen the K go on sale for $300 a few times, not a terrible deal at that price point. (Delidding kits aside)
 
ISee

ISee

Member
rtcn63 said:
True, probably not worth it if the cost of the Z board over a comparable H board (if it exists) is too much, considering you're only looking at a "small if decent chance" of noticeably better performance in some games in the present and future.

And yeah, the K model does boost to a higher clock rate than the regular 7700. I've seen the K go on sale for $300 a few times, not a terrible deal at that price point. (Delidding kits aside)
Click to expand...

$300 for a 7700k seems like a good deal. They still cost ~380€ over here. It's like ryzen does not even exist.

The 7700k oc fiasco. I guess I am lucky. My 7700k only reaches 72°C during prime95 (version 26.6 to be fair) testing at 4.8 ghz and I had to delide my 6700k with a razerblade to reach 4.8 ghz. And kabylake is just a refreshed skylake (more or less) with a higher base/boost clock speed. I never understood why people expected kabylake to reach much higher clock speeds than skylake in the first place.

(Please don't ask why I 'upgraded' from sky- to kabylake. It has something to do with someone dropping his pc while moving. Rumors also indicate the involvement of a staircase)
 
R

rtcn63

Member
ISee said:
(Please don't ask why I 'upgraded' from sky- to kabylake. It has something to do with someone dropping his pc while moving. Rumors also indicate the involvement of a staircase)
Click to expand...

See that's why I bought a heavy-ass mid-tower, so I never get the urge to move it around. Hell mine is placed on the floor, which does not actually make replacing things easy, er...

I think that the volatile (?) nature of PC gaming is what causes people to stumble. Seemingly not that long ago, you'd need to buy a new CPU or GPU every few years just to be able to boot new games at all, let alone run them at playable framerates. (I remember as a kid, not being able to play stuff because my card didn't support the latest shader revision on like a hardware level)

But seasons change.

And in the modern era, you have written and visual mediums, sources both reputable and not, where you can see the actual performance and compatibility of specific pieces of hardware and software. I can look at five different charts from five different places and gauge with accuracy how my four-year-old i5 rig will fare in recent games.

It's rare to see people recommending something absurdly high like a 1000w for a single-GPU setup anymore, for example.
 
ISee

ISee

Member
rtcn63 said:
See that's why I bought a heavy-ass mid-tower, so I never get the urge to move it around. Hell mine is placed on the floor, which does not actually make replacing things easy, er...

I think that the volatile (?) nature of PC gaming is what causes people to stumble. Seemingly not that long ago, you'd need to buy a new CPU or GPU every few years just to be able to boot new games at all, let alone run them at playable framerates. (I remember as a kid, not being able to play stuff because my card didn't support the latest shader revision on like a hardware level)

But seasons change.

And in the modern era, you have written and visual mediums, sources both reputable and not, where you can see the actual performance and compatibility of specific pieces of hardware and software. I can look at five different charts from five different places and gauge with accuracy how my four-year-old i5 rig will fare in recent games.

It's rare to see people recommending something absurdly high like a 1000w for a single-GPU setup anymore, for example.
Click to expand...

This was a heavy, big tower to be honest and part of the problem. The other part was me being a bit selfish. I didn't want to leave the pc behind for the new tenant. So moving it was the only option. ;) It didn't end well.

Building and upgrading a PC is definitely a lot better now, especially if you treat it like a hobby and keep up with information (more or less) or if you are willing to inform yourself before buying.

But I also have to say how awesome the neoGAF pc building community is. Many people here go the extra mile and double check builds, don't ignore money limitations and try to recommend the best possible solutions. There definitely is no 'there is only one way to build a PC and everything else is wrong' mentality.

Ostinatto said:
So is not worth getting DDR4 3200 mhz Ram, cuz its random?
Click to expand...

XMP 3200 mhz ram should be able to reach the stated xmp timings and clock speeds. If you select the corresponding xmp profile in your bios/uefi.
It's another story on ryzen, xmp profiles sometimes don't work and results can vary from mainboard to mainboard.
Some people also don't like to use the xmp profiles in general because ram voltages are often higher than needed (for example). They prefer to manually oc their ram. Results can also be very different here. But there is no reason to worry, it's safe to use xmp profiles on z270 boards.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
Crosspost, but:
Well, the problem was definitely with my CPU. Felt risky to do, but I uninstalled one of the drivers from device manager, and after the reboot, got back all the performance I should have it.

Why did the solution have to be so obvious but vaguely risky?

XP_version2 said:
Hmmm

Intel i7 7700K CPU + Gigabyte Z270X Ultra Gaming for £434/$560

or

7700K + ASUS STRIX Z270-G Gaming for £393/$507
Click to expand...

Also I'd honestly go with the cheaper combo. It's a damned decent saving either way, and unless there's something specific feature wise with the Gigabyte board you're after, not sure why you'd go for the more expensive combo.
 
R

Ragnorok64

Member
IC5 said:
Are you part of any computer forums with a classifieds? Make an open offer to anyone with a 4790k. Or a 4770k. You might get a bite.
Click to expand...
I'm not. Do you have any suggestions on places to try?

kuYuri said:
Last I checked, finding a mITX Z97 mobo is difficult unless you're willing to go used by scouring eBay or CL, they are incredibly rare now. You might get lucky and find a good deal, but you'd have to do some digging.
Click to expand...
Maybe I should just wait on AM4 ITX boards to show up and grab an R4 1400 or 1500X or something. It'd be a shame for my 16gb of DDR3 to go to waste but at least I'd get something current gen.
 
X

XP_version2

Member
JonnyDBrit said:
Also I'd honestly go with the cheaper combo. It's a damned decent saving either way, and unless there's something specific feature wise with the Gigabyte board you're after, not sure why you'd go for the more expensive combo.
Click to expand...

Ah, you've failed to take into account the fact that I'm an idiot and meant 7600 on the Strix package. Edited it now
 
O

Ostinatto

Member
Intel i7 7700k (not gonna OC)
ASUS PRIME Z270-A
COOLERMASTER HYPER 212 LED CPU
NZXT S340

Any thoughts on this?

That mobo and heatsink fits inside that case right?
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
XP_version2 said:
Ah, you've failed to take into account the fact that I'm an idiot and meant 7600 on the Strix package. Edited it now
Click to expand...

Bloodember said:
Id go with the 7700k with the strix, not the gigabyte. An I7 should have better longativity than an i5.
Click to expand...

Ah, in that case I'd say yeah, sink the extra cost on the 7700k if that's an option. I'm going to assume these are specific bundles, rather mixing and matching being an option?
 
H

hitgirl

Member
I'd like a 1TB SSD for storage on my system to play movies and some of my game dumps off of. My steam install is on my main m.2 SSD, so speeds really isn't a must. Sort of on a bit of a budget here as I'm way over budget on this build. Any suggestions?
 
P

PlayALLtheGames

Banned
hitgirl said:
I'd like a 1TB SSD for storage on my system to play movies and some of my game dumps off of. My steam install is on my main m.2 SSD, so speeds really isn't a must. Sort of on a bit of a budget here as I'm way over budget on this build. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I'd go like older Samsung EVO SATA (850, for example).

Crucial MX is probably cheaper but I just haven't had good experiences with those disks.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
hitgirl said:
I'd like a 1TB SSD for storage on my system to play movies and some of my game dumps off of. My steam install is on my main m.2 SSD, so speeds really isn't a must. Sort of on a bit of a budget here as I'm way over budget on this build. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Get rid of the m.2 PCIE SSD if that's what you're getting. You won't benefit from those speeds.

~~

I can't figure out how to limit my frame rate to reduce stuttering in Spec Ops the Line. My laptop is doing 100-80fps uncalled at 4k DSR and SMAA injected. On my 144hz monitor I just limit it to 143 and it works out fine, but on the laptops 75hz Gsync display I have no fucking clue...

Fast Sync doesn't remove stuttering
VSync is laggy
73 and 74 limit has small tearing (why does it have tearing with Gsync?!)

I wonder if Gsync just isn't working for this game or something or I am messing up somehow. Pissing me off.

~~

Fixed it:

Forcing Vsync off wasn't working, so Gsync wasn't being enabled (not sure how that happened).

Limiting fps with RTSS to 72 (75hz screen) does the trick, even with my eyes I can rarely spot any tearing whatsoever.

Now I will run RTSS on startup, and if I ever connect my other display I will change the fps limit value.

Not sure what to do with Doom however. Probably fast sync, but that's a problem for another day.

!!
 
Vigilant Walrus

Vigilant Walrus

Member
Ostinatto said:
Intel i7 7700k (not gonna OC)
ASUS PRIME Z270-A
COOLERMASTER HYPER 212 LED CPU
NZXT S340

Any thoughts on this?

That mobo and heatsink fits inside that case right?
Click to expand...


Looks very nice, but why not get the Kraken x62? That's what I want to get. I LOVE the way it looks.


And why don't you want to OC? Asus comes with 5-Way Optimization. You can set it to O.C to never going to above a certain temperature. If 60- degrees is your max temp you can make it OC as far as it can before reaching 60 degrees.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
And why don't you want to OC? Asus comes with 5-Way Optimization. You can set it to O.C to never going to above a certain temperature. If 60- degrees is your max temp you can make it OC as far as it can before reaching 60 degrees.
Click to expand...

Because he'd be looking a very small FPS increase (to the point of negligible in most games) in exchange for a possibly very high temperature increase.

If he were to go the watercooling route, he'd probably be better served with the H100i v2 or X52 if price is an issue (unless he really likes LED's). I'd personally get a Noctua D15(s) if it fits in that particular case.
 
RobotVM

RobotVM

Member
Need some help. I currently have around 450 to spend on a Budget gaming PC that can run games at 1080p60fps. I need something that I can upgrade later as I will replace CPU to an i7 eventually. Probably will upgrade the GPU as well. I have an SSD and HDD already. Any suggestions?
 
I

Izuna

Banned
robotvendingmachine said:
Need some help. I currently have around 450 to spend on a Budget gaming PC that can run games at 1080p60fps. I need something that I can upgrade later as I will replace CPU to an i7 eventually. Probably will upgrade the GPU as well. I have an SSD and HDD already. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Not including monitor and input accessories?

I mean, half of that will be on just the CPU. By i7, do you mean kabylake? You could MAYBE squeeze a 3GB 1060/480 and 7500 for that much.

Edit: Oh you have storage sorted? Shouldn't be hard. If someone else hasn't by the time I get home, I'll go on pcpartpicker
 
RobotVM

RobotVM

Member
Izuna said:
Not including monitor and input accessories?

I mean, half of that will be on just the CPU. By i7, do you mean kabylake? You could MAYBE squeeze a 3GB 1060/480 and 7500 for that much.

Edit: Oh you have storage sorted? Shouldn't be hard. If someone else hasn't by the time I get home, I'll go on pcpartpicker
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be an i7 now but yes a mobo that is kabylake compatible. I just need a tower. I am replacing an Alienware Alpha.
 
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