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[Setsuna Mudou]

Concern trolling about heat is tiresome. Intel chips are designed to run hotter. They can do it without throttling and their chips work fine with a normal air cooler.

TDP matters in laptops but I also don't get why anyone would care in a desktop, unless you are running a render farm.

It's not concern trolling to make factual statements. The cooling required is much higher on these Intel CPUs.
When you're in a market for a CPU, especially for gaming, the 7800X3d is the obvious choice at all levels, including performance it seems vs the 14000 series. Power draw and cost they already have the upper hand for a while too.

Also factoring in the cost of RAM for the intel cpus to have close to the same performance as the x3d ones. It's just stupid, to pick intel currently for gaming.

But some people are stupid and that's great to keep Intel afloat, we need competition after all.

 

[ReBurn]

Can't believe this still has to be explained. Same thing when a low or mid-tier GPU is paired with a top-tier CPU.

New people enter the PC gaming space every day. They haven't wasted as much time obsessing over specs and developing a smug and offensive demeanor like some veteran PC gamers have. It's good to be helpful when people don't understand.

 

[winjer]

Intel core power is from overclocking all P cores and overclocking the ram.

doing so, will beat 7950x3d with a big gap.

With a 14900K, it's probably already boosting as much as it can on those P-Cores.
Overclocking memory will give some gains. But maybe not as big as you expect.
Going from a good 6000 memory kit with XMP, to 7200 with highly tunned settings, may net an extra 8% on average.

And consider these timings were optimized by Builzoid. Most users do not have the skill to tweak memory like this.

 

[Gaiff]

New people enter the PC gaming space every day. They haven't wasted as much time obsessing over specs and developing a smug and offensive demeanor like some veteran PC gamers have. It's good to be helpful when people don't understand.

Then come with the attitude of someone who doesn't understand. Don't mock reviewers with a sarcastic remark when you're the one missing the point.

 

[Kadve]

Even if this is true im still taking it with a grain of salt. Intel themselves made the slide so of course they're gonna put the CPU in a "good light".

 

[SF Kosmo]

It's not concern trolling to make factual statements. The cooling required is much higher on these Intel CPUs.

No it fucking isn't, man. These chips have vastly different target/safe temps. Intel chips can run at higher temps than AMD without issues, so they don't need crazy cooling.

I have a normal air cooler on my 13700k and I've never come within 20 degrees of a throttle. This is a stupid talking point that isn't based in reality.

Also factoring in the cost of RAM for the intel cpus to have close to the same performance as the x3d ones.

Tight timings more important than raw speed for both, so I don't really know what you're on a about here.

It's just stupid, to pick intel currently for gaming.

I dunno, I saved 100 bucks over AMD and I get way better performance in both Starfield and Cyberpunk, which were the main CPU-destroyer games I cared about.

7800x3D is a fine choice, but the hyperbolic language and bad talking points do nothing to help someone make an informed choice.

 

[peish]

With a 14900K, it's probably already boosting as much as it can on those P-Cores.
Overclocking memory will give some gains. But maybe not as big as you expect.
Going from a good 6000 memory kit with XMP, to 7200 with highly tunned settings, may net an extra 8% on average.

And consider these timings were optimized by Builzoid. Most users do not have the skill to tweak memory like this.

Intel power users do not care about boosting.

They go full max clocks. This is an area where Amd is still behind.

You can run 5.8Ghz to 6Ghz on Intel easily for games. It takes about 120w on average.

Amd struggles to get 4 cores past 5.5ghz.

Games love raw cpu and ram speeds.

 

[winjer]

No it fucking isn't, man. These chips have vastly different target/safe temps. Intel chips can run at higher temps than AMD without issues, so they don't need crazy cooling.

The max temperature for a 13th gen CPU is 100ºc
The max temperature for Zen4 CPU is 95ºc and 89ºc for the X3D parts. So it's not a big difference.
But the issue is not just safety. Modern CPUs will throttle when reaching their limits.
And with the 13900K pushing 3X the power usage while gaming, that means more heat into the case. And more chances to throttle.
And this will also affect the rest of the system. Memory for example is very sensitive to temperature. So mantaining tight timings and high clock speeds becomes more difficult.
More heat in the case, also means it will affect the GPU. Which might not boost as high.
So you need a significantly beefier case and fan setup, to extract all that extra hot air.

I have a normal air cooler on my 13700k and I've never come within 20 degrees of a throttle. This is a stupid talking point that isn't based in reality.

The 13700K boosts to 5.4 Ghz. That is much lower than the 6Ghz the 14900K targets.
Remember that voltage does not scale linearly with clock speed. So to get those extra 0.6Ghz, it requires significantly more power.

 

[SmokedMeat]

 

[winjer]

Intel power users do not care about boosting.

They go full max clocks. This is an area where Amd is still behind.

Complete non-sense. Both Intel and AMD have their CPUs to operate inside a power and temperature envelope. And they will try to boost as high as they can inside these limits.
But when any of those limits is reached, they start to throttle. Both AMD and Intel.
So maybe if you run a game like the new Forza, which almost only uses one thread, it's unlikely to reach those limits. And they will go full clock speeds.
But on games that are heavily multi threaded, that becomes more of a possibility.

You can run 5.8Ghz to 6Ghz on Intel easily for games. It takes about 120w on average.

In games, the average power use for a 13900K is 140W. The results are in the first page, from techpowerup.
And the 13900K does not boost to 6Ghz. It boosts to 5.8Ghz.
We do not know how much power, the 14900K will use to boost to 6Ghz. But it's very likely that it will be more.

Amd struggles to get 4 cores past 5.5ghz.

Also consider that it takes almost 3X the power to get those extra 0.5Ghz.

Games love raw cpu and ram speeds.

That must be a new metric, "raw CPU".
But considering how much power the 13900K uses, it should be cooked by now.

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

No it fucking isn't, man. These chips have vastly different target/safe temps. Intel chips can run at higher temps than AMD without issues, so they don't need crazy cooling.

I have a normal air cooler on my 13700k and I've never come within 20 degrees of a throttle. This is a stupid talking point that isn't based in reality.

Good retort, let me try...

Yes it fucking is, man.

It's factual these chips consume a lot more electricity and run hotter than the x3d ones by a lot. No one said you'd need a nuclear power plant to feed them or that they are impossible to cool, but you need a really expensive cooling solution to do so. Also, the 700 is the mid-range option, the initial post was talking about the top end chip which requires much better cooling than yours does, so even your anecdotal evidence has no bearing on this topic.

Tight timings more important than raw speed for both, so I don't really know what you're on a about here.

Both, you need high frequency and ideally good timings to get close to the x3d chips, which will perform amazingly with lower end RAM. Factually lowering your total system cost.

I dunno, I saved 100 bucks over AMD and I get way better performance in both Starfield and Cyberpunk, which were the main CPU-destroyer games I cared about.

7800x3D is a fine choice, but the hyperbolic language and bad talking points do nothing to help someone make an informed choice.

You bought the mid-range CPU, we're talking high end. Absolutely irrelevant if somehow you have more fps on a couple of poorly optimized games. Especially Cyberpunk that is massively GPU bound. Starfield is shit, no one cares and I dismiss it out of hand. Not care enough to even see any cpu benchmarks on that mess of a game.
You have plenty of multigame benchmarks and clearly one cpu is superior in overall game performance with a price that Intel can't match, sorry, it is what it is.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

cmon everyone, please buy the 14-gen intels so i can drunkenly buy a used 13-gen on ebay one night.

 

[Celcius]

Would a Noctua NH-D15 be able to cool a 14900k or 14700k you think?
or is air cooling for the high end intel chips not really feasible this time around?

 

[SF Kosmo]

The max temperature for a 13th gen CPU is 100ºc
The max temperature for Zen4 CPU is 95ºc and 89ºc for the X3D parts. So it's not a big difference.
But the issue is not just safety. Modern CPUs will throttle when reaching their limits.
And with the 13900K pushing 3X the power usage while gaming, that means more heat into the case. And more chances to throttle.

Like I said Intel chips run about 10 degrees hotter and throttle about 10 degrees hotter. But neither will throttle with a half decent air cooler so all this concern about temperature isn't a real practical thing a person needs to worry about when building a system, it's just this arbitrary talking point that doesn't matter to anyone.

And this will also affect the rest of the system. Memory for example is very sensitive to temperature. So mantaining tight timings and high clock speeds becomes more difficult.
More heat in the case, also means it will affect the GPU. Which might not boost as high.
So you need a significantly beefier case and fan setup, to extract all that extra hot air.

Not in practice, no. In a normal sized case, a typical air cooled set up is fine for either. In a Small Form Factor case you're not going to have room for an air cooler and you'll water cool anyway.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Would a Noctua NH-D15 be able to cool a 14900k or 14700k you think?
or is air cooling for the high end intel chips not really feasible this time around?

It was completely fine on 13th gen and I don't see any reason to think this would be different.

 

[GHG]

The 7800X3D is already being sold for 349$
The 14900K is already listed in some stores for 560£

So the 7800X3D is much cheaper. Performs better. And uses much less power.



Power usage is still important for desktops. For once, it means less cost in energy usage.
A cooler CPU also means you don't have to spend as much in a cooling system for it, the case and fans.
It also means it heats up the room much less. So it also saves in the AC bill.
And it also means we don't have to spend more money in a more powerful PSU.

So for a gaming system, the 7800X3D is by far, the best choice.

Added bonus, your AM5 motherboard will continue to get support for future CPU's down the road.

 

[Dorfdad]

Had a 13900K and Bought a Ryzen 7800x3D and can't tell you how much happier I am with the AMD build. Was able to reduce power, much quieter and able to use air cooler instead of water cooling. Have had ZERO crashes and issues. We're not going to need new CPU's now what we need is improvement in storage speeds and GPU's to drive the future of gaming.

 

[sendit]

Yeah, no. Intel is FUBAR.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Would a Noctua NH-D15 be able to cool a 14900k or 14700k you think?
or is air cooling for the high end intel chips not really feasible this time around?

Core i9-13900K Cooling Guide: Testing Intel's Flagship With Budget Air and Big AIOs

The Core i9-13900K can push even the most capable liquid coolers to their limits, but you don’t lose that much performance if you go with budget-priced air cooling.

www.tomshardware.com

At least with 13900K, it boosts until it hits its thermal limit. You will hit that limit at a lower speed with an air cooler but it’s not like your system is going to die. I expect 14000 series to be the same way.

 

[winjer]

Added bonus, your AM5 motherboard will continue to get support for future CPU's down the road.

Also, with AMD, we don't need to buy a contact frame to fix the shoddy socket design.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Also, with AMD, we don't need to buy a contact frame to fix the shoddy socket design.

Availability doesn't mean necessity.

Thermal Grizzly Ryzen 7000 Direct Die Frame Mounting Frame

The Ryzen 7000 Direct Die Frame is a mounting frame for use with delidded Ryzen 7000 CPUs (not X3D!)

www.thermal-grizzly.com

Intel users by and large tinker more than AMD, but that is changing somewhat.

 

[winjer]

Availability doesn't mean necessity.

Thermal Grizzly Ryzen 7000 Direct Die Frame Mounting Frame

The Ryzen 7000 Direct Die Frame is a mounting frame for use with delidded Ryzen 7000 CPUs (not X3D!)

www.thermal-grizzly.com

Intel users by and large tinker more than AMD, but that is changing somewhat.

The contact frame reduces temperatures by around 10-15cº
On a CPU that uses as much power as a 14900K, that will become very important.

On several DIY shops, AMD is outselling Intel. So yes, there are a lot of people tinkering with AMD as well.

 

[Dream-Knife]

The contact frame reduces temperatures by around 10-15cº
On a CPU that uses as much power as a 14900K, that will become very important.

On several DIY shops, AMD is outselling Intel. So yes, there are a lot of people tinkering with AMD as well.

No I don't mean DIY, I mean overclockers.

Assembling isn't tinkering.

 

[Bojji]

Intel stuff

You are completely delusional about this, basic fucking psychics will tell you that you need way bigger cooling to cool down 141W CPU compared to 51W CPU (average gaming power draw). You need bigger power supply, you will eventually pay more for power and electricity is expensive in many parts of the world.

Currently top Intel CPUs doesn't make any fucking sense, AMD beats them in most categories and AM5 have future compared to current LGA-something from Intel. We need to wait for new architecture from them.

 

[winjer]

No I don't mean DIY, I mean overclockers.

Assembling isn't tinkering.

Yes, Intel probably has more people tinkering.
But AMD is not that far behind in that regard. Zen3 and Zen4 have been very successful with overclockers. Especially for memory tunning.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Yes, Intel probably has more people tinkering.
But AMD is not that far behind in that regard. Zen3 and Zen4 have been very successful with overclockers. Especially for memory tunning.

Ok...

 

[SlimySnake]

Currently top Intel CPUs doesn't make any fucking sense, AMD beats them in most categories and AM5 have future compared to current LGA-something from Intel. We need to wait for new architecture from them.

Intel CPUs hit higher clocks which most games especially unoptimized ones prefer. thats partly why the zen 2 and zen 3 CPUs have aged so poorly in recent games compared to their intel counterparts.

 

[ABrokenToy]

I'm still happy with my i7-13700KF

 

[winjer]

Intel CPUs hit higher clocks which most games especially unoptimized ones prefer. thats partly why the zen 2 and zen 3 CPUs have aged so poorly in recent games compared to their intel counterparts.

Are they? Because if you look at reviews, will see that they are still around the 10th and 11th series.
Zen2 was always slightly slower than 10th Gen. It was only with Zen3 that AMD gained a bit of an advantage.

 

[Bojji]

Intel CPUs hit higher clocks which most games especially unoptimized ones prefer. thats partly why the zen 2 and zen 3 CPUs have aged so poorly in recent games compared to their intel counterparts.

Yeah that's not true at all. Performance is not always about clocks but also IPC, memory/cache systems etc. Core 2 duo CPUs with super low clocks mopped the floor Pentium 4 with high clocks.

5600X was around 10900K at launch:

In new games it's mostly in the same place:

 

[sendit]

Intel CPUs hit higher clocks which most games especially unoptimized ones prefer. thats partly why the zen 2 and zen 3 CPUs have aged so poorly in recent games compared to their intel counterparts.

True about intel higher clocks, but incorrect about everything else.

 

[xVodevil]

No pressure to buy the new stuff just because.. well it's new..
Especially on gaming side when it's often forgotten by devs that there are more than one cores / threads that exist..

 

[SF Kosmo]

You are completely delusional about this, basic fucking psychics will tell you that you need way bigger cooling to cool down 141W CPU compared to 51W CPU (average gaming power draw).

Look whatever academic conversation you want to have about a hypothetical minspec cooler that doesn't exist, both can be cooled just fine by the sorts of basic air coolers you would put on any modern CPU, so why are we wasting breath on this point?

You need bigger power supply, you will eventually pay more for power and electricity is expensive in many parts of the world.

Really unlikely to be a relevant concern to 99% of people.

Currently top Intel CPUs doesn't make any fucking sense, AMD beats them in most categories and AM5 have future compared to current LGA-something from Intel. We need to wait for new architecture from them.

AM5 is totally the more upgradable platform. That's a legit point. This nonsense about heat and power is just silly, no one cares about that shit.

 

[supernova8]

It's Intel 7++

the +s stand for 1.5 each so that gives you 10 in total

 

[Black_Stride]

Still slower in games that are multithreaded.
We all knew this was just a refresh.



Give me that 14500.
Imma sleep till NovaLake

 

[Panajev2001a]

Look whatever academic conversation you want to have about a hypothetical minspec cooler that doesn't exist, both can be cooled just fine by the sorts of basic air coolers you would put on any modern CPU, so why are we wasting breath on this point?


Really unlikely to be a relevant concern to 99% of people.


AM5 is totally the more upgradable platform. That's a legit point. This nonsense about heat and power is just silly, no one cares about that shit.

Meanwhile, for almost everyone but you, power dissipation is something one does not take lightly but then again it would have to take Intel’s “achievement” down a peg so I see the distress .

 

[Eotheod]

Somewhat relevant and can't be bothered searching for the PC thread (my apologies).

Looking to upgrade from 3800XT, wanting to go 7800X3D and the GSkill Flare 6000mhz 32 CAS ram. What's a good 670E motherboard to go? I'm wanting at least 4x m.2 slots and wifi. Was going Steel Legend but they are all out of stock or on back order for at least three weeks in Australia.

 

[ChoosableOne]

This is the funny thing about CPU reviews. Nobody buys a $500+ CPU and a 4090 to game at 1080p. But if you benchmark them at settings gamers would actually use (I.e. 4K high quality) then every $350+ CPU is within a couple % of each other.

Anything above 13700K/7800X3D only makes sense if you use your PC for other CPU-intensive stuff in addition to gaming.

I used to think this way and always skimped on the CPU when building a PC. Then I learned that stutter and FPS drops(%1, %0.1 fps values) could be due to a weak CPU. Plus, it's an investment for future games. Many games recommend i7/i9 for 4K; they must know something.

 

[MikeM]

What's the power draw?

Probably 2 times minimum of the 7800x3d. Wouldn’t be surprised if more.

This is the funny thing about CPU reviews. Nobody buys a $500+ CPU and a 4090 to game at 1080p. But if you benchmark them at settings gamers would actually use (I.e. 4K high quality) then every $350+ CPU is within a couple % of each other.

Anything above 13700K/7800X3D only makes sense if you use your PC for other CPU-intensive stuff in addition to gaming.

I get what you are saying but testing at 1080p provides the most accurate cpu stress test.

 

[MikeM]

Somewhat relevant and can't be bothered searching for the PC thread (my apologies).

Looking to upgrade from 3800XT, wanting to go 7800X3D and the GSkill Flare 6000mhz 32 CAS ram. What's a good 670E motherboard to go? I'm wanting at least 4x m.2 slots and wifi. Was going Steel Legend but they are all out of stock or on back order for at least three weeks in Australia.

Go 6000mhz cl30. Might as well go all in on a high end build.

I’m personally going with a B650 MSI Tomahawk with either a 7600x or 7800x3d today. 6000mhz cl30 32GB of Ram.

 

[Eotheod]

Go 6000mhz cl30. Might as well go all in on a high end build.

I’m personally going with a B650 MSI Tomahawk with either a 7600x or 7800x3d today. 6000mhz cl30 32GB of Ram.

I'd love to go cheaper board but I need those 4 m.2 slots, and especially the gen 5 speeds for storage. Thanks for the suggestions though!

 

[marquimvfs]

Concern trolling about heat is tiresome. Intel chips are designed to run hotter. They can do it without throttling and their chips work fine with a normal air cooler.

TDP matters in laptops but I also don't get why anyone would care in a desktop, unless you are running a render farm.

Tell that to a client of mine who's i9 13th gen constantly throttles with a 360mm water cooler. RUNNING FUCKING COD Warzone.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

On a mobo that isn't future ready....
Pass

 

[SF Kosmo]

Tell that to a client of mine who's i9 13th gen constantly throttles with a 360mm water cooler. RUNNING FUCKING COD Warzone.

He's doing something wrong. Fans installed backwards or something. It doesn't make sense otherwise. I just played Cyberpunk for 3 hours with no throttling on an air cooler. I don't even get within 20 degrees of throttle.

 

[marquimvfs]

He's doing something wrong. Fans installed backwards or something. It doesn't make sense otherwise. I just played Cyberpunk for 3 hours with no throttling on an air cooler. I don't even get within 20 degrees of throttle.

I've built the pc myself. Nothing wrong. Changed cooler last week. Even tryed limiting the TDP at bios to several values down to 90W yesterday (I believed that less than that was absurd), just for him to call me today showing that it didn't worked as intended. The only thing that we haven't done yet is to start a warranty claim on the processor.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I've built the pc myself. Nothing wrong. Changed cooler last week. Even tryed limiting the TDP at bios to several values down to 90W yesterday (I believed that less than that was absurd), just for him to call me today showing that it didn't worked as intended. The only thing that we haven't done yet is to start a warranty claim on the processor.

I guess there can always be errors in binning, in which case, yeah RMA that shit. My point here is that's not typical of these processors.

 

[marquimvfs]

I guess there can always be errors in binning, in which case, yeah RMA that shit. My point here is that's not typical of these processors.

My point it is. Is not the first case, just the most absurd.

 

[DirtyBast8rd]

New people enter the PC gaming space every day. They haven't wasted as much time obsessing over specs and developing a smug and offensive demeanor like some veteran PC gamers have. It's good to be helpful when people don't understand.

Well thank you kind sir and could you kindly explain if all things are equal, gpu, ram, resolution etc except the cpu, why the difference in outcome would be anything other than cpu related?

 

[SF Kosmo]

My point it is. Is not the first case, just the most absurd.

There have been exploding 7800X3Ds, too, but it's not normal, and it's probably not a huge consideration for most people.

 

[mitch1971]