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IGN mail: Fran flips out?!?
- Thread starter Mrbob
- Start date
Alcibiades
Member
Purple states: Pikmin 2
Alcibiades
Member
yeah, I pretty much agree with what you posted...Gahiggidy said:
though its appeal is broader, halo is a much smarter game than metroid prime. its world and back story are richer and more thoughtful than prime's (though i don't play halo for the story). it's environments too are more subtly designed than prime's abstract videogamey clichés ("here's the fire area, and now here's the ice area! here's a light world and its parallel dark world!"). it has smartly choreographed cutscenes with sharply written dialogue where prime has inane scan logs. and on the higher difficulty levels, its battles require far more thought and strategy than metroid's glorified "find key open door" routine. it's a reflex to think of action games as dumb and adventure games as smart, but actually it's rare that a console adventure game demands any thought at all. even halo's soundtrack is more sophisticated. halo wins on brains, looks, and brawn. sorry.
Is that code for boring as hell? GC's Metroid wont ever become a mainstream game because it isnt fun. Its extremely polished, the graphics are great, the controlls work well, the music and sounds are just about perfect but that does not change the fact that underneath it all the game is not entertaining. The only people willing to sit through all the needless backtracking and frustrating, pointless puzzles are nintendo fans who will spend the entire time desperately trying to convince themselves that they are having fun. I forced myself through the first game and I regret wasting those hours of my life doing something I wasnt enjoying.
What Fran doesn't seem to understand, at least from my perspective, is that Nintendo isn't trying to compete with Halo 2 and xbox or GTA and Sony.
Often people assume Nintendo wants to compete but they're just too thick headed to spend the advertising money needed to get the ball rolling and they're too rooted in tradition to make games which are culturally relevant to most of today's western videogame audiences. I find that argument hard to swallow. I think they're smarter than that.
Often people assume Nintendo wants to compete but they're just too thick headed to spend the advertising money needed to get the ball rolling and they're too rooted in tradition to make games which are culturally relevant to most of today's western videogame audiences. I find that argument hard to swallow. I think they're smarter than that.
Mike Works
Member
Frustrating, pointless puzzles? I'd enjoy witnessing you elaborate on that accusation. I'm not sure how you can classify a puzzle as "pointless" without isolating every puzzle ever in an action or adventure game.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Merlin said:
this is gaf. lose the i
Fran can freak out, he has every right to. his old fuck buddy casseroley lost a stack of weight and looks great. His angst is mostly at losing that pootang.
On the other hand, is it even worth getting upset over Nintendo's advertising/lack of this late iin the game? They should have made the console more competitive when it counted but didn't (their price cut should have happened earlier). And their no.1 problem isnt' going to go away: Nintendo titles cannibalising the sales of everything else on the console. so nah.
SELL IT
etiolate said:
I agree with the post. If you want the gamecube to be like the Xbox, why don't you just take the easy road and buy a Xbox (which is, coincidently, exactly like an Xbox). Instead of writing whinefest after whinefest on how the GC isn't like the Xbox.
If nintendo no longer offers what you want from videogames and other companies do, well then move on. Don't hurt yourself and others by sticking to your old consolelove and do nothing but complain about it.
Fran, i think it's better if you and the GC stop seeing each other.
As a game, lack of multiplayer and lack of overall satisfying action are what paled Metroid Prime to Halo. Much of the game is spent scanning things, killing weak enemies, and piecing together clues. There were only a couple of bosses that put up a good fight, and seeing as how i just got to Metroid Prime tonight (and lost), i'd have to say Thardus was the most satisfying. Seeing an area you couldn't reach was a tease, but at the same time, i didn't mind backtracking because i had new items to try out in the old areas that opened up new areas.
Both games are well-polished, but they set out to achieve completely different goals although having similar means to accomplish them. It's sad that people can't realize that and move on. It's like comparing SF3: Third Strike to Super Smash Bros. Melee.
Both games are well-polished, but they set out to achieve completely different goals although having similar means to accomplish them. It's sad that people can't realize that and move on. It's like comparing SF3: Third Strike to Super Smash Bros. Melee.
PanopticBlue
Member
drohne said:
Thread over. Damn you hit the nail on the head.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Sooo, Reggie is a nice guy now? Poor him, I wouldn't have guessed.
This, I can completely agree with. That's the reason you see a game like Pokemon becoming wildly popular, but something like Ico or Katamari (simply not a kiddie oriented games, but both unfamiliar experiences) will never sell to mainstream.
Wellington
BAAAALLLINNN'
AniHawk said:
Yeah, a tad too much credit in some areas, but he's right about others. The story for Halo is fleshed out, and it's readily available while I understand that the Metroid backstory was explored in some older Nintendo power comics, but how can I get those nowadays if I'm a casual? I disagree 100% with drohne on the environment's design. Though yeah, it's cliche to have the ice area, lava area, grass area, etc... the entire world was crafted as a playground for the abilities Samus had and would gain throught the game, but I do agree that the whole different beams being different keys to doors was annoying and harkened back to Wolfenstein and Doom. And while yes, Halo had great enemy encounters on Legendary difficulty, Metroid Prime made up for that with it's incredible bosses, mid-bosses and atmosphere.
Halo (the original) was just one of those games. The ones that don't need much advertising muscle but succeed through word of mouth and general positive impressions. Until I tried co-op and multiplayer, I was less than impressed with the title, while Metroid Prime had me by the balls pretty much until I reached the artifact collection. Halo 2 is just a continuation of that success. I think of it as if Rare had gotten to do a Goldeneye 2. Halo 2 is just a lot about what was great about the original, no more shitty SP maps, and the insanely fun and addictive multiplayer is now online. It's like a snowballing effect MP:E cannot compete with.
MrBob and I were talking about the two games during a game of Madden, he had me rolling with some of his comments. "Dude after playing Halo 2 I can't wait until Echoes' four player split screen action. This is going to be a killer app." It just seriously cannot compete with Halo 2, though i know I will enjoy the single player in Echoes more being a long time Metroid fan. Just look at the cost associated with trying to get a LAN multiplayer game going (assuming MPE supports LAN, I don't even know).
Even as a gamer though, the MP:E commercials leave me more confused about the game than if I hadn't watched them at all. The only cryptic commercials that work at all are those R&C commercials with the guns, 'cause they're just outright awesome to begin with.
Floyd
Member
drohne said:
I think your overly biased and are over glorifying Halo, and down playing MP because of it, but those are good points apart from the lvl design. MP is unmatched on that imo.
But yea the real Halo experience is on legendary. What comes before that is simple fun for the masses. Helps explain why its so big. Accessible and appealing to every kind of gamer out there.
And MP does require thought. Not on the lvl of Halo on legendary obviously. The ball mode puzzles require it. And learning your enemies attack patterns to defeat them mainly with the boss fights.
And i wouldn't say Halo looks better. They both look incredible for different reasons. Halo has a more solid defined look thanks to the bump mapping. And the character models own those in Prime.
But MPs worlds have unmatched attention to detail and variety. Hardly any cut and paste environments to be found. And don't be sorry. Your opinions are yours to give and they are just opinions, so you have nothing to apologize for.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
PanopticBlue said:
I agree, though it's not IMO "the greatest game ever made" or anything. It is damn satisfying and easily the best FPS on a console.
Partly the problem with Nintendo games though is the over romanticization by their fans (including reviewers) of games whose content doesn't match the aspirations or the history of the company. There's all this hand wringing about alternative and niche content they provide, when really it's a rote roll out of franchises. The public understands it, the forum dwellers claim their not otaku enough or something.
More evidence that IGN editorials are a waste. I can't believe his flipping out because Nintendo decided to donate some doors to charity rather than push MP2 (which isn't going to be a big title this winter anyway).
I'm positive now that Nintendo is pretty much done with trying to push the GC hard. The DS and the next generation console are on their minds more than anything else. I also imagine that with prosposals for animation and investments in Bandai Nintendo is looking to expand themselves--they know that they'll will never regain a huge part of the console market or have console software to match GTA and Halo or even their own past successes like Mario 3 or Zelda:OoT.
These rants from sites and fans are falling on deaf ears, so just give it up.
I'm positive now that Nintendo is pretty much done with trying to push the GC hard. The DS and the next generation console are on their minds more than anything else. I also imagine that with prosposals for animation and investments in Bandai Nintendo is looking to expand themselves--they know that they'll will never regain a huge part of the console market or have console software to match GTA and Halo or even their own past successes like Mario 3 or Zelda:OoT.
These rants from sites and fans are falling on deaf ears, so just give it up.
Wellington said:
I haven't seen a good Nintendo commercial in a long time. I take that back because I loved the Pikmin 2 commercial, but otherwise Nintendo seems to me to be pretty bad at making good commercials. Like the Paper Mario 2 commercial, I liked it but I thought it was a bad commercial b/c it had almost no gameplay and the whole commercial revolved around the word "Mario" as if they decided that was the only thing they should use to sell PM2.
You don't know much Gahiggidy.
Anyhoo, I'm in the camp that Nintendo knows Gamecube is pretty much dead and is just going through the motions, The DS is the meal ticket for the next few years and they know it.
Nintendo has another chance come the revolution, they really have to ditch the "WE NEED TO MAKE SIMPLER GAMES CAUSE GAMING IS IN CRISIS!" attitude they've had for the past 6 years because Sony capitalised on that, and now so has Microsoft. The Playstation brand is as strong as it ever was. The Xbox brand is ascendant (thank you Halo 2), the Nintendo motif has been in free fall since 1999.
Anyhoo, I'm in the camp that Nintendo knows Gamecube is pretty much dead and is just going through the motions, The DS is the meal ticket for the next few years and they know it.
Nintendo has another chance come the revolution, they really have to ditch the "WE NEED TO MAKE SIMPLER GAMES CAUSE GAMING IS IN CRISIS!" attitude they've had for the past 6 years because Sony capitalised on that, and now so has Microsoft. The Playstation brand is as strong as it ever was. The Xbox brand is ascendant (thank you Halo 2), the Nintendo motif has been in free fall since 1999.
The problem with Nintendo's commercials, IMO, is not the lenght, its how that length is used. Most Nintendo commercials, hell, all Nintendo GC commercials, are about 25 seconds of pointless themes like teens on a building, a kid in therapy, a piece of paper rolling down a hill, or a woman walking down an alley followed by about 5 seconds of outdated footage. The footage comes and goes so fast, you almost miss it. Its almost like they are trying to hide their games. This appraoch makes no sense, especially with Metroid Prime 2, since it supposedly has some of the best visuals this gen.
Fist Person Shooter is far from my favorite video game genre yet Halo 2's commercials, with all impressive in- game footage and haunting music, almost convinced me to get the game. Now THATS impressive advertising.
Fist Person Shooter is far from my favorite video game genre yet Halo 2's commercials, with all impressive in- game footage and haunting music, almost convinced me to get the game. Now THATS impressive advertising.
Actually, MS won on both counts.
1) Halo has more mainstream buzz
but
2) The Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation has given way more money to charities than Nintendo ever has or will. As business-ruthless as Bill Gates is, he's still cool enough to understand that giving to charity in exchange for publicity is selfish.
Nintendo gave 1000 doors to habitat for humanity. Bill Gates has spent $3.8 billion on global health, $2.2 billion on education, and $238 million on libraries...
1) Halo has more mainstream buzz
but
2) The Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation has given way more money to charities than Nintendo ever has or will. As business-ruthless as Bill Gates is, he's still cool enough to understand that giving to charity in exchange for publicity is selfish.
Nintendo gave 1000 doors to habitat for humanity. Bill Gates has spent $3.8 billion on global health, $2.2 billion on education, and $238 million on libraries...
Jibber Hack
Member
I would have ignored ramblings such as Fran's before MS's hype machine influenced me. I had totally convinced myself that it was pointless to buy and Xbox just for Halo 2. There were only a handful of games beyond Bungie's efforts and I don't have broadband. But, I found myself eating up G4's Halo 2 coverage. They conjured up memories of playing Marathon and totally convinced me that I HAD to have a copy of Halo 2. The next night I was at Best Buy considering maxing out my credit card for a copy of Halo 2 and an Xbox. Neither Nintendo nor Sony have had me risking financial instability to buy a piece of software.
Nintendo really does need to take notes on how to get people to the stores. They think that if they just drop their price people will flock to their system. If they had smart marketing they would not have had to drop their price in the first place. They could still be charging $150 for Cubes if they could convince people that they needed the system. They've had some great titles to work with in the past and now Metroid 2 is here and I haven't seen the Metroid commercial on basic TV networks. This is a problem.
Nintendo really does need to take notes on how to get people to the stores. They think that if they just drop their price people will flock to their system. If they had smart marketing they would not have had to drop their price in the first place. They could still be charging $150 for Cubes if they could convince people that they needed the system. They've had some great titles to work with in the past and now Metroid 2 is here and I haven't seen the Metroid commercial on basic TV networks. This is a problem.
Pfucata said:
That really isn't the point. Everyone knows that Nintendo has failed at promotions for the GC and its software--picking out this particular instance where Nintendo decided to tie their game to a charity was idiotic.
Let's get real here--Nintendo isn't ran by morons. If they really cared about Halo and what MS was doing right now they would've surely taken a different approach. The reality is that the GC is pretty much at a stand still--it isn't worth trying to go blow to blow with MS when they have a new handheld to launch on top of having a failed console to support.
Nintendo stopped competing with MS and Sony this year. It doesn't matter that MS "won" in either case.
Actually, a few years ago there was a stream of news and magazine articles about how Bill Gates/Microsoft were giving basically nothing to charity, especially relative to their finances. Only after there were a large number of these articles did the charitable spending start and increase to the level to which it is today. So I can hardly think he's "cool enough to understand that giving to charity in exchange for publicity is selfish" when he started giving in order to avoid the negative publicity.
Alot of times while playing I would find a new area and think I was finally going to get the gun or ability I needed to progress only to find that all the work was for a missle. Then you have to start over backtracking across the map again looking for the little spot you missed. I just dont understand the appeal of this type of game.
Alot of us don't understand the appeal of YET ANOTHER fps shooter, but you don't see us trying to devalue the entire genre just because it's horribly overplayed, overhyped, and boring do you??
*I have played neither Halo, Halo 2, Metroid Prime, or Metroid Prime 2, I'm just pointing out that there are many of us that find the whole FPS genre annoyingly boring and overplayed, just as you apparently feel the same way about anything with "adventure" characteristics.
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