Support NeoGAF

[Warm Machine]

I really agree that Halo offers much more instant gratification. It is very much a pick up and play game that offers a lot of satisfaction.

Now...

Take the weapon fire and action of Halo and put it within the environment and puzzel solving of Metroid Prime and you would have a hell of a game. Metroid excells wonderfully at the adventure portion but its action is dull. The lock on mechanic is simply boring. People want to aim and shoot themselves as hitting in that manner is rewarding unto itslef.

You can argue that in Metroid you can do this but the game is far too difficult to play without using the lock on. If fact, the game is designed around the lock on being there for the players benefit and success.

 

[Soul4ger]

Action is secondary to exploration in Metroid. It's like ICO in that regard. And you can't say the action was completely dull, because the boss battles were great. I thought it was a pretty swell game.

 

[alejob]

WTH, so Fran wants Nintendo to donate 1 door or what? Geez! Its OK to be pissed at Nintendo but why bring a donation/good did in to the argument?


I have seen the light, this is what nintendo does. Why does he even bother with the continued bitching about it! I've learned to live with it and so should he!

I still have hope in Revolution though, I'm a nintendo fanboy at heart after all.

 

[etiolate]

drohne is starting to state opinion as revelation.

Half the people buying Halo 2 would likely get stuck at the first puzzle in MP. Or the first puzzle in a Zelda game, or any game. Shoot`em up, despite increased difficulty levels, are still shoot`em up. People neglect puzzles in games as part of diffuclty because many have formed a 'videogame logic' where they can figure out what to do with better ease just from past experience. Newcomers, the people inflating game sales, have no 'videogame logic' to work from and would be intimidated by these puzzles.

Also, the level design is intergrated in to the eviroment. Trees are platforms, vines are covering holes, holes lead to tunnels up tot he top of the room, invisisble platforms lead across top of room to a door you couldn't even see when you got into the room. This alone requires more thought than a 'fratboy' would ever do.

Lastly, the metroid series plays out its story instead of presenting it to you through cinematics. I wish more games did this, leaving open interpretation for the player and realizing the story telling advantages of the media exist outside of hollywood routines. I am not saying the story is better than Halo, just the way that it's told is possibly more clever.

I'd rather not reply to another Metroid themed thread derailment, but too many "hit the nail on the head! dur dur dur" replies made me wonder if they really thought out the comparison or not.

 

[Wellington]

Let's not get caught up in generalizations, 'cause if that were what we were to go by, then Nintendo really screwed themselves over with the ESRB rating for MP and MP:E since no one is old enough to get it yet.

You forget that some of the 'fratboys' grew up on Metroid. One of my best friends isn't even close to a gamer, but he has a Gamecube with Mario, Zelda, and Metroid because that's what we grew up playing as kids. Yeah the game isn't immediately accessible, but you can't use that as a crutch as to why it's selling less than Halo, and why MP:E likely won't do as well as Halo 2 (I'd love to eat crow for this one). How did the Resident Evil series sell on PSX/DC/PS2 as opposed to the RE games on GC? Who got stuck on what puzzle? How many of those people were 'newcomers inflating game sales'?

You mention level design... Though I haven't played the legendary difficulty in Halo 2, legendary in the original required expert use of pretty much everything in a level. Use obstacles to hide behind for cover, to pin Elites against with grenades, etc. It isn't like they opened their level editor and just place stuff randomly because it looked good.

And as far as story telling... heh.

I feel like Kerry, flip-flopped from defending Metroid to defending Halo. :lol

 

[Ford Prefect]

Little does the competition know... minimal marketing is the future of video games!

 

[etiolate]

You don't need to defend Halo, I don't mean to attack it. I was just going into Metroid Prime's qualities.

You forget that some of the 'fratboys' grew up on Metroid. One of my best friends isn't even close to a gamer, but he has a Gamecube with Mario, Zelda, and Metroid because that's what we grew up playing as kids. Yeah the game isn't immediately accessible, but you can't use that as a crutch as to why it's selling less than Halo, and why MP:E likely won't do as well as Halo 2 (I'd love to eat crow for this one). How did the Resident Evil series sell on PSX/DC/PS2 as opposed to the RE games on GC? Who got stuck on what puzzle? How many of those people were 'newcomers inflating game sales'?

Someone who grew up on Nintendo isn't what I am talking about. Newcomers are people who passed over videogames before and are now buying them at an older age.

I am not sure why RE sells less now, but the puzzles are a bit different. Eviroment puzzles aren't always even apparent at first, but RE's 'put the box together' stuff is obviously a puzzle when you see it.

 

[geogaddi]

IGN really seems to have changed Fran. Anyone remember Dolphin Cove and how she started N-Sider? Now she's like Matt Jr. Poor girl.

Fran is a girl?

 

[Mashing]

The problem is NCL.... they know fuck all what American gamers want. I do feel bad for NOA as I think they could be great if they were left up to their own devices.

I'll be glad with the old guard at Nintendo is retired... they need some new younger blood to breathe new life into the company. I'd first start by making NCL, NOA and NOE their own entities allowed to make their own marketing and development decisions.

 

[Tenguman]

My 12 year old cousin said it best last july-4th

him: "I love Halo!"
me: "You ever played Metroid Prime?"
him: "I didn't like that game. It was too hard."

 

[Jonnyboy117]

If the guys at IGN would STFU about Nintendo and quite playing armchair CEO and cover their games instead, they could... I don't know... be part of the solution instead of the problem?

And how would they do that? By shouting to the masses "Nintendo fucking owns!" on a daily basis? By scoring all Nintendo games in the stratosphere because they're such big fans and the company is so great? By interviewing execs with questions like, "So what makes Nintendo so cool?"? By writing editorials about how everything is peachy and super in the world of Nintendo, even as the games get fewer and worse and our exclusive games are canceled or ported to other systems?

I guess you and I disagree about where the problem lies.

 

[Ford Prefect]

My 12 year old cousin said it best last july-4th

him: "I love Halo!"
me: "You ever played Metroid Prime?"
him: "I didn't like that game. It was too hard."

Man, your 12-year-old cousin's a major wuss.

 

[vitaflo]

And how would they do that? By shouting to the masses "Nintendo fucking owns!" on a daily basis? By scoring all Nintendo games in the stratosphere because they're such big fans and the company is so great? By interviewing execs with questions like, "So what makes Nintendo so cool?"? By writing editorials about how everything is peachy and super in the world of Nintendo, even as the games get fewer and worse and our exclusive games are canceled or ported to other systems?

They could start by not bitching about Nintendo contributing to a good cause. I mean really, Nintendo is actually doing something good in the world and here they are using it to complain about software sales and advertising budgets.

There's plenty of things to diss on Nintendo about, but lets get some priorities straight here.

 

[drohne]

this topic was waiting for you, etoliate. the idea that metroid prime is just too good and too smart for knuckledragging casuals is pulled right from your ongoing polemic. here's a revelation: nintendo is not morally superior.

another: there is no pleasure to be derived from the grossly illiterate pseudoscience in prime's barren scan logs. "the chozo foundling has penetrated the sector 42 phazon research core!" your tastes would have to run very geeky and very crude to relate to this nonsense at all. at least halo laces its sci-fi hooey with moments of character and humor. there probably are games that are just too subtle or recondite for mass consumption. prime plainly isn't one of them; the scan text is a dead giveaway. theduce is closer to the truth than you'd like.

and you've actually managed to underestimate fratboys. somehow. nintendo's games are thoroughly accessible. they're not designed to exclude. neither children nor fratboys nor exceptionally clever apes should have trouble with the perfunctory spatial puzzles in zelda or metroid. any fratboy who couldn't persist in pushing a block around for a couple minutes would surely be scared off by halo's firefights as well.

do you honestly believe that it takes thought to navigate prime's environments, or was that just another bullet point in a silly rebuttal? do you suppose the prototypical halo-playing fratboy has gone blind from extended circlejerk sessions? i wonder whether you've played halo. its environments are more naturalistic and thus more confusing than metroid's videogamey playgrounds. it's often unclear where a room's exits are, or just which outdoor path you're meant to take. this difficulty isn't a virtue; it's actually quite irritating. but it's nonetheless there.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

My 12 year old cousin said it best last july-4th

him: "I love Halo!"
me: "You ever played Metroid Prime?"
him: "I didn't like that game. It was too hard."

hardcore Nintendo fans don't get left alone with young cousins.

I do not believe this news.

 

[UltimateMarioMan]

him: "I love Halo!"
me: "You ever played Metroid Prime?"
him: "I didn't like that game. It was too hard."

Shoot me!

 

[ManaByte]

Fran is a girl?

No, he's Gollum and Nintendo is his precious.

 

[Deg]

No, he's Gollum and Nintendo is his precious.

Pretty sad. Dont follow Golum's path.

 

[Christberg]

And how would they do that? By shouting to the masses "Nintendo fucking owns!" on a daily basis? By scoring all Nintendo games in the stratosphere because they're such big fans and the company is so great? By interviewing execs with questions like, "So what makes Nintendo so cool?"? By writing editorials about how everything is peachy and super in the world of Nintendo, even as the games get fewer and worse and our exclusive games are canceled or ported to other systems?

I guess you and I disagree about where the problem lies.

That's not what I'm saying here AT ALL. You're missing the point. The point is, instead of writing an editorial about how they think Nintendo should be run and how X game isn't getting enough hype from Nintendo, they could use that time and energy to hype the game instead. IGN, more than any other mainstream site, is guilty of repeatedly slamming Nintendo's business decisions and on the flip side of the coin not taking time to really talk about what's available- and then simply shrugging off the mistakes other companies make. It's not like Sony or MS are anywhere near perfect by any stretch. Did anybody ever ask Robbie Bach why PGR2 sold like ass compared to the first one? Did they ever write an editorial about how MS' Live enabled sequels seem to seel much worse than their non live enabled counterparts? did they ever ask Sony what the PSP's battery life is with WiFi turned on and using speakers instead? Nope.

They're running a mainstream site, with millions of hits a day, that influences the perceptions gamers have of certain products. They have a pretty large say (relatively speaking) in how Nintendo is viewed in the marketplace. For them to slam one company wholesale at every given opportunity and ignore the problems of their competitors is disengenuous to their audience and takes up space, time and manpower that would better serve their customers (paying I might add, myself included) by simply covering games instead of offering opinions either direction about the companies making them.

You know, I'd love to see a site that covers all 3 platforms, doesn't bullshit around on ANY of the companies, and really has hard hitting, analytical interviews with ALL the companies' execs for a change. Game journalism has a long, long way to go before we see something like that, though.

It's fine for them to ask N executives tough questions, like, say "how will Nintendo reach out to older gamers?" "How does Nintendo intend to have competitive marketing ewith companies that have much larger revenue streams?" etc. It's not OK for them to whine incessantly about how Nintendo sucks because they wouldn't give them some exclusive and how they didn't buy their mother flowers or whatever else in a fucking mail column.

Especially when you're paying them for that content.

In the end, whether it's intentional or not, IGN comes across as "having it out" for Nintendo, and it was really, really old some time ago.

Do bear in mind that, on top of that, I don't like overly fanboyish sites either that think every single game from a given competitor will absolutely rule either and find that just as annoying.

 

[xexex]

Nintendo has 2 much more lucrative handhelds in the pipeline, animation, licensing and a future console. They could care less about the Gamecube, apparently. They've bigger and better things to focus on.

I believe this.

 

[WordofGod]

The problem is NCL.... they know fuck all what American gamers want. I do feel bad for NOA as I think they could be great if they were left up to their own devices.

Do you think that Nintendo is the Disney of videogames?

 

[etiolate]

this topic was waiting for you, etoliate. the idea that metroid prime is just too good and too smart for knuckledragging casuals is pulled right from your ongoing polemic. here's a revelation: nintendo is not morally superior.

another: there is no pleasure to be derived from the grossly illiterate pseudoscience in prime's barren scan logs. "the chozo foundling has penetrated the sector 42 phazon research core!" your tastes would have to run very geeky and very crude to relate to this nonsense at all. at least halo laces its sci-fi hooey with moments of character and humor. there probably are games that are just too subtle or recondite for mass consumption. prime plainly isn't one of them; the scan text is a dead giveaway. theduce is closer to the truth than you'd like.

and you've actually managed to underestimate fratboys. somehow. nintendo's games are thoroughly accessible. they're not designed to exclude. neither children nor fratboys nor exceptionally clever apes should have trouble with the perfunctory spatial puzzles in zelda or metroid. any fratboy who couldn't persist in pushing a block around for a couple minutes would surely be scared off by halo's firefights as well.

do you honestly believe that it takes thought to navigate prime's environments, or was that just another bullet point in a silly rebuttal? do you suppose the prototypical halo-playing fratboy has gone blind from extended circlejerk sessions? i wonder whether you've played halo. its environments are more naturalistic and thus more confusing than metroid's videogamey playgrounds. it's often unclear where a room's exits are, or just which outdoor path you're meant to take. this difficulty isn't a virtue; it's actually quite irritating. but it's nonetheless there.

I'll clarify some things and then I'll answer in reverse.

1. This isn't "nintendo games are too hard" for "neandrathals". I do look down a bit on people I see as just jumping a trend, but there are games not made by Nintendo that would qualify for this. I am just sucking at thinking of some to show my point. All I can think of is Dues Ex and Lufia. I know there should be more games like this, maybe BG&E with some of its dungeon puzzles. I think you are making it a Nintendo issue in order to push a negative category on me. If I am wrong, then drop the sass.

2. As I stated before I am not attacking Halo. I don't even mean to specify Halo. I mean to specify FPS games and their usual routines. I am speaking of a certain type of buyer, somone likely to buy Halo 2. Not you playing Halo 2.


Yes, it takes thought to navigate prime's enviroments. I have observed this first hand in watching someone play Prime who has less game experience than myself. I got furstrated having to point out what felt obvious to me, but it made me realize something when I saw people just go through a game just guns blazing. I don't know why you even ask if I think that when the statement you question explains how it takes more thought due to the path not being obvious. You even state the paths not being obvious in Halo, but dismiss that same element from Prime.

Yes, Nintendo games are accessible. No, the puzzles aren't easy for a new person to comprehend. You have to use your brain to figure them out, you have to think in order to do them. I have observed someone outside my personal game experience try this and it was interesting.

Well the logs do have their own charm and humor, which replaces the lack of characters to provide that. There seems to be a misunderstanding though. My statement was in regards to how the story is told and not the story itself.

I am not saying the story is better than Halo, just the way that it's told is possibly more clever.

I can explain my idea here if you want.

 

[neptunes]

I've been considering to volunteer for habitat humanity.

 

[etiolate]

Yeah, lost in all this is that the promotion was actually a pretty cool thing to do. I think Perrin Kaplan might be responsible for it.

 

[Duck of Death]

Holy crap Metroid Prime is a controversial game.

metroid prime sucks because its a nintendo game and nintendo fans have coodies

GET HIM!!!

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

The argument that Nintendo are riding out the GC saving all their focus for the Revolution is bull. If Nintendo's current attitude is that the GC is dead and therefore not worth putting too much effort behind, does that mean that they thought it's been dead since launch, 'cause there approach has been marketedly consistent (consistently indifferent).

Face it we heard the exact same thing at the end of the N64's life. Nintendo always seem to be saving themselves for the next fight without ever addressing the fight they have in their laps right now.

 

[Wellington]

I'll clarify some things and then I'll answer in reverse.

1. This isn't "nintendo games are too hard" for "neandrathals". I do look down a bit on people I see as just jumping a trend, but there are games not made by Nintendo that would qualify for this. I am just sucking at thinking of some to show my point. All I can think of is Dues Ex and Lufia. I know there should be more games like this, maybe BG&E with some of its dungeon puzzles. I think you are making it a Nintendo issue in order to push a negative category on me. If I am wrong, then drop the sass.

2. As I stated before I am not attacking Halo. I don't even mean to specify Halo. I mean to specify FPS games and their usual routines. I am speaking of a certain type of buyer, somone likely to buy Halo 2. Not you playing Halo 2.


Yes, it takes thought to navigate prime's enviroments. I have observed this first hand in watching someone play Prime who has less game experience than myself. I got furstrated having to point out what felt obvious to me, but it made me realize something when I saw people just go through a game just guns blazing. I don't know why you even ask if I think that when the statement you question explains how it takes more thought due to the path not being obvious. You even state the paths not being obvious in Halo, but dismiss that same element from Prime.

Yes, Nintendo games are accessible. No, the puzzles aren't easy for a new person to comprehend. You have to use your brain to figure them out, you have to think in order to do them. I have observed someone outside my personal game experience try this and it was interesting.

Well the logs do have their own charm and humor, which replaces the lack of characters to provide that. There seems to be a misunderstanding though. My statement was in regards to how the story is told and not the story itself.

I can explain my idea here if you want.

So what you're saying is that games with puzzles will not sell well...? Lucky I'm not a sales whore...

 

[Jonnyboy117]

Did anybody ever ask Robbie Bach why PGR2 sold like ass compared to the first one? Did they ever write an editorial about how MS' Live enabled sequels seem to seel much worse than their non live enabled counterparts? did they ever ask Sony what the PSP's battery life is with WiFi turned on and using speakers instead? Nope.

...

You know, I'd love to see a site that covers all 3 platforms, doesn't bullshit around on ANY of the companies, and really has hard hitting, analytical interviews with ALL the companies' execs for a change. Game journalism has a long, long way to go before we see something like that, though.

Here's the problem with what you propose. The questions you want to be asked to the execs will all get bullshit PR spin replies that have been rehearsed and recited a dozen times. All execs will spin answers, but if you can ask something pointed and well researched, you may give them pause and make them actually tell what they think, or give some real information that hasn't been processed and reprocessed through three PR reps.

You say you want gaming journalism to mature and evolve, but you also say that you want gaming sites to spend all their time promoting games. That's what Entertainment Weekly and those fucks on the TV Guide Channel do. They promote. They are corporate mouthpieces. They get sponsored and comped by these companies so they can reach out to America and say what a great movie this is going to be, or how fresh and "street" this hot young musician is. That's not journalism. Nor is being an armchair CEO journalism. But we who care about this industry and want to see it furthered feel the need to present the truth to our readers. Whether it's in an editorial or review or interview or whatever, that often means saying things that the companies don't want to hear and the fanboys don't want to hear. It means asking questions that the execs don't want to answer but can't easily shrug aside with a "No comment" or "I can't talk about that yet". It means looking at press releases and being able to say "this is bullshit".

Fran's point about marketing and the Habitat donation has some validity, but it's too narrow to be a good indicator of what Nintendo is doing overall. What bothers me more about this press release is that Nintendo is donating the doors not only out of generosity but also to promote their new game. The gimmick nature of the gift and the fact that they are telling everyone about it and making sure to include press materials for the game is what bothers me. They do a much better job with the hospital gaming kiosks for sick kids and other charities.

 

[etiolate]

So what you're saying is that games with puzzles will not sell well...? Lucky I'm not a sales whore...

You know there's this issue and then a seperate statement from the closed lemurs thread, so its getting kind of convulated.

 

[Che]

Metroid is new.

I honestly had only heard about it in passing before the GCN generation started. I really don't think your average videogame player has any idea of its lineage from the NES and SNES days.

Metroid's problem is that's its too "upscale" to become a mainstream commercial hit. Its gameplay rewards roll out slowly, its visuals are distinct and stylized, and the atmospherics moody and storyline esoteric. Halo on the other hand is generic and SUPER-SiZED! Its gameplay is all about blowing shit up, the visuals are nothing a 5th grader couldn't conjor up, its character a faceless, nameless, bad-ass good-guy. Not taking any creative chances... but fits the bill for anybody looking for the big-budget, big-thrills, shoot-em up.

Nintendo would have to litterarly go out of its way to make a generic, americanized franchise game to repeat the success of Halo. Sadly, the older audiences for videogames are much less willing than the kiddies to try games not grounded in culturally familiar experiences.

Its all come down to sports and guns.

Great post. You described exactly what I feel for Halo. Halo looks to me a lot like a Hollywood movie. It's loud, it has explosions, everyone is gonna see it, but deep down it's nothing more than a movie for the brainless crowd, and not for me.

 

[MASB]

So Fran was a founder of N-Sider.com?

What's with N-Sider anyway? I feel like I've been reading the same article for weeks now. Like 3 articles in 3 weeks about how Nintendo is complacent, stuck in a rut, doesn't innovate, relies too much on old franchises. Wouldn't one article have been enough? Why do we need a weekly/biweekly article saying the same thing over and over again?

 

[WordofGod]

Halo looks to me a lot like a Hollywood movie. It's loud, it has explosions, everyone is gonna see it, but deep down it's nothing more than a movie for the brainless crowd, and not for me.

Wow. So now Halo is the first videogame equivalent to Hollywood Blockbuster?

 

[jedimike]

2. As I stated before I am not attacking Halo. I don't even mean to specify Halo. I mean to specify FPS games and their usual routines. I am speaking of a certain type of buyer, somone likely to buy Halo 2. Not you playing Halo 2.

What's the last FPS you played? Certainly not anything created within the last 10 years. There is certainly more to a FPS than strapping on a gun and going hell bent. There is a ton of strategy and skill involved. If you don't understand that, then you can't comprehend why the genre is so popular.

People like to over-generalize games... If anything, Nintendo is certainly not known for being the "thinking man's" gaming company of choice.

I think Nintendo donating doors is a great idea. It's really only a fraction of their budget and they can claim it all back at tax time anyway... Nintendo fans and media freaking out about their advertising campaign are ridiculous. Nintendo has great media coverage. Excellent commercials and print ads.

I could go on and on about why I think Nintendo is faltering in the console arena, but media coverage is at the bottom of the list of reasons.

 

[drohne]

etiolate - i'll leave the console politics and the sass. but i don't see that metroid prime's "storytelling" method has much potential. acquiring information by scanning objects inherently lends itself to the sort of pretendypoo jargon that prime lamentably traffics in. at worst it resembles the inane descriptions you'd read in old nes instruction booklets: "COMMYLOOSE: A MONSTER THAT LIVES UNDERGROUND." even at best it's terribly dry.

could you, in theory, tell an interesting story largely through histories and pseudoscientific descriptions of objects? i dunno...maybe if you somehow coerced thomas pynchon into writing the script. but i don't think it's likely.

funny thing, but if you go for all that peripheral world detail, you'd probably dig ilovebees, or the halo 2 instruction manual, or that little pamphlet of dialogues it comes with.

 

[Azih]

I think the cube.ign bashing is kinda stupid here. Especially since what you're advocating is just too similar to the last days of dc.ign.com. God dammit I hated that site, the 'Sega Scream' editorials where they blamed everybody in the world EXCEPT SEGA for the demise of the Dreamcast were painful to read.


In any case, a lot of the people acting condescending towards Halo do not seem to have kept up with FPS's at all. Deus Ex, Half Life, the Thief series... these are all like 5 years old people, the genre has evolved greatly.

 

[Wellington]

This argument is so completely off base now. The original problem was that Nintendo and Metroid Prime Echoes stood no chance against the sales of Halo because of the lack of appropriate advertising... Now it's devolved into which game is better and smarter?

I'll ignore all of the console posturing and stroking, but what do you seriously expect? Metroid looks outright boring at first glance from a casual. Even though I completely disagree with Che, it's like the summer blockbuster season, who'd pay to go see a movie that's for purported braniacs such as Nintendo and it's fans and (according to some here) not be able to understand the first sentence in the movie when they can check out a flick that caters to them and their desire to see action? It doesn't matter which game is better or how much each fanboy of their respective company wills the game to sell if there is no mass appeal or at least some kind of exposure within the mainstream media. You may consider the general gaming public stupid and since they are buying Halo, it must be a game for stupid people, but the public isn't stupid enough to get burned by buying a game sight unseen, and by the same token they aren't smart enough to mysteriously know when a game is geared toward them without any sort of information.

Saying that the way the 'story' in MP was presented is better than how the story in any game is presented is outright laughable. It's far too easy to miss a scan, making the player miss out on details, the 'story' ends up being horribly disjointed, and what exactly am I supposed to glean from entries akin to those found in RE... "Today I fed the specimen a different vitamin... he is growing stronger... may attack me and kill everyone else."

 

[snapty00]

I think the cube.ign bashing is kinda stupid here. Especially since what you're advocating is just too similar to the last days of dc.ign.com. God dammit I hated that site, the 'Sega Scream' editorials where they blamed everybody in the world EXCEPT SEGA for the demise of the Dreamcast were painful to read.

That's basically what IGNcube is doing, too. They're blaming the ads when the real problem is the games on the system.

 

[Christberg]

Here's the problem with what you propose. The questions you want to be asked to the execs will all get bullshit PR spin replies that have been rehearsed and recited a dozen times. All execs will spin answers, but if you can ask something pointed and well researched, you may give them pause and make them actually tell what they think, or give some real information that hasn't been processed and reprocessed through three PR reps.

You say you want gaming journalism to mature and evolve, but you also say that you want gaming sites to spend all their time promoting games. That's what Entertainment Weekly and those fucks on the TV Guide Channel do. They promote. They are corporate mouthpieces. They get sponsored and comped by these companies so they can reach out to America and say what a great movie this is going to be, or how fresh and "street" this hot young musician is. That's not journalism. Nor is being an armchair CEO journalism. But we who care about this industry and want to see it furthered feel the need to present the truth to our readers. Whether it's in an editorial or review or interview or whatever, that often means saying things that the companies don't want to hear and the fanboys don't want to hear. It means asking questions that the execs don't want to answer but can't easily shrug aside with a "No comment" or "I can't talk about that yet". It means looking at press releases and being able to say "this is bullshit".

Fran's point about marketing and the Habitat donation has some validity, but it's too narrow to be a good indicator of what Nintendo is doing overall. What bothers me more about this press release is that Nintendo is donating the doors not only out of generosity but also to promote their new game. The gimmick nature of the gift and the fact that they are telling everyone about it and making sure to include press materials for the game is what bothers me. They do a much better job with the hospital gaming kiosks for sick kids and other charities.

You know, that's all fine and dandy and all, but obviously we have some sort of wierd communication barrier where I basically agree with everything your saying in principle here, but the key point is...

Where Microsoft and Sony are concerned IGN pretty much just covers their games and doesn't say anything bad about the companies involved, but at any given moment you can expect some sort of anti Nintendo rant, often in really inapporopriate places and it just gets damn old. I'm saying, quite simply, that IGN needs a consistent approach one way or the other, and the fact that they don't have one makes them look amateurish on regular occasion. "OMG Iwata said graphics aren't everything! That must mean their next system will look worse than PS1 with 900 attachments!" "d00d! Halo 2 is like, the best thing ever. Robbie Bach is a god among men, and handsome, to boot!"

I'm not insinuating that I prefer sites where every single game is the best fucking thing ever by any stretch. That said, just give me honest, straightforward judgement on what's available for a system without all the industry whining and I'll be happy. Get it?

 

[ManaByte]

I'm not insinuating that I prefer sites where every single game is the best fucking thing ever by any stretch. That said, just give me honest, straightforward judgement on what's available for a system without all the industry whining and I'll be happy. Get it?

They are doing exactly that, Nintendo fans just don't want to face reality. Nintendo is making money, yes. But they are so out of touch with the direction the industry is going, they deserve a site like IGN to slap them upside the head with a fleeting hope that someone at Nintendo may be listening.

 

[etiolate]

etiolate - i'll leave the console politics and the sass. but i don't see that metroid prime's "storytelling" method has much potential. acquiring information by scanning objects inherently lends itself to the sort of pretendypoo jargon that prime lamentably traffics in. at worst it resembles the inane descriptions you'd read in old nes instruction booklets: "COMMYLOOSE: A MONSTER THAT LIVES UNDERGROUND." even at best it's terribly dry.

I wouldn't want it all told through scans or like books found here and there. I would want more of what Super Metroid did, telling the story without a word but by acting it out. The sequances in that game involving the baby metroid are great. There were no words, but you understood what was going on. I do like reading that the Space Pirates are trying to copy you in Prime, because it kind of characterizes a set group that has no invidual character. What I like is non-intrusive story telling with the ability to play out the story yourself. You can read a scanlog if you want or not. I love the Chozo lore scanlogs. Someone else can just preceed if they have little interest though. It's not constant interruption like MGS or even GTA.

And I like those wacky named monsters with tidbits of detail from '-bit' days. Less info can make the objects of a game more abstract and that allows for my imagination on the player's part and better identification. I think one of the reasons Master Cheif is popular and that he's a western character that you actually see in Cosplay is because he has a mask. You can't see his face, he becomes a bit more abstract and the player can identify as being him more.

Saying that the way the 'story' in MP was presented is better than how the story in any game is presented is outright laughable.

You know you are putting words in my mouth. I said it's a clever way of doing it. I think there's lots of potential in the type of storytelling I described above. I think it takes advantage of the media in a better way.

Halo being a summer blockbuster action flick and Metroid being a Drama is perhaps a good analogy.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I think IGN is mad that Nintendo is doing charity work at all. The point they were making is that nihilism is what sells to the young male these days. Doing charity work wont get you respect with that market... but a cynical, amoral corporate attitude will. Kids these days, more-or-less, hate the world and use videogames as a way to express thier disdain for it via virtual-violence. That's the point IGNfran was trying to make.


Not that I agree with that assement, but that's what I took away from that little screed against the 1000 doors PR.

 

[drohne]

Halo being a summer blockbuster action flick and Metroid being a Drama is perhaps a good analogy.

yeah, where halo is about shooting aliens, metroid is an incisive character study of war widows in 1950s prague.

you're really plumbing depths to make metroid prime appear highbrow. here's a poor, but nonetheless better analogy: halo is aliens, metroid is alien.

 

[etiolate]

I say Drama because Metroid is a bit mellower, You aren't in the middle of a war or anything.

There's blockbuster action flicks I love, its not like I am saying Halo is Pearl Harbour and Metroid is American Beauty. Blockbusters have hype. Metroid does not. Dramas don't normally get a ton of hype regardless of quality.

 

[drohne]

throughout this thread you've cast vague lifestyle aspersions on halo and anyone who likes it. that was the only purpose of your "fratboy" and "hollywood blockbuster" lines, and it's unbecoming to backpedal now. feel free to sneer at people who don't like the games you like -- i do it all the time -- but don't fool yourself.

metroid is not a drama because it has no dramatic elements whatsoever. no characters, virtually no plot, and no ideas. metroid prime is sedate, but it is not highbrow. do you think metroid prime is highbrow?

american beauty was vulgar and ordinary. and it had plenty of hype. though i don't share your fixation on hype.

 

[Ramirez]

Do you think the Eagles could contain Samus to 250 rushing yards Duce? :lol

 

[etiolate]

How about this analogy:

Halo = game drohne likes
Metroid = game drohne dislikes

And you can't get past that. We had moved on to ways to tell a story in a game and now you're back to insulting. All because I made an analogy based on what someone else said. One you didn't even understand.

 

[drohne]

that isn't an analogy at all.

look, i understand your explanation of your analogy. i just reject it as false. "metroid is a drama because it doesn't have hype?" what?

if i'm tetchy, it's because i've been successfully trolled by gahiggidy, and because you're being evasive. discussion of storytelling methods has been exhausted. here's what interests me: do you think metroid prime is highbrow?

 

[etiolate]

I am not sure what you mean by highbrow. The only game that I've played that would make me think of 'highbrow' at all would be Eternal Darkness, just because it has historical references that some people might not know. I don't really know if games can be highbrow. At least not till the industry matures.

I think Prime has many videogame-centric elements: wrap around level design, not many straight paths, attention to detail, puzzles and boss attack patterns that aren't just dodge and shoot. Just longtime videogame elements that may turn off a casual. A game like Bomberman Generations has many elements that would turn off or stump a casual newcomer and Bomberman certainly isn't highbrow. This sort of stuff I consider game logic. For example: You walk into a room and the next door won't open. "There is likely a puzzle to solve to open it or a key somewhere" are normally some of my first thoughts. If there some object that can be manipulated in a room it likely has a purpose. This isn't part of a pre-existing knowledge for casual newcomers. They find a door that won't open and might just leave or even try hitting it a thousand times. Perhaps casuals love Madden, because they already know the rules of football. I already know the rules of many types of videogames. A problem Prime might have, infact does have, is that it appears like a FPS at first but isn't governed by the rules of FPS games. It uses the rules of adventure games instead.

 

[sc0la]

EDIT:
oops mother fuck, forgot I was reading AN OLD ASS THREAD. please lock this and spare me a cruel fate.

 

[etiolate]

haha now I want to know what you said