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[Ezalc]

Can you provide a link or source?

I've read it a few times on GAF. Usually when people mention playing the games on the Dolphin emulator because I think it has a sub HD option or something. I'm not entirely sure though, and seeing that other member's response it looks like it's kind of a half-truth.

 

[Lonely1]

A single 580, actually (which I very much doubt they can, really).
Which, by the way, that single GPU uses almost as much power as the entire launch 360 console...
It's just not going to happen.

Considerably more, actually.

 

[DragonKnight]

A single 580, actually (which I very much doubt they can, really).
Which, by the way, that single GPU uses almost as much power as the entire launch 360 console...
It's just not going to happen.

Jesus Christ. Consoles the sizes of arcade cabinets confirmed. Where can one go to become more technically learned?

 

[Grakl]

It would be nice if nintendo did go all out again tech wise or at least really future proof the console. I'm no CEO but it would be foolish to release something that will be outdated in a matter of months. That's like saying "hey consumers come buy our system where you can play shittier versions of third party games". Oh well...I always end up with two consoles per generation anyway.

Say that to... well... the people who thought of the Wii.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

A single 580, actually (which I very much doubt they can, really).
Which, by the way, that single GPU uses almost as much power as the entire launch 360 console...
It's just not going to happen.

Yeah 580, my bad, noticed that after I posted. And forgive me if I take Epic's word on it over a random forum-goer.

And like I said, 2 years is a lonnnnnng time for GPU tech... the power consumption will go down dramatically and everything will be more powerful. Two years is huge in that industry.

Take a look back at the tech that was released 2 years ago from today... it's a monumental leap.

 

[H_Prestige]

You can't compare the transition from GBA to DS, with the transition from GC to Wii. In the first case was obviously a big step. In the second one...almost nothing.

DS and 3DS are in that curve, the thing is that PSP and NGP are above that level.

If the claim is that Nintendo is usually not behind their competitors' tech, then DS and 3DS absolutely count. There's really nothing special about what is inside NGP. It's just a doubled up iPad. Nintendo could have gone with something like Apple or Samsung and still make massive hardware profit.

 

[DragonKnight]

If this was the case, no company would ever release a console and we'd all be gaming exclusively on top of the line PCs...

You know what i mean. Or maybe you don't. I'm taking about the PS4 and 720. The PC realm is a different ball game

 

[AceBandage]

Yeah 580, my bad, noticed that after I posted. And forgive me if I take Epic's word on it over a random forum-goer.

And like I said, 2 years is a lonnnnnng time for GPU tech... the power consumption will go down dramatically and everything will be more powerful. Two years is huge in that industry.

As it is, there's no indication that it'll happen. And if it does, we're looking at $500-600 consoles again.

 

[Mr_Brit]

A single 580, actually (which I very much doubt they can, really).
Which, by the way, that single GPU uses almost as much power as the entire launch 360 console...
It's just not going to happen.

Do you know how optimisation works? Even Uncharted 2 ran in the low teens in its initial versions and went to 30FPS locked in the final versions. Epic Samaritan also ran on a tri SLI system which are known to not offer perfect scaling which means most of the time it probably only used like 2.3x the power of 1 GPU.

What makes you think Epic who know their engine better than anyone else would lie about something like that?

 

[Barack Lesnar]

As it is, there's no indication that it'll happen. And if it does, we're looking at $500-600 consoles again.

Personally, I'm OK with $399-499. Consumers are getting more and more used to spending good money on gadgets and other electronic devices.

Do you know how optimisation works? Even Uncharted 2 ran in the low teens in its initial versions and went to 30FPS locked in the final versions. Epic Samaritan also ran on a TRI-SLI system which are known to not offer perfect scaling which means most of the time it probably only used like 2.3x the power of 1 GPU.

What makes you think Epic who know their engine better than anyone else would lie about something like that?

I dunno what you're talking about. AceBandage clearly knows more about optimization than Epic. /snark

 

[DragonKnight]

Say that to... well... the people who thought of the Wii.

In some respects I kinda disappointed that the Wii gamble worked out so well for nintendo.

 

[DragonKnight]

Do you know how optimisation works? Even Uncharted 2 ran in the low teens in its initial versions and went to 30FPS locked in the final versions. Epic Samaritan also ran on a tri SLI system which are known to not offer perfect scaling which means most of the time it probably only used like 2.3x the power of 1 GPU.

What makes you think Epic who know their engine better than anyone else would lie about something like that?

To be fair, Iwata did say that the Wii's graphics would wow us. And Sony promised us Toy Story graphics on the PS2. We've been lied to before.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

To be fair, Iwata did say that the Wii's graphics would wow us. And Sony promised us Toy Story graphics on the PS2. We've been lied to before.

I don't really see the correlation there. Doesn't seem that comparable... one is a console manufacturer, one is a third-party developer that licenses out its engine for a major source of income, so lying and/or exaggerating about that probably isn't a good idea.

 

[BY2K]

Personally, I'm OK with $399-499. Consumers are getting more and more used to spending good money on gadgets and other electronic devices.

Fat man, please!

Nintendo would NEVER release a console 499$, heck even 399$. Their most expensive console to date is the Wii, which was released at 299$ (In Canada).

No way a Nintendo console would be 400 or 500.

 

[H_Prestige]

Cafe will be at least $350. Expecting less is foolish.

 

[AceBandage]

Do you know how optimisation works? Even Uncharted 2 ran in the low teens in its initial versions and went to 30FPS locked in the final versions. Epic Samaritan also ran on a tri SLI system which are known to not offer perfect scaling which means most of the time it probably only used like 2.3x the power of 1 GPU.

What makes you think Epic who know their engine better than anyone else would lie about something like that?

Of course they'll optimize it. I just don't think they'll get it to run fully on a single 580. And again, even if they do, that will put it out of the range of consoles.
The reason Epic is pushing this is to try and get console makers to go batshit insane again, but after losing billions this gen, I just don't see it happening.

 

[Lonely1]

If the claim is that Nintendo is usually not behind their competitors' tech, then DS and 3DS absolutely count. There's really nothing special about what is inside NGP. It's just a doubled up iPad. Nintendo could have gone with something like Apple or Samsung and still make massive hardware profit.

Again, if the 3DS was underpowered in that sense (lol, gimped chips) It wouldn't have the Battery life woes its currently experiencing. A Power VR solution would have been better? All points to yes, but NGP level? Consider that the NGP was reported to necessarily be that big due to heat dissipation problems and maybe an A5-like chip wouldn't be ready for the projected launch, specially since the hardware model of consoles and Apple is different (developers didn't had access to the A5 until it was shipped last March). Maybe it wasn't a realistic option, and the other option that Nintendo was reportedly managing (Tegra II) is still far behind the latest PowerVR chip.

Comparing the 3DS to non Power VR solutions,it doesn't compare that badly imo. Just look at SSFIV vs that Bruce Lee game for the $400+ Xperia Play.

 

[DragonKnight]

I don't really see the correlation there. Doesn't seem that comparable... one is a console manufacturer, one is a third-party developer that licenses out its engine for a major source of income, so lying and/or exaggerating about that probably isn't a good idea.

I'll admit it was a stretch but a lie is a lie none the less. I just watched the tech video again and i'm gonna take a believe it when i see it approach.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Fat man, please!

Nintendo would NEVER release a console 499$, heck even 399$. Their most expensive console to date is the Wii, which was released at 299$ (In Canada).

No way a Nintendo console would be 400 or 500.

True, but that's not going to be the case forever. Inflation and just prices for everything going up in the future simply won't allow that to happen. You think the console Nintendo releases in 10 years is still gonna be $199-299? The 3DS is already $250 in present time. I wouldn't be surprised if Cafe is around $350-399, which like I said would be cool with me and I think most early adopters.

 

[dwu8991]

Cafe will be at least $350. Expecting less is foolish.

$399 with a pack in game + touchscreen controller! Day 1

 

[Mr_Brit]

Of course they'll optimize it. I just don't think they'll get it to run fully on a single 580. And again, even if they do, that will put it out of the range of consoles.
The reason Epic is pushing this is to try and get console makers to go batshit insane again, but after losing billions this gen, I just don't see it happening.

Only Sony is losing billions, if it wasn't for RROD, the 360 would have been profitable in a much shorter time than it took. Consoles this gen will also reuse a lot of the same components which weren't in use in the PS2 gen which made the PS3 and 360 more expensive. They're also much more adept at designing hardware now as evidenced by the PS3 slim and 360 slim which are much better designed than the jokes that were the launch PS3 and 360. Sony and MS have no reason to go for $100+ losses from launch like last gen as they'll be using mature technology this time around.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

$399 with a pack in game + touchscreen controller! Day 1

I'd be in line with you for that, assuming the game was AAA.

The controller has me super intrigued. Was not a fan at all of the Wiimote and Nunchuk so I like this semi-return to form... a good balance of traditional + new stuff.

 

[BY2K]

$399 with a pack in game + touchscreen controller! Day 1

If hardware delivers, yeah, I'll be there day 1.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Again, if the 3DS was underpowered in that sense (lol, gimped chips) It wouldn't have the Battery life woes its currently experiencing. A Power VR solution would have been better? All points to yes, but NGP level? Consider that the NGP was reported to necessarily be that big due to heat dissipation problems and maybe an A5-like chip wouldn't be ready for the projected launch, specially since the hardware model of consoles and Apple is different (developers didn't had access to the A5 until it was shipped last March). Maybe it wasn't a realistic option, and the other option that Nintendo was reportedly managing (Tegra II) is still far behind the latest PowerVR chip.

Comparing the 3DS to non Power VR solutions,it doesn't compare that badly imo. Just look at SSFIV vs that Bruce Lee game for the $400+ Xperia Play.

Lol, you're comparing dedicated handheld games to mobile games? Most PSP games look a lot better than iphone games, does that mean the PSP is more powerful than the iphone?

Also, several devs like Epic had access to the A5 months before the ipad shipped.

 

[Kibbles]

The Wii only has 88MB of RAM?

 

[DragonKnight]

Only Sony is losing billions, if it wasn't for RROD, the 360 would have been profitable in a much shorter time than it took. Consoles this gen will also reuse a lot of the same components which weren't in use in the PS2 gen which made the PS3 and 360 more expensive. They're also much more adept at designing hardware now as evidenced by the PS3 slim and 360 slim which are much better designed than the jokes that were the launch PS3 and 360. Sony and MS have no reason to go for $100+ losses from launch like last gen as they'll be using mature technology this time around.

This post scares me. If sony and microsoft had such a hard time with HD on their first try, how will nintendo fair when they can't even get online right? I hope to god that they have engineers that once worked at sony or microsoft working on this thing. I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo took a wait and see approach to HD this gen (regardless of HD television penetration) because they predicted hardware issues and the like. Very interesting...

 

[Mr_Brit]

This post scares me. If sony and microsoft had such a hard time with HD on their first try, how will nintendo fair when they can't even get online right? I hope to god that they have engineers that once worked at sony or microsoft working on this thing. I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo took a wait and see approach to HD this gen (regardless of HD television penetration) because they predicted hardware issues and the like. Very interesting...

360 and PS3 had hardware issues due to bad engineering and horrible designs. I facepalmed and SMH both times I looked inside a launch 360 and PS3.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

This post scares me. If sony and microsoft had such a hard time with HD on their first try, how will nintendo fair when they can't even get online right? I hope to god that they have engineers that once worked at sony or microsoft working on this thing. I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo took a wait and see approach to HD this gen (regardless of HD television penetration) because they predicted hardware issues and the like. Very interesting...

Nintendo watched everyone else fuck up, so they'll at least know what to avoid and what to do right. They have an outside group working on their online and they'll make money on the console day one, so that's probably save part of their asses.

Whether they make Cafe work out in a satisfactory manner is what remains to be seen.

 

[Hiro]

I dunno what you're talking about. AceBandage clearly knows more about optimization than Epic. /snark

Wow, you're a fuckin liar. AceBandage has never written or coded an engine before. Ever. Epic Games has been writing and coding engines for two decades. So no, AceBandage doesn't know more about optimization than Epic. I don't know what rock you crawled out under from.

 

[Azure J]

You know, as much as I liked the Epic tech demo, Samaritan is quickly becoming both the Looksley's Line Up and Killzone 2 gifs of Cafe/future console threads... =/

EDIT: Epic missed sarcasm up there.

 

[D4Danger]

The Wii only has 88MB of RAM?

it only has to deal with sd content.

the orginal Xbox had 64mb and I think the PS2 had 32mb

 

[Lonely1]

Lol, you're comparing dedicated handheld games to mobile games? Most PSP games look a lot better than iphone games, does that mean the PSP is more powerful than the iphone?

Then, what are you basing your much "vastly inferior" assessment? RAM amounts and reported CPU speed? :/ Then, the 3DS has half of the amount of the iTouch4, but its of way higher quality and doesn't have more than half of it consumed by the OS, when not multitasking...

Also, several devs like Epic had access to the A5 months before the ipad shipped.

Several? Epic and who else? At least the Firemint guys said they didn't had access to the hardware until it shipped in May. And months in advance? How much time does devs need to release a good game on the system? At least a year? Note that the only game significantly enhanced for iPad 2 was (and in the announced future) Real Racing 2...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

If Nintendo screws up anything with Cafe, it will be giving it only 512 MB of RAM.

Wii and 3DS are both decent steps up from the RAM in PS2/GCN/Xbox. No reason to think their next machine will have only as much as X360/PS3.

Well the word is the Cafe is as large as the original 360

That's gonna be one hell of a pocket they'll have to sew into Iwata's jacket.

Nah, he'll ride out in it like Kuribo's shoe.

Nintendo made gobs of money with the Wii and DS.

I believe they even made money with the Gamecube.

They could eat big losses, the question is do they want to.

Right. Nintendo can eat big losses--but they got to that point by not making themselves eat big losses.

 

[DragonKnight]

Nintendo watched everyone else fuck up, so they'll at least know what to avoid and what to do right. They have an outside group working on their online and they'll make money on the console day one, so that's probably save part of their asses.

Whether they make Cafe work out in a satisfactory manner is what remains to be seen.

Source?

 

[Hiro]

You know, as much as I liked the Epic tech demo, Samaritan is quickly becoming both the Looksley's Line Up and Killzone 2 gifs of Cafe/future console threads... =/

There is no point in proceeding into the next-gen if your system can't run Samaritan. Epic has said, if next gen consoles from Sony, Nintendo and Microshit can't run Samaritan, they will turn to Apple. Sweeney has already pointed out how impressed he is with Apple's A5 chip and that what Apple comes up with next will exceed the next gen consoles coming from the three aforementioned folks (Nintendo, Sony, Micro-something).

 

[orioto]

You know, as much as I liked the Epic tech demo, Samaritan is quickly becoming both the Looksley's Line Up and Killzone 2 gifs of Cafe/future console threads... =/

And i wouldn't be so crazy about that demo. Bokeh dof and reflective rain won't be the key point to make awesome looking games... As usual, great artists, time and money wil...

 

[AceBandage]

Source?

In the field of networks in particular, however, I admit that we cannot do business in pace with the changes in the world and the requests from consumers only within our company and with development companies we have long been in touch with. I am not sure which term suits us as collaborations for this purpose, [mergers and acquisitions] or partnership.

There is no point in proceeding into the next-gen if your system can't run Samaritan. Epic has said, if next gen consoles from Sony, Nintendo and Microshit can't run Samaritan, they will turn to Apple. Sweeney has already pointed out how impressed he is with Apple's A5 chip and that what Apple comes up with next will exceed the next gen consoles coming from the three aforementioned folks (Nintendo, Sony, Micro-something).

Then next gen is going to be hilarious.
"SCREW YOU GUYS! WE'RE GONNA MAKE ANGRY GEARS OF BIRDS ON THE iPHONE!"

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Wow, you're a fuckin liar. AceBandage has never written or coded an engine before. Ever. Epic Games has been writing and coding engines for two decades. So no, AceBandage doesn't know more about optimization than Epic. I don't know what rock you crawled out under from.

 

[Absolute Bastard]

To be fair, Iwata did say that the Wii's graphics would wow us. And Sony promised us Toy Story graphics on the PS2. We've been lied to before.

Actually, few years ago I looked up the actual quote on that toy story stuff and it turned out to be from Microsofts Seamus Blackley, not Sony.

 

[Hiro]

And i wouldn't be so crazy about that demo. Bokeh dof and reflective rain won't be the key point to make awesome looking games... As usual, great artists, time and money wil...

And that's what the demo had....great artists. I'm sorry you're so blind you can't see that. You're hateing on Epic and the demo just for the sake of hateing on them.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Depending on what this controller screen thing is like, $299 doesn't seem far fetched, but I think it'll be $349. $400 would just be Nintendo being greedy.

 

[Hiro]

HERP DERP

Deadly serious.

Point was made, AceBandage doesn't code or create engines, Epic does. End of story.

 

[chaosblade]

Source?

Nintendo heavily hinted at this during their investor briefing. They basically said they can't do everything on their own and were looking to work with another company that is more experienced or specialized in that area.

Edit: Beaten.

 

[Instro]

There is no point in proceeding into the next-gen if your system can't run Samaritan. Epic has said, if next gen consoles from Sony, Nintendo and Microshit can't run Samaritan, they will turn to Apple. Sweeney has already pointed out how impressed he is with Apple's A5 chip and that what Apple comes up with next will exceed the next gen consoles coming from the three aforementioned folks (Nintendo, Sony, Micro-something).

Source? Would be the most lolworthy thing Ive ever heard if true.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Depending on what this controller screen thing is like, $299 doesn't seem far fetched, but I think it'll be $349. $400 would just be Nintendo being greedy.

Yeah, the complexity of the controller will determine if this is over $300 or not.

 

[Jocchan]

Wow, you're a fuckin liar. AceBandage has never written or coded an engine before. Ever. Epic Games has been writing and coding engines for two decades. So no, AceBandage doesn't know more about optimization than Epic. I don't know what rock you crawled out under from.

There is no point in proceeding into the next-gen if your system can't run Samaritan. Epic has said, if next gen consoles from Sony, Nintendo and Microshit can't run Samaritan, they will turn to Apple. Sweeney has already pointed out how impressed he is with Apple's A5 chip and that what Apple comes up with next will exceed the next gen consoles coming from the three aforementioned folks (Nintendo, Sony, Micro-something).

And that's what the demo had....great artists. I'm sorry you're so blind you can't see that. You're hateing on Epic and the demo just for the sake of hateing on them.

Hiro is probably my favorite junior member. He uses nanotechnologies and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Deadly serious.

Point was made, AceBandage doesn't code or create engines, Epic does. End of story.

Wow dude... my mouth is agape.

 

[AceBandage]

Wow dude... my mouth is agape.

It's Hiro. You'll come to love his psychosis.

 

[orioto]

And that's what the demo had....great artists. I'm sorry you're so blind you can't see that. You're hateing on Epic and the demo just for the sake of hateing on them.

Well that's great then, great artists doesn't need any Ghz to run!

 

[Instro]

Hiro is probably my favorite junior member. He uses nanotechnologies and doesn't afraid of anything.

How dare you, nanotechnology solves everything!