In defense of the "filmic" look.

M

msdstc

Incredibly Naive
I get that 60fps plays better, and overall I prefer that definitely. When it comes to movies though, doesn't 60FPS make it look strange? Change the way it feels? Why can't this be said the same for games?

Not only does the feel of the fps change things, but also the layers of detail and effects they can add to the game leading to a more cinematic package.

I know I'm gonna get dumped on here, but I'm trying more to play devils advocate and ask why if it can work in movies, it can't in games?

edit- I've had to repeat this a ton of times in the thread, so I'm gonna try to clarify this here.

My argument is not necassarily on how the input feels, or how the game works as a whole, I'm talking about the cinematic look achieved with a lower frame rate. I know there is more to this than just lowering the frame rate, however there is a reason 24p has stuck as the industry standard. My point here is that saying 30FPS can have a more cinematic feel is not as laughable as some treat it at least IMO. This is not at all to say that 30FPS games play as great as 60FPS, it's simply stating the fact that it looks more like a movie

edit edit-

Please disregard the first post here is a game running at 24FPS proper. http://a.pomf.se/vndaxe.webm

I have no idea what is wrong with the game in the first post, looks terrible though.

Again not arguing for 24FPS for input sake, just that it can create a certain look/feel.
 
Games != Movies.

Movies have no input from the person watching it. That is why the comparison in relation to framerates is pretty silly.
 
I agree. I'm a video guy by trade and I love the look of 24 fps and loathe the 60 fps look. I get the reasoning behind 60fps in fighting and racing games, but Cinematic games like Last of Us or Uncharted could stylistically benefit from 1080 24p.
 
I think you're going to get a lot of posters who feel that framrates should be higher in movies too, and that the "soap opera look" prejudice is dumb.

I know that the motion smoothing/frame interpolation/whatever it's called feature on tvs is ugly as sin but I don't think I've ever compared natively higher-framerate tv content so I can't really speak on my own behalf.
 
ANuclearError said:
Games != Movies.

Movies have no input from the person watching it. That is why the comparison in relation to framerates is pretty silly.
Click to expand...

I can't take this argument at face value. I've played plenty of games at 30 FPS they control fine, and they DEFINITELY have a different look. Would you prefer cut scenes at 60FPS or 24/30FPS?
 
I honestly never understood the claim that 60fps looks strange in cinema. I guess it does for some people, but it doesn't for me.
 
I can't honeslty be the only one who can't stand judder at the movies?

Peter Jackson ahs it right. 48+ FPS please.

As for games, there's more to film than just 24 FPS. So even if you're trying to capture that (which I doubt, this is almost certainly an issue with not being able to hit 60 FPS do to technical limitations) it's not sufficient to just hobble the framerate.
 
Because 60 fps is already a slideshow, 120 fps is where it at. If u wanna play a game at 30 fps, might as well go to a museum and look at paintings.
 
plagiarize said:
60 fps only looks strange in movies because it is uncommon. That's literally it.
Click to expand...
60FPS does look strange in movies. I've downloaded football clips on the internet running at 60FPS and they look bizarre. It looks nothing like what I've seen in real life or on TV (which I think runs at 50Hz).
 
plagiarize said:
60 fps only looks strange in movies because it is uncommon. That's literally it.
Click to expand...

I don't know that it's "literally" it, but I do know that 60FPS ends up looking cheap and tacky by comparison.

uncleslappy said:
I agree. I'm a video guy by trade and I love the look of 24 fps and loathe the 60 fps look. I get the reasoning behind 60fps in fighting and racing games, but Cinematic games like Last of Us or Uncharted could stylistically benefit from 1080 24p.
Click to expand...

I don't know about 24, but I do not it DOES make a difference. Like people have mentioned, the quick scenes of last of us at 60fps are a bit jarring. Not that I wouldn't want it for competitive, but at least for the cutscenes and cinematic moments I'd prefer a more movie like feel.

fredrancour said:
I think you're going to get a lot of posters who feel that framrates should be higher in movies too, and that the "soap opera look" prejudice is dumb.

I know that the motion smoothing/frame interpolation/whatever it's called feature on tvs is ugly as sin but I don't think I've ever compared natively higher-framerate tv content so I can't really speak on my own behalf.
Click to expand...

I've seen them side by side... when that Motionflow thing was trying to catch on any time I saw it it would stick out like a sore thumb.
 
msdstc said:
I can't take this argument at face value. I've played plenty of games at 30 FPS they control fine, and they DEFINITELY have a different look. Would you prefer cut scenes at 60FPS or 24/30FPS?
Click to expand...

If the game runs at 60FPS, so should the cut-scenes, the consistency is quite nice. Not the best comparison, but Deus Ex: HR's cutscenes were annoying because they were 720p when I was playing the game at 1080p.
 
All other visuals aside, if you had the choice between 30 and 60 FPS with no performance hits, would you honestly pick 30?

msdstc said:
I don't know that it's "literally" it, but I do know that 60FPS ends up looking cheap and tacky by comparison.
Click to expand...
It looks cheap and tacky because of the association with soap operas.
Likewise, 30 FPS is associated with "unperformant" in video games under this context.
 
The only reason 24 fps feels better for movies is because we're used to it.

That's why The Hobbit felt so weird, not because it is shitty tech but because we're so used to 24 fps.
 
Dennis said:
Here is a game running at 24 fps:

http://a.pomf.se/exqckv.webm
Click to expand...

tumblr_m6pequt15v1ry10fwo1_250.gif
 
Dawg said:
The only reason 24 fps feels better for movies is because we're used to it.

That's why The Hobbit felt so weird, not because it is shitty tech but because we're so used to 24 fps.
Click to expand...

I actually didn't notice The Hobbit was 60 FPS.
Because I slept through it.
 
velociraptor said:
60FPS does look strange in movies. I've downloaded football clips on the internet running at 60FPS and they look bizarre. It looks nothing like what I've seen in real life or on TV (which I think runs at 50Hz).
Click to expand...

Any idea where these clips would be? I'd be interested in seeing them.
 
I think FPS preferences are down to what we're used to. Movies have always been 24 FPS, so anything more and it's dsorienting. TV shows, IIRC, are at higher FPS (I think 30?) so when movies have a higher frame rate they tend to look "cheap" like TV shows. Games have been consistently higher frame rates. We're used to 30 - 60 FPS since forever, so if we go any lower it seems weird. Especially considering animation "flow" seems much more off at a lower framerate (like 24 FPS), where as movies our brains can stitch together the "missing" frames.

I don't think 60 FPS looks weird, but that's because I'm used to it. It just boils down to a preference and exposure of what it's supposed to "look" like. Anything over 30 FPS in games in generally fine with me. When it dips under that I tend to notice.
 
kinggroin said:
Real life doesn't move in fast forward like 60fps looks
Click to expand...

That has absolutely nothing to do with FPS. In fact you can achieve the methodical look of motion by the way you sample your frames. It's all about the parameters by which you define movement and the frame buffer.
 
30 Fps or lower is fine to LOOK at until you try playing it some extreme driving or shooting and then you will see why everyone with half-brain would play any game in at least 60 FPS scenario if they had the option. This is a back to the games are movies BS that really is taking away from the GAMEPLAY side of games and ruining them IMO. It doesn't matter your telling a story or not.... if your lowering the game side of the game to tell a better story your priorities in the wrong place unless its a VN.
 
plagiarize said:
60 fps only looks strange in movies because it is uncommon. That's literally it.
Click to expand...
It's not the only reason IMO. 60FPS looks unnatural because it's presented on a flat screen in front of you creating the level of smoothness in camera pans that you don't normally experience in real life when you move your head around, due to micromovements of our eyes that fixate to spots for splits of second as you move your point of view around. 60FPS also saturates your visual feed more while your actual head/body is not moving, causing more of a disconnect. I think this is the big part of thereason people gen easily nausious watching others play 60FPS first person games on big screen, where you move around quickly.
 
msdstc said:
I can't take this argument at face value. I've played plenty of games at 30 FPS they control fine, and they DEFINITELY have a different look. Would you prefer cut scenes at 60FPS or 24/30FPS?
Click to expand...

30fps is indeed playable, but I'll take 60+ fps for EVERYTHING, all the time.
 
I thought the Hobbit movies looked strange, not in a good way.
I didn't notice something similar with 60FPS games, tho.
But I don't think 60FPS is necessary. For most games I actually prefer better visuals over 60FPS.
 
Movies can have perfect motion blur. It means that not a single frame is a still frame. Every frame is a delta of many frames. So you could say (almost) that there are much more than 24 frames per second of information in there. A frame contains movement.
That's not possible in a realtime engine unless you render everything with a hefty (and horrible) delay.
That's why games NEED higher fps than movies. Case closed.
 
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