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[Omikaru]

This is so sad. Here's how I see it:

1) She's obviously ill, if not physically then emotionally/mentally.
2) Her IndieGoGo scam was wrong.
3) I think instead of hateful outrage, we should be understanding. That doesn't give her a pass on the scam, but the last thing this fragile individual needs right now is an outpouring of hate from internet warriors.

Considering these three things, it's hard for me to really have a reaction about this which isn't pity. What I am sure of is that I'm glad she's alive, and everyone else should be. And I'd like to think that we're all capable of showing someone who is emotionally distressed compassion, even when they do something wrong.

As for Allistair outing her, I don't know how to react to that. I can't condemn it or praise it. On the one hand, he is a journalist and if he's aware of a scam it's kind of his job to report it. On the other, outing transgendered people is super gross. The sad fact is given the circumstances we now know, you can't separate the two. The timing is suspect, however. But it's pretty much the definition of being caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Jenga]

Revealing the truth behind her being a scammer doesn't require her being outed and put on display as a ~deceptive transgender~

This whole situation is gross.

her status as a transexual isn't the issue, the deception itself is

it was her own fault for making the former involved with the latter

 

[Acquiescence]

The next time someone who genuinely needs money for a life-saving operation sets up a fundraiser, they're going to have a harder time convincing people to donate because of the shit that Sagal has pulled. I'm sorry that this person is in a difficult place right now, but a scam is a scam no matter which way you slice it, and lying to people in order to get their money is deplorable.

 

[lexi]

Oh, so she is trans. Well, my post is relevant again.

Given some of the reactions here, it also vindicates her reason for lying in the first place.

 

[baphomet]

Revealing the truth behind her being a scammer doesn't require her being outed and put on display as a ~deceptive transgender~

This whole situation is gross.


Outed as trans, not outed as a scammer. The latter was necessary.

It absolutely was necessary. That's what she trying to get money or wasn't it? That's part of the story. If it was so important for her to keep it hidden she shouldn't have been asking the public to fund the surgery.

 

[Risette]

Oh, so she is trans. Well, my post is relevant again.

Given some of the reactions here, it also vindicates her reason for lying in the first place.

No kidding.

It absolutely was necessary. That's what she trying to get money or wasn't it? That's part of the story. If it was so important for her to keep it hidden she shouldn't have been asking the public to fund the surgery.

why do you think she lied

 

[Jenga]

Oh, so she is trans. Well, my post is relevant again.

Given some of the reactions here, it also vindicates her reason for lying in the first place.

few lies have vindication, especially when charity and money is involved

 

[Paranerd]

Man, just when I thought this whole thing couldn't get any worse I read the Destructoid writer's Twitlonger summing up what Sagal did before her Twitch stream.


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp

 

[Diablo Rosso]

This is just one big mess. The fact that she tried to scam people with the whole story about the metal shrapnel is just deceiving and horrible. However, that doesn't give anyone the right to attack because she is transgender, if that is the case. She's clearly in a bad place.

 

[Corto]

Revealing the truth behind her being a scammer doesn't require her being outed and put on display as a ~deceptive transgender~

This whole situation is gross.


Outed as trans, not outed as a scammer. The latter was necessary.

It was known already. Can't remember where I read it, maybe the original thread of the Indiegogo campaign, but that was out already.

 

[Risette]

It was known already. Can't remember where I read it, maybe the original thread of the Indiegogo campaign, but that was out already.

It was speculation until the Destructoid guy confirmed it in detail.

 

[Schobeleth]

Apparently someone was using the hashtag #killallmen in the twitch feed, which definitely doesn't help the feminist's stance.

 

[baphomet]

No kidding.


why do you think she lied

Because she's a fucking crook.

 

[Campster]

"Hey, that person that tried to commit suicide last night? Let's out her as transgender, repeatedly call her IndieGoGo a scam, and then act like it was all in the name of truth and journalism," said someone that clearly doesn't understand what he's doing.

I mean, that TwitLonger post reads like "This situation almost gave me responsibilities as a human being to do something, so I backed away. So when she tried to kill herself I decided to just tell the world her most horrible secrets while she's lying in a hospital bed and unable to defend herself." Like, how does that not make you a reckless shitlord who has no real idea of the impact of what he's done?

 

[Risette]

Because she's a fucking crook.

And why does outing her as a crook require her to be outed as trans?

http://storify.com/pixiemania/this-...&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_source=t.co -- at least this bullshit isn't going unnoticed

 

[SneakyStephan]

Man, just when I thought this whole thing couldn't get any worse I read the Destructoid writer's Twitlonger summing up what Sagal did before her Twitch stream.


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp

Thanks this is a good summary.

OT: I don't understand why someone would want to attempt suicide on a livestream, I always thought it would be a very private thing for whoever does something like that.

 

[baphomet]

And why does outing her as a crook require her to be outed as trans?

http://storify.com/pixiemania/this-...&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_source=t.co -- at least this bullshit isn't going unnoticed

Because its an integral part of the story. Everyone gives games journalists shit for not reporting, and when they actually do you feel bad because they hurt the thiefs feelings. She put herself in this situation entirely. She has no one to blame but herself.

 

[Tomat]

Thanks this is a good summary.

OT: I don't understand why someone would want to attempt suicide on a livestream, I always thought it would be a very private thing for whoever does something like that.

It's a cry for help.

"Hey, that person that tried to commit suicide last night? Let's out her as transgender, repeatedly call her IndieGoGo a scam, and then act like it was all in the name of truth and journalism," said someone that clearly doesn't understand what he's doing.

I mean, that TwitLonger post reads like "This situation almost gave me responsibilities as a human being to do something, so I backed away. So when she tried to kill herself I decided to just tell the world her most horrible secrets while she's lying in a hospital bed and unable to defend herself." Like, how does that not make you a reckless shitlord who has no real idea of the impact of what he's done?

She lied to people about her campaign and got caught in the process. He was the right for wanting to inform people about what their money was really going towards. His delivery of this news is a little questionable though.

 

[Spongebob]

Oh, so she is trans. Well, my post is relevant again.

Given some of the reactions here, it also vindicates her reason for lying in the first place.

She attempted to deceive people out of thousands of dollars, there is no vindication here, don't be ridiculous.

 

[Higgins113]

So it's ok to scam people as long as you're transgender?

 

[phantomspiker]

Because its an integral part of the story. Everyone gives games journalists shit for not reporting, and when they actually do you feel bad because they hurt the thiefs feelings. She put herself in this situation entirely. She has no one to blame but herself.

Yeah, this is really unfortunate...

I hope she gets help.

 

[Sophia]

Because its an integral part of the story. Everyone gives games journalists shit for not reporting, and when they actually do you feel bad because they hurt the thiefs feelings. She put herself in this situation entirely. She has no one to blame but herself.

She attempted to deceive people out of thousands of dollars, there is no vindication here, don't be ridiculous.

Trans people already go through a considerable amount of discrimination, and the Destructoid author took the worst possible route of dealing with it.

It's situations like that, and posts from the likes of you two, that make people feel the need to lie about it in the first place.

I don't justify her actions, but I understand them, at least.

 

[lexi]

Because its an integral part of the story. Everyone gives games journalists shit for not reporting, and when they actually do you feel bad because they hurt the thiefs feelings. She put herself in this situation entirely. She has no one to blame but herself.

This isn't about games journalism, this is about making calculated twitter posts outing her as trans, calling her a scammer and misgendering her.

Wrapping himself in the flag of hard-hitting games journalism does not absolve him of some of the ethics real journalists possess.

 

[Mudbeed]

I have all the respect in the world for any LBGT person, I really do.

That being said the guy at DToid did the right thing. He really did try helping.

He never once attacked him/her as transgender or gay.

What she is though happens to be a scammer and for all we know scammed the suicide issue as well.

DToid did the right thing. Chloe outed herself when she scammed the entire community and claimed that she needed life saving surgery.

We can not for a second blame Alistair for doing the right thing and clearing up the air.

He did it with passion and care as well. It is not his fault for being honest. He obviously has nothing against transgenders. This was honesty.

Hopefully Chloe just goes away for awhile and avoids the internet and gets the help she needs (if she even desires it)

People defending her and feel that it was in bad taste for DToid to tell the truth need to figure out what Right vs Wrong means.

He would not have come clean had she not put him in this exact position to do so.

 

[Jenga]

Apparently someone was using the hashtag #killallmen in the twitch feed, which definitely doesn't help the feminist's stance.

they trolling right?

I think the proper course for anyone who actually feels anything for Ms. Sagal and her situation is to rebuke her for her lies, but offer to support and help her through her emotional instability. Now is the time to stand with her and to stand against falsehood, not to say "oh, well look how many people wouldn't have supported a sex change with money, she was right in a way!". Her mental state was fractured in a way to bring down people close to her by trying to killing herself in front of a streaming internet audience. This is not what a stable person does.

I also believe such an outpouring of good-will and understanding would furthermore go on to help others wanting to change their gender who're not receiving emotional support for it IRL.

Now is not the time to go around yelling "See?! She was right to lie! No one would support a transexual!". This helps no one. Or anything.

 

[baphomet]

This isn't about games journalism, this is about making calculated twitter posts outing her as trans, calling her a scammer and misgendering her.

Wrapping himself in the flag of hard-hitting games journalism does not absolve him of some of the ethics real journalists possess.

Real journalists would have outed her as soon as they found out her scam.

 

[Spongebob]

So it's ok to scam people as long as you're transgender?

Apparently yes.

 

[Jenga]

this is about making calculated twitter posts outing her as trans, calling her a scammer and misgendering her.

but she is a scammer. what she did was a scam by most definitions. there's not much justification for it.

what do you mean by "misgendering"?

 

[Ysiadmihi]

She attempted to deceive people out of thousands of dollars, there is no vindication here, don't be ridiculous.

I wish I could say I'm surprised that some people on GAF are defending her deception. It's very bothersome to see anyone defend this person in any way whatsoever.

She's clearly suffering from some severe mental anguish, but hundreds of millions of people do it without resorting to exploiting the kindness and charity of strangers.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

And why does outing her as a crook require her to be outed as trans?

http://storify.com/pixiemania/this-...&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_source=t.co -- at least this bullshit isn't going unnoticed

Uhhhh, because her scam was directly linked to her being trans?

 

[lexi]

He did it with passion and care as well. It is not his fault for being honest. He obviously has nothing against transgenders.

I would vigorously question that.

what do you mean by "misgendering"?

Mr. games journalist hero refers to her with male pronouns more than once.

 

[Alexios]

So, I'm confused, does this guy know her personally? At times he says nope, just looked into the situation and discovered the truth, then decided not to tell said truth until he discovered the suicide attempt failed and people felt bad (as if people shouldn't feel bad for a suicide attempt?), then he goes on to rant about how this person only wanted the surgery and none of the rest of the things that go with the, um, transformation, whatever those may be, as if he's lived with that person or as if it's such an easy situation to go through that you can judge someone for rejecting so called help or whatever he thinks was done wrong (on that aspect, obviously the scam was wrong but I at least offer sympathy to someone this disturbed, enough to attempt suicide, it's not like anyone was even scammed, the campaign failed and was cancelled, he's not saving anyone as he wants to claim).

Either way, I don't get why he's getting commendations for outing the truth or whatever some month or so late when it suited him best rather than when discovered which would have saved everyone the trouble.

 

[Tomat]

they trolling right?

It's Twitch chat. So yeah, probably

I think the proper course for anyone who actually feels anything for Ms. Sagal and her situation is to rebuke her for her lies, but offer to support and help her through her emotional instability. Now is the time to stand with her and to stand against falsehood, not to say "oh, well look how many people wouldn't have supported a sex change with money, she was right in a way!". Her mental state was fractured in a way to bring down people close to her by trying to killing herself in front of a streaming internet audience. This is not what a stable person does.

I also believe such an outpouring of good-will and understanding would furthermore go on to help others wanting to change their gender who're not receiving emotional support for it IRL.

Now is not the time to go around yelling "See?! She was right to lie! No one would support a transexual!". This helps no one. Or anything.

Pretty much. The campaign is over with, been that way for a while.

 

[Risette]

Because its an integral part of the story. Everyone gives games journalists shit for not reporting, and when they actually do you feel bad because they hurt the thiefs feelings. She put herself in this situation entirely. She has no one to blame but herself.

Why her status as trans integral to the story? I am pretty sure what's integral to this story is her status as a scammer. Why couldn't revealing her as a scammer simply be "she deliberately lied about what she was going to use the money for" ?

I have all the respect in the world for any LBGT person, I really do.

That being said the guy at DToid did the right thing. He really did try helping.

He never once attacked him/her as transgender or gay.

What she is though happens to be a scammer and for all we know scammed the suicide issue as well.

DToid did the right thing. Chloe outed herself when she scammed the entire community and claimed that she needed life saving surgery.

We can not for a second blame Alistair for doing the right thing and clearing up the air.

He did it with passion and care as well. It is not his fault for being honest. He obviously has nothing against transgenders. This was honesty.

Hopefully Chloe just goes away for awhile and avoids the internet and gets the help she needs (if she even desires it)

People defending her and feel that it was in bad taste for DToid to tell the truth need to figure out what Right vs Wrong means.

He would not have come clean had she not put him in this exact position to do so.

http://storify.com/pixiemania/this-...&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_source=t.co -- read this

 

[baphomet]

Why her status as trans integral to the story? I am pretty sure what's integral to this story is her status as a scammer. Why couldn't revealing her as a scammer simply be "she deliberately lied about what she was going to use the money for" ?

Because that's not reporting what actually happened. That's glossing over the actual facts because you feel sorry for her.

 

[Rubius]

"Hey, that person that tried to commit suicide last night? Let's out her as transgender, repeatedly call her IndieGoGo a scam, and then act like it was all in the name of truth and journalism," said someone that clearly doesn't understand what he's doing.

I mean, that TwitLonger post reads like "This situation almost gave me responsibilities as a human being to do something, so I backed away. So when she tried to kill herself I decided to just tell the world her most horrible secrets while she's lying in a hospital bed and unable to defend herself." Like, how does that not make you a reckless shitlord who has no real idea of the impact of what he's done?

He said that she's a transexual, and its a good thing to say. Because if Chloe is not her legal name, then she may use her male name to scam other people. You need to give her real name. Also, how is saying that she's a transexual bad? She's a transexual. You can see it in public record as she is obligated to make a newspaper announcement that X person is now known as Y person. Its public. She was born male and went female. What is wrong with that, and why should people not know that?

 

[Jenga]

Why her status as trans integral to the story? I am pretty sure what's integral to this story is her status as a scammer. Why couldn't revealing her as a scammer simply be "she deliberately lied about what she was going to use the money for" ?

because that's exactly what the scam was

do you think he could just report the scam without people asking what the hell it was?

 

[Cartman86]

Because its an integral part of the story. Everyone gives games journalists shit for not reporting, and when they actually do you feel bad because they hurt the thiefs feelings. She put herself in this situation entirely. She has no one to blame but herself.

You could just say non-life threatening surgery. I'm not versed in this subject, but i'm sure there are plenty of other ways.

 

[GoddyofAus]

I thought she sort of looked like a dude watching that 18 minute video.

 

[Jackl]

The next time someone who genuinely needs money for a life-saving operation sets up a fundraiser, they're going to have a harder time convincing people to donate because of the shit that Sagal has pulled. I'm sorry that this person is in a difficult place right now, but a scam is a scam no matter which way you slice it, and lying to people in order to get their money is deplorable.

What he said. Fraudulent behavior is still fraudulent behavior.

Irregardless I hope she can recover from this episode in her life to a positive conclusion.

 

[Risette]

Because that's not reporting what actually happened. That's glossing over the actual facts because you feel sorry for her.

No, it's withholding information that has no business being made public.

 

[Tomat]

Why her status as trans integral to the story? I am pretty sure what's integral to this story is her status as a scammer. Why couldn't revealing her as a scammer simply be "she deliberately lied about what she was going to use the money for" ?

Because people are going to ask for actual proof that she lied. Saying "She deliberately lied about what she was going to use the money for" is not proof.

 

[Jenga]

Mr. games journalist hero refers to her with male pronouns more than once.

he knew her personally, did he know her before she made the change?

 

[baphomet]

You could just say non-life threatening surgery.

Or you could, you know, actually report the facts of the story.

No, it's withholding information that has no business being made public.

She made it public when she decided to scam people to pay for her surgery.

 

[Schobeleth]

they trolling right?

I also believe such an outpouring of good-will and understanding would furthermore go on to help others wanting to change their gender who're not receiving emotional support for it IRL.

Now is not the time to go around yelling "See?! She was right to lie! No one would support a transexual!". This helps no one. Or anything.

It's Twitch chat. So yeah, probably


Pretty much. The campaign is over with, been that way for a while.

I just think funding sites like this should completely not allow personal/charity cases. I know KS generally doesn't, but I'm not sure about Indiegogo's TOS. Still, I just think this whole thing is ridiculous, especially the supposed feminists saying kill all men.

 

[Mudbeed]

Why her status as trans integral to the story? I am pretty sure what's integral to this story is her status as a scammer. Why couldn't revealing her as a scammer simply be "she deliberately lied about what she was going to use the money for" ?


http://storify.com/pixiemania/this-...&utm_content=storify-pingback&utm_source=t.co -- read this

It has obviously got to the point to come clean. This was not a life saving surgery.

Once the truth about the scam was coming out there was no clear choice than the whole truth.

Alistair tried to save her life on multiple occasions. He cared and dealt with her drama on more than one occasion.

There is no need to bash him when he tried so damn hard to keep it a secret. She put the nail in her own coffin and there is zero hatred behind anyone's motivations beside her own.

She needs psychiatric help. that or she is a lying sociopath.

She is trying to blame her own death on other peoples careers and lives. The truth was the only way at this point.

 

[Tomat]

I just think funding sites like this should completely not allow personal/charity cases. I know KS generally doesn't, but I'm not sure about Indiegogo's TOS. Still, I just think this whole thing is ridiculous, especially the supposed feminists saying kill all men.

You would be better off not paying any mind to the Twitch chat at all, especially considering her Twitch Channel got linked on 4chan multiple times. There's no weight there.

 

[Rubius]

So it's ok to scam people as long as you're transgender?

I think its more "Its okay to scam if you have mental problems and say you will kill yourself and then post an announcement, wait a while and then take pills in front of a live stream to be sure that people know you are attempting a suicide for the obvious reason to be saved"
Somebody who really want to die do not warn other people. They just do it. If they want to be saved, they talk to people.

 

[rocketknight]

Oh, so she is trans. Well, my post is relevant again.

Given some of the reactions here, it also vindicates her reason for lying in the first place.

Thank you for that.

Also, for what it's worth, this is a pretty good example of why the APA and AMA agree that treatment and surgery for trans people is medically necessary and in many cases lifesaving.

 

[Campster]

She attempted to deceive people out of thousands of dollars, there is no vindication here, don't be ridiculous.

People poured in money in an effort to help her out of empathy. They saw a person suffering and they donated because they wanted to see that suffering end happily. And it turns out that she was suffering, but in a different way. But when people found that out it became a digital harassment and lynch mob, interested only in vengeance and a twisted sense of internet justice. I'm concerned that people who were so eager to donate out of one sort of empathy, when asked to reframe that empathy as something else, immediately get defensive and angry instead of seeking to understand why she did what she did.

At no point was the goal of this IndieGoGo to take people's money and buy a bunch of videogames or a house in Bermuda or a new car. And her reason for attempting to deceive people is pretty straightforward - a lot of the responses around the internet today are a good indication of why she was so hesitant to ask for that money in an honest way.

Let's be clear: She lied to people, and that's shitty. It complicates matters, and people understandably feel hurt that she felt she needed to hide her true intentions. But the response to this sort of lie shouldn't be a pitchforks-and-torches affair. There are straightforward, clear reasons for it. Everyone got their money back, so at the end of the day there isn't even any successful quote-unquote "scam" here. And especially because most of the people condemning her in this thread didn't donate to begin with, I struggle to understand the outrage.

This goes doubly so because she's clearly in a bad way. This is why Allistair Pinsof's twitter comments are so troubling - he has decided to make this intensely personal and private issue a matter of public record for reasons that remain ambiguous. The goal is certainly not to actually help Chloe - outing an already fragile person as trans and having the whole of the internet decrying her as a "scam artist" less than twenty four hours after a suicide attempt sure as shit isn't what I'd call "helping."

The internet is having a hissy fit about being lied to and acting like it's the victim when Chloe is (as far as we know) lying in a hospital bed. But yeah, let's keep insisting there's no vindication for her, let's keep judging the person who isn't here to defend herself, let's keep throwing around her birth gender like she doesn't deserve a say in what people know about her past.

Shit's fucked up, yo.