Mr. Enigma
Member
The comment came from 4chan. That should be the end of your bewilderment.
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Indie game developer Chloe Sagal attempted suicide on TwitchTV, not dead
- Thread starter Wario64
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The comment came from 4chan. That should be the end of your bewilderment.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Glad to hear she's alive and hospitalized. I hope her recovery is quick.
Anyone been seeing the shit Allistair Pinsof from Destructoid has been getting over this? He was a friend of Chloe's and confirmed today that the campaign was a scam, but he wasn't saying anything because she threatened suicide if it got out. She attempted it anyway, so he confirmed it.
Maybe a little insensitive to do so soon, but he was being blackmailed and has been lying to people for over a month now. Plus, he referred to her by a male pronoun in a tweet... but, apparently she does present as male in real life and he knows her as a male. Still insensitive, but understandable and out of genuine ignorance.
Needless to say though, it's blown up. People on twitter are at a point where they're literally blaming him for her suicide attempt, "outing" her as trans (though it seems to have been common knowledge?) and of course calling him all sorts of nasty names over a pronoun misuse.
I do think he could have handled this much better, but holy shit... there are some extremely vindictive people out there.
This is my first post in this thread, so just to be clear obviously what happened with Chloe is way worse than some writer getting told to fuck himself, but I hadn't heard about the story until I saw his tweets and I didn't see anything about this specific development in this thread.
Maybe a little insensitive to do so soon, but he was being blackmailed and has been lying to people for over a month now. Plus, he referred to her by a male pronoun in a tweet... but, apparently she does present as male in real life and he knows her as a male. Still insensitive, but understandable and out of genuine ignorance.
Needless to say though, it's blown up. People on twitter are at a point where they're literally blaming him for her suicide attempt, "outing" her as trans (though it seems to have been common knowledge?) and of course calling him all sorts of nasty names over a pronoun misuse.
I do think he could have handled this much better, but holy shit... there are some extremely vindictive people out there.
This is my first post in this thread, so just to be clear obviously what happened with Chloe is way worse than some writer getting told to fuck himself, but I hadn't heard about the story until I saw his tweets and I didn't see anything about this specific development in this thread.
PedroPanache
Member
This is all conjecture, of course, but reading through this thread and putting together the pieces and the subtext in a number of her posts, it would seem that the operation she needed was, in fact, transgender related. I suppose to call it a scam seems a little harsh, sure it was a deception, but more borne out of fear than a malicious attempt to trick people out of their money. Perhaps fear played a part, fear that she'd be mocked and rejected if she were to reveal what the operation was really for; so, unfortunately, she masked her true intentions behind a rather fantastical and unbelievable story that the internet, in its often cruel way, pulled apart completely.
I don't know what it would feel like to know that you're the wrong gender, it must be pretty frightening and upsetting. I don't think she set out to scam anyone, I just think she was desperate and wanted help to finally feel normal, but emotionally she was unprepared to show her true self to the internet; hence the fantastical story.
I don't know what it would feel like to know that you're the wrong gender, it must be pretty frightening and upsetting. I don't think she set out to scam anyone, I just think she was desperate and wanted help to finally feel normal, but emotionally she was unprepared to show her true self to the internet; hence the fantastical story.
Welp.
Indiegogo redeemed.
She should've really just said what she needed the money for.
Her claim: "Give me money otherwise I'll die due to metal poisoning"
The truth: "Give me money otherwise I'll die by killing myself"
This person does not have my sympathy. She is mentally unstable and needs proper emotional care, but I'm not going to donate to her anytime soon.
I agree it's not okay, but when the person is not only pre-op, but still currently presenting as male to most people... I can at least understand the statement. Though the fact that she still presents as male outside of the internet probably wasn't even something that's worth pointing out, really.
And this is why healthcare in America suck. Life threatening injury and no way to pay? Well we cant do anything for you. You want to kill yourself to save yourself the pain? NOPE CANT DO THAT. Its sad that she's not Canadian really. All of this would have been taken care of. Not a perfect system, but if you a piece of metal inside of you we will take it out before it kill you.
Cant wait for Canada to allow suicide by doctors for people in life ending diseases or conditions.
Cant wait for Canada to allow suicide by doctors for people in life ending diseases or conditions.
She/He (not sure which way it is) doesn't have a life threatening injury, she/he lied.
Ohmwrecker
Neo Member
Allistair and I were the two people directly involved in a very similar situation a little over a month ago, but in that case the threats were being made privately over Skype. A Polygon editor was also involved, but to a lesser extent. I think one thing should be cleared up though, prior to the Indiegogo campaign neither Allistair nor I knew Chloe on a personal level at all. We both got to know Chloe when we were attempting to fact check essentially before driving our audience to help her campaign. I say this because this is the second time I've seen either he or I be referred to in a way that implies that we have a close relationship to Chloe. We were both extremely close to the situation, but I do not think either of us hit a point where we could have been called close friends of Chloe's.
I personally have struggled with the knowledge that I gained last month, as has Allistair. The cat is out of the bag now though, as he confirmed on Twitter. The Indiegogo campaign was not entirely genuine, it was actually quite deceptive. There was no metal poisoning, Chloe wanted a different kind of surgery that would help Chloe become the gender that she identified most with. We both figured this out, Destructoid was actually just about to publish a story on it. This is when Chloe went into a panic the first time.
Last time around it took many hours to finally determine who Chloe actually is, as it turned out Chloe Sagal is an alias. I live very close to Chloe, and her school, and it wasn't until the police were able to get in touch with a trusted professor that Chloe's real identity was located by police in Illinois. The resolution of the situation last time with authorities was that they would be doing a wellness check, but I got the impression that she told police that there was no threat, and they lacked the evidence to actually force her into a temporary involuntary psych eval.
Following all of this the small number of us that were involved discussed the situation further. Allistair had good intentions with his story, in that those that were donating didn't actually know the truth about what they were donating to and needed to know, but he chose to cancel it given the circumstances - specifically that Indiegogo gave refunds to everyone already, and that a life was potentially on the line. I still had concerns about the ethics of doing so, especially because there were indie developers who promised days of sales for Chloe's operation to address "metal poisoning", which left me to believe that there was still damage done. Despite any concerns, I agreed to keep the situation private, including the truth about the campaign, and the fact that Chloe Sagal is an alias.
This is what I was referring to on Reddit (if you saw my post) when I stated that Chloe was given a free pass. How many journalists would give someone that ran a bogus fundraiser an out like that, especially when consumers (and indie devs) were being deceived? Very few, and in this case, Chloe truly lucked out. Despite that, Chloe chose to not only make threats of suicide again, but this time try to actually do it via a Youtube video, and a Twitch.tv stream.
Given that very few people knew that Chloe Sagal was an alias, very few people that wanted to help last night were actually able to. When I personally spoke with the local police last night (again, I'm very local to her, and already had contacts that were aware of the situation last month) they seemed entirely unaware of the events unfolding on Twitch, Youtube, and elsewhere. Police were finally en-route to try to help the person behind the Chloe Sagal alias, but the concern was that it was too late. This is where I immediately regretted keeping the fact that Chloe Sagal is an alias secret, as there were people genuinely trying to help from around the world for at least 2 hours prior to my involvement.
At this point I do understand that Chloe is safe, but the truth needs to be out there. As Allistair finally admitted on Twitter Chloe Sagal's Indiegogo campaign was completely deceptive. Chloe Sagal is not even a real name, it is the name that Chloe identifies with. Beyond that I don't want to get into gender debates or anything like that, nor do I think it's appropriate to attack anyone for referring to Chloe as a she.
If she told the backers that her life was in danger due to metal poisoning and she actually wanted to use the funds on a non-lifesaving sexual reassignment surgery, then yes it's absolutely a scam.
That isn't to say that she isn't in pain, or that this operation isn't important, or that this situation isn't tragic.
What, really? She obviously didnt want to die because of the whole "I'm killing myself, come watch me!" which is a obvious cry for help. But still trying to scam people is kind of shitty.
So, in America if you have a life threatening condition, they are obligated to help you?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Wow, blackmailing other people with your suicide over a scam. There goes any sympathy whatsoever. Not even clinical depression is reason enough for twattery like that.
Well, I'd imagine most transgendered people don't go by their given name. Still, thanks for clearing some of this up. It sounds like it hasn't been a pleasant experience for anyone involved.
PedroPanache
Member
It's easy to say she acted in a deplorable way, but she's clearly unwell and clearly she's not had the good fortune to find herself surrounded with people who will accept for her for who she is. From her comments about her mother seemingly rejecting her, I can understand the paralysing fear that if her family would reject her, then, if her secret got out onto the internet, she'd find more rejection there.
Scam or no scam, Chloe clearly needs some kind of help. The best we can hope for is that Chloe gets better physically and mentally and takes the knowledge gained from this experience and puts it to good use.
There are very few people that mislead, scam and commit crimes and don't have some sort of mental or emotional problem. I know it's more complicated than that and she deserves sympathy in the end, but I still don't think what she did can be excused.
Truth has come, and falsehood has departed. Indeed is falsehood, by its nature, ever bound to depart.
You're stating inconvenient truth, and people do appreciate such inconvenience for fear of being labelled "judgemental"
You're stating inconvenient truth, and people do appreciate such inconvenience for fear of being labelled "judgemental"
It doesn't need to be excused, but understood.
I was a security guard in a hospital and even though I have some sympathy for mental patients, I do not really care about it. I dealt with so many mental patients, drug using mental patients of all kinds that I do not view them as giant victims. When you have to deal with the same guy coming to the hospital every night to waste the time of doctors and who do not take his medication and take speed and extacy and LSD and everything he can grab, its hard to pity them anymore.
I do hope she gain help dealing with her sexuality and gender change. But a liar will always try to scam people.
Charoncaori
Member
I'm not speaking from experience, but I think that if you have an immediately life-threatening condition that doesn't require an organ transplant or something, the emergency room would have to fix it if possible. Then the debt collectors come calling afterwards.
If she got hit by an insured car, the car insurance would cover it.
There's also medicaid (I think) that she could apply for, depending on how time-sensitive the situation is.
I'm sure someone could slip through the cracks, but if she had a piece of metal in her, I think the philosophy is surgery now,life-ruining debt payment later.
Yeah I dont like the whole "Okay now you are alive, but have to pay 200 000$ with an interest rate of 6.5%"
Also, if the scam was for a sex change, she could have gotten it pretty cheap in Canada. Of course if she was Canadian, it would be free since its considered a "gender identity disorder" in Canada Seem its also covered by american assurances providers.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Exactly and life-threatening also includes threatening your own life. You're placed what's called a Legal 2000 and sent right to the suicide watch of the hospital.
Charoncaori
Member
Thanks for the perspective.
I don't like it either, and that crop needs to change here, but it's still better than letting someone die on the table.
As for reassignment surgery/hormones, I think you need to see a psychiatrist before you're allowed to have surgery, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that this person wasn't being seen by anyone. Hope she has insurance, and I hope this gets her some help. Her problems don't excuse her behavior but it sucks seeing other people in pain.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Pretty crazy that it came out true after all. Hope it somehow works out for this person.
Don't get people saying no sympathy. Not donating is one thing (I didn't before finding this out, you can't trust anything) not feeling for someone so deeply disturbed as if the goal was to harm someone is another.
That guy sounds like an ass. Just contact the authorities rather than play the victim card weeks later, it's not like the only other alternative was to run the story and do nothing else therefor risk having a suicide on them.
Contact the authorities, then run the story, if you can actually write something decent, meaningful about the involved issues and with tact rather than just crucify such a person. He doesn't have excuses, unlike this one.
Don't get people saying no sympathy. Not donating is one thing (I didn't before finding this out, you can't trust anything) not feeling for someone so deeply disturbed as if the goal was to harm someone is another.
That guy sounds like an ass. Just contact the authorities rather than play the victim card weeks later, it's not like the only other alternative was to run the story and do nothing else therefor risk having a suicide on them.
Contact the authorities, then run the story, if you can actually write something decent, meaningful about the involved issues and with tact rather than just crucify such a person. He doesn't have excuses, unlike this one.
anexanhume
Member
Yeah. Just call the person what he or she wants to be referred to as. Gender and sex are distinct terms for a reason.
When you start scamming people for money to perpetuate your ends you give up the right to not be mocked. People are mocking because this is mock worthy. This is a social vampire preying on the goodwill of others through deceit, lying, and trickery. It deserves to be mocked, as it is mock worthy behavior. Obviously the person is mentally ill and has serious depression, but that does not justify this sort of crime against a society. All this does is further taint the whole crowdsourcing scene and perpetuate a belief its a scam, harming all those truly in need. The person hit rock bottom because they are a scam artist and it caught up to them. Now in addition to being rejected by their family they were going to lose their anonymity and dignity.
There is nothing wrong with mocking people for crimes they have committed against others.
Well I think he wanted to put out there that its a transsexual and not a natural born girl. To some point the info is good to have for the sake of discussion and can raise awareness on the condition of transexual in america right now.
Empathy and sympathy are different. I have only one of them for this situation.
It's covered by some. A lot don't, or make you go through gatekeeping hell to get it covered.
You can be denied surgery for cancer due to lack of funds, apparently.
Edit:
Nevermind, my post is irrelevant.
::Kicks feet up on the table::
Well shit.
I actually participated on that Indie-Gogo. I gave money with the idea that sometimes, people just need some help when times get hard. We all go a little crazy sometimes and it's hard when we don't have anyone in our corner.
But guess I really need to stop feeling that way.
I don't know man. I'm really sick and tired of people-
Naw, forget it. This sucks, and I am disappointed. That's it.
Well shit.
I actually participated on that Indie-Gogo. I gave money with the idea that sometimes, people just need some help when times get hard. We all go a little crazy sometimes and it's hard when we don't have anyone in our corner.
But guess I really need to stop feeling that way.
I don't know man. I'm really sick and tired of people-
Naw, forget it. This sucks, and I am disappointed. That's it.
He doesn't live in America.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Any idea what happened here?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Schuldiner#Death
Is it that immediate is open to debate?
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
This is disgusting, asking for money saying that you need for a life saving surgery but in reality you need for other things.
Imagine now if someone else REALLY NEEDS money to save his life or someone else's life (a good public health system will be the best solution, but some countries don't have it) but he fails because people are suspicious.
If you have problems, the worst thing you can do it's to create problems to others.
Imagine now if someone else REALLY NEEDS money to save his life or someone else's life (a good public health system will be the best solution, but some countries don't have it) but he fails because people are suspicious.
If you have problems, the worst thing you can do it's to create problems to others.
Ohmwrecker
Neo Member
I've said about all I have to say on page 10, but here's some more on the situation from Allistair from Destructoid. As mentioned in my previous post, we had to deal with a very similar situation last month -
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp
OverBlood 3
Banned
I held my tongue earlier I didn't want to comment until more information was out there and things were clearer but honestly it's a despicable way for this person to act, I don't want to say anymore but really they do need some help.
truth will out
So I read his twitlonger, apparently neogaf threw a fit too. C'mon gaf. I know we have the instinct and culture here to support any 'feminist' without much second thought, but perhaps we should try reading both sides of the story before raising the pitchforks?
Attempting suicide on Twitch.tv, that's new though.
Attempting suicide on Twitch.tv, that's new though.
baphomet
Member
Good for him. Journalists shouldn't give someone who is actively scamming their community a free pass
Revealing the truth behind her being a scammer doesn't require her being outed and put on display as a ~deceptive transgender~
This whole situation is gross.
Outed as trans, not outed as a scammer. The latter was necessary.
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