IndieStatik Founder apologizes for "inappropriate" comments to female game dev

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Harlequin said:
I just don't think that the comments being sexual is a bad thing. I'm not that sensitive when it comes to sex. So yes, personally, I think they were rather harmless. However, if she did feel uncomfortable she should've been able to say so instead of feeling the need to be ambiguous about it. (And now please don't say she couldn't for career reasons because I've already adressed that and said that I find this kind of environment to be a huge problem in a previous post.) I'm not saying it's her fault. I'm saying it's a misunderstanding. Could the guy have been a little brighter and caught onto the fact that his advances were unwanted? Definitely. But she could've also been a little more firm and definite in her rejection.
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OK as I posted on another page, it might not have been career reasons. She might just be the kind of person who want's to let an awkward or uncomfortable situation blow over without trying to start anything or provoke the harasser to anger. That person can still be just as uncomfortable or distressed as the person who's ready to say "F OFF!"
 
porkcchop said:
Oh man. When did the games industry get so filled with social justice assholes?

What Mattingly did was wrong, but the woman should have just told him to stop. Jaffe's twitter is getting spammed by people who think he is a disgusting pig for just trying bring up a point.
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Lack of reciprocation and trying to change the subject is easily interpreted by anyone with basic social skills.
 
NullPointer said:
No its really not. "You just should have known" is better in theory than in practice. If she wanted to be crystal clear she could tell him to fuck off. Or stop the conversation entirely right there.

Engaging and joking, especially in a text conversation is the opposite of a shutdown.

That doesn't excuse his behavior one bit, nor does it in any way meant she was asking for it, but when somebody is confronted with a problem that they have control over they should exert some control over it. Fuck being passive. Thats all.
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it's easy to say 'fuck being passive' when you're a male in a male-dominated field. please read my earlier post about my wife in the air force, and then read about sexual harassment in the air force on the internet, and think about why it exists in such numbers.
 
porkcchop said:
Oh man. When did the games industry get so filled with social justice assholes?

What Mattingly did was wrong, but the woman should have just told him to stop. Jaffe's twitter is getting spammed by people who think he is a disgusting pig for just trying bring up a point.
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She was just trying to be professional than berate him over (what looks like) Facebook messenger. She at least asked if his unusual behaviour was because he was drunk.

He should have known better, as the founder of a professional[?] website to show some decorum....over social media too, for christ's sake. :S

Sometimes what isn't said matters too.
 
NullPointer said:
Seriously. And now he's going to get a snowball of shit as people assume the very worst possible motivation behind that tweet.

It doesn't get the guy off the hook for people to have wanted her to shut him down rather than ignoring or joking about it. If a friend came to you asking about getting these kinds of messages would you advise them to ignore them or make light of them through jokes? I wouldn't.
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Well the phrasing implies that it's her fault for not keeping it professional. While I do think a simple "uh..." or just "..." would have certainly shut me down, the urge to keep bridges from burning probably won out.
 
Harlequin said:
You apparently missed the line where I specifically said it wasn't her fault (not sure if it's in the post you quoted or in another on in this thread). I also love how you continue to ignore what I actually say and keep insisting I'm not applying any standard to him or his behaviour.
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You're being disingenuous: You place blame on her for not acting the way you feel a victim should, and (as I said in the part you quoted), you apply no "standard" to things he actually did. In fact, you explicitly argue there should be no standard of behavior applied to what he actually did because people are just too sensitive nowadays. These are your arguments. Mercifully, society is adjusting so people who think like you are slowly becoming anachronisms.
 
Aquamarine said:
Actually, I don't. What exactly are you saying?
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I'm saying that it's stupid to assume something is right or the pinnacle of morality just because it's what's currently socially accepted. People should come to their own conclusions based on logical and rational thought rather than mindlessly follow what everyone else tells them is right. All the people who do that kind of thing today (please note that I'm not saying that that's everyone in this thread disagreeing with me - I have no way of knowing that) would've also burned witches in the Middle Ages or held black people as slaves back in the 18th century.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Are you implying that one can be an asshole about trying to stop injustice?
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Yes, actually (not trying to defend porkcchop, like at all, just saying that yes... you can pursue 'justice' and being an asshole... read about the Spanish Conquest of the Americas and their justifications)
 
NullPointer said:
No its really not. "You just should have known" is better in theory than in practice. If she wanted to be crystal clear she could tell him to fuck off. Or stop the conversation entirely right there.

Engaging and joking, especially in a text conversation isn't a shutdown.

That doesn't excuse his behavior one bit, nor does it in any way meant she was asking for it, but when somebody is confronted with a problem that they have control over they should exert some control over it. Fuck being passive, over text of all things. Thats all. Its a simple point that becomes a huge deal when people presume the worst.
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Perhaps I have some sort of spider-sense or something because her responses (or lack of) in the conversation seem more damning to me than 'fuck off' would have been. It's blatantly obvious that she is not picking up what he's putting down.

I can't look down on her for an unwillingness to be confrontational. In my experience that's a pretty normal reaction for people being harassed in the moment.
 
freenudemacusers said:
it's easy to say 'fuck being passive' when you're a male in a male-dominated field. please read my earlier post about my wife in the air force, and then read about sexual harassment in the air force on the internet, and think about why it exists in such numbers.
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People love to tell us to speak up, then when we do, tell us to shut up, or harass us, or draw lewd comics, or stalk us.

So whatever. The fucking irony. Speak up when I want you to, let me ignore the ramifications you'll suffer for it.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
WvBHiRG.png


oh
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bazqF.gif


rain elbows said:
This is the same guy - right? This guy is a world class fucking creeper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vvcQs2wsn4
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Oh jesus. JESUS. I just... wow. It explains so much!

"I know what my boundaries are."

FUUUUUUUCK!
 
NullPointer said:
Seriously. And now he's going to get a snowball of shit as people assume the very worst possible motivation behind that tweet.

It doesn't get the guy off the hook for people to have wanted her to shut him down rather than ignoring or joking about it. If a friend came to you asking about getting these kinds of messages would you advise them to ignore them or make light of them through jokes? I wouldn't.
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I'm not like gonna set my copies of God of War on fire or anything but insinuating that she wasn't being professional when the other person is repeatedly talking about his penis and kissing her vagina is one of the most willful exercises in missing the point that I've ever seen.
 
Harlequin said:
I'm saying that it's stupid to assume something is right or the pinnacle of morality just because it's what's currently socially accepted. People should come to their own conclusions based on logical and rational thought rather than mindlessly follow what everyone else tells them is right. All the people who do that kind of thing today (please note that I'm not saying that that's everyone in this thread disagreeing with me - I have no way of knowing that) would've also burned witches in the Middle Ages or held black people as slaves back in the 18th century.
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So what does this have to do with the Gamecube vs PS2?
 
Angelus Errare said:
They relate to him and his inability to talk to women. Thus it's clearly the girl's fault not the guy's.
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But why, just why. I don't get it. Is it so hard to understand some people deal with harassment by ignoring it rather than verbal aggression.

Is this a new scientific discovery or something.
 
Sorry if I gave off the aura that I am anti women's rights, but I was sexually harassed at my first job in highschool by some female coworkers my own age. I thought if i ignored it they would get bored, but their comments kept escalating. After a couple weeks of ignoring I took the initiative an confronted the one who started it all and magically it all stopped right after that.

If she confronted him and he continued, then she could report him to HR/management/whatever, but not setting firm boundaries is bad professionally... even for other kinds of relationships than sexual.

This i sjust my uninformed view, and take it however misguided it may be. Although, I harbor no ill will toward the victim in this instance... just think the thread is a bit of an overreaction is all. I will cease to continue posting on this subject to prevent further misunderstandings.

Hope ya'll had a great MLK jr. day!
 
Harlequin said:
I'm saying that it's stupid to assume something is right or the pinnacle of morality just because it's what's currently socially accepted. People should come to their own conclusions based on logical and rational thought rather than mindlessly follow what everyone else tells them is right. All the people who do that kind of thing today (please note that I'm not saying that that's everyone in this thread disagreeing with me - I have no way of knowing that) would've also burned witches in the Middle Ages or held black people as slaves back in the 18th century.
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Well, I'm about to blow your mind, but maybe people uncomfortable about this are actually thinking with their own brains and not being brainless sheep who may or may not would have burned witches or have slaves in the past
 
Principate said:
But why, just why. I don't get it. Is it so hard to understand some people deal with harassment by ignoring it rather than verbal aggression.

Is this a new scientific discovery or something.
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In their mind if she doesn't make it verbally clear, then it's obvious that she likes it and wants it and they're going to “score”.
 
NullPointer said:
Fuck being passive, over text of all things.
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If only life were so simple! Being aggressive means damaging the working relationship, not a thing a developer wants to do with a journalist. And really, when a woman asks "are you drunk" while you try to flirt with her, that means it's way past time to stop.
 
I think in this whole saga Jaffe is coming out of it worse than the guy this thread is about. The guy acted stupid, and his personal issues may have some bearing on what happened(but that doesn't excuse what he did). But Jaffe just going on-and-on is with plainly outdated and outright farcical viewpoints is revealing to me. Kind of explains the objectification of women in God of War 1 a little bit to me.
"If no-one's said outright to my face it's degrading and immature, it's fine!"
 
Intheflorsh said:
If only life were so simple! Being aggressive means damaging the working relationship, not a thing a developer wants to do with a journalist. And really, when a woman asks "are you drunk" while you try to flirt with her, that means it's way past time to stop.
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Okay, here's what I don't get: how is taking this public better than first telling him to stop, then if any inappropriate behavior continues taking it public? How is jumping straight to taking it public less damaging to the working relationship?

I don't think what she did was wrong, I don't think his behavior was appropriate and I don't think she was somehow condoning his actions by responding how she did. I think her actions were fine for the situation, I'm just curious if there is a better way it could have played out.
 
Principate said:
But why, just why. I don't get it. Is it so hard to understand some people deal with harassment by ignoring it rather than verbal aggression.

Is this a new scientific discovery or something.
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Which is pretty ironic because the kind of people failing to understand why this is wrong due not getting the social cues that the women was sending are also the people that go along ways to avoid any kind of confrontation.

But then again they assume that internet badass counts as real badass.
 
Mulgrok said:
Sorry if I gave off the aura that I am anti women's rights, but I was sexually harassed at my first job in highschool by some female coworkers my own age. I thought if i ignored it they would get bored, but their comments kept escalating. After a couple weeks of ignoring I took the initiative an confronted the one who started it all and magically it all stopped right after that.

If she confronted him and he continued, then she could report him to HR/management/whatever, but not setting firm boundaries is bad professionally... even for other kinds of relationships than sexual.

This i sjust my uninformed view, and take it however misguided it may be. Although, I harbor no ill will toward the victim in this instance... just think the thread is a bit of an overreaction is all. I will cease to continue posting on this subject to prevent further misunderstandings.

Hope ya'll had a great MLK jr. day!
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This is fair enough but this was the was major situation of harassment from this person I'd assume. So she likely though he'd eventually get the idea and buzz off (which does often happen if the person is mildly intelligent).
 
Valnen said:
I'm just saying that it's factually incorrect to say that all of society considers blunt sexual advances to be wrong.
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hello ma'am

i would very much like to tell you i want to fuck you, on the off chance that you may enjoy such a thing.

i0SIOAEtO8psV.png


Zornack said:
Okay, here's what I don't get: how is taking this public better than first telling him to stop, then if any inappropriate behavior continues taking it public? How is jumping straight to taking it public less damaging to the working relationship?

I don't think what she did was wrong, I don't think his behavior was appropriate and I don't think she was somehow was condoning the flirting by responding how she did. I think her actions were fine for the situation, I'm just curious if there is a better way it could have played out.
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the woman in the conversation wasn't the one who made it public.
 
SmokyDave said:
Perhaps I have some sort of spider-sense or something because her responses (or lack of) in the conversation seem more damning to me than 'fuck off' would have been. It's blatantly obvious that she is not picking up what he's putting down.
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I mean, the idea that you'd take her saying she's "chugging along in [her] divorce" as a cue that she wants you to kiss her vagina shows a mind-boggling lack of awareness.
 
Man I hope harlequin wasn't banned for his comments in this thread. Even if you disagree with him he wasn't rude or an asshole. Lame
 
Zornack said:
Okay, here's what I don't get: how is taking this public better than first telling him to stop, then if any inappropriate behavior continues taking it public? How is jumping straight to taking it public less damaging to the working relationship?

I don't think what she did was wrong, I don't think his behavior was appropriate and I don't think she somehow was condoning the flirting by responding how she did. I think her actions were fine for the situation, I'm just curious if there is a better way it could have played out.
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Should she not be free to handle it however she wants?If yes then it doesn't matter how she handled it. In an ideal world the outcome would be the same anyway. It also once again fails to take into account how she felt at the time. For instance maybe she felt so creeped out she decided to ignore the comments instead of adress them directly.
 
HP_Wuvcraft said:
We're not talking about genocide here. We're talking about sexism in a specific industry.

Surely you can see the differences.
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Well, is not like they were not justifications (as justice) to woman second class citizens during the colonies. Surely, as a fellow writter, you can see how your anwser can be troubling even if you are just responding a mostly ignorant commenter.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I'm not like gonna set my copies of God of War on fire or anything but insinuating that she wasn't being professional when the other person is repeatedly talking about his penis and kissing her vagina is one of the most willful exercises in missing the point that I've ever seen.
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This is why I hate Twitter and I'd agree only with the thought that its a shit medium to have any kind of discussion, especially an emotional one, because people make assumptions and everything has to be read between the lines. People here are assuming the worst and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not being a prick.

Its not your fault when you're attacked, but its your responsibility in how you respond to it - a responsibility to yourself. Rather than being passive when in an environment that you control, you should attempt to halt things.

Ignoring the slimy side of his comments and making light was taking a scalpel to work that a hammer would be far more effective with. I guess I just don't find a passive response to be a good one, not when you have control and not once the line has been crossed.

I *think* thats the point Jaffe is trying to make.
 
Awwwwwyeaaaaahhhhh!

Nothin like a good'ol fashion Social Justice Warrior internet mob lynching!

I think it's almost been a week since the last one.

I always wonder though, and please try to enlighten my ignorant ass on this.

But has it ever occurred to you people that this matter is best settled in private? As in, maybe, just maybe that this incident is none of ya'll business?

That guy is an obvious asshole, and I doubt that anything can be done about that, but the amount of righteousness, and zealotry around here is sickening.

Ohhh and for the record, this guy represents himself and himself ONLY!

Not Gamers, not game journalists, not the gaming industry, so can it with the whole "I'm embarrassed to be part of X,Y,Z group" bullshit!
 
J said:
Should she not be free to handle it however she wants? If yes then why the fuck does it matter how she handles it?
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I edited in some more of my thoughts so you might not have caught them but just to clarify I in no way think her actions were wrong, I'm just curious if there was a better way this could have gone done. I think anytime public shaming is involved it might not be the best outcome, but I could very well be wrong and this is the best outcome for this situation.
 
Zornack said:
Okay, here's what I don't get: how is taking this public better than first telling him to stop, then if any inappropriate behavior continues taking it public? How is jumping straight to taking it public less damaging to the working relationship?
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Well, maybe when that guy started talking about how the vagina "has 14 more nerves than the penis", she decided that this guy wasn't someone worth having a working relationship with.
 
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