IndieStatik Founder apologizes for "inappropriate" comments to female game dev

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XANDER CAGE said:
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how unprofessional on her part
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Why isn't he stopping.
 
APF said:
That's literally 100% exactly what you did. You have standards of conduct for her as a victim, but not for him. That makes you a hypocrite as well as a supporter of socially maladjusted behavior. Bravo.
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Yay, you read the first sentence of my long post and replied, completely dismissing the rest, bravo to you. Also, if you had actually read all of my posts in this thread you would know that I do have "standards of conduct" for him. For example, I'm pretty sure I've said multiple times that he should've stopped once he had been told off (which he never was) and that continuing these texts even hours later moves it closer to harassment territory (which clearly implies that he shouldn't have done that).
 
APF said:
That's literally 100% exactly what you did. You have standards of conduct for her as a victim, but not for him. That makes you a hypocrite as well as a supporter of socially maladjusted behavior. Bravo.
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That's not really fair. He obviously broke the standards. No one is arguing that. I think the point he's trying to make is that victims do have options when put in certain circumstances. Some options are better than others.
 
Zabant said:
Reminds me of a friend who has very light Aspergers. Lovely chap but constantly misreads social cues and has a very poor understanding of people politely telling him to back off.

He needs someone to be straight up and say NO or he carries on, seems like Jaffe is in the same boat, or at least thinks sexual advances are ok unless, and only IF they say no.
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I also have friends like this... but they are constantly reminded that is still not a good excuse especially when they are already intelligent adults than can learn the cues to a degree.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
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how unprofessional on her part
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Complete unprofessional to do what she and others like her have done for ages and weigh the consequences of doing something to alienate someone in the industry and potentially fucking your own career up in the process or sucking it up for that moment in time and moving past it. She might have changed her mind after the initial creepiness wore off and anger set in, it happens.
 
FrontierWhiskey said:
I *think* what Jaffe's trying to say - read his whole timeline - is that the harassment is disgusting, but the immediate response of Twitter and forums is to go full on torches and pitchforks, and a more measured response is better. He's tried to bring up some possible reasons why this *might* not have been as awful as it probably is.

That said, he's doing it on Twitter and you know how he is....can be combative. So maybe a call to chill out and get all the facts isn't coming across very well.
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Except he now knows how bad the conversation really was, and that she did not try to lead him on, and it was not reciprocated in any way. SO HE NEEDS TO STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS. THAT IS ALL HE NEEDS TO DO. STOP TALKING.
 
Devolution said:
I think you and some others need to realize sexual harassment in or involving the workplace is a complicated issue precisely because women keep quiet due to the impact on their damn job and livelihood.
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This has been a concern of my partner and friends when this has happened to them.
 
miDnIghtEr20C said:
Would you guys feel like a "victim" if a girl from your job did this to you? Not saying you'd be happy.. maybe some would. But would you feel as a "victim" from text messages?

Like if some drunk co worker sent you a picture of her boobs... would people classify you as the victim of that photo assault? Ha.
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I'll be honest; I'd be into it. But I also understand that there's people that totally wouldn't be into it and for good reason. And that would be totally ok because that's their feelings. If they felt like they were uncomfortable, that's fine. They've got that right.
 
Angelus Errare said:
So to sum up this thread in a nutshell

People defending El douche = Cats who have trouble with women in general/forever alone.
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I haven't seen anyone who has defended this guy. I know I haven't. I was commenting more on the quick to judge mentality of the web specifically gaming journalists. We can discuss this incident without insulting each other.

Ps I'm happily married :p
 
Meh. I don't think his twitter posts were appropriate, but they weren't appalling either. Just sounds like an awkward dude trying a bit too aggressively to get into a (recently divorced?) woman's pants. I haven't researched the entire discussion, but in the OP there are no signs that the woman was outright offended.... not interested, yes, but not some kind of victim requiring a pitchfork and torch whielding mob either.

This shit is tame compared to what I am used to hearing from my peers, but whatever floats the SJW boats.

EDIT: by peers I mean both women and men.
 
PetrCobra said:
See my other reply above, I was under the impression that they know each other quite well. If they don't then that explains a lot and makes some of my previous comments irrelevant.
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Given that the chat was over Facebook means that they were 'friends' on Facebook. Considering I have over 1000 friends on Facebook mixing from family to very close friends to random people I've met over the years, it is easy for anyone paying attention to my updates to come across as knowing me.

Take into consideration that you develop relationships with people all year via email, chat, or other text communication and see these people face to face probably less than a handful of times a year. It is easy have a comfort level because you 'talk' with someone 'all the time', but really you know nothing about that person and having any type of conversation like that in the chat is ludicrous.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
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how unprofessional on her part
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Yep, she was totally asking for it.

Mulgrok said:
Meh. I don't think his twitter posts were appropriate, but they weren't appalling either. Just sounds like an awkward dude trying a bit too aggressively to get into a (recently divorced?) woman's pants. I haven't researched the entire discussion, but in the OP there are no signs that the woman was outright offended.... not interested, yes, but not some kind of victim requiring a pitchfork and torch whielding mob either.

This shit is tame compared to what I am used to hearing from my peers, but whatever floats the SJW boats.

EDIT: by peers I mean both women and men.
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I think the fact that you make the conscious choice to use the term "SJW" in a serious non-ironic way pretty much tells everything we need to know about your stance on this.
 
Harlequin said:
Yay, you read the first sentence of my long post and replied, completely dismissing the rest, bravo to you. Also, if you had actually read all of my posts in this thread you would know that I do have "standards of conduct" for him. For example, I'm pretty sure I've said multiple times that he should've stopped once he had been told off (which he never was)
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Right, it's all her fault. Standards for her, but none for what he actually did. But as you said, you'll eventually evolve away from your anachronistic attitude.

Scrooged said:
That's not really fair. He obviously broke the standards. No one is arguing that.
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No, that's literally what Harlequin is arguing.
 
Harlequin said:
And society also constantly evolves and changes. And it constantly realises that its previous assumptions have been wrong.
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Ok, let's look at the comments for what they are, then.

Are they sexual? Yuppers.

Are they unprovoked? Yup, came out of the blue from what was supposed to be a professional conversation.

Are they unreciprocated? Seems like she kept trying to get back to the topic at hand, yup.

Did he persist in escalating the comments despite the lack of reciprocation? Well, yes.

What would you consider it, then? Harmless flirting? Should she just 'deal with it'? 'It was just a joke'?
 
Tripon said:
Except he now knows how bad the conversation really was, and that she did not try to lead him on, and it was not reciprocated in any way. SO HE NEEDS TO STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS. THAT IS ALL HE NEEDS TO DO. STOP TALKING.
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I totally agree this isn't doing him any favors. I'm pretty sure Twitter isn't the best forum for a point that, while may have merit, is going to be lost in the shitstorm.
 
Dabanton said:
He tried to initiate a bit of late night cybersex. And got no play at all.

That 5.59am message has sunk him though. If he was still 'drunk' then he must be drinking some potent stuff.
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Not to defend what he did, but it's possible he got drunk after the initial batch of stuff. The 5:59am messages are a pretty clear escalation from everything else there. Hell, he might have even thought it was a good idea to go all the way to give himself an alibi.

rain elbows said:
This is the same guy - right? This guy is a world class fucking creeper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vvcQs2wsn4
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oh god
 
Jaffe's "Im not defending him!!" is so goddamn stupid. Like what do you think you're doing by saying she didn't say no, or stop it fast enough, or didn't keep it professional (while being harassed) is? I would be embarrassed to work for that idiot at this point.
 
Satch said:
yeah well society evolved to the point where this is harassment


dismissed.
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You had the opportunity to make an intelligent, meaningful contribution to this discussion and chose to instead make a joke post. Congrats to you, sir. I'm still going to reply to it, anyway (and yes, I'm going to use gross exaggerations to get my point across). At one point in history, society had evolved to a point were treating black people like cattle was considered perfectly fine. At one point in history, society had evolved to a point where just one accusation could get you burned for witchcraft. You see what I'm getting at?
 
Harlequin said:
You had the opportunity to make an intelligent, meaningful contribution to this discussion and chose to instead make a joke post. Congrats to you, sir. I'm still going to reply to it, anyway (and yes, I'm going to use gross exaggerations to get my point across). At one point in history, society had evolved to a point were treating black people like cattle was considered perfectly fine. At one point in history, society had evolved to a point where just one accusation could get you burned for witchcraft. You see what I'm getting at?
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At one point in history, people argued that things like this were just "harmless flirting" and that people should just relax.
 
EdibleKnife said:
I'll be honest; I'd be into it. But I also understand that there's people that totally wouldn't be into it and for good reason. And that would be totally ok because that's their feelings. If they felt like they were uncomfortable, that's fine. They've got that right.
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I agree with you. And I'm not on either persons side to be honest.. my first post I put in this thread I thought this was going to be something worse. This guy was being an idiot and drunk texting,... and the girl did a great job of just I guess being herself and keeping it real. And then she got the last laugh eventually! Ha! So the karma got him back for being an idiot as it is.

Drunk texting.... You better hope that girl/guy is into you before you pull that trigger on it! Otherwise this kind of thing can happen.
 
Isn't Jaffe just saying that there is/was a better way to get this out to people than blasting it on a public forum like Twitter? Like, the authorities? Wouldn't that be a better approach? Like it or not, sexual harassment is a criminal offense. That should've been the first step.

Either way dude's (the scumbag, not Jaffe. Jaffe's decent enough.) a scumbag but it's whatever I guess.
 
enzo_gt said:
Not to defend what he did, but it's possible he got drunk after the initial batch of stuff. The 5:59am messages are a pretty clear escalation from everything else there. Hell, he might have even thought it was a good idea to go all the way to give himself an alibi.


oh god
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It was all fine then the phone number comment came up and my face dropped.

The fuck....
 
Harlequin said:
You had the opportunity to make an intelligent, meaningful contribution to this discussion and chose to instead make a joke post. Congrats to you, sir. I'm still going to reply to it, anyway (and yes, I'm going to use gross exaggerations to get my point across). At one point in history, society had evolved to a point were treating black people like cattle was considered perfectly fine. At one point in history, society had evolved to a point where just one accusation could get you burned for witchcraft. You see what I'm getting at?
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I don't even have enough facepalms for this, really?
 
Harlequin said:
You had the opportunity to make an intelligent, meaningful contribution to this discussion and chose to instead make a joke post. Congrats to you, sir. I'm still going to reply to it, anyway (and yes, I'm going to use gross exaggerations to get my point across). At one point in history, society had evolved to a point were treating black people like cattle was considered perfectly fine. At one point in history, society had evolved to a point where just one accusation could get you burned for witchcraft. You see what I'm getting at?
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Not really? In those situations, other human beings were treated as sub human creatures. I really don't think we'll reach a point in society where casually suggesting to lick an acquaintance's genitals will be acceptable.
 
If the face value verbal/written harassment wasn't enough, the reward for leaking information under NDA was also... more harassment!

It's great that the guy is going to get his life back together, but you can't undo career suicide. It's over. Like Alex Navarro pointed out, if you're going to get drunk, at least try and keep it professional.
 
Mulgrok said:
He is stating something reasonable... try to shut down unwanted advances instead of just letting the snowball roll into pile of overblown shit.
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he isn't saying anything reasonable and if the thing you take away from this situation is "I should teach women how to react in situations and say they aren't victims if they don't follow my exact directions" then you (like Jaffe) are fucking mental.
 
What the IndieStatik guy did was bad enough, but what David Scott Jaffe is tweeting is honestly making me more upset.

I would not blame my kid if someone said something bad to them. I would blame them if same person said something bad to them again
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What?
 
Mulgrok said:
He is stating something reasonable... try to shut down unwanted advances instead of just letting the snowball roll into pile of overblown shit.
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Seriously. And now he's going to get a snowball of shit as people assume the very worst possible motivation behind that tweet.

It doesn't get the guy off the hook for people to have wanted her to shut him down rather than ignoring or joking about it. If a friend came to you asking about getting these kinds of messages would you advise them to ignore them or make light of them through jokes? I wouldn't.
 
Mulgrok said:
He is stating something reasonable... try to shut down unwanted advances instead of just letting the snowball roll into pile of overblown shit.
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The utter lack of reciprocation was her 'shutting them down'. Is that really not crystal clear?

I don't want to cast aspersions but it seems like some sort of lessons on basic human interaction would be beneficial to many people within this community.
 
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