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[jim-jam bongs]

Do you think all personal responsibility should be dismissed? She can decide what is important to her. I do not see her as a big victim here. I just see one big douche and woman who after awhile decided to call his bs out.

She could have ignored him after first idiotic post and done exact the same shameing that we have here. No enduring of long shitty conversation.
But this is all beside the point anyway. I agree in guy being douche, I agree in this callout, I agree in she doing nothing wrong, but I just do not agree her being victim of something terrible here.Just victim of bad posts.
Anyway I should stop as I already posted "i am wasting yours and mine time". Chiao.

What a worthless point to even make. I feel like a victim of your bad posts now.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

The point is that someone shouldn't be in the position to have to choose between being sexually harassed and being able to do her job well in the first place.

And no-where i am diagreeing with that.

What a worthless point to even make. I feel like a victim of your bad posts now.

You are completely free to feel that way. Do not be suprised if almost no-one cares. I do not think as little of her as to make her victim when few vulgar sentences are written to her.
I do not think women should take shit in this industry nor do i think what happened here is a big deal.
But like i wrote, enough of this from me. (Who am i kidding. I'll be back)

What should be done about him? What should happen due to his actions?

Topics like this leave me with a very...confused feeling. One that doesn't make me altogether comfortable.

I'm...trying to find what should be done. Should he be shamed, ridiculed and derided forever? Will people make sure that this is something that sticks to him and follows him to his grave? Should it stop him from ever getting another place in the industry? Should any attempts to make himself better be thrown to the side because of the things he has done? Do we want him to come out of this and see his problems and fix them? Or do we not care about him in any way? Is that the way we make this world and the people in it better? By tossing those who have done awful things to the side and let them rot and fester?

I dunno. This gets real heavy for me sometimes as I never know the right way to handle the people at fault. I just don't think treating them like human garbage is going to teach them anything, help them see their mistakes and make honest amends for them or better themselves as people. Will this make them stop others when they see the same thing repeat itself? Will they teach their kids these new values that they learned from making this mistake and thus enrich the world later by raising children who will not make the same awful mistakes he made? Or is it going to make things worse, is he going to get defensive and internalize all his hate so that he treats people worse and drags the people around him down as well? Will he raise his children and tell them to watch out for "social warriors" and take them down the same path he took but make it more insidious and ingrained in them? I don't know.

This is some real hard shit. I don't think people are binary 1-0, on or off on whether or not they're a good or bad person. I think good people can do some shitty stuff sometimes by mistake or ignorance. I think bad people can have some fleeting moments of altruism or niceness even if by accident. And I don't think an example of either is enough to determine who someone is as a person. We're more complicated than that. We're people, at the end of the day.

I try to stay out of topics like this. I feel it's not really my place as it is not something I'm either familiar with (not being a woman or someone who has been harassed) and not being a subject I have studied extensively. I defer to those with more relevant or educated opinions on the matter and still keep abreast of these threads and read the posts so I can be aware of the situation and people's arguments during it.

I just see so much vitriol it's hard for me to think that's a way that is ever going to end all these hateful acts that people do. I don't think throwing hate at hate resolves anything or makes the world overall better.

Sorry for rambling a bit.

And this here is post worthy of agreeing.

 

[kick51]

I've never heard a human describe to another human how many nerves are in the clitoris as a way to flirt with them.

And now you know how people who've been studying CompSci their whole lives hit on women.

 

[JDSN]

What a worthless point to even make. I feel like a victim of your bad posts now.

Well, according to his logic, you were kinda asking for it.

 

[Featheredkitten]

People behaving badly... on the internet? Welcome to internet anonymity without the anonymity.

But yes, disgusting (albeit very human) behavior. Nothing unexpected but it should certainly carry punitive consequences. Very unprofessional.

I'm really sad that for you, sexual harassment isn't unexpected. I'm really sad for you that being a douchecanoe to a woman is very human behavior.

I am friends with lots of guys, my best friend is a guy and they would never treat me to the gross verbal tsunami that she was treated to. I imagine it's because my friends see me as a person and not just a vagina with a what was it? 7 more nerve endings? Gross. And I think calling this very human behavior is shortchanging both men AND women.

 

[NoirVisage]

Yeah I'm not understanding this either. David Jaffe seriously messed up with the execution, but I don't think there is anything wrong with saying she should've walked away or standing up for herself and saying no to him before needing to resort to what she (maybe?*)did. I don't think it's victim blaming; far from it. No one is mocking or snubbing her for what she did (or lack thereof).



I agree with you except for the bolded part. If she didn't want this to come out then I think her wishes should be respected.

"To hell with what you want; I'll be a good person and show everyone what's going on here!" really doesn't make that person any better than the one harassing the victim.

If she showed anyone that exchange, just for the sake of showing them, and they took it upon themselves to spread it, its almost like a civic duty..sure they may lose a friend in the process, but its the right thing to do.

Actually a lot of women here have posted why this happens, and to take jaffe's and others insistence of 'well why didn't she speak up' also explains why this happens, too.

See beyond the headline? Nobody is talking about the headline, we are talking about a dude who based on his behavior past and present is creepy.

PROTIP: that is the headline.

 

[The Lamp]

What in the hell
That conversation made ME feel uncomfortable.

Way to go to the woman who held her cool throughout, though.

 

[freenudemacusers]

PROTIP: that is the headline.

Well you lost me. Guide me through the subtext.

I can think of exactly one situation where i'd be okay with someone saying "kiss your vagina" to me, and that would be talking to my SO....at which point i'd make fun of him for such a damned awkward phrase.

Pretty sure I would get laughed out of the room if I dropped such a sexy line. Obviously because my wife can't handle that kind of hot language.

 

[besada]

I don't think ANYONE is defending his actions..ANYONE! dude is an island on this one. :O

Actually, I think a number of people are attempting to minimize his actions by placing the onus of not having that conversation on the person who was verbally assaulted.

The entire point of repeatedly suggesting that it's her fault the conversation occurred (which is literally what people who are saying she could have stopped it are doing) is to reduce the negative outcome for the creeper by suggesting that she was a willing party to this conversation because she didn't endanger her job by telling a journalist to fuck off.

 

[Jobbs]

People behaving badly... on the internet? Welcome to internet anonymity without the anonymity.

But yes, disgusting (albeit very human) behavior. Nothing unexpected but it should certainly carry punitive consequences. Very unprofessional.

This may come as a surprise, but there are a lot of men who, every day, manage to not behave remotely like this. Drunk or not.

Beyond all that, I just have to wonder what is wrong with the guy's brain. Who the hell even talks like that?

 

[APF]

I don't get why it's difficult to understand that victims do not always respond to being victimized in ways that someone who has never been victimized in that way fantasizes they should have responded.

 

[Byakuya769]

Actually, I think a number of people are attempting to minimize his actions by placing the onus of not having that conversation on the person who was verbally assaulted.

The entire point of repeatedly suggesting that it's her fault the conversation occurred (which is literally what people who are saying she could have stopped it are doing) is to reduce the negative outcome for the creeper by suggesting that she was a willing party to this conversation because she didn't endanger her job by telling a journalist to fuck off.

Basically: men will be men, why can't women be more respectable and prude nowadays?

 

[NoirVisage]

Actually, I think a number of people are attempting to minimize his actions by placing the onus of not having that conversation on the person who was verbally assaulted.

The entire point of repeatedly suggesting that it's her fault the conversation occurred (which is literally what people who are saying she could have stopped it are doing) is to reduce the negative outcome for the creeper by suggesting that she was a willing party to this conversation because she didn't endanger her job by telling a journalist to fuck off.

The harassment was already completed when he uttered his first few words whether it went on for 3 sentences or 300 it didn't matter, he still had just harassed her and was continuing to do so..
I personally don't think its blaming her for anything by discussing her methods. I still say her peaceful deflection ended up working in his favor though, had she shut him down who knows how he would've reacted.

 

[Featheredkitten]

Basically: men will be men, why can't women be more respectable and prude nowadays?

No, that's unfair to men. That's treating men like they're nothing but urges and OF COURSE can't help but be sex fiends. I hate that argument. It lowers a whole sex down to nothing but beasts.

 

[NoirVisage]

No, that's unfair to men. That's treating men like they're nothing but urges and OF COURSE can't help but be sex fiends. I hate that argument. It lowers a whole sex down to nothing but beasts.

Thanks, I wish society would catch up to this when it comes to men and "cheating", its the cop-out answer of the century.

 

[marrec]

The harassment was already completed when he uttered his first few words whether it went on for 3 sentences or 300 it didn't matter, he still had just harassed her and was continuing to do so..
I personally don't think its blaming her for anything by discussing her methods. I still say her peaceful deflection ended up working in his favor though, had she shut him down who knows how he would've reacted.

The fact that I don't wear knife proof clothing to work every day works out in the knife murderers favor when I eventually get stabbed to death. Really should do something about that.

 

[Senor Kami]

I've successfully done hardcore tries, but this isn't the way to do it. Really unfortunate that he wrapped it up in something semi-work related so now rather than it being spun as random dude is a dick on the internet it's the games industry is nothing but dicks.

Anyways, he's getting his. I don't think he should be excommunicated from life or the industry (primarily because I don't believe this happened in the work place and I don't think one should lose their job over poor quality flirting that takes place outside of work) but being made a fool for foolish actions is fair.

Guys in the game industry should just consider any woman also in the games industry as off limits unless they approach you. Flirting to any degree will get you frontpage on Kotaku as a sexist/misogynist if it comes to light, let alone sending text request to perform cunnilingus.

 

[NoirVisage]

The fact that I don't wear knife proof clothing to work every day works out in the knife murderers favor when I eventually get stabbed to death. Really should do something about that.

did you misquote me? that's a non sequitur if i ever saw one.

 

[marrec]

Guys in the game industry should just consider any woman also in the games industry as off limits unless they approach you. Flirting to any degree will get you frontpage on Kotaku as a sexist/misogynist if it comes to light, let alone sending text request to perform cunnilingus.

I like how this paragraph subtlely paints guys in the game industry as some kind of victimized group. :lol

 

[NoirVisage]

I like how this paragraph subtlely paints guys in the game industry as some kind of victimized group. :lol

dude, now you're just knighting, its good advice in ANY industry, if you're not sure whether the way you approach females is going to get you a case if you try it in the workplace, you probably shouldn't approach anyone of the opposite sex until you take some law courses. personally, I rarely flirt with female co-workers, its just not good practice to poop where you eat.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Guys in the game industry should just consider any woman also in the games industry as off limits unless they approach you. Flirting to any degree will get you frontpage on Kotaku as a sexist/misogynist if it comes to light, let alone sending text request to perform cunnilingus.

Is there some Kotaku article out there where some guy was outed as a misogynist for asking a female colleague if she wanted to grab a cup of coffee sometime?

 

[marrec]

dude, now you're just knighting, its good advice in ANY industry, if you're not sure whether the way you approach females is going to get you a case if you try it in the workplace, you probably shouldn't approach anyone of the opposite sex until you take some law courses. personally, I rarely flirt with a co-worker, its just not good practice to poop where you eat.

That's the point, it's just good practice to not approach someone of the opposite sex in a sexually explicit manner if you're working with them. Regardless if you're a man or a woman or a lawyer or a burger flipper.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

And no-where i am diagreeing with that.

You said she's not a victim. I'd say having to choose between playing along with some dude on the internet wanting to kiss your vagina and doing your job well puts you in a situation of being a victim.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Well, according to his logic, you were kinda asking for it.

I could have walked away at any time.

I've successfully done hardcore tries, but this isn't the way to do it. Really unfortunate that he wrapped it up in something semi-work related so now rather than it being spun as random dude is a dick on the internet it's the games industry is nothing but dicks.

Who is saying this? And even putting aside the fact that the answer to that question is "nobody", if sexual harassment is particularly prevalent in the games industry then why shouldn't it be highlighted?

Anyways, he's getting his. I don't think he should be excommunicated from life or the industry (primarily because I don't believe this happened in the work place and I don't think one should lose their job over poor quality flirting that takes place outside of work) but being made a fool for foolish actions is fair.

Guys in the game industry should just consider any woman also in the games industry as off limits unless they approach you. Flirting to any degree will get you frontpage on Kotaku as a sexist/misogynist if it comes to light, let alone sending text request to perform cunnilingus.

More like guys in any industry shouldn't use lewd descriptions of sex-acts when flirting with someone with whom they have a professional relationship, particularly one where the power balance favours them and they're totally incapable of reading social cues. Plenty of people in the games industry hook up all the time just like any other industry, and that's with both men and women making the first move.

 

[Axass]

Well those were some weird and cringeworthy... ummm... "pick up lines"?

Then you get to the last part and well... I really can't believe he wrote that, though I don't see why this should be brought to the world's attention.

It's full of creeps like that and I don't see how there was harrassment involved, the two were not even in a professional environment, if they were friends she could have just told him to fuck off... or better yet: "stop, please, I'm not comfortable with what you're writing and with your tone".

Spoiler

Have I misread or misunderstood something?

 

[Senor Kami]

I like how this paragraph subtlely paints guys in the game industry as some kind of victimized group. :lol

You need help if that's how you took it.

 

[NTIETS13A_Superiority]

Guys in the game industry should just consider any woman also in the games industry as off limits unless they approach you. Flirting to any degree will get you frontpage on Kotaku as a sexist/misogynist if it comes to light, let alone sending text request to perform cunnilingus.

F that. Light flirting is the joy of life. If it does not come from you naturally, consider other tactics. Just do not do anything stupid.

You said she's not a victim. I'd say having to choose between playing along with some dude on the internet wanting to kiss your vagina and doing your job well puts you in a situation of being a victim.

I do not think she had to play along, but can understand why she did. I do not think she is victim of more than horrible posts in this case. Ofcource this propably not being unusual in industry, she is victim of terrible conditions in this industry.
I am writing stricktly about this case in isolation(as this thread is about this case ).
Besides again this is all beside the point. She could have stopped earlier, but who cares. It is not the point. The guy was a massive arsehole who I despise for blameing "being drunk" and woman who engaged in conversation with him that quickly turned to shit and luckily that woman called his bs out and now we are here. What now? I do not think it is constructive to argue about there being some big crime or not.

 

[NoirVisage]

That's the point, it's just good practice to not approach someone of the opposite sex in a sexually explicit manner if you're working with them. Regardless if you're a man or a woman or a lawyer or a burger flipper.

Burger flippers are exempt, so sayeth Humpty Hump- "i once got busy in a burger king bathroom"

but seriously, i see where you're going with the victim thing, I missed the "front page of kotaku" part.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I've never heard a human describe to another human how many nerves are in the clitoris as a way to flirt with them.

You can literally feel his arousal reading that comment, it's legitimately troubling and icky. In his mind he was already eatin it. It's just so icky. *exaggerated gag gesture*

 

[marrec]

You need help if that's how you took it.

Please help me! I don't know why I keep doing the things that I do!

Or it could be that the way you wrote it made you seem super bitter about all the posts on Kotaku and RPS about these various subjects, as if they're specifically targeting men in the Video Games industry unjustly.

One or the other.

 

[Novan Leon]

I've never heard a human describe to another human how many nerves are in the clitoris as a way to flirt with them.

I'm really sad that for you, sexual harassment isn't unexpected. I'm really sad for you that being a douchecanoe to a woman is very human behavior.

I am friends with lots of guys, my best friend is a guy and they would never treat me to the gross verbal tsunami that she was treated to. I imagine it's because my friends see me as a person and not just a vagina with a what was it? 7 more nerve endings? Gross. And I think calling this very human behavior is shortchanging both men AND women.

This may come as a surprise, but there are a lot of men who, every day, manage to not behave remotely like this. Drunk or not.

Beyond all that, I just have to wonder what is wrong with the guy's brain. Who the hell even talks like that?

I see people say stupid things like this (or worse) and generally behave badly on the internet pretty much every day. In my mind this points to it being symptomatic of human nature. I wonder at how insulated each of you are NOT to see stuff like this online. I'm not justifying the behavior. Personally I find it abhorrent and disgusting, but I'm not shocked by it in the least. The fact that the guy was [most likely] drunk just makes it less unexpected. The noteworthy-ness of this particular instance is the visibility it's being afforded by the perpetrator's position and the professional, gaming industry-related context where sex and sexism is a sensitive topic.

Drunk fool on the internet says sexually explicit things to a female acquaintance. Stupid? Yes. Reprehensible? Yes. Unusual? Probably not as much as you'd think.

 

[Rubius]

Is there some Kotaku article out there where some guy was outed as a misogynist for asking a female colleague if she wanted to grab a cup of coffee sometime?

There is one where a guy have sex on a sonic bed, so I would say probably. I think I saw it a while ago.

There is one where a guy misheard a name and got called derogative for writing vagina instead of virgina.

 

[Featheredkitten]

Well those were some weird and cringeworthy... ummm... "pick up lines"?

Then you get to the last part and well... I really can't believe he wrote that, though I don't see why this should be brought to the world's attention.

It's full of creeps like that and I don't see how there was harrassment involved, the two were not even in a professional environment, if they were friends she could have just told him to fuck off... or better yet: "stop, please, I'm not comfortable with what you're writing and with your tone".

Spoiler

Have I misread or misunderstood something?

The very worst part of that is the time stamps. Dude went back SEVEN HOURS LATER and wrote all that, presumably after he'd slept and woke up.


They kinda were in a professional environment, he was asking her for gaming news, lookin' for leads and whatnot....then suddenly, it's all vagina kissing.

 

[Senor Kami]

Who is saying this? And even putting aside the fact that the answer to that question is "nobody", if sexual harassment is particularly prevalent in the games industry then why shouldn't it be highlighted?

I don't see how you took that as me saying sexual harassment should be swept under the rug.

 

[Jobbs]

dude, now you're just knighting, its good advice in ANY industry, if you're not sure whether the way you approach females is going to get you a case if you try it in the workplace, you probably shouldn't approach anyone of the opposite sex until you take some law courses. personally, I rarely flirt with female co-workers, its just not good practice to poop where you eat.

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to mingle. What I read there was not mingling. It's quite possible for men and women to meet and perhaps get involved without either side behaving like that.

It may be good advice to just not get involved with people related to work, for a variety of reasons, but this notion I caught a whiff of -- That men have to be careful because everyone's so quick to blame them for being men -- That bothered me a bit. Felt old fashioned.

If someone is calling you a pig or a sexist or complaining that your actions were inappropriate, chances are that those things are true. No, it's not just you being masculine and old fashioned and rugged and this new world not understanding you. It's you being an asshole. It's possible to talk to women without asking them if they need a dick for anything. It's even possible to get to know a woman without telling her you'll kiss her vagina. Hell, it's even possible to take it further than that without threatening to render her unable to walk with your sheer manly mastery of her extra nerve endings.

please, guys.

 

[NoirVisage]

F that. Light flirting is the joy of life. If it does not come from you naturally, consider other tactics. Just do not do anything stupid.

Oh wow you're alive!

I agree it can be, but so few know how to do it naturally, especially in this age of people communicating behind computers, you can practically cut through the awkward vibes coming off some of them when they attempt to in person.

 

[Cybit]

What should be done about him? What should happen due to his actions?

Topics like this leave me with a very...confused feeling. One that doesn't make me altogether comfortable.

I'm...trying to find what should be done. Should he be shamed, ridiculed and derided forever? Will people make sure that this is something that sticks to him and follows him to his grave? Should it stop him from ever getting another place in the industry? Should any attempts to make himself better be thrown to the side because of the things he has done? Do we want him to come out of this and see his problems and fix them? Or do we not care about him in any way? Is that the way we make this world and the people in it better? By tossing those who have done awful things to the side and let them rot and fester?

I dunno. This gets real heavy for me sometimes as I never know the right way to handle the people at fault. I just don't think treating them like human garbage is going to teach them anything, help them see their mistakes and make honest amends for them or better themselves as people. Will this make them stop others when they see the same thing repeat itself? Will they teach their kids these new values that they learned from making this mistake and thus enrich the world later by raising children who will not make the same awful mistakes he made? Or is it going to make things worse, is he going to get defensive and internalize all his hate so that he treats people worse and drags the people around him down as well? Will he raise his children and tell them to watch out for "social warriors" and take them down the same path he took but make it more insidious and ingrained in them? I don't know.

This is some real hard shit. I don't think people are binary 1-0, on or off on whether or not they're a good or bad person. I think good people can do some shitty stuff sometimes by mistake or ignorance. I think bad people can have some fleeting moments of altruism or niceness even if by accident. And I don't think an example of either is enough to determine who someone is as a person. We're more complicated than that. We're people, at the end of the day.

I try to stay out of topics like this. I feel it's not really my place as it is not something I'm either familiar with (not being a woman or someone who has been harassed) and not being a subject I have studied extensively. I defer to those with more relevant or educated opinions on the matter and still keep abreast of these threads and read the posts so I can be aware of the situation and people's arguments during it.

I just see so much vitriol it's hard for me to think that's a way that is ever going to end all these hateful acts that people do. I don't think throwing hate at hate resolves anything or makes the world overall better.

Sorry for rambling a bit.

Pretty much this. My biggest issue with much of this is that I don't think people really ever want the offenders to ever get better, they just want to hate on them so they feel better about themselves. The scariest thing to me about the internet isn't the "anonymity" part - sites that force folks to use FB for comments aren't much better than places that have (relative) anonymity. It's the complete lack of empathy that the Internet fosters (thought: perhaps the lack of communication cues, both verbal & non-verbal, exacerbates this point?). Case in point: I'm reasonably sure that even a drunk Josh would not say that to the developer if they were at a bar, in person.

My parents grew up during a fight for independence (India), and they always said the hardest part was not the fighting, it was having to not be dickwads to people who had been / are being dickwads to them. That was the brilliance of Gandhi / MLK / Mandela - they knew fighting hate with hate leads only to a worse place. It most certainly sucks having to explain oneself over and over and over and over again to clueless folks, but it's been shown to be the only way change actually ever sticks.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

No, that's unfair to men. That's treating men like they're nothing but urges and OF COURSE can't help but be sex fiends. I hate that argument. It lowers a whole sex down to nothing but beasts.

I concur with this sentiment. I am a man, I would fucking never behave like that to anyone, friend or stranger. If the guy respects that woman at all, then he would not have done that.

At first it read like a couple of friends having a laugh, but then reached the realms of desperation, embarrassment, and downright sexual predator territory.

Being a man is no excuse for any of that, nor does it attempt to justify it in anyway. The position that because someone is male, means they can, do, or will behave like that, is frankly offensive.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

There is one where a guy have sex on a sonic bed, so I would say probably. I think I saw it a while ago.

There is one where a guy misheard a name and got called derogative for writing vagina instead of virgina.

I... what? I mean, I guess one of those stories does pertain to coffee, but otherwise I have no idea why you have linked me these articles in response to what I wrote.

 

[Prophet Steve]

I see people say stupid things like this (or worse) and generally behave badly on the internet pretty much every day. In my mind this points to it being symptomatic of human nature. I wonder at how insulated each of you are NOT to see stuff like this online. I'm not justifying the behavior. Personally I find it abhorrent and disgusting, but I'm not shocked by it in the least. The fact that the guy was [most likely] drunk just makes it less unexpected. The noteworthy-ness of this particular instance is the visibility it's being afforded by the perpetrator's position and the professional, gaming industry-related context where sex and sexism is a sensitive topic.

Drunk fool on the internet says sexually explicit things to a female acquaintance. Stupid? Yes. Reprehensible? Yes. Unusual? Probably not as much as you'd think.

This is not some random guy on the internet. These people seem to know each other a bit more personally. They are not anonymous to each other. I would not see it as too unusual in that case.

 

[Rubius]

You can literally feel his arousal reading that comment, it's legitimately troubling and icky. In his mind he was already eatin it. It's just so icky. *exaggerated gag gesture*

I had a couple of girls do similar advances to me and even if I was not interested they kept texting me while I was at work. They stopped when I ignored them, and I didnt go around showing my cellphone and the texts to everybody around me to shame the girls. Now it's out in the open, so of course he will be shamed for it, just like the Amazing Atheist got shamed for the Bananagate story.

It will die down, people will make comment about it, and it will be in the back of everybody mind for a long time. But it's really not that bad. He flirted with a women by text, maybe thousands of miles away from her and she didnt show any sign of being uncomfortable or wanting to stop it. It's really not a crime or something that do not happen every single second everywhere.

 

[NoirVisage]

I... what? I mean, I guess one of those stories does pertain to coffee, but otherwise I have no idea why you have linked me these articles in response to what I wrote.

Its his way of saying ban kotaku.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

There is one where a guy have sex on a sonic bed, so I would say probably. I think I saw it a while ago.

There is one where a guy misheard a name and got called derogative for writing vagina instead of virgina.

I think we need Jason to get in here and explain why his organisation is so dead-set on demonising men who think Vagina is a woman's name.

I don't see how you took that as me saying sexual harassment should be swept under the rug.

I didn't get that from it. You said that it's being characterised as "all men in the games industry are dicks" which isn't even true, and I asked why we wouldn't want to draw particular attention to it if it actually is more prevalent than elsewhere.

 

[Rubius]

I... what? I mean, I guess one of those stories does pertain to coffee, but otherwise I have no idea why you have linked me these articles in response to what I wrote.

Well Kotaku probably deleted the article. There is actually an article about it on Everyday Feminism.

 

[mattiewheels]

The way I see it, if she was face to face with the guy and he started saying that shit (and I doubt he'd have the balls to), then I see her telling him to stop right away. But in a FB message, where he's just documenting his own harassment for the whole world to see a record of? I could see why she would just hang back and let him keep going with it once he uttered that first crazy nugget. And the key is that she did nothing to keep him going, she just went neutral, so it was squarely on him and he just hung himself.

 

[Homunculus]

After 30 pages, I can only add this:

Saying "I'll kiss you on your vagina" is a pretty creepy thing to say. In any context. I imagine that if anyone actually said that during sex that it would just be so weird that it would kill the mood.

Let alone in a conversation on the internet when nothing sexual has been segued in to the conversation at all.

Creepy. Bad form and all that.

 

[SmokyDave]

Flirting's fucking great, but if your idea of flirting includes the phrase 'I will kiss you on the vagina', you should do something else instead.

I find it hugely ironic that this chap would host a show called 'Dirty Talk Dating' if that's his idea of dirty talk. Sounds like a line I'd have dropped when I was 14.

 

[Featheredkitten]

Well Kotaku probably deleted the article. There is actually an article about it on Everyday Feminism.

That's an article on how to properly flirt so you don't creep someone out. I don't get your point.

 

[Prophet Steve]

I had a couple of girls do similar advances to me and even if I was not interested they kept texting me while I was at work. They stopped when I ignored them, and I didnt go around showing my cellphone and the texts to everybody around me to shame the girls. Now it's out in the open, so of course he will be shamed for it, just like the Amazing Atheist got shamed for the Bananagate story.

It will die down, people will make comment about it, and it will be in the back of everybody mind for a long time. But it's really not that bad. He flirted with a women by text, maybe thousands of miles away from her and she didnt show any sign of being uncomfortable or wanting to stop it. It's really not a crime or something that do not happen every single second everywhere.

Having a couple of girls do similar advancements and calling this flirting really makes me wonder with what type of people you interact.

And yes, sexual harassment is a crime, having it happen constantly makes it worse, not better. Ignoring someones comments, which in the first place should not have happened at all, is an indication that it is not appreciated.

EDIT: And instead of keep linking articles, could you just state your points? Because I am pretty sure I am not the only one not getting you.

 

[Jobbs]

What should be done about him? What should happen due to his actions?

This is a tough question. I don't know the answer. I think it's possible for some people to change. Other people are just assholes and always will be. And I have no idea who's who.

All I can do is speak for myself -- I found his behavior pretty gross and I have a difficult time relating to it as a "I'm not like that, I just slipped up and seemed to be like that" type of incident. This seemed to truly be how this dude rolls. There are a lot of websites to go to, and so I just wouldn't go to his. Other people can make up their own minds about that.