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[Calamari41]

I feel like most people would view the Jedi with mistrust and even anger for various reasons, fuelled by an Empire that needed them out of the way. The Imperials of ANH onwards would be subject to the same propaganda. Those that existed at the time of Order 66 and would remember the Clone Wars could have a very good reason, in their view, of why the Jedi were bad news - namely that Force users had a misunderstood ability and they used it to wage a war against one another, embroiling the galaxy in turmoil.

Maybe Palpatine exposes the Jedi as being behind both the Clone Army and the Droid Army, fabricating the entire war themselves as one massive false flag in order to install themselves as rulers of the galaxy. After they're rightfully wiped out, parents don't teach their children about the genocidal maniacs who almost plunged the galaxy into a thousand years of darkness.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

The best thing to come from the prequels was Plinkett

I enjoy the Plinkett stuff well enough but Auralnauts are far more entertaining for me

 

[Grym]

vader_noooooooooooooooooo.gif

 

[teeny]

Maybe Palpatine exposes the Jedi as being behind both the Clone Army and the Droid Army, fabricating the entire war themselves as one massive false flag in order to install themselves as rulers of the galaxy. After they're rightfully wiped out, parents don't teach their children about the genocidal maniacs who almost plunged the galaxy into a thousand years of darkness.

And then Luke essentially becomes a Holocaust-denying Neo-Nazi. Right!

 

[Sephzilla]

If you're going to paint Anakin's fall to the dark side as a tragedy, make the audience eventually hate him, and make Palpatine and the Empire evil - the last thing you should do is either expose that the Jedi were behind something or make the Jedi look too flawed. It ultimately justifies Anakin's actions and makes him "right" - which isn't what you should do.

 

[Calamari41]

If you're going to paint Anakin's fall to the dark side as a tragedy, make the audience eventually hate him, and make Palpatine and the Empire evil - the last thing you should do is either expose that the Jedi were behind something or make the Jedi look too flawed. It ultimately justifies Anakin's actions and makes him "right" - which isn't what you should do.

If this is directed to me, I agree. I was saying that Palpatine should lie to the populace about the Jedi being behind everything, in order to discredit them and turn everyone against them. Basically blame them for everything he was actually doing, and use that to erase them from history. They kind of did this already in Episode III, but that was just a fabricated coup attempt. Should have gone big and pinned the whole false flag war on them.

 

[teeny]

If you're going to paint Anakin's fall to the dark side as a tragedy, make the audience eventually hate him, and make Palpatine and the Empire evil - the last thing you should do is either expose that the Jedi were behind something or make the Jedi look too flawed. It ultimately justifies Anakin's actions and makes him "right" - which isn't what you should do.

I think Anakin needs to be "right", but take it way way too far. But that has to happen for a good reason. This is essentially why the "turn" had to be during or at the end of the second film. The Jedi need to be culpable somehow, but they also need to be used by the Emperor so you still sympathise with them. Having the Order fracture and essentially have members on both sides of a massive conflict would do that, methinks.

It's a fine line, though, yeah.

Kind of OT, though, but it does highlight that a lot of people's expectations simply weren't met by what was dished up. RotS may be entertaining enough, it may be the best of the prequels, but the foundation simply doesn't work in a lot of fan's brains. The dislike of those three films ultimately stems from an inability to reconcile what is known and loved about the OT with what was shown in the PT.

 

[Sephzilla]

If this is directed to me, I agree. I was saying that Palpatine should lie to the populace about the Jedi being behind everything, in order to discredit them and turn everyone against them. Basically blame them for everything he was actually doing, and use that to erase them from history. They kind of did this already in Episode III, but that was just a fabricated coup attempt. Should have gone big and pinned the whole false flag war on them.

Ahhhh ok thanks for the clarification. If that's the case then yeah, I like that idea.

 

[DrArchon]

It's a shit movie with some genuinely cool parts. Its considerably better than the first two but stilll a bad movie.

It's FAR better than AotC, but I actually think that TPM is better than RotS when I look back on it. Aside from Darth Maul and the Trade Federation being complete nothing villains, I feel like the movie mostly works as a weird kind of side-story in the Star Wars universe, which it obviously isn't, but easily could be with some minor tweaks and name changes.

 

[Imperfected]

Awww man, here comes a new contender with a hot, fresh take on some wild mental gymnastics to try and recontextualize the prequels as non-standard narrative works of artistic genius! This is gonna be...

... wait, whut? You're just flat out asking if RotS is good?

No. Revenge of the Sith is terrible. Everyone knows its terrible. The only reason anyone even pretends it isn't terrible is because writing a wild dissertation that's moderately convincing in establishing the fact would be a modern A Modest Proposal.

If you haven't got some sort of persuasive five-dimensional logic breakdance that expands all of our perception into a new world-pane where the prequels weren't awful, why even bother asking?

 

[Calamari41]

I think Anakin needs to be "right", but take it way way too far.

This could be achieved very easily and believably without even changing too much. Make Anakin push hard for the Republic to go all General Sherman on the Separatists. The Jedi rebuff him because that's not Light Side enough for them, and this results in several missed opportunities to end the war, culminating in the Separatists pulling off an atrocity that results in Padme and the infants' deaths (Luke and Leia secretly survive) along with a lot of other innocents. Enraged, Anakin goes to the guy who will let him unleash: Palpatine. Except when he goes Dark, Palpatine goads him into pulling off something less like Sherman's March to the Sea and more like the Soviet March to Berlin.

Then Palpatine "discovers" that the Jedi were behind both armies from the start, and the Jedi purge begins.

 

[teeny]

This could be achieved very easily and believably without even changing too much. Make Anakin push hard for the Republic to go all General Sherman on the Separatists. The Jedi rebuff him because that's not Light Side enough for them, and this results in several missed opportunities to end the war, culminating in the Separatists pulling off an atrocity that results in Padme and the infants' deaths (Luke and Leia secretly survive) along with a lot of other innocents. Enraged, Anakin goes to the guy who will let him unleash: Palpatine. Except when he goes Dark, Palpatine goads him into pulling off something less like Sherman's March to the Sea and more like the Soviet March to Berlin.

Aaand something like this will forever be my "headcanon".

 

[Garlador]

This could be achieved very easily and believably without even changing too much. Make Anakin push hard for the Republic to go all General Sherman on the Separatists. The Jedi rebuff him because that's not Light Side enough for them, and this results in several missed opportunities to end the war, culminating in the Separatists pulling off an atrocity that results in Padme and the infants' deaths (Luke and Leia secretly survive) along with a lot of other innocents. Enraged, Anakin goes to the guy who will let him unleash: Palpatine. Except when he goes Dark, Palpatine goads him into pulling off something less like Sherman's March to the Sea and more like the Soviet March to Berlin.

Then Palpatine "discovers" that the Jedi were behind both armies from the start, and the Jedi purge begins.

This is really good.

Is it too late for a redo?

 

[Sephzilla]

This could be achieved very easily and believably without even changing too much. Make Anakin push hard for the Republic to go all General Sherman on the Separatists. The Jedi rebuff him because that's not Light Side enough for them, and this results in several missed opportunities to end the war, culminating in the Separatists pulling off an atrocity that results in Padme and the infants' deaths (Luke and Leia secretly survive) along with a lot of other innocents. Enraged, Anakin goes to the guy who will let him unleash: Palpatine. Except when he goes Dark, Palpatine goads him into pulling off something less like Sherman's March to the Sea and more like the Soviet March to Berlin.

Then Palpatine "discovers" that the Jedi were behind both armies from the start, and the Jedi purge begins.

ThatsGoodThatsDamnGood.gif

 

[teeny]

This thread inspired me to go look through a bunch of prequel era concept art and the Phantom Menace has the best stuff, without a shadow of a doubt.

And, honestly, I really love a lot of the designs. It is a real shame many of them were simplified or cartoon-ified because the iconography is really great and it represents a movie in a Star Wars era I would really like to see. It's classical-esque aesthetic is something I could really see existing in a time period a few hundred years BBY.

Some of the stuff from the later two movies is excellent, too, but by then a lot of the designs have been hampered by choices made getting them on screen (Jedi robes, for instance).

 

[Eidan]

What's the worst line from REVENGE OF THE SITH?

"Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our specialty." -Obi-Wan

"My powers have doubled since the last time we met, Count." | "Good. Twice the pride, double the fall." -Anakin and Count Dooku

"Wait a minute, how did this happen, we're smarter than this!" -Obi-Wan

"You owe me one, and for not saving your skin for the tenth time." | "Ninth time. That business on Cato Neimodia doesn't- doesn't count." -Anakin and Obi-Wan

"You are so... beautiful." | "It's only because I'm so in love." | "No, it's because I'm so in love with you." | "So love has blinded you?" | "Well, that's not exactly what I meant." | "But it's probably true." -Anakin and Padmé

"Have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side? What if the democracy we thought we were serving no longer exists? And the Republic has become the very evil we've been fighting to destroy?" -Padmé

"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo... so long ago when there was nothing but our love. No politics, no plotting, no war." -Padmé

"No! No! No! YOU WILL DIE!" -Supreme Chancellor Palpatine

"Killed not by clones, this Padawan, but by a lightsaber he was." -Yoda

"I have seen... a security hologram... of him... killing younglings." -Obi-Wan

"I don't know you any more. Anakin! You're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can't follow!" -Padmé

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi-Wan

"I have waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend." -Emperor Palpatine

"Not if anything to say about it I have." -Yoda

"From my point of view, it is the Jedi who are evil." -Anakin

"From my point of view..." was being mocked opening weekend. It takes the crown.

 

[void666]

Doesn't stink as much as the other films, but it's still a piece of turd.

It’s the only prequel movie i have in my collection.

 

[brickarts295]

I GOT YOU OP. Episode 3 is my 2nd favorite SW film behind Empire. I grew up with the prequels so all the criticism and comparisons with the originals don't apply to me. I do agree that Phantom was meh and Clone was mediocre at best. But Revenge was a good film with flaws.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

It was shit and will always be shit. Better than number 2, though.

 

[Schlorgan]

My interpretation of these movies is that Lucas was driven by his ego to make more Star Wars movies even though, deep down, he had no desire to. The end product is a result of him wanting to get them done and out the door as quickly as possible in a vain attempt to regain some of his former glory.

I think the way in which the movies are terrible is interesting but I don't think they can be called "good" by any stretch of the word.

 

[Geist-]

I think a better prequel series would have been all-out war between Jedi and non-rule of two Sith. It's obviously been brought up in various EU sources, but you get awesome battles between force users and lightsaber wielders, there is suddenly a reason for the Galaxy to hate force users since the public perception is sith and jedi are the same, and it could have ended with Palpatine killing all of the Jedi and the Sith in a massive act of betrayal that left him enacting the Rule of Two himself and a mandate from the public to protect them from the dangers of the force.Add some actual, believable reasons for Anakin to turn out the way he did, and the prequels could have been great.

But that didn't happen, and they're all terrible. Best if we just forget they ever happened.

 

[StayDead]

vader_noooooooooooooooooo.gif

Can I be serious for a second? I honestly didn't think that was too absurd. Anakin throughout all of this was tricked into believing what he was doing was right and just, in order to save her and everyone else by the evil Jedi. He's then told that after all he's done, she's dead and now he's basically trapped as the bad guy. Sure by ANH he's fully evil, but even at the end of RoTJ he regains some of his humanity which is something he long since buried after his past.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Originality does not automatically earn points. The originality of the prequels is something that's massively exaggerated anyway

1000 times this.

If you eat rice everyday but now you are given shit, i bet no one would chose the shit to eat, they'll keep with the rice. Different =/= good.

 

[DrArchon]

Can I be serious for a second? I honestly didn't think that was too absurd. Anakin throughout all of this was tricked into believing what he was doing was right and just, in order to save her and everyone else by the evil Jedi. He's then told that after all he's done, she's dead and now he's basically trapped as the bad guy. Sure by ANH he's fully evil, but even at the end of RoTJ he regains some of his humanity which is something he long since buried after his past.

It's mostly that the relationship between Anakin and Padme was never believable because the acting and writing regarding it was the worst thing ever put to film, so the huge emotional outburst seems unearned.

Also, thanks for reminding me why I hate the ending of RotS. So Anakin realizes he was tricked and has this huge outbust because everything he did for Palpatine was pointless because Padme died, right? So why does he just shrug it off and get back to working for Palpatine? He should be furious at the guy for lying to him, and given his emotional instability at that moment you'd think he'd immediately try to murder Palpatine at that instant.

Awful scene, all around.

 

[120v]

Also, thanks for reminding me why I hate the ending of RotS. So Anakin realizes he was tricked and has this huge outbust because everything he did for Palpatine was pointless because Padme died, right? So why does he just shrug it off and get back to working for Palpatine? He should be furious at the guy for lying to him, and given his emotional instability at that moment you'd think he'd immediately try to murder Palpatine at that instant.

well it wasn't apparent he realized he'd been "tricked", i think the point was he 'killed' her on his own volition

my take was he remained slumming it on the dark side with Palps because he had nothing else to live for

 

[Bolivar687]

TFA though is the most horrible thing I can imagine for the Star Wars franchise. It is the epitome of everything Lucas wasn't when he created Star Wars in the 70s. It is the celluloid embodiment of the hollywood-industrial complex. Overly focus tested fanservice drivel where every step of the filmmaking process as been set intune with maximizing merchandise and box office money. Yes the characters are more charismatic, joking around all the time while being tortured, hunted and witnessing mass genocide. And yes in terms of cinematography, look, dialogue and acting it surpasses the prequels easily.
But everything about it feels fake and unearned.

"Who talks first? Do I talk first, do you talk first?"

 

[Sephzilla]

"Who talks first? Do I talk first, do you talk first?"

My belief for this was that it was a subtle way of showing the audience that Kylo Ren doesn't carry the Vader-tier intimidation factor that he wants to have. Which is pretty consistent with what the character is supposed to be, anyway.

 

[Biske]

This is really good.

Is it too late for a redo?

After the recent LOTR remake when? Thread in OT the other day, I was thinking how if there is one series that could really use some remaking... the prequel trilogy. I dunno when is a good time, but could make something really really spectacular.

 

[flintstryker]

Having no attachment to these movies I would say this isn't much worse than the new one, dialog is pretty awful though which is funny because Hayden's facial acting is actually pretty good. In fact the only one of these movies that I think is flat out terrible is Attack of the clones which is just painfully boring and the only one that is really great is Empire the others are mostly middling.

 

[Veritigo_X]

You make some good points OP, but unfortunately it looks like Hayden Christensen is still in the movie.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

No, OP, consensus doesnt change just because you liked the movie, lol.

It was bad then and, in hindsight, its worse now.

 

[Walter White Walker]

I put it equal to Thor 2, but now I think about it I should of put worse. At least with Thor 2 I remember virtually nothing about it, while unfortunately I do remember bits and pieces of this movie.

 

[Biske]

No, OP, consensus doesnt change just because you liked the movie, lol.

It was bad then and, in hindsight, its worse now.

Seriously, in watching all the clips everybody (and myself) has been posting in this thread. I realize these movies are way way waaaaaaaaay worse than I even remembered.

 

[Greatest Ever]

My belief for this was that it was a subtle way of showing the audience that Kylo Ren doesn't carry the Vader-tier intimidation factor that he wants to have. Which is pretty consistent with what the character is supposed to be, anyway.

Right, but the Joss Whedon delivery is extremely jarring and very generic, for a lack of a better word.

 

[Htown]

TFA though is the most horrible thing I can imagine for the Star Wars franchise. It is the epitome of everything Lucas wasn't when he created Star Wars in the 70s. It is the celluloid embodiment of the hollywood-industrial complex. Overly focus tested fanservice drivel where every step of the filmmaking process as been set intune with maximizing merchandise and box office money. Yes the characters are more charismatic, joking around all the time while being tortured, hunted and witnessing mass genocide. And yes in terms of cinematography, look, dialogue and acting it surpasses the prequels easily.
But everything about it feels fake and unearned.

I guess we're at an impasse, then, because literally everything you just said is wrong. Guess we just aren't going to agree.

 

[Roufianos]

Best Star Wars movie by far in my opinion. Not sure if I'd put it above Goodfellas as my favourite film overall but it's close.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

My belief for this was that it was a subtle way of showing the audience that Kylo Ren doesn't carry the Vader-tier intimidation factor that he wants to have. Which is pretty consistent with what the character is supposed to be, anyway.

It's not like other characters weren't sassy in tense situations.

"Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board."

 

[88random]

At least it's watchable in comparison to ep I and II.

 

[Frodo]

It does have a nice opening scene. I'll give you that.

The acting and people dying from broken hearts are too much though.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

It's easily the best and most watchable of the prequel trilogy. That doesn't make it a better movie than it is.

 

[PeskyToaster]

"Who talks first? Do I talk first, do you talk first?"

"We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

 

[Biske]

My belief for this was that it was a subtle way of showing the audience that Kylo Ren doesn't carry the Vader-tier intimidation factor that he wants to have. Which is pretty consistent with what the character is supposed to be, anyway.

I take it more of a situation where Poe is definitely terrified,but his way of dealing with things and dealing with empire thugs is pure un-seriousness and flippancy. In that moment is as big as a blow as he can deal to them. "I'm gonna be a total jackass big tough guy, thats what I think of you and your power. I don't care"

 

[DavidDesu]

4. Grievous (fuck you he's awesome)
5. First 25 minutes
6. Anakin killing Gunray and his cronies
7. Order 66 sequence
8. Windu's pretty hardcore death
9. Last few scenes, Padme's funeral, closing shots
10. Bail Organa is boss
11. Yoda and Palpatine fight

Can't do this with TPM!

I see this a lot from people defending the prequels, just lists of things that happened. Like is THAT all you are judging from a film, bullet points of dramatic things that are going on!? A film, indeed a well told story is about the execution and how it all gels together to form something coherent. The prequels were jam packed with "things", but 90% of it was utter shit. Certainly didn't gel together, did not invoke any genuine feelings on behalf of the viewer. Basically we didn't care.

Does anyone really care about Anakin in these films? He's a creep, there's nothing to really root for in him. Compare that to how most people see Luke, or even Rey. We love them, we want to be them, they kick ass and they're just good people, good characters we care for and want to know how their story ends etc. Anakin, hell even Obi Wan and Padme in the prequels... Could not give a fuck! Terribly done films, I don't care how many bullet points you throw at me of things happening, it's all for nought when the execution is diabolical.

 

[DavidDesu]

Dumb question, but you guys who love ROTS, you all voted Trump didn't you?

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

Such a disappointment, the build up and fall to the dark side just makes zero sense whatsoever within the story barring some form of mental illness on the part of sky walker. I actually watched this on Friday for the first time in years and had to fast forward through about a third of it. My five year old and i are halfway through clone wars and hes agitating to watch this now, again days after I watched it on my own. How you get from clone wars skywalker to killing younglings skywalker is going to confuse the hell out of him.

 

[GamerJM]

I voted equal to Thor 2.

Spoiler

I don't think either movie is bad and I enjoyed both, but there's far, far better in both franchises. They're both deeply flawed but also both movies I don't regret watching.

 

[The Lamonster]

I think AOTC gets too much hate. If you compartmentalize every scene in the prequels and ignore the dumb stuff, there's a lot of awesome scenes, albeit mostly action scenes.

ROTS probably has the best of those 'good' scenes, but AOTC has a lot of them too.

TPM has an awesome intro, the pod race and the duel of the fates.

All three have almost equally amazing music.

 

[Sephzilla]

It's not like other characters weren't sassy in tense situations.

"Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash. I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board."

Not to mention the entire escape from the Death Star sequence is loaded with quips and sass

 

[takriel]

How can you be so bad at writing character lines? Jesus. I could do better than this shit.

 

[gogosox82]

Sorry OP. I think its trash. Some decent action scenes does not save it because you still have to slog through that god awful story and dialogue.