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Is it time to accept Revenge of the Sith as "one of the good" SW films? SPOILERS
- Thread starter enigmatic_alex44
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If all things that are wrong with EP3 I think this goes in the nitpick bin. I do actually like his delivery too even if it's ham.
Worst line has to be NOOOO.
Yup, worst line in the movie.
That line (and it's addition to ROTJ) are basically proof that everyone around Lucas was a yes man/woman. Anyone with some level of common sense should have pointed out how out of character those lines were for Vader and ruined those scenes.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
No
Triggerhappytel
Member
Kylo Ren is great. He already has far more depth and nuance than any villain from the prequel trilogy. Fuck; probably any character altogether.
Love this movie and I don't care who knows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST1t2mBkykA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST1t2mBkykA
better than 7
The Lamonster
Member
Also the first 20 minutes of ROTS are fucking awesome.
spookyfish
Member
It has some great visual and musical moments with little to no dialogue in it --- Order 66; Anakin/Padme looking over the horizon at Coruscant; long shot of Yoda/Palpatine in the Senate; *some of* the battle above the lava river (some of that was awfully done, though); juxtoposition of birth of the twins and "creation" of Vader.
But then there are the dialogue and acting issues that others mention.
"Do you love me because I love you?" "No, I love you loving me because you loved me loving you."
And then the Padme losing her will to live scene. REALLY?
noooooo is pretty fucking bad just because it's mother fucking vader in the mother fucking suit saying it.
but "only a sith deals in absolutes" might just take the cake. like FUCK.
or "from my point of view the jedi are evil". A TIER BAD GUY WRITING RIGHT THERE
Noooo ruins what is otherwise a pretty solid scene.
But yeah, "only a sith deals in absolutes" is pretty dumb as is Padme losing the will to live after just giving birth to two children she apparently doesn't want to take care of. In some regards Episode 3 really takes the cake in terms of stupidity.
But yeah, "only a sith deals in absolutes" is pretty dumb as is Padme losing the will to live after just giving birth to two children she apparently doesn't want to take care of. In some regards Episode 3 really takes the cake in terms of stupidity.
Issues like this(and more) is why I have ROTJ over this movie.
Well ROTJ has the best sequence in the entire franchise. So I understand.
How people can put ROTS over ROTJ kind of boggles my mind when the Emperor/Luke/Vader stuff alone is better written and more emotional than anything in the prequel trilogy
Well ROTJ has the best sequence in the entire franchise. So I understand.
How people can put ROTS over ROTJ kind of boggles my mind when the Emperor/Luke/Vader stuff alone is better written and more emotional than anything in the prequel trilogy
I honestly think people boil Sith down to:
-daker = better
-Palpatine and Vader do stuff, and we finally get to see the prequel stuff we care about that tie into the OT, unlike the other two shitty useless prequels
-omgs teh epic lightsaber battle of epicness
And boil Jedi down to:
-wow ewoks so kiddy and dum
and thus Sith > Jedi.
which is insane
Imperfected
Member
Listen, sometimes kids were a bad choice, that's all she's saying.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
I asked my wife about her opinions of the OT and the PT. We only watched all 6 movies within the past 1.5-2 years, so her opinion is very different than, say, someone like a lot of GAF who went to the opening showings of the PT.
My wife had a very good point (and one that I agree with). The PT movies aren't great, but they give a good picture of what happened before the OT. So even if the acting and dialog are hot garbage in a lot of spots (see ROTS), the story the PT tells (the big picture story, not the little vignettes) were good building blocks for the OT and beyond.
And I don't think she's wrong. Anakin couldn't have been written to be more of a creepy turd of human being, but it's good to see how he went from a little kid to a power hungry maniac willing to do anything (like kill children) to get the power he felt he deserved. Sure, you can read books or articles to get that info, but the movies provide a different way of feeding the interested parties that information.
So no - I don't think ROTS is one of the "good" SW movies, but I don't think it's nearly as terrible as die hard fans tend to think it is. Newer generation Star Wars fans seem to enjoy the PT and the OT just fine for different reasons.
My wife had a very good point (and one that I agree with). The PT movies aren't great, but they give a good picture of what happened before the OT. So even if the acting and dialog are hot garbage in a lot of spots (see ROTS), the story the PT tells (the big picture story, not the little vignettes) were good building blocks for the OT and beyond.
And I don't think she's wrong. Anakin couldn't have been written to be more of a creepy turd of human being, but it's good to see how he went from a little kid to a power hungry maniac willing to do anything (like kill children) to get the power he felt he deserved. Sure, you can read books or articles to get that info, but the movies provide a different way of feeding the interested parties that information.
So no - I don't think ROTS is one of the "good" SW movies, but I don't think it's nearly as terrible as die hard fans tend to think it is. Newer generation Star Wars fans seem to enjoy the PT and the OT just fine for different reasons.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Lot of the ROTS love is really arbitrary and fanboyish imo. Might as well give extra points to ROTJ for having Han Solo in it.
Although if Lucas had his way, ROTS would have had that as well.
Rawr Its Ry
Member
It's the best prequel, but fuck no it's not one of the best Sw films.
On a side note why do people think AoTC is worse than PM?
On a side note why do people think AoTC is worse than PM?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The sand line.
The worst parts of the movie were the overlong fight scene and Obi-Wan not nudging Anakin into the lava.
Sorry, Anakin! I'm just going to watch you catch fire.
The best part of the film is how Obi-Wan outmaneuvers Anakin. I rarely engage in Schadenfreude, but I love how irate Star Wars fannerds get with the notion that a fencer with an elevated position has an advantage.
Sorry, Anakin! I'm just going to watch you catch fire.
The best part of the film is how Obi-Wan outmaneuvers Anakin. I rarely engage in Schadenfreude, but I love how irate Star Wars fannerds get with the notion that a fencer with an elevated position has an advantage.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Everything after 6 has been slowly killing the franchise.
Duane Cunningham
Member
Which is so ridiculously sad, because the premise behind say, Count Dooku leaves room for some great story exploration. He's basically the Jefferson Davis of space, leader of the Confederacy, except if Lincoln was actually evil and secretly HIS boss as well as his public opponent. The planets and systems who are members of the Confederacy of Independent Systems believe in their cause. They think the Republic is corrupt, useless and not business friendly... and as soon as they tried to pull out, the Republic suddenly summoned a weird "Grand Army" of clones. Their generals are a strange, secretive supernatural cult who seem to have super powers or at least claim to. From the Separatist point of view, they're definitely justified in wanting out.
BUT, deep down, their leader secretly DOESN'T believe in their cause. HE knows that he's just going through the motions and it's all a complete sham concocted by his boss. But what does he think? Strategically, he still has battles to win, Generals to lead and resources to procure. During those four years, does he actually want the CIS to win? Does he believe in the CIS's quasi-libertarian ideals?
There's a lot to explore within the wider lore of the prequels, too bad the prequels themselves didn't do it.
It's stupid in the context of a universe with space wizards with laser swords who can jump 20 feet into the air and deflect bullets blindfolded. Or, you know, Anakin could have just went 5 feet down river and walked onto shore.
It's boring, the acting, dialog, writing, felt rushed towards the end, romance scenes, Anakin himself, etc.
Phantom Menace for the most part has a complete story arc from start to finish, a better final lightsaber duel, a conflict between two sides that actually makes some sense, a villain who appears onscreen sooner than a fucking hour into the movie, the acting is generally better, the pod race scene is pretty cool, and Phantom Menace doesn't commit a character assassination of Yoda.
Attack of the Clones is a series of unrelated events and hilariously bad character decisions that awkwardly come together in a finale that accomplishes nothing and sets up one more movie.
Anakin fell way too quickly. The events that unfolded should have taken place over a longer period of time and should have received more time in film. So it all comes down to pacing, really.
He was far too okay with murdering children way too quickly, for example.
Anakin's dialog was terrible as well. His drive was that he would stop at literally nothing to save Padme. So while I can give a pass to his desire to fight Obi Wan at the end, I do not buy for one second that he would have force choked Padme the way he did. Blinded by dark side ambition or not.
Bad pacing, bad writing decisions. Anakin wasn't believable.
The best element of the movie was Ewan's Obi Wan, as always.
He was far too okay with murdering children way too quickly, for example.
Anakin's dialog was terrible as well. His drive was that he would stop at literally nothing to save Padme. So while I can give a pass to his desire to fight Obi Wan at the end, I do not buy for one second that he would have force choked Padme the way he did. Blinded by dark side ambition or not.
Bad pacing, bad writing decisions. Anakin wasn't believable.
The best element of the movie was Ewan's Obi Wan, as always.
I disagree. I watched the prequels dozens of times and I still do see how Vader gets to where he is in the OT from that little kid.
It's vaguely hinted at in episode 2 then barrels towards it in Ep 3 like runaway freight train teleporting every ten seconds until it leaps dimensions just before its destination.
The prequ Los had ONE job and it pussy-footed around it for two and half movies.
Here's the kicker... can you imagine ANY of the lines uttered by Anakin in all of the prequels that would even be remotely in character if said by James Earl Jones coming from the Vader suit?
"From my point of view, the Rebels are evil!"
"I wish I could just wish up the stolen data tapes. BUt I can't".
Point in note: they had to change the originals to make it seem like it fit better.
The pacing in AoTC is so atrocious I was shocked to learn it has a similar run time to TPM.
No. It starts and I have no idea who's who and why they're fighting and it's just a fucking mess. Then they get onto the ship and it gets even worse, who is General Grievous? What is the point in this character?
KeyBladerXIII
Member
I dunno, why the hell is a star destroyer chasing a small ship through space? They explain it in the opening crawl.
Thank you.
The opening of ROTS feels so incredibly hollow to me because the entire fucking war happened off screen thus we have no real investment into the magnitude of this fight. And then we go down to the surface of Coruscant and the entire planet seems like it's barely been affected by the war at all and is mostly unchanged from Phanton Menace.
god this fight is fucking awful
Ha you're right, been so long I forgot about the opening crawl explaining it. Still doesn't explain General Grievous at all or his point in the movie.
So these heroes on both sides... who are these heroes on the Empires side exactly?
It'd all make sense if everyone have watched the Clone Wars kids show I guess... such wasted potential skipping out all of the war between episode 2 and 3. It would have been great character building between Obi Wan and Anakin but instead we get some passing comments about the war and that's that.
The worst thing is Padme dying between ROTS and ANH is heartbreaking - just have her go into exile.
Waddle Dee
Member
You'd have to have a fucking brain aneurysm in order to think the prequels aren't objectively awful films.
You can like them as much as you want, but that doesn't make them not-shit. I unironically enjoy Punisher War zone but I'd never call that a good film. Trying to rewrite history and pretend the prequels were good is one of the dumbest things happening in the Star Wars fandom.
You can like them as much as you want, but that doesn't make them not-shit. I unironically enjoy Punisher War zone but I'd never call that a good film. Trying to rewrite history and pretend the prequels were good is one of the dumbest things happening in the Star Wars fandom.
Neff
Member
The worst of the prequels but still a damn good film all said and done, and of course way better than TFA.
You can view the separatists as good guys too if you consider what the Republic was becoming.
You can view the separatists as good guys too if you consider what the Republic was becoming.
Or have Obi-Wan say "Hey we need to split these kids up. You need to choose who to keep with you, because if these kids are at all force sensitive, it may make it easier for Vader, or worse yet, Palpatine, to sense them and find them." You can't tell me that's not true considering all the other bullshit the force is capable of, but atleast Padme isn't fucking dying of heartbreak...
Then Bail goes "Hey you can hide on my planet".
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
After the incredibly long list of detailed reasons ITT in this thread about how it literally fails on all fronts as a film how could you possibly attempt to make this statement unironically?
Vader has some pretty dramatic dialogue tendencies to that are in line with angry Anakin's way of talking, actually.
"If you are not with me....then you are my enemy"
Not a great line. But if it were delivered with actual gravitas and menace, nobody would bat an eye.
Or the weird moment in ROTJ where Leia starts talking about her memories of her real mother...
The one she knew for 10 seconds when she was a newborn.
This is an excellent point. I remember being hyped for Grievous because of how much of a badass he was in the TV show. The first time we meet him he kills like 10 Jedi in a matter of minutes. I remember that episode striking a distinct chord with me, that Star Wars could be horror if it wanted.
The Grievous we got in live action could have never lived up to the precedent set by the show.
Man, the PT in general is just a bunch of wasted potential. There's an incredibly compelling story to be told of the downfall of a great man with the backdrop of the downfall of the Republic he serves. Goddamn it Lucas.
Astral Dog
Member
Never!!!
Neff
Member
Because it's still a strong movie full of great scenes and truths despite its incidental failings and because I'm not one to succumb to hyperbole.
Would have been interesting to see Lucas take Star Wars to the place he took Indy in Temple of Doom.
I say without hyperbole that I am shocked by the sheer incompetence of every prequel movie including ROTS. It's the least terrible, but it's still so bad it's almost impossible to believe.
I'm really sad we never got cartoon Grievous in Episode 3. Grievous being a super Terminator who makes Jedi shit their paints was awesome.
Great scenes...?
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