It's not about bad dreams and being tricked into being a puppet. That's an unfair oversimplification. It's about a tragically insecure but highly talented young man who is unable to cope with loss and his attachments to the people he cares about.
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Is it time to accept Revenge of the Sith as "one of the good" SW films? SPOILERS
- Thread starter enigmatic_alex44
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It's not about bad dreams and being tricked into being a puppet. That's an unfair oversimplification. It's about a tragically insecure but highly talented young man who is unable to cope with loss and his attachments to the people he cares about.
Forerunner
Member
Best Star Wars gif.
Right but thats just what modern blockbuster filmmaking is. Its not a critique in the same way Star Wars critiques the military complex
Obviously its a good thing to have a diverse cast but just like before TFA is about the plucky little guys taking on a seemingly invincible monster
EatinOlives
Member
The TFA haters really need to go back and watch ANH. It's a very simple story told well with likeable characters. TFA succeeded in going back to those roots and doing it well, simple story told well with likeable characters.
Part of why Lucas fucked up with the prequels is that they were convoluted messes with near incomprehensible plot beats. But they've been part of Star Wars for so long that some have more than gotten used to the idea of a convoluted plot, so along comes TFA and they think it's "too simple".
The only positive thing I can say about ROTS is that it spawned the infinitely more entertaining Backstroke of the West
Nemesis121
Member
The second trilogy is pure and utter shit.....Lucas knew he created dog shit reason he sold it..
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
This must be what love is.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I'm not alone in thinking he was obviously being sarcastically self-deprecating, right? Even as a kid I was like yeah right Obi-Wan, even you know you're full of shit.
RotS is the most entertaining of the prequels but I think TPM is still better in terms of its narrative.
The core of RotS is Anakin's turn to the dark side. It's sloppy and abrupt since that internal conflict never amounts to more than him complaining about the Jedi holding him back in one scene then apologizing to Obi-Wan in the next. Then Palpatine comes along with an ambiguous story about someone who could cheat death.
TPM certainly has its flaws. The blockade and politics aspects aren't exactly thrilling and the third act is a bit of a mess with four concurrent action setpieces, but overall it feels like the film flows a little more smoothly.
I wouldn't classify any of the prequels as good movies but the weak dialogue, character development, and plotting are more apparent in RotS. There isn't a big gap between it and TPM but I give the edge to TPM. AotC is just forgettable.
The core of RotS is Anakin's turn to the dark side. It's sloppy and abrupt since that internal conflict never amounts to more than him complaining about the Jedi holding him back in one scene then apologizing to Obi-Wan in the next. Then Palpatine comes along with an ambiguous story about someone who could cheat death.
TPM certainly has its flaws. The blockade and politics aspects aren't exactly thrilling and the third act is a bit of a mess with four concurrent action setpieces, but overall it feels like the film flows a little more smoothly.
I wouldn't classify any of the prequels as good movies but the weak dialogue, character development, and plotting are more apparent in RotS. There isn't a big gap between it and TPM but I give the edge to TPM. AotC is just forgettable.
Ristifer
Member
As someone who enjoys RotS on some levels, I still think it's a piece of shit.
It's fun, but it isn't well made, the plot is absolutely atrocious and non-sensical (which is pretty baffling, considering the foundation Lucas set up for himself), and it has one of the worst romances in motion picture history. Anakin and Padmé may as well have been two cousins fucking.
Out of the entire prequel trilogy that needed to tell Anakin's fate in choosing the dark side of the Force, it fails miserably in every single facet. It's not even close to being believable. As a teenager, I was able to overlook these things. But today? I'm beyond disappointed that a trilogy of films couldn't deliver the story it needed to.
So, no, it deserves its place among the other prequels. TFA may take some beats from ANH and the OT, but it sure as hell can continue along a much better path if they don't fuck it up. The PT is already done and doesn't have a chance to redeem itself.
The fact that people tend to adore the Plagueis conversation scene the most speaks volumes about how bad RotS really is. It just doesn't deliver.
It's fun, but it isn't well made, the plot is absolutely atrocious and non-sensical (which is pretty baffling, considering the foundation Lucas set up for himself), and it has one of the worst romances in motion picture history. Anakin and Padmé may as well have been two cousins fucking.
Out of the entire prequel trilogy that needed to tell Anakin's fate in choosing the dark side of the Force, it fails miserably in every single facet. It's not even close to being believable. As a teenager, I was able to overlook these things. But today? I'm beyond disappointed that a trilogy of films couldn't deliver the story it needed to.
So, no, it deserves its place among the other prequels. TFA may take some beats from ANH and the OT, but it sure as hell can continue along a much better path if they don't fuck it up. The PT is already done and doesn't have a chance to redeem itself.
The fact that people tend to adore the Plagueis conversation scene the most speaks volumes about how bad RotS really is. It just doesn't deliver.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The film does a horrible job at making us care because it presents these thing as literally bad dreams and being tricked into being a puppet.
"In your anger, you killed your wife."
"Hmm, that's not how I remember it since that was only a few hours ago but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
"Hi Anakin, did you ever hear the tale of this extremely powerful sith lord?"
"Why...do you know about this but ok let's listen."
Obi-Wan's schtick by the end of the prequels is near constant over confidence so I don't think he was being sarcastic. At least with the CW tv show his statement makes sense as he had done some cool shit, like fighting both Darth Maul and his brother at the same time and coming out on top, constantly wrecking Ventress, and struggling less with Dooku than Anakin due to being calm and collected but those things are written in hindsight.
It's a fucking awful film, please just stop it. It cannot be redeemed. Just because we see stuff we've always wanted to see like Obi Wan versus Anakin, doesn't mean it was actually done well or was worth seeing. It's literally like kindergarten versus a film like Empire which has a Masters degree and multiple published papers... it's atrociously badly written, and just as awfully acted. Obi Wans lines after he's struck Anakin down is about the only redeeming part of the entire movie.
Way too much CGI. Grievous. Padme being the most pointless character ever who has retreated into a strange helpless maiden kind of role where all logic and reason has left her with a weird kind of Stockholm syndrome LOVE for her creepy ass boyfriend. Urgh, I'm sorry the film is terrible. Cool fight scenes and "big things" happening does not make it a good movie. No soul, or class anywhere to be seen, just a spunk load of crap.
Way too much CGI. Grievous. Padme being the most pointless character ever who has retreated into a strange helpless maiden kind of role where all logic and reason has left her with a weird kind of Stockholm syndrome LOVE for her creepy ass boyfriend. Urgh, I'm sorry the film is terrible. Cool fight scenes and "big things" happening does not make it a good movie. No soul, or class anywhere to be seen, just a spunk load of crap.
Crayon
Member
Red Letter Media review of a film before you saw it? That's a good way to hate it.
Not quite. I was never going to see it, because I saw the first two at release. However, the rlm reviews were quite good so I watched them all.
It's alright, but it's a highly flawed movie with some especially poor editing and writing. I can't really deny any of the criticisms. But....idk, I felt like it actually did a decent job of being a prequel to ANH, and it has its moments. Some of the setpieces are cool.
I think the idea of it being better than ROTJ or TFA is kind of blasphemous though. I guess I can see it but eh.
Episodes 1 and 2 are pretty garbage though, and I DO think 3 is a noticeable improvement on both.
I think the idea of it being better than ROTJ or TFA is kind of blasphemous though. I guess I can see it but eh.
Episodes 1 and 2 are pretty garbage though, and I DO think 3 is a noticeable improvement on both.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Huh? The diversity in TFA isn't a normal blockbuster thing at all, both in the casual diversity (just the number of random nonwhite extras) or the fact that none of its three leads were white men and none of them were big name actors like a Will Smith to make up for that. The whole "white fascists yearning for a time when they were in power" isn't exactly a common trope either.
Glass Rebel
Member
Only Sith's deal in absolutes but I've yet to meet one.
lightskintwin
Banned
Not's overlapping circle graphs are hilarious.
We had three 2+ hour long movies and somehow they rushed Anakins path to the darkside.
Like I know he killed sand people in ep 2 but the whole thing felt so very rushed and not satisfying at all.
Then again I haven't watched the OT in ages. Even as a kid who was more in love with star wars marketing I fell asleep during ep 2 and only remember the sand people killing and last battle and only remember a few scenes of EP 3.
I remember a lot more of Ep 1 for what its worth.
Like I know he killed sand people in ep 2 but the whole thing felt so very rushed and not satisfying at all.
Then again I haven't watched the OT in ages. Even as a kid who was more in love with star wars marketing I fell asleep during ep 2 and only remember the sand people killing and last battle and only remember a few scenes of EP 3.
I remember a lot more of Ep 1 for what its worth.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's literally not.
How do people keep coming to this conclusion? I mean, if you personally like and enjoy the movie, that's fine, but that's not a criteria for a movie being good. I like plenty of movies that are objectively trash: Ace Ventura, Independence Day, The Mummy; but I don't go around extolling their virtues, no more than cheap booze or junk food. ROTS, by every single measure and criteria which the quality of a movie can be judged, was simply terrible. Terrible dialogue, non-sensical plot, distractingly obnoxious special effects, sophomoric acting, etc... Other than Palpatine, none of the characters actions made any sense or had sufficient motivation. It was a goddamn mess. Again, you can personally love it, just like I personally love bottom shelf bourbon, but that doesn't make it any less terrible.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
God no it's so fucking bad
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
I have it 3rd behind: Empire and Hope.
5,4,3,7,6,1,2
Perfect movie it is not but I love it for what it is. It is a better Star Wars movie than The Force Awakens** and it always makes me want to watch the other movies in the series which is why I find it such an attractive film to watch.
**
5,4,3,7,6,1,2
Perfect movie it is not but I love it for what it is. It is a better Star Wars movie than The Force Awakens** and it always makes me want to watch the other movies in the series which is why I find it such an attractive film to watch.
**
comparative to the expected narrative of the material. Like how The Dark Knight is a better over all film than Batman Begins but is a worse Batman movie.
It's a scheme that appeals directly to his deep insecurities about not being able to control outcomes. And Anakin viewed Palpatine like a father figure. Of course he was going to be taken by such a story. It's totally believable given his psychological makeup and his relationship to Palpatine as someone who appeals to filling that need
Ristifer
Member
Come on now. Ace Ventura is gold.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Revenge of the Sith is absolute garbage.
Lol @ people complaining about character assassination in TFA and giving ROTS a pass for ruining one of the greatest villains in America cinema.
Lol @ people complaining about character assassination in TFA and giving ROTS a pass for ruining one of the greatest villains in America cinema.
BibiMaghoo
Member
My only problem with TFA was it's relatively safe and bland story. My problems with ROTS are numerous. That being said it was easily the best of the prequels. I still can't believe he ruined the ending with that noooo shit. I cannot fathom how anyone thought that was good when writing, shooting or editing the film.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Why Anakin would view Palpatine as the father figure and not the dude who's literally a surrogate for a father figure who he's CONSTANTLY around is beyond me. The fact that he literally only asks one question about it is absolutely beyond me, it's poor writing man. Anakin being played like a fiddle isn't a poor premise in and of itself but holy shit the way they did it is beyond bad. Then there's the matter of his relationship with Padme in the first place not being believable in anyway shape or form in any sense of the word, so the entirety of his character conflict comes from a romance that no one buys because the dialogue and interactions are incredibly poorly written but also because the actors have no chemistry whatsoever.
biggersmaller
Banned
I refuse to accept this. We were all right to hate the prequels when released and the decade following. What the fuck happened that suddenly we all need to find reasons to appreciate these piles of shit? What happened to standards?
What should be the cornerstone of the franchise is a whiny bitch character with unearned feelings of desperation so extreme he butchers children and all his friends all in the name of "love" for Padme. It's the worst..:
...acting...
...special effects...
...and pacing this side of a syfy original.
The Force Awakens was unfortunately derivative of A New Hope, but it was otherwise a really good movie and I would take take it if "originality" means half the running time is incomprehensible light saber battles and the other half community theater actors reading a high school English class final.
What should be the cornerstone of the franchise is a whiny bitch character with unearned feelings of desperation so extreme he butchers children and all his friends all in the name of "love" for Padme. It's the worst..:
...acting...
...special effects...
...and pacing this side of a syfy original.
The Force Awakens was unfortunately derivative of A New Hope, but it was otherwise a really good movie and I would take take it if "originality" means half the running time is incomprehensible light saber battles and the other half community theater actors reading a high school English class final.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
What? When was that established?
Seriously this. I can forgive it, because it is what it is, but Darth Vader is one of cinematic history's greatest and most iconic villain. His downfall should have been a story of epicness and tragedy. The way it played out was such a farce.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Dude, you had me confused for a sec there.
Ristifer
Member
It wasn't.
Extra Sauce
Member
Nope.
Don't forget the part where four of them confront palpatine and stand there doing nothing while he dances around and kills them in slow motion
Duane Cunningham
Member
Hate it. My ranking is:
1. ANH=ESB
3. RotJ=TFA
5. TPM
6. AotC
7. RotS
1. ANH=ESB
3. RotJ=TFA
5. TPM
6. AotC
7. RotS
Killer Queen
Banned
I'd say 5>4>7>6>3>2>1 personally.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You guys don't get it, you see, at the very very very end of TPM Palpatine says he'll watch Anakin's career with great interest, and even though the two have no iterations in episode II, and if they do they're so quick I forgot, that one singular lines overrides the entire point of ObiWan.
I know, this is going to suck. Every season I have to rewatch those movies as well until they stop making them yearly.
There are A LOT of shitty things about this movie but that line from Count Dooku is absolutely not one of them.
I've watched the HAL edit's of all 3 and they make them slightly more watchable but they're all still well below the OT to me.
DragonKnight
Member
While there are definitely a few stinkers, this list is overboard IMO. Some pretty good to pefectly ones here in this list.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Real talk, every* lightsaber fight in the prequel trilogy is an elaborate over-choreographed dance routine that ends with one of the characters uncharacteristically dropping their guard and getting stabbed or dismembered.
"The choreograpy is so much better!" Cool, now rectify that with the blocking basically amounting to
"Anakin and Obi-Wan fight and then Obi-Wan wins"
Who the fuck cares?
The fights in the OT and TFA have far more tension as well as an arc. There are clear underdogs, characters getting tired, worn out, angry etc. The prequel fights are pretty much all characters fighting on even footing with perfect clarity until one of them suddenly wins.
This is more or less my ranking as well. I will openly admit to liking Empire more than ANH on most days, but occasionally, I sit back an marvel at the one that started it all. Without ANH, there is no ESB, and ANH is more of a standalone experience than any of the movies.
TFA is not perfect, but it's great. I don't really like how it is a mirror of ANH, but I atleast accept it had to be that way due to the prequels. They had to play it safe. Iw ill be super disappointed if VIII does something similar instead of its own thing.
I loved TPM back in the day, and yeah, it's kinda crappy, but it did have some actual star warsy moments. I don't hate Jar Jar as most do, and I'll agree Anakin is wooden, but I get what they were going for.
Eh, I'd probably put Revenge higher than AotC, simply because it has some decent eye candy. Anakin at least looks cool.
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