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[Michael F. Assbender]

I mean sure, if TPM only consisted of the 3-5 minutes of Obi Wan and Qui Gon fighting Darth Maul and you omit everything else which seems to be the mental pathway of everyone that feels this way.

I'll just repost my long ass opinion on the matter from a thread made a few months ago:

I'd put AOTC as the worst of the two for one simple reason: By the time it was made, Lucas should have known better.

With TPM, George Lucas had been out of the game for a while, so he can be (mostly) excused for giving us a movie starring a cartoon fish-rabbit with a head injury playing against a cardboard cutout of Liam Neeson with cotton balls taped to its face. He can even be forgiven for turning the Force into Space AIDS. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say he can be forgiven for giving us a Darth Vader portrayed as a clueless dipshit kid who shouts "Yippee!" and tries barrel rolls because that's a good trick.

With AOTC, Lucas knew better. He knew he was woefully under-equipped to write a serviceable script, and he knew his direction and use of CG had alienated a lot of Star Wars fans, but instead of handing duties over to someone else, he doubled down:

He (and his co-writer, to be fair) turned Darth Vader from a pants-wetting kid into a moody dipshit teen.

He replaced the cardboard cutout of Liam Neeson with the cardboard cutout of Ewan McGregor.

He decided to honor the fondness many fans had for the mysterious Boba Fett by removing all mystery about the character; instead turning him into a shitty clone of a shitty bounty hunter/assassin who lacks clear motivation and purpose.

He gave us "romantic" scenes with the same pacing, acting, dialog, and direction that one would expect from the pre-fuck part of a porno. If, during the infamous "coarse sand" scene between Darth Idiot and Queen Senator, a pizza delivery guy walked in and asked Padme if she's the one who ordered the large sausage, I don't think anyone would've batted an eye. We had all been brutalized into just accepting that the movie was terrible and that there was nothing we could do about it.

TLDR; Both movies are horrible, but AOTC had the benefit of seeing how poorly TPM was received and squandered its opportunity to course-correct. Which makes it the worst of the two, IMO.

And to quickly address the idea brought up by a couple people that TFA was worse than the prequels because it's a "retread," give me a break. It's better written, better acted, better directed, and better paced than the four Star Wars movies that came before it. That makes it a better movie.

Did it share some story beats with the first Star Wars? Sure, on a surface level. But it had to.

JJ Abrams and Co. weren't hired to reinvent the wheel. They were hired to undo the damage done by the prequels. They had to bring back the old Star Wars feeling while laying the groundwork for a whole new trilogy. Could certain factors have been more fleshed out? Sure. But that's why trilogies exist.

Disney bought the House of Star Wars with the plan to build it into a sprawling mansion. But they had to repair the damage done to the house by Hurricane George. The Abrams Repair Company was brought in to fix the place up. They were rebuilders, not remodelers. If Episode VIII doesn't deviate from the course, I'll understand the frustrations. But with Episode VII, the job was to rehang the drywall on a rickety frame.

All things considered, I'd say they did a pretty fucking impressive job.

 

[Timu]

I hope Disney remakes 1-3.

Remake them but keep the music and improve on every single thing, that would be cool.

 

[Avixph]

I hope Disney remakes 1-3.

Nope.

 

[Raptor]

This is why you're not getting anything for Christmas.

 

[Fancyarcher]

Phantom Menace has aged waaaay better than the other two prequels.

Can't say I entirely agree. TPM has some good elements to it, but it feels like it's the most childlish of the prequels, mind you I still prefer it to AOTC.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Nope.

Yeah, they disavowed them. The rule with TFA was 'dont be like the prequels'.

 

[Shmuppers]

Yes, Yes!!


No need to hide the fact that EP3 is the best Starwars movie of them all.

Hm

I don't agree. E3 has all the same artificial characters, the same sterile cinematography, and the same backwards plot as any of the other prequels.

I'm no rabid fan of the series, but it was sad to see what these movies became under Lucas' direction. Here's to hoping that Abrams can breathe some life back into the series

edit: I don't see what value there is in revisiting the prequels. They would have to be completely re-written.

 

[EchoChamber]

I believe revenge of the sith have very good scenes like order 66 but also have the romantic scenes...uhg

 

[Skellig Gra]

Parallels and exact story beats are not the same thing and a lot of that is just general tropes that weren't invented by ANH.

So you are saying that JJ Abrams was lying when he said they borrowed story beats from the OT so it would "feel familiar"?

 

[jroc74]

What's the worst line from REVENGE OF THE SITH?

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." -Obi-Wan

I think this is a good line. It has use IRL. Like that line from I, Robot:

My logic is undeniable. I thought it was something Spock said.

I liked RoTS. Always thought it was a decent movie.

 

[uncelestial]

The correct order, which I am shocked to not see posted yet, is:

5,4,6,7,3,1,2

 

[videohead]

I enjoy ROTS despite its various issues. I do not enjoy AOTC and Phantom Menace is disgustingly shit. Absolutely, positively Nothing redeemable in that outside of "Duel of the Fates".

You probably don't want to rewatch, but the scene where Darth Maul and Qui-Gon fight as they are trying to launch the spaceship is pretty good. I mean it's nothing special, but there is some tension.

 

[Killer Queen]

I'll just repost my long ass opinion on the matter from a thread made a few months ago:

Yeah outside of your feelings on TFA, I can't agree.

Because Lucas was out of the game for a while doesn't excuse the fact that TPM is a massive waste of time that doesn't progress the plot or lore in any way and simply shouldn't exist.

As for AOTC. The writing is terrible but it does give us:
A look at the political side of the Star Wars universe which was the best thing about these films and at least that advances the lore and backstory as to how things got where they are.

Despite how it was executed, the idea that Palpatine played both sides of the war to rise to power and create the empire is actually great, and the seeds for that are sewn in AOTC with the clone army and Dooku

Bobba Fett was always a shit character, he was someone that did fuck all across two movies only to get knocked into a pit by a blind man fuck him. At least Jango Fett was important and did something cool by donating his genetics to the clone army and having a cool fight with Obi Wan, already more than Bobba did in the original trilogy.

It gave Anakin a reason to be upset with his mother being captured and eventually dying. Yeah if that happened I'd be moody too.

All of these things add to the Star Wars world in some way and there are some pretty cool ideas here despite the poor script and visual shortcomings, which is far more than I can say for TPM.

So you are saying that JJ Abrams was lying when he said they borrowed story beats from the OT so it would "feel familiar"?

I've already stated at least twice that he does. But it's nowhere near the extent that some are claiming.
Does it borrow elements of ANH? Yes
Is the entire movie ANH 2.0? No, because it subverts many things taken from ANH and has enough original content for it to stand out on its own.
Did everything it borrows from ANH originally come from ANH? No

It's literally that simple.

 

[opoth]

So you are saying that JJ Abrams was lying when he said they borrowed story beats from the OT so it would "feel familiar"?

If Lucas had made a competent PT, an OT mixtape wouldn't have been necessary. It's a 2 hour mea culpa, now we can move on.

 

[Fancyarcher]

Honestly the movie (I guess the whole damn prequels) would have been 10x better if Hayden Christensen wasn't in it.

We desperately needed an Anakin that wasn't a shit actor.

I don't think a different actor playing Anakin probably would have made much of a different honestly. The script and Lucas not being much of an actors directors were the biggest problems at fault here.

 

[Branduil]

From my point of view, it's a bad movie.

 

[Skellig Gra]

If Lucas had made a competent PT, an OT mixtape wouldn't have been necessary. It's a 2 hour mea culpa, now we can move on.

Very true but let's not be disingenuous about what they were going for with TFA.

 

[Ekai]

Guess I'm a liar then. It's a terrible script. At least Lucas could worldbuild properly, not throw big events at the screen trying to ape ANH.
TFA is good direction, bad writing. Prequels are the opposite. Lucas needed an editor to keep him in check, but he had free reign.

The prequels had good writing? I didn't like it. It was rough and coarse and it got everywhere.

I'd say 5>4>7>6>3>2>1 personally.

Not that bad. Honestly 4 thru 7 are bit of a toss-up for me in terms of ranking. 1 thru 3 are pretty solidly in their spots. I mostly put 6 up there because little me liked it the most

 

[Vixdean]

I hope Disney remakes 1-3.

If by remake you mean strike them from the official canon.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Guess I'm a liar then. It's a terrible script. At least Lucas could worldbuild properly, not throw big events at the screen trying to ape ANH.
TFA is good direction, bad writing. Prequels are the opposite. Lucas needed an editor to keep him in check, but he had free reign.

I guess yes, if your idea of worldbuilding is doing irreparable damage to established characters and myths by taking away any sense of mystery that made them appealing in the first place... I can see where you're coming from.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

ONLY

adverb
1.
without others or anything further; alone; solely; exclusively:
This information is for your eyes only.


Worst line of dialogue in the Star Wars movies and I'm struggling to recall a worse one from any other movie.

I always thought so too, and I always thought it could have been totally fixed if Anakin would have just responded by pointing that out. If the next line was "Listen to yourself! Don't you hear how hypocritical that statement is?? THAT'S the Jedi way, always some aloof, judgmental platitude!"

 

[Trigonometrize.]

You probably don't want to rewatch, but the scene where Darth Maul and Qui-Gon fight as they are trying to launch the spaceship is pretty good. I mean it's nothing special, but there is some tension.

The scene is alright but it's weird how it just transitions to Qui-gon and Anakin running for no reason explained. It seems like footage of them spotting Maul and him starting to chase after them was cut or something. It always felt missing to me.

 

[Timu]

The correct order, which I am shocked to not see posted yet, is:

5,4,6,7,3,1,2

I agree 100% with this.

 

[Crayon]

The force awakens was at least an okay kids movie. I'm really surprised anyone thinks it could be worse than any of the prequels.

 

[Biske]

Now let's not get crazy here. TPM is better than AOTC, but so is being repeatedly stabbed in the testicles.

The lack of Jar Jar is reason enough for ROTS to be placed above TPM though.

They all have their problems, but Phantom Menace comes out on top cause it has the least, shitty shitty scenes. Over all its a fun little romp.


Once Anakin grows up and we get shit like this:

You really missed out on some gems.

Holy mother of god. I forgot just how terrible these movies are. Jesus christ. Who did he pay to write and act this shit? A troupe of lazy middle schoolers?

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Phantom Menace is fucking awful and by far the worst of all the movies. Anyone that says otherwise should be damned to an eternity with an imortal Jar Jar.

At least it had a coherent story and less excessive use of special effects.

The whole "Jar Jar makes it the worst" argument people always fall back on is ridiculous. I'll take Jar Jar over Teenage Anakin any day. Jar Jar sucks but he didnt retroactively ruin anything in the OT, and really not much did in PT aside from mediclorines. Almost every minute of Clones and Sith however just relentlessly destroys everything you love about the OT. Boba Fett, ruined, Vader, ruined, Palatine, ruined, Yoda, ruined. And yes, Obiwan too. The love for him as some shining jewel in the mud makes no sense to me at all. At best he was a piece of corn in a fat stinky shit. And that's just the character assassination. Dont even get me started on how fucked the politics and concept of war are in the PT . That mysterious clone war you heard about? It was over trade tarrifs, with droids being pretty much the only casualties.

 

[Vinc]

It's the watchable bad one. The other 2 prequels are completely unwatchable, especially AOTC.

 

[Catdaddy]

Had to check the calendar, thought it was April Fool's Day

 

[Monocle]

I'll just repost my long ass opinion on the matter from a thread made a few months ago:

Good post.

 

[Biske]

Damn you all, now I am going down the rabbit hole of shitty Anakin and Padme love scenes.


Like watching a train wreck, I cant stop:


Declaration of Love

 

[LegalEagleMike]

I had almost forgot about that piece of floating fruit, fucking hell.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

The correct order, which I am shocked to not see posted yet, is:

5,4,6,7,3,1,2

From my point of view, this is indeed the correct order.

AotC is personal least favorite film in the series. It has the worst dialogue and acting, especially when it comes to Anakin's romance with Padme.

"I don't like sand" might be unintentionally hilarious, but it's still bad.

"If you are suffering as much as I am, pls tell me"-Darth Vader

 

[Killer Queen]

At least it had a coherent story and less excessive use of special effects.

The whole "Jar Jar makes it the worst" argument people always fall back on is ridiculous. I'll take Jar Jar over Teenage Anakin any day. Jar Jar sucks but he didnt retroactively ruin anything in the OT, and really not much did in PT aside from mediclorines. Almost every minute of Clones and Sith however just relentlessly destroys everything you love about the OT. Boba Fett, ruined, Vader, ruined, Palatine, ruined, Yoda, ruined. And yes, Obiwan too. The love for him as some shining jewel in the mud makes no sense to me at all. At best he was a piece of corn in a fat stinky shit.

How can you ruin that which was already terrible? Anyway, I'm not going to write again as to why I think TPM is trash and AOTC is better, I've already posted my thoughts on each in this thread so I guess if you care you can read those.

 

[Timu]

I'll just repost my long ass opinion on the matter from a thread made a few months ago:

Agreed on pretty much everything, definitely when comparing TFA to the prequels.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

This is the definitive Anakin/Padme relationship video.

 

[Fancyarcher]

Return of the Jedi has the coolest lightsaber duel of the entire series though.

I wouldn't call it the best per-say, but it's certainly the most poignant of the lightsaber duels, at least to date. In general the last half of ROTJ really makes the film for me, that I can mostly forgive the film's flaws. Heck I like the first scene in Jabba's palace, pointless as it may be to others.

 

[thecosmicfly]

There's still maybe, maaaaybe a salvagable project from the prequel trilogy where I could see a really talented team of fan editors could come together and make an actual good prequel film. Take ROTS as the basis, re-order and re-edit scenes to cut out as much awful dialogue/one liners as humanly possible (less is more etc.) or fan redub some lines here and there, insert scenes from AOTC and maybe some from TPM to serve either as quick few second flashbacks to minute or two scenes to build up the backstory. Like, shit, stuff as small as just replacing Nute Gunray's racist ass accent with random alien gibberish would do wonders.

It's impossible to completely rid the prequel trilogy of the bad/cringy moments since a hell of a lot of them are tied to major story beats, but with enough finese and devotion I'm sure you could make a quality, properly flowing movie out of it, or at he very least get it on par with at least the original trilogy's lows (Yes, even the unspecialised editions have their bad moments. Potential incest arcs, ewoks, jobber Boba Fett, pick your posion).

 

[lightskintwin]

Annakin as a kid may be annoying but he's much more bearable than young adult Annakin.

 

[Timu]

Annakin as a kid may be annoying but he's much more bearable than young adult Annakin.

Yeah, Episode 2 Anakin may be worse than Episode 1 Anakin.

 

[Killer Queen]

Yeah, Episode 2 Anakin may be worse than Episode 1 Anakin.

AOTC is the best star wars film and best film in the last 60 years

Spoiler

See? I too can say outlandish things without any explanation.

 

[Biske]

Annakin as a kid may be annoying but he's much more bearable than young adult Annakin.

Rewatching all these scenes, you can only draw the conclusion that Anakin is a fucking creep and Padme is fucked up.

Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with this girl? She's getting charmed by this lunatic? Really?

Anakin Steals a Kiss


Maybe Lucas was going for the "older powerful lady taking advantage of a lunatic teen" and if so.. nailed it!

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Yeah, they disavowed them. The rule with TFA was 'dont be like the prequels'.

Who disavowed what now? I'm not sure this is an accurate statement like at all.

 

[Glass Rebel]

AOTC is the best star wars film and best film in the last 60 years

Spoiler

See? I too can say outlandish things without any explanation.

Yes but people won't laugh at Timu's post.

 

[Killer Queen]

Yes but people won't laugh at Timu's post.

Well if the spoiler tag wasn't obvious enough, I'll give you a hint and say that the post was sarcastic and doesn't reflect my true feelings on the film but rather that saying something without any explanation during a debate holds no weight.
Since I have to spell it out for you.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

3 > 1 > 2

TPM has annoying qualities and can be boring, but it at the very least feels the most like Star Wars. Our group of heroes going on an adventure across planets and getting their interactions? It was getting there. Compare it to the original with the death star vs. the fate of Naboo and it quickly falls apart, but there were things happening that may have kind sorta given you the impression you were watching a Star Wars movie.

AOTC still has those Star Wars hooks in the form of obvious parallels to Empire, but a lot of the ways in which it were presented made it feel like a completely different fantasy world. It doubled down on computer generated scenery and creatures it seems and threw hundreds of Jedi into an arena to fight robots. The third act of that movie is officially when the prequel trilogy detached itself from trying to feel like Star Wars when it realized it sucked to bad at trying to compare.

And then with ROTS, that is just Star Wars descending into madness. AOTC took off the life vest and ROTS jumped in... and completely drowned... but in the most entertaining of ways.

 

[Crayon]

Damn you all, now I am going down the rabbit hole of shitty Anakin and Padme love scenes.


Like watching a train wreck, I cant stop:


Declaration of Love

Holy mother have mercy.

 

[lightskintwin]

Rewatching all these scenes, you can only draw the conclusion that Anakin is a fucking creep and Padme is fucked up.

Seriously. What the fuck is wrong with this girl? She's getting charmed by this lunatic? Really?

Anakin Steals a Kiss


Maybe Lucas was going for the "older powerful lady taking advantage of a lunatic teen" and if so.. nailed it!

The prequels were the first films I ever saw Natalie Portman act, and I thought she was terrible actress that couldn't act. Come to find out it wasn't her but the terrible material and direction she was given.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Well if the spoiler tag wasn't obvious enough, I'll give you a hint and say that the post was sarcastic and doesn't reflect my true feelings on the film but rather that saying something without any explanation during a debate holds no weight.
Since I have to spell it out for you.

For what it's worth, people will also laugh at this post and your next lengthy post overexplaining things.

 

[Killer Queen]

For what it's worth, people will also laugh at this post and your next lengthy post overexplaining things.

¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

The correct order, which I am shocked to not see posted yet, is:

5,4,6,7,3,1,2

My order would be

5>6>7>4>1>2>3