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[KojiKnight]

But is it wrong to ask if it's based off biology?

Biologically there are two genders (Well, three with the physical effects of intersex), whilst you can identify as several, so my question would be, is it offensive if you are asking the question based upon biology rather than psychology/social/cultural differences?

I'd assume Pokémon's target audience comes into play more here too, as it's less of an issue than with older players.

I suppose the simplest way would be to just have a more full character creator and forgo the question altogether.

My question would be, if TPC is asking purely from a biological stand point... why the hell do they care what's in my pants?

Games that are asking about your gender aren't doing so because the contents of your pants matter to the story or gameplay.,, they are asking you based on your preferences to how your character is portrayed.

Honestly, the second option is the only realistic option to be inclusive. Don't even ask.

 

[ZServ]

also, neither do you become incapable of playing Pokemon because someone else can pick "neither".

it's not a zero sum game, just because you don't feel like it's a "win / win" for everyone, it doesn't mean anyone would suffer if another option were to be included. To whose experience would it be detrimental?

I'm not arguing that it's detrimental. If it exists, I don't really care. As you said, it doesn't impact me in any way, whatsoever. I'm arguing whether or not it's worth doing. Let's say that 1 out of every 200 people is.. gender neutral? Gender fluid? Let's go with the wording, "gender atypical." 1/200 is gender atypical, then out of 1,000,000 people, only 5,000 people on average would even be impacted by that option. That means that dev time went into an option that 995,000 out of 1 mill people don't even pay attention to. In a perfect world, everyone gets what they want. In reality, anything that small is cut in a heartbeat, because it's irrelevant. Hell, Blizzard only made LFR for World of Warcraft because only 10% of their player base saw raid content, even less were progressing. Even less made it the full nine yards.

It's important to be as inclusive as possible, while also being as reasonable as possible. Like it or not, the vast majority of people are perfectly fine with where they lie on a.. gender.. scale? It's part of self discovery, that everyone goes through. There's always been masculine women, and effeminate men. There's nothing wrong with that. I guess it comes down to me being ignorant. I believe that gender fluidity is a thing, but perhaps I misunderstand it. I don't see an issue with a person with a penis being called he/him, and a person with a vagina being called she/her. If they feel like they're in the wrong body, and transitioning, good for them, cool, I'll absolutely call you by your preferred.. "sexual pronoun?" I can't say gender pronoun, because gender is apparently not he/she, but rather a social construct. I don't assign pronouns based on gender. It's based on what parts you have/want to have. I just literally cannot understand how someone is gender neutral. Because he/she isn't meant to be some sort of remark that defines who someone is internally, but rather externally. From my understanding, the point of transitioning is so that you're externally the person that you are internally.

Maybe I'm just fucking ignorant, I don't understand this at all. If gender is a social construct, then it doesn't exist, and you can't be gender neutral, because gender doesn't exist. In which case, you're defined by your genitals. So, males get he/him, females get her/she. What am I missing here? I'd legitimately like to understand.

 

[GeordieMark]

Because Pokemon is only for children. Funny thing is kids would probably be more accepting of this. It's a bunch of adults holding conservative ideals and stances that are in this thread criticizing the idea of extra options.

Kids wouldn't care one bit. Kids have imaginations to cover stuff like this.

 

[RocknRola]

I don't feel strongly either way, as I always felt the character in Pokemon games wasn't really focal the story or the actual gameplay.

I'm okay with more options, okay with less options, okay with whatever the majority want in this particular case really.

 

[Salty Rice]

Yes but the professor asks what are you not what you would like to play as.

Why is everybody on Gaf concerned what the Professor thinks what you are?

Maybe you are lying?

Screw the Professor.

 

[groansey]

Here's something I'm not understanding.

If biological gender, sexuality and gender constructs are separate, which they clearly are, and gender fluidity etc. refers specifically to gender constructs and not identifiying with either gender ie. there is nothing inherently feminine about long hair, make-up, dresses, nothing inherently masculine about short hair, suits and certain behaviours/ hobbies etc. these are cultural traits that evolved over time, like fashion, for a multitude of reasons... then being gender fluid or gender neutral or non-associative, is as meaningless as adhering to those constructs.

Therefore I don't think it's reasonable to expect society to formally recognise whatever superficial gender signifiers an individual chooses as there own distinct category of gender, because it's an act of individual expression and the permutations are endless.

 

[Doctor Avatar]

I guess the question is at what point does representation become "good enough".

Giving options for biological sexual appearance and skin tone will represent 99.99% of the population.

At what point are things acceptable, and no longer worthy of criticism?

Many people identify with niche sexual orientations and genders, to the point where it would be basically impossible to ever represent everyone. Should niche X continually be offended that they aren't represented, despite being a statistically infinitesimally small portion of the population? Should people, as is more often than not the case, be offended despite the fact they are not part of niche X and on behalf of niche X?

And what about people with physical disabilities, mental disabilities or other factors that are completely unrepresented in mainstream media, including video games?

There will always be some group that isn't represented, being offended by lack of representation beyond the reasonable majority of the population is, IMO, an exercise in futility. And covering 99.99% of the population as Pokémon does is a very reasonable majority. In the end we are all individuals and will never be truly represented in video games. Certain aspects of us may and may not be represented, but self identification is about a whole lot more than who you're attracted to or what you think of your genitalia. I often find these discussions surprisingly reductive and overly fixated with putting people in boxes and labelling them, despite the entire ethos of the discussion being about not doing so.

 

[mrklaw]

My question would be, if TPC is asking purely from a biological stand point... why the hell do they care what's in my pants?

Games that are asking about your gender aren't doing so because the contents of your pants matter to the story or gameplay.,, they are asking you based on your preferences to how your character is portrayed.

Yeah - they're asking in a way designed to keep you in the game world, rather than putting up a semi-artificial character creation screen at the start.

I wonder if there is a better way to do that? Maybe you could just get out of bed in the morning - its dark so only a sexless silhouette is visible..and then you head to the wardrobe to pick your outfit to wear, which leads into a similar character select view?

Or just screw it and let you have a proper character creation section. Heck, blow it up into a full blown wardrobe/accessories thing - you could trade hats/scarves/clothes etc. As the graphics get better, you spend a lot of time looking at your character so why not take advantage of it, especially in a game that has a big community around it?

 

[KojiKnight]

Maybe I'm just fucking ignorant, I don't understand this at all. If gender is a social construct, then it doesn't exist, and you can't be gender neutral, because gender doesn't exist. In which case, you're defined by your genitals. So, males get he/him, females get her/she. What am I missing here? I'd legitimately like to understand.

The problem with saying things like 'gender is a social construct and thus it doesn't really exist' is that it denies the people who are actually really and truly affected by it.

 

[Desperado]

As someone who has never felt comfortable or safe enough to disclose their inner gender identification outside the confines of a confidential setting, I just want everyone to know that I'm not outraged at Nintendo, Game Freak, or anyone for that matter, for not including a non-binary choice of character identification and representation for players who are aligned in that way. I understand that people see gender defined in terms of male or female - even if you are transgender, you still are either a male or female transgender person, even if tragically, a large majority won't respect that identification. I even understand that the concept of other genders seems alien or fake to most people.

What I'll tell you isn't fake: the disgust, embarrassment, self-loathing, and general dysphoria I feel when I see myself in the mirror. The fear of having my gender identification exposed when I'm forced to participate in gender-typical activities as I struggle to maintain the facade. The utter and crushing loneliness I feel day in and day out because I cannot express my feelings outwardly and identify freely. Why should I fear, why should I feel lonely? Because, just as stated in this thread, I, and others like me, are considered by the general populace to be "attention whores", "crazy", and/or "broken".

I didn't want to ever "come out" publicly, let alone on a game forum, let alone in a Pokemon thread. Yet, I'm done being such a minority that I'm not marginalized, I'm casually dismissed out of hand. I just want to be treated like a person. I just want a little respect, a little empathy. I'm sorry for the rant, but I assure you I'm not outraged - I'm just here.

No need to apologize – I truly appreciate being able to read this post from you. It is our collective responsibility to work towards a world that doesn't invalidate your or any other's personhood. We allies are imperfect and problematic but we will continue to strive to stand up for and with you.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I didn't want to ever "come out" publicly, let alone on a game forum, let alone in a Pokemon thread. Yet, I'm done being such a minority that I'm not marginalized, I'm casually dismissed out of hand. I just want to be treated like a person. I just want a little respect, a little empathy. I'm sorry for the rant, but I assure you I'm not outraged - I'm just here.

I grew up with no real gender identity but would always label myself as what others assigned me because I was ignorant of there even being another option. It wasn't until adulthood that I learned about being agender, which I've since then identified as since I still feel no association with either gender. It's incredibly annoying when you try to explain that and people either look at you funny or think you're being some eccentric. It's like no... I just don't really identify as a man or woman - not by society's standards or my own. So I definetely understand the embarassment associated with it because I've returned to the path of least resistance and will just accept what others see me as. I think it would have been nice to teach the idea growing up so both I could have been aware of such an option existing, as well as maybe help others becoming more accepting of it so I don't have to constantly concede to their ignorance.

Basically just letting you know you're not alone in feeling that way.

 

[.JayZii]

I often find these discussions surprisingly reductive and overly fixated with putting people in boxes and labelling them, despite the entire ethos of the discussion being about not doing so.

Great post overall, but this in particular was very well put.

 

[King of Custard]

As others have said an all-purpose character creator is the answer but to say that it's outdated is a bit of a stretch.

 

[MoonFrog]

Hmmm...the questions being put directly to the player go back to the original games, but I've never played as myself or taken it literally to be asking me my name, gender, etc. I just choose 'I'm going to play as a guy this time' or 'I'm going to play as a girl,' and ignore the import of the question.

That said, I guess if you are playing as yourself and role playing the question might be awkward, but character creators tend to be pretty binary about it all anyway, so I don't see how removing the question would change much.

I guess remove gender toggle and just line up all the presets?

 

[Rizzi]

Yes but the professor asks what are you not what you would like to play as.

Yes, but the professor is asking the character.

 

[.JayZii]

Hmmm...the questions being put directly to the player go back to the original games, but I've never played as myself or taken it literally to be asking me my name, gender, etc. I just chose 'I'm going to play as a guy this time' or 'I'm going to play as a girl,' and ignore the import of the question.

I just pick whatever character design I like more.

 

[vern]

Yes but the professor asks what are you not what you would like to play as.

He's not asking you in the real world.

 

[Captain Smoker]

As someone who has never felt comfortable or safe enough to disclose their inner gender identification outside the confines of a confidential setting, I just want everyone to know that I'm not outraged at Nintendo, Game Freak, or anyone for that matter, for not including a non-binary choice of character identification and representation for players who are aligned in that way. I understand that people see gender defined in terms of male or female - even if you are transgender, you still are either a male or female transgender person, even if tragically, a large majority won't respect that identification. I even understand that the concept of other genders seems alien or fake to most people.

What I'll tell you isn't fake: the disgust, embarrassment, self-loathing, and general dysphoria I feel when I see myself in the mirror. The fear of having my gender identification exposed when I'm forced to participate in gender-typical activities as I struggle to maintain the facade. The utter and crushing loneliness I feel day in and day out because I cannot express my feelings outwardly and identify freely. Why should I fear, why should I feel lonely? Because, just as stated in this thread, I, and others like me, are considered by the general populace to be "attention whores", "crazy", and/or "broken".

I didn't want to ever "come out" publicly, let alone on a game forum, let alone in a Pokemon thread. Yet, I'm done being such a minority that I'm not marginalized, I'm casually dismissed out of hand. I just want to be treated like a person. I just want a little respect, a little empathy. I'm sorry for the rant, but I assure you I'm not outraged - I'm just here.

Edit: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=221848711&postcount=452

 

[Jonneh3003]

As others have said they play as the female option despite being male themselves. Asking if you want to be a boy or a girl seems totally harmless to me.

 

[KojiKnight]

I can't help you more than that, because I'd lie if I said "I know" how you feel.

Someone very vulnerable opened up to share their feelings... Feelings that they have kept bottled for ages just so they can try and show people how little things like this can have a real impact... And your response was to take a negative tone... why?

As others have said they play as the female option despite being male themselves. Asking if you want to be a boy or a girl seems totally harmless to me.

And if they don't identify as female either?

Who does it harm to remove the question? Cause I can tell you who it can benefit.

 

[ZServ]

The problem with saying things like 'gender is a social construct and thus it doesn't really exist' is that it denies the people who are actually really and truly affected by it.

...So it isn't a social construct? Or it is?

Like, I'm getting different answers here. If gender doesn't exist because it's a social construct, then that actually, 100% means that gender fluidity can't exist, simply because there is no actual spectrum that has any value.

If it ISN'T a social construct, then what is gender? From my understanding, it's close to what this guy said:

Here's something I'm not understanding.

If biological gender, sexuality and gender constructs are separate, which they clearly are, and gender fluidity etc. refers specifically to gender constructs and not identifiying with either gender ie. there is nothing inherently feminine about long hair, make-up, dresses, nothing inherently masculine about short hair, suits etc. both are cultural traits that evolved over time, like fashion, for a multitude of reasons... then being gender fluid or gender neutral or non-associative, is as meaningless as adhering to those constructs.

Therefore I don't think it's reasonable to expect society to formally recognise whatever superficial gender signifiers an individual chooses as there own distinct category of gender, because it's an act of individual expression.

If it exists, then gender would be the norm of like, women wearing high heels, or boys playing with army men growing up, stuff like that. Or am I wrong here?

Great post overall, but this in particular was very well put.

Some of that comes from people wanting to voice their opinion about how the other side is wrong. Some of it comes from people wanting to learn to be more open minded about stuff they don't understand, and presenting their points of view. The point of which is to give the other party the ability to guide them down the proper trains of thought to seeing THEIR perspective.

 

[Salty Rice]

He's not asking you in the real world.

9 pages of people not understanding a fictional character is speaking with a fictional character he interacts with throughout the game.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Souls still asks male or female, iirc.

Yeah it does. And it's referring to biological sex.

TBQH I think we're getting to the far extreme of the discussion about inclusion here.

 

[GinoFelino]

First of all, it's very good to "come out", because it's the first step to feel better about yourself, because you acknowledge it. Be proud of it.

Second, stop whining. I know this sounds harsh, but it won't ever help you.

Confidence comes from the inside, you won't get it through respect from others, first of all you have to respect yourself, then it will radiate to the outside and you'll get the respect you desire.
No Pokemon representation or other media is going to solve your inner conflict and being outraged by this just enhances your inner conflict.


That said, I'd read into this topic if I were you (there is a lot of good stuff about the basic principles of self confidence and everything connected to it (part of it is self love, etc.)).


I can't help you more than that, because I'd lie if I said "I know" how you feel.

 

[Register]

"Is your character a boy or a girl?" avoids any 'offensive' nature, since it's not about the user anymore. Easy change.

 

[KojiKnight]

...So it isn't a social construct? Or it is?

I didn't say it wasn't a social construct. I said, the problem with saying "it's not real" is that it denies the very real effect it has on individuals.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

"Do you have a penis or a vagina?"
Bam, done.
...Though don't ask me why the professor would be asking that.

 

[Mask]

Not exactly offensive, but definitely dated and needs more options or a full character creator at the very least.. But Nintendo are pretty bad with LGBT inclusiveness, so it's gonna be a while before we'd see any changes..

 

[Captain Smoker]

Edit: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=221848711&postcount=452

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Is there a solution to this problem that is limited to an extra option or two besides boy or girl or does the whole thing have to be thrown out or what?

Rewording the question could probably work

 

[oneida]

Who does it harm to remove the question?

Yup.

always err on the side of inclusiveness.

 

[C4Lukins]

As someone who has never felt comfortable or safe enough to disclose their inner gender identification outside the confines of a confidential setting, I just want everyone to know that I'm not outraged at Nintendo, Game Freak, or anyone for that matter, for not including a non-binary choice of character identification and representation for players who are aligned in that way. I understand that people see gender defined in terms of male or female - even if you are transgender, you still are either a male or female transgender person, even if tragically, a large majority won't respect that identification. I even understand that the concept of other genders seems alien or fake to most people.

What I'll tell you isn't fake: the disgust, embarrassment, self-loathing, and general dysphoria I feel when I see myself in the mirror. The fear of having my gender identification exposed when I'm forced to participate in gender-typical activities as I struggle to maintain the facade. The utter and crushing loneliness I feel day in and day out because I cannot express my feelings outwardly and identify freely. Why should I fear, why should I feel lonely? Because, just as stated in this thread, I, and others like me, are considered by the general populace to be "attention whores", "crazy", and/or "broken".

I didn't want to ever "come out" publicly, let alone on a game forum, let alone in a Pokemon thread. Yet, I'm done being such a minority that I'm not marginalized, I'm casually dismissed out of hand. I just want to be treated like a person. I just want a little respect, a little empathy. I'm sorry for the rant, but I assure you I'm not outraged - I'm just here.

You are your own person. And you are among friends, and even the most "normal" person on this forum feels like an alien at times.

When I play as Nathan Drake, or Lara Croft, or Master Chief, I know I am not any of these characters. It is fantasy and escapism. Nobody sees them self as Kratos, but with video games you can pretend for a bit.

No need for the self loathing. You are among equally confused and insecure friends here.

 

[Fliesen]

I'm not arguing that it's detrimental. If it exists, I don't really care. As you said, it doesn't impact me in any way, whatsoever. I'm arguing whether or not it's worth doing. Let's say that 1 out of every 200 people is.. gender neutral? Gender fluid? Let's go with the wording, "gender atypical." 1/200 is gender atypical, then out of 1,000,000 people, only 5,000 people on average would even be impacted by that option. That means that dev time went into an option that 995,000 out of 1 mill people don't even pay attention to. In a perfect world, everyone gets what they want. In reality, anything that small is cut in a heartbeat, because it's irrelevant. Hell, Blizzard only made LFR for World of Warcraft because only 10% of their player base saw raid content, even less were progressing. Even less made it the full nine yards.

It's important to be as inclusive as possible, while also being as reasonable as possible. Like it or not, the vast majority of people are perfectly fine with where they lie on a.. gender.. scale? It's part of self discovery, that everyone goes through. There's always been masculine women, and effeminate men. There's nothing wrong with that. I guess it comes down to me being ignorant. I believe that gender fluidity is a thing, but perhaps I misunderstand it. I don't see an issue with a person with a penis being called he/him, and a person with a vagina being called she/her. If they feel like they're in the wrong body, and transitioning, good for them, cool, I'll absolutely call you by your preferred.. "sexual pronoun?" I can't say gender pronoun, because gender is apparently not he/she, but rather a social construct. I don't assign pronouns based on gender. It's based on what parts you have/want to have. I just literally cannot understand how someone is gender neutral. Because he/she isn't meant to be some sort of remark that defines who someone is internally, but rather externally. From my understanding, the point of transitioning is so that you're externally the person that you are internally.

Maybe I'm just fucking ignorant, I don't understand this at all. If gender is a social construct, then it doesn't exist, and you can't be gender neutral, because gender doesn't exist. In which case, you're defined by your genitals. So, males get he/him, females get her/she. What am I missing here? I'd legitimately like to understand.

see, here's where i disagree though. I don't agree with the fact that, even if 199/200 players aren't intersexual / gender fluid / gender neutral (simply 'non gender binary' ... 'neither'), those aren't affected by that option at all.

Just look at this thread. There's certainly plenty of people in this thread that, up until now, weren't even aware that beyond being trans- or cisgender, there's further gender identity issues in this world. - like intersexuality, like gender fluidity.
i do think that, even at an early age, seeing that innocuous hint (by means of a third option) that the world is a bit more complex than "boy" or "girl" is something very valuable. It helps keeps people open minded.

As to your last paragraph: It's not that easy. There's no undisputed numbers, but somewhere between 1 out of 100 to 1 out of 5000 babies are born with both genitalia - usually the parents then simply make the choice to have one set of genitalia removed. So even biologically, being 'neither' or 'both' is a far more frequent occurrence than some would believe.
And even gender is not that simplistic. There's gender identity, gender role, sexual preference. It's a big fucking matrix of combinations, and most of them along a spectrum. - it's complicated but also super exciting, because in a perfect world, everyone should be able to find their place without being forced into a corset of societal defaults / standards / expectations.

Again, none of these should be "shoved down anyone's throat" via a video game. But i don't consider a third gender option to be said 'shoving'

edit:

If it exists, then gender would be the norm of like, women wearing high heels, or boys playing with army men growing up, stuff like that. Or am I wrong here?

the former part is more about gender identity, the latter more about gender roles, really.
If a MTF transgender person wears high heels it's because they want to look 'feminine'. (representation of ones gender identity) If boys are expected to play with tanks while girls are expected to play with dolls, it's about gender roles.

I guess the question is at what point does representation become "good enough".

Giving options for biological sexual appearance and skin tone will represent 99.99% of the population.

At what point are things acceptable, and no longer worthy of criticism?

Many people identify with niche sexual orientations and genders, to the point where it would be basically impossible to ever represent everyone. Should niche X continually be offended that they aren't represented, despite being a statistically infinitesimally small portion of the population? Should people, as is more often than not the case, be offended despite the fact they are not part of niche X and on behalf of niche X?

see, just from a purely mathematical standpoint, i do believe that "boy or girl or neither" actually covers the entire spectrum.

In Australia (cmiiw) you can have your passport say "X" as your gender. I think that kinda covers most bases). It's not perfect because it puts plenty of different people into the same bucket, once again. - but it's a bucket that represents the acceptance of 'people outside the traditional binary choice'

edit: yup, Australia https://www.passports.gov.au/passportsexplained/theapplicationprocess/eligibilityoverview/Pages/changeofsexdoborpob.aspx

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Second, stop whining. I know this sounds harsh, but it won't ever help you and you shouldn't think it's realistic that the world is going to change for you anytime soon.

Been awhile since I've seen such grade A douchebaggery.

 

[Venfayth]

It is absolutely outdated. It's not a huge deal. Can be modernized super easily.

What's more offensive to me is the number of people who spring up to spout off their incredibly woke anti-pc views about gender in society today. Guess what, just because you don't think people who have problems fitting into a binary gender are real, or just because you think these people are some kind of freak or joke, doesn't mean their struggles are not 100% legitimate and sincere. Have some fucking respect. God this place disgusts me sometimes. Nintendo can take 5 seconds to change the text and make it more comfortable for everyone and you wouldn't even notice.

 

[KojiKnight]

Rewording the question could probably work

I think someone earlier had a pretty elegant solution.

Game opens up with the curtains closed in your bedroom and your mom telling you to wake up and get dressed. It's dark enough you only see a 'blank' silouette. You're then given an option to pick your character and clothes you start with.

You don't need to ask if you're male or female. You can pick how your character looks and the type of clothing you want your character to wear.

 

[.JayZii]

"Do you have a penis or a vagina?"
Bam, done.
...Though don't ask me why the professor would be asking that.

He/she/they is/are a professor/profesora, after all.

 

[oneida]

It is absolutely outdated. It's not a huge deal. Can be modernized super easily.

What's more offensive to me is the number of people who spring up to spout off their incredibly woke anti-pc views about gender in society today. Guess what, just because you don't think people who have problems fitting into a binary gender are real, or just because you think these people are some kind of freak or joke, doesn't mean their struggles are not 100% legitimate and sincere. Have some fucking respect. God this place disgusts me sometimes.

 

[GinoFelino]

It's not negative, it's realistic.

"I know how you feel" is a lie and I why should I lie to him?

Furthermore, this forum is a nice place and all, but the world outside is harsh.


It's awesome that Omega posted this because, as I already said, it's the first step.

He should be proud of himself and find a way to really feel this. Because I'd lie if I said that I can "understand" his exact feelings, I'm trying to give him some practical advice to achieve a better life, because the topic self confidence covers a lot of ground.

Feeling bad about yourself definitely not the right way.

And you think it's your place to school Omega on that?

What the hell are you thinking?

 

[ZServ]

Someone very vulnerable opened up to share their feelings... Feelings that they have kept bottled for ages just so they can try and show people how little things like this can have a real impact... And your response was to take a negative tone... why?

I didn't perceive that to be a negative tone, truthfully. Perhaps worded a bit bluntly, but not negative. To put it less bluntly:

You will never please everyone, not everyone is going to like you. We've all got people in our lives that we dislike for petty, stupid reasons. Whether it's the idiot driver in front of you, or the dumb ass DPS that blames his class for his low damage output (spoiler: you're trash bruh, that's why your numbers are bad). Some people will judge you for being white, black, gay, straight. Buck teeth. Straight teeth. You like Kanye. You like Taylor Swift.

People are always going to have bullshit, inane reasons to dislike you. It's because you aren't them. That's normal. We can't let that bother us, nor can we let how other people perceive us negatively impact us. The goal of equality is to ensure that you won't be treated differently. You will ALWAYS, ALWAYS be viewed differently. That will never change, not in 100, or 1,000, or 10 million years. If you weren't viewed differently, you'd be exactly like everyone else, and everything that made you who you are, would be of no value, no consequence, and absolutely worthless.

It's up to each and every one of us to find out who we are, who we want to be, and how we can strive towards becoming that person, every single day. You can ALWAYS be a better person, you'll never be the best person. Because of this, it's also important to learn to be happy with who you are. That is different for EVERYONE, and no one can tell you how to be you.

 

[Thud]

I just pick what looks best. They should at least add a third genderless option, because genderless pokemon exist as well.

 

[Scipio]

In this society where transgenders are not even remotely accepted. And especially in a country like Japan, I wouldn't call the lack of a third option outdated.

That being said. You can view the question as about sex not gender. And there are only two different things you can hide in your pants.

That being said: much ado 'bout nothing.

 

[chillybright]

He/she/they is/are a professor/profesora, after all.

 

[pinkurocket]

They should just let us choose a look not tied to gender and make all clothing fit all looks. They can keep the typical 'boy' and 'girl' looks but it doesn't have to be defined like that.

Even when you're choosing the character you're playing as, having to choose a defined gender is actually a bit outdated. It's still a part of our society to define many things by gender, so I understand many don't have an issue with it. Even kids in school still get separated with 'boys vs girls' for certain things, and most will be okay with that. However there will always be some kids that feel uncomfortable with that separation, and if a game can get past this with a simple solution then it's definitely something that should be done.

 

[Malrend]

while your post is mostly reasonable, the first 2 lines are a bit ... irregular. The choice is both a visual one (clothes, hairstyle) as well as a 'verbal'(?) one (pronouns used). Both are a matter of gender, not anatomical sex.

I can to some degree follow the argument for the 'verbal' choice.
I'd still argue that visual choice in terms of the general model you prefer is a choice of anatomical sex as they are simply stereotypical representations of a male and a female human in their early teens.

Sure in terms of clothing and hairstyles the game begins to become far more restrictive and leaning towards archaic social norms.
I like having male characters with decently long hair, which will likely mean that the 'default' male hairstyle will be the closest to long hair I'll get.. At least if X/Y is anything to go by.

 

[dock]

I agree it's outdated, but it's also really difficult to handle text for non-binary.

The main reason the game asks 'boy or girl' is because of pronouns, which becomes really difficult to localise with non-binary folk. It sorta works in English with they, but with languages with heavy use of genders (like German) a sentence often has to be reworked considerably if the gender is unknown.

Really, I wish games wouldn't lock you into your character's gender/appearance. I ended up restarting Pokemon XY after a few hours because I wanted to switch to a female avatar. I also really like cases where it's a little more flexible, like Animal Crossing being pretty cool with crossdressing (despite shade from the shopkeeper)

 

[Azoor]

I'm sorry, but Nintendo/Game freak never been the progressive of developers. I don't think they'll include any other genders anytime soon.

I don't think it's outdated to have only 2 genders, would it be awesome if they included more ? Sure it would! But I don't think they would anytime soon.

 

[nephilimdj]

Would it even be acceptable in Japan to have "newhalf" as a option? I assume NOA would just get treehouse to change the wording.

 

[ZServ]

see, here's where i disagree though. I don't agree with the fact that, even if 199/200 players aren't intersexual / gender fluid / gender neutral (simply 'non gender binary' ... 'neither'), those aren't affected by that option at all.

Just look at this thread. There's certainly plenty of people in this thread that, up until now, weren't even aware that beyond being trans- or cisgender, there's further gender identity issues in this world. - like intersexuality, like gender fluidity.
i do think that, even at an early age, seeing that innocuous hint (by means of a third option) that the world is a bit more complex than "boy" or "girl" is something very valuable. It helps keeps people open minded.

As to your last paragraph: It's not that easy. There's no undisputed numbers, but somewhere between 1 out of 100 to 1 out of 5000 babies are born with both genitalia - usually the parents then simply make the choice to have one set of genitalia removed. So even biologically, being 'neither' or 'both' is a far more frequent occurrence than some would believe.
And even gender is not that simplistic. There's gender identity, gender role, sexual preference. It's a big fucking matrix of combinations, and most of them along a spectrum. - it's complicated but also super exciting, because in a perfect world, everyone should be able to find their place without being forced into a corset of societal defaults / standards / expectations.

Again, none of these should be "shoved down anyone's throat" via a video game. But i don't consider a third gender option to be said 'shoving'

edit:


the former part is more about gender identity, the latter more about gender roles, really.
If a MTF transgender person wears high heels it's because they want to look 'feminine'. (representation of ones gender identity) If boys are expected to play with tanks while girls are expected to play with dolls, it's about gender roles.

As a counter to the point about children thinking it's even an option, I'd imagine that in a perfect world, you don't need a video game to show you that the option exists. The majority of people aren't colorblind, but those that are generally find out when they're children. Perhaps with more trust between a parent and child, stuff like gender identity would be just as easy to figure out.

The reality, though, is that even if you up the options to include everyone, you're still going to fall into a flowchart of stuff that is over my head, and not really worth my understanding to that degree. As I said above, people will always find reasons to judge you, or hate you. Social cliques will still exist, and through that, defaults will still exist. A perfect world is a nice idea, but an impossible one, as well-- people are by their very nature, imperfect.

Ultimately, I think the best answer lies somewhere in the middle. We can't deny people to be who they are, and we should strive to be as inclusive as possible. But the perfect world isn't going to happen, either, so we should strive to adjust where the line falls, and then re-evaluate as time passes. It's a process. Always has been, always will be.

 

[Par Score]

It's an incredibly easy thing to fix, and it already was "fixed" in Pokemon GO, so no reason not to do the same in the mainline games.

Some of the views being aired in this thread are incredibly, disappointingly regressive and needlessly hostile to an incredibly marginalised group. Have some empathy people.