Is there a concerted effort to tear down Naughty Dog

thelastword

Banned
I'm looking at several instances of people trying to diminish their work.

1. Naughty Dog is overrated. Yet the millions who play their games including the majority of critics absolutely love their games, should we pander to the minority who do not love their games and give their games 7 and 8's to appease such a crowd.

2. Naughty Dog Games are walking simulators, yet I've never played a game so many times with such heavy action gameplay scenarios or in LOU where I approach my enemies in different ways every time, using different strategies, and that could be said with the very first game in Drake's Fortune.

3. Naughty is overworking Staff. Yet no one was forced to work OT and if you did, there was appropriate compensation relative to time and half, doubletime pay and further bonuses if the game is successful, which most ND games have been. Of course no employer would say they do not want the best and hardest working people, sometimes people have to understand that the best movies, games and art pieces you see takes lots of work, being earnest, lots of blood and tears....Having the best products are not usually cakewalks and people work hard and lose sleep behind the scenes. Having the best games is not putting It in a "best games generator simulator".....

4. Naughty and their directors are trying to push this SJW way of thinking on me: No they are not, you are not forced to buy, you are not forced to let your kids play their games if you think they will turn lesbian or gay after a playthrough. As if such people don't exist right in front of their faces everyday. Yet we have no issues with our boys allowing the main characters in GTA to plow through fields of prostitutes, working for gangs and gunning down innocents at random, at least the people you mow down in LOU and UC are bad guys trying to kill you.... So lets stop the hypocrisy. Games are fantasy, they tell stories, you love them or hate them, you buy them or not.....I have no problem with GTA or UC games.....Let the artists do their thing, the number of people who love their games will be the ultimate decider, yet people hate even when the games they don't love do well, because the game they love is only liked by 5 people including themselves, so they sit back and concoct this smear campaign. Why are millions playing these ND games? We really need to stop the witch hunts over a dev's vision, and why he made the story the way he did. It's his game and he's telling it, if you are so pressed, go do yours if you think it will take the world by storm and is such a superior piece......That way your game can go against ND's and be compared on all levels......It's also why I never understood all the Vitriol sent David Cage's way, some people absolutely love his games and it's not a template of everything else that's available. People call games garbage when they don't do well, with told ya's, but they still hate when a game is quality and super successful, there's no middle ground it seems....
 
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Concerted by whom? I think there's plenty of people who're annoyed with ND's success, eagerly taking recent events as an opportunity to bash them. But some kind of coordinated attack? Naww. The leaks happened, and people who were down on ND probably watched/read them because they didn't give a shit anyway. I expect we'll get more varied opinions when the game launches, and hardcore fans get to comment on the game too.
 
Yes! It's very easy to see what's going on. Some have been waiting for any sign of weakness or something negative they can hang over Naughty Dog for years but TLOU Part II is going to do well in all areas: reviews, sales, awards, you name it
 
TLOU2 is probably my most anticipated game this gen, and I love every ND game I've played, but there is no conspiracy.

1.) every great thing is called overrated by some people at some point. It's all subjective. I don't see an overwhelming tide of "ND is overrated" comments, just normal variety of opinions

2.) everything gets called a walking simulator, it's become the most overused blanket "critique" of games.

3.) Crunch and overworked devs has been a theme of every big studio release for years now, not exclusive to ND at all

4.) social politics in gaming/television/movies is a hot topic everywhere lately, nothing exclusive to ND or TLOU. An Overwatch thread of any theme can't be posted without a social politics joke reply being put up within the first few minutes

So no. This is all normal. There's no concentrated Anti-ND agenda whatsoever
 
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From what i'm reading in most threads. A lot of people don't question Naughty Dog as a whole. Everyone knows they're wizards and have brought arguably the best games of current gen. The arguments about them making walking simulators are silly and should be ignored.

The problem mainly seems to be the politics in play because of massive influences by one of their execs. The outrage is mainly pointed at him and doesn't necessarily mean ND as a whole is bad.
 
Yes. We sit in our "Legion of Doom"-esque headquarters plotting our revenge against Naughty Dog as punishment for giving up on the Jak & Daxter series.

1. Naughty Dog is overrated.

I have always said this and will always say it, cinematic games are all style, no substance. Naughty dog games in particular are just stock third-person action cover-shooters that do nothing innovative or interesting.

Also 7 and 8 are great ratings, the fuck are you on about. lmao

2. Naughty Dog Games are walking simulators

Who said this?

Be specific.

They aren't walking simulators, and have never in my life seen anyone call them walking simulators.

3. Naughty is overworking Staff.

Are you really sure "crunchtime is good" is the hill you want to die on?

4. Naughty and their directors are trying to push this SJW way of thinking on me

"Push" isn't the right word, but Druckmann has an ideology that's pretty cancerous and that he says himself heavily influences his writing.

"Female characters with sex appeal are misogynistic and they can't be good role models" is a bad take no matter how you spin it. Though, it might explain why he wanted to make Abby look so unattractive.
 
In entertainment every studio/franchise/creator that's big will have a lot of haters. There's people who dislike Rockstar, or Kojima, or CDPR or Nintendo, etc.
Who cares, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and Naughty Dog is just the flavor of the month for online gaming outrage because they had a leak that many people disliked.

With that said, I completely disagree that they are at the top of their game.
I still find their work on graphics and animation amazing but to be honest they've gone from one of my favorite western devs from last gen to just an average one this gen. They went from introducing 2 new Ip's on Ps3 to just working on sequels, and the one major release they had this gen was a disappointing entry in the Uncharted franchise (Lost Legacy was better, but also smaller in scope).

Going into the Ps4 gen, seeing what ND was going to do next was one of the things that had me hyped the most about the system. Now moving into the Ps5 I'm way more interested in what Guerilla, Santa Monica and Insomniac are going to do (as far as First party Sony devs go). I still hope TLOU2 turn out fine though (haven't read the Leak) as it would be nice to be hyped about the studio again.
 
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Naughty Dog has been one of the top teams in the industry pretty much since 2009 so yeah any chance the haters get anything they can use against them they will. A lot of people can't stand just how well regarded they are.
 
Yes and no. Jealousy and fanboys drive one side of the backlash, anti identitarian sentiment the other.

Identity politics is not something to be praised, but in a character driven game, especially a fictional one it is not the same as the BF5 debacle. Nuance and tact are all important. Don't preach to the audience, you do you and let me work it out myself.
 
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It's a facet of something called 'Tall Poppy Syndrome'. You can find it everywhere, frankly. For example, when Titanic was the highest grossing film of all time sites like IGN attempted to organise readers to watch The Dark Knight multiple times in order to de-throne it. Anyone who sits at the top for long will eventually be attacked for no other reason than because they're still at the top. People love "underdog" stories - checkout Uncharted 2 and it's reception - but we're not terribly interested in "long-time critical darling makes yet another critical darling" stories. Combine this with ND's Neil Druckmann's outspoken criticism of facet's of video game culture, and adds up to a target on their back.
 
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...where I approach my enemies in different ways every time, using different strategies
I dont think we played the same games. Regardless of how you feel about it, ND games are undeniably linear, to the point it can get quite ridiculous.

Naughty is overworking Staff. Yet no one was forced to work OT and if you did, there was appropriate compensation
Thats not how crunch works. There are other people that rely on your work, and if you just leave at the normal time you could possibly delay the whole team. So, you might not be "technicaly" forced to work overtime, but you are in practice. Its just bad management, seriously, dont try to defend this
 
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I'm looking at several instances of people trying to diminish their work.

1. Naughty Dog is overrated. Yet the millions who play their games including the majority of critics absolutely love their games, should we pander to the minority who do not love their games and give their games 7 and 8's to appease such a crowd.

2. Naughty Dog Games are walking simulators, yet I've never played a game so many times with such heavy action gameplay scenarios or in LOU where I approach my enemies in different ways every time, using different strategies, and that could be said with the very first game in Drake's Fortune.

3. Naughty is overworking Staff. Yet no one was forced to work OT and if you did, there was appropriate compensation relative to time and half, doubletime pay and further bonuses if the game is successful, which most ND games have been. Of course no employer would say they do not want the best and hardest working people, sometimes people have to understand that the best movies, games and art pieces you see takes lots of work, being earnest, lots of blood and tears....Having the best products are not usually cakewalks and people work hard and lose sleep behind the scenes. Having the best games is not putting It in a "best games generator simulator".....

4. Naughty and their directors are trying to push this SJW way of thinking on me: No they are not, you are not forced to buy, you are not forced to let your kids play their games if you think they will turn lesbian or gay after a playthrough. As if such people don't exist right in front of their faces everyday. Yet we have no issues with our boys allowing the main characters in GTA to plow through fields of prostitutes, working for gangs and gunning down innocents at random, at least the people you mow down in LOU and UC are bad guys trying to kill you.... So lets stop the hypocrisy. Games are fantasy, they tell stories, you love them or hate them, you buy them or not.....I have no problem with GTA or UC games.....Let the artists do their thing, the number of people who love their games will be the ultimate decider, yet people hate even when the games they don't love do well, because the game they love is only liked by 5 people including themselves, so they sit back and concoct this smear campaign. Why are million solving these ND games? We really need to stop the witch hunts over a dev's vision, and why he made the story the way he did. It's his game and he's telling it, if you are so pressed, go do yours if you think it will take the world by storm and is such a superior piece......That way your game can go against ND's and be compared on all levels......It's also why I never understood all the Vitriol sent David Cage's way, some people absolutely love his games and it's not a template of everything else that's available. People call games garbage when they don't do well, with told ya's, but they still hate when a game is quality and super successful, there's no middle ground it seems....


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On a more serious note:
I loved Uncharted and TLOU was mind blowing. If you are thinking this is some "conspiracy to bring then down" you clearly don't know what happens in TLOU2.
I saw the latest trailer, I had the steelbook edition pre ordered and next to Cyberpunk it was my most anticipated game of the year.

I hate leaks more than anything, but that leaker is the hero that we needed.
 
People definitely make up that movie game shit about them. Just because there's cutscenes and it's not open world doesn't mean it doesn't have amazing gameplay. Anyone whose said that is either politicking or trying to diminish because they don't have the system or prefer another. As for the SJW stuff I dunno I haven't seen spoilers but I certainly don't mind a progressive message if its woven into a good story and the gameplay is still great.
 
Dont know, dont care. Going into TLOU2 blind. Ill make up my own damn mind as to how much i like or dislike the story.
Exactly this...I've liked every ND game for 2 generations now...not concerned I won't like this one

I think there is a generation of gamers that just don't understand the attraction of solid, single player, narrative driven stories. I don't shit on your Royale flavour of the week online only games...don't shit on mine.
 
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Here's the thing I keep being told by so many how great TLOU was, so I keep trying to get into it but it feels so much like an Uncharted game with zombies. Is that basically what this game/story amounts to?

The whole end of the world zombie apocalypse thing.....I've made moral concessions with things I considered stupid (zombies) and recently embraced the Walking Dead. TLOU feels like Uncharted: The Walking Dead. Am I right or does this game ever become something more?
 
In the past few years there has been a big backlash against so called movie games and ND is sort of the poster child for that even though I think they have great gameplay. TLOU MP would not be so popular and respected if they had bad gameplay. There are story driven games that treat gameplay as an afterthought but ND games are not amongst them. Add in the anti-sjw stuff and it has boiled over in the past few weeks.
 
They make good games.

They're worshipped like they invented gaming.
Well they have given us many GOTY games, pretty much all their games are 90+. Millions love their games. No they didn't invent gaming, but they sure have been a high tier contributor in the past decade or two….
tenor.gif


On a more serious note:
I loved Uncharted and TLOU was mind blowing. If you are thinking this is some "conspiracy to bring then down" you clearly don't know what happens in TLOU2.
I saw the latest trailer, I had the steelbook edition pre ordered and next to Cyberpunk it was my most anticipated game of the year.

I hate leaks more than anything, but that leaker is the hero that we needed.
So you went from a big fan of ND and it's games, even had the steelbook edition pre-ordered, but you saw a leak and right now you are so put off by the content, that you think you saved yourself from utter disappointed, cue in the "game" you are most excited for now...….Pretty convincing story tbh....

Just as an FYI. As an ND fan, LOU and UC fan. I have never watched any of these leaks that you speak of. I trust ND to deliver.....I make it a principal of not going on small snippets or blurry leaks of a game to decide what I think of my most anticipated games, especially those which I pay steelbook money for.....Just on principle...
 
When you're at the top everyone's gonna be gunning for you, I'd say yes. People and even companies are allowed to make mistakes, I don't know why certain gamers expect ND to be perfect.
 
Honestly.... is mostly console wars.

A new generation is coming, so most people just want to shit on the console that they dislike. A first party studio is just the perfect target.
 
The criticism is not related to console wars. Most of it comes from actual fans of ND work that are disappointed with the direction they are going. Especially with the behavior of Neil Druckmann.

I for one never cared about TLOU but I like Uncharted a lot. I can see why a lot of people are unhappy with the recent developments.
 
I'm looking at several instances of people trying to diminish their work.

1. Naughty Dog is overrated. Yet the millions who play their games including the majority of critics absolutely love their games, should we pander to the minority who do not love their games and give their games 7 and 8's to appease such a crowd.

2. Naughty Dog Games are walking simulators, yet I've never played a game so many times with such heavy action gameplay scenarios or in LOU where I approach my enemies in different ways every time, using different strategies, and that could be said with the very first game in Drake's Fortune.

3. Naughty is overworking Staff. Yet no one was forced to work OT and if you did, there was appropriate compensation relative to time and half, doubletime pay and further bonuses if the game is successful, which most ND games have been. Of course no employer would say they do not want the best and hardest working people, sometimes people have to understand that the best movies, games and art pieces you see takes lots of work, being earnest, lots of blood and tears....Having the best products are not usually cakewalks and people work hard and lose sleep behind the scenes. Having the best games is not putting It in a "best games generator simulator".....

4. Naughty and their directors are trying to push this SJW way of thinking on me: No they are not, you are not forced to buy, you are not forced to let your kids play their games if you think they will turn lesbian or gay after a playthrough. As if such people don't exist right in front of their faces everyday. Yet we have no issues with our boys allowing the main characters in GTA to plow through fields of prostitutes, working for gangs and gunning down innocents at random, at least the people you mow down in LOU and UC are bad guys trying to kill you.... So lets stop the hypocrisy. Games are fantasy, they tell stories, you love them or hate them, you buy them or not.....I have no problem with GTA or UC games.....Let the artists do their thing, the number of people who love their games will be the ultimate decider, yet people hate even when the games they don't love do well, because the game they love is only liked by 5 people including themselves, so they sit back and concoct this smear campaign. Why are million solving these ND games? We really need to stop the witch hunts over a dev's vision, and why he made the story the way he did. It's his game and he's telling it, if you are so pressed, go do yours if you think it will take the world by storm and is such a superior piece......That way your game can go against ND's and be compared on all levels......It's also why I never understood all the Vitriol sent David Cage's way, some people absolutely love his games and it's not a template of everything else that's available. People call games garbage when they don't do well, with told ya's, but they still hate when a game is quality and super successful, there's no middle ground it seems....

I don't know about #1, #2, #4 but you don't know what you are talking about with #3. Salaried employees don't get OT pay. Let's say they give you $200k/yr for just working. Typical hours is 40hr/weeks. Then you enter crunch time and it's 80hr/week for over a year. How much did you really make for the hours? $100k/yr @ 40hr/week - that's significantly less than the quoted 40hr/week = $200k/yr pay.

The issue is trying to survive 80hr/week for an extended long period of time while trying to take care of a family. It doesn't work. Divorces are filed and people quit after they get the bonus from the game. That's just the facts.
 
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In the past few years there has been a big backlash against so called movie games and ND is sort of the poster child for that even though I think they have great gameplay. TLOU MP would not be so popular and respected if they had bad gameplay. There are story driven games that treat gameplay as an afterthought but ND games are not amongst them. Add in the anti-sjw stuff and it has boiled over in the past few weeks.
Well that argument is built on a false narrative. So it's like saying Whintney Houston can't sing, why do people love her music....If there was one game that was built on a solid gameplay foundation, it was UC and LOU. Lot's of verticality and options in both UC and LOU and tbf, their gameplay systems was so good it's why their MP was also loved immensely.....

The thing about just saying movie games, is people will feel, that you can just watch it on youtube and lose nothing, yet we all know that is so wrong.....People are just hating because the story in ND games are well done and often praised by critics...….
 
Well they have given us many GOTY games, pretty much all their games are 90+. Millions love their games. No they didn't invent gaming, but they sure have been a high tier contributor in the past decade or two….

So you went from a big fan of ND and it's games, even had the steelbook edition pre-ordered, but you saw a leak and right now you are so put off by the content, that you think you saved yourself from utter disappointed, cue in the "game" you are most excited for now...….Pretty convincing story tbh....

Just as an FYI. As an ND fan, LOU and UC fan. I have never watched any of these leaks that you speak of. I trust ND to deliver.....I make it a principal of not going on small snippets or blurry leaks of a game to decide what I think of my most anticipated games, especially those which I pay steelbook money for.....Just on principle...

Sorry man, I really wish I was lying.

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To me, It's really that bad. It may not bother you (I doubt it though). I'm not asking you to see the spoilers, but there is a reason for the backlash and a decent one.
This game will go down in history and not for a good reason.
 
Well that argument is built on a false narrative. So it's like saying Whintney Houston can't sing, why do people love her music....If there was one game that was built on a solid gameplay foundation, it was UC and LOU. Lot's of verticality and options in both UC and LOU and tbf, their gameplay systems was so good it's why their MP was also loved immensely.....

The thing about just saying movie games, is people will feel, that you can just watch it on youtube and lose nothing, yet we all know that is so wrong.....People are just hating because the story in ND games are well done and often praised by critics...….
I fully agree with you but a narrative has formed over the past few years. I am not kidding when I say TLOU on grounded is one of the most intense video game experiences I have had.
 
Imagine having your head buried this far up your own ass. No, there is no conspiracy to bring down Naughty Dog because they're too successful. People are sick of the political agendas in video games. Cut the bullshit, craft a narrative with the primary goal of telling a good story rather than spreading your politics, and much of the criticism will magically vanish. It's not hard and the victimhood tactics are getting tiresome.
 
Hard pills to swallow

Naughty dog are not the same company that gave us great games like uncharted 2 and the First the last of Us
they have been coasting on sequels and remasters ever since...but they are not offering the same mind blowing experiences that those other games last gen gave us
they have veered from offering fun game-play experiences to long boring movie like sequences ...they look pretty as hell and are best in class for the art direction but the replay-ability is zero once you have done it once

Also..certain people on their staff need to have a chat with Cliffy B about trying to form your narrative around social justice politics as people are just sick of this political correct shit
that has infested gaming which is why its getting the backlash....people want to escape in their games and not have the same horrible gender/sexuality/political crap thats in real life forced into a game

If its a great story and fun to play the game will speak for itself
 
Honestly.... is mostly console wars.

A new generation is coming, so most people just want to shit on the console that they dislike. A first party studio is just the perfect target.
I agree. This is my feeling.

It's an easy platform to console war. Make no mistake that there are hordes of Xbox fans jumping in on the hate/smear as well. Its easy to hide behind anonymous accounts online.

Just look at PS5 related threads. If X developer speaks up about the SSD, the first page of that thread is trolled relentlessly from people who have no interest in the topic. I have no doubt the same is happening with Naughty Dog and anything related to The Last of Us 2 on social media platforms.

So IMO this 'hatred' is a mix of fanboys and genuine (upset) fans of the series and developer who don't like the direction the series is going in.
 
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They make good games.

They're worshipped like they invented gaming.

Exactly.

They are a decent studio who has had some hits and some misses, but they are by no means one of the "top tier" studios. TLOU is just a dime a dozen zombie survival story that has almost every narrative beat ripped straight out of better written, better paced sources (such as The Road). Its gameplay is the same simplistic third person shooter with a handful of arenas that offer very little in terms of player choice and mostly linear sections with one to two "right" paths to take with lots and lots of downtime inbetween. (Want to see great level design that offers numerous different ways to complete your objective? Go look at Thief, Deus Ex, Dishonored, or Hitman just to name a few - that is good level design. This isn't.)

Uncharted is just Indiana Jones and Tomb Raider. Fun, but not that well written (as it should be, the shlock is what makes it, IMO).

Jak 2 and 3 were... just GTA Clones with EDGE. SUPER EDGE.

And Crash was just a generic, but well executed (once you got past the first game) platformer.

Then again, this thread is made by one of the most ardent Sony fanboys on this site, so I am not too surprised at the false narrative attempted to be crafted here. Propped up by the pro SJW folks that have been plaguing the TLOU threads as of late.
 
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The last of Us 2 will be a great game but somebody needed to

1) Ensure their staff were treated fairly (i dont believe the PR line about the leak)
2) Make sure your PR doesn't attack or put the people who enjoy your games into a box

There is probably a bit of console war shit going on much how people attack Rare and 343 on the MS side but most of the backlash would be from their PR being focused on social justice politics........people are just sick of that shit
 
I'm looking at several instances of people trying to diminish their work.

1. Naughty Dog is overrated. Yet the millions who play their games including the majority of critics absolutely love their games, should we pander to the minority who do not love their games and give their games 7 and 8's to appease such a crowd.

2. Naughty Dog Games are walking simulators, yet I've never played a game so many times with such heavy action gameplay scenarios or in LOU where I approach my enemies in different ways every time, using different strategies, and that could be said with the very first game in Drake's Fortune.

3. Naughty is overworking Staff. Yet no one was forced to work OT and if you did, there was appropriate compensation relative to time and half, doubletime pay and further bonuses if the game is successful, which most ND games have been. Of course no employer would say they do not want the best and hardest working people, sometimes people have to understand that the best movies, games and art pieces you see takes lots of work, being earnest, lots of blood and tears....Having the best products are not usually cakewalks and people work hard and lose sleep behind the scenes. Having the best games is not putting It in a "best games generator simulator".....

4. Naughty and their directors are trying to push this SJW way of thinking on me: No they are not, you are not forced to buy, you are not forced to let your kids play their games if you think they will turn lesbian or gay after a playthrough. As if such people don't exist right in front of their faces everyday. Yet we have no issues with our boys allowing the main characters in GTA to plow through fields of prostitutes, working for gangs and gunning down innocents at random, at least the people you mow down in LOU and UC are bad guys trying to kill you.... So lets stop the hypocrisy. Games are fantasy, they tell stories, you love them or hate them, you buy them or not.....I have no problem with GTA or UC games.....Let the artists do their thing, the number of people who love their games will be the ultimate decider, yet people hate even when the games they don't love do well, because the game they love is only liked by 5 people including themselves, so they sit back and concoct this smear campaign. Why are million solving these ND games? We really need to stop the witch hunts over a dev's vision, and why he made the story the way he did. It's his game and he's telling it, if you are so pressed, go do yours if you think it will take the world by storm and is such a superior piece......That way your game can go against ND's and be compared on all levels......It's also why I never understood all the Vitriol sent David Cage's way, some people absolutely love his games and it's not a template of everything else that's available. People call games garbage when they don't do well, with told ya's, but they still hate when a game is quality and super successful, there's no middle ground it seems....

Where is the evidence of a concerted attack?

The question is especially relevant because the people who've criticized ND for the alleged poor working conditions sure don't look like the same people criticizing ND for TLoU2's story.

Show me the evidence.
 
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I don't know about #1, #2, #4 but you don't know what you are talking about with #3. Salaried employees don't get OT pay. Let's say they give you $200k/yr for just working. Typical hours is 40hr/weeks. Then you enter crunch time and it's 80hr/week for over a year. How much did you really make for the hours? $100k/yr @ 40hr/week - that's significantly less than the quoted 40hr/week = $200k/yr pay.

The issue is trying to survive 80hr/week for an extended long period of time while trying to take care of a family. It doesn't work. Divorces are filed and people quit after they get the bonus from the game. That's just the facts.
Could not agree more I did 16 hours during the week and 8 hours a day on weekends for 6 weeks and it was a strain on my relationship with my wife and zero over time. Don't want to do it again it was first time in 20 years I was asked to do any like that. I can't imagine doing it for 6 months or year because someone can't manage a project and keeps changing and adding to it.
 
People saw the spoilers and aren't happy with the direction they took the story. It's really as simple as that.
 
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ND has been making high scoring and high selling games going all the way back to Crash Bandicoot. They;ve got a slew of Crash games, Jak games, UC, and soon will be two LoU games. It spans 25 years of core gaming (if you exclude the really early stuff they made like Way of the Warrior and a few 16-bit games).

OP, I know you are a diehard PS fan, but you really think people out of nowhere are going after ND in the past month due to the four bullet points you made? lol
 
People definitely make up that movie game shit about them. Just because there's cutscenes and it's not open world doesn't mean it doesn't have amazing gameplay. Anyone whose said that is either politicking or trying to diminish because they don't have the system or prefer another. As for the SJW stuff I dunno I haven't seen spoilers but I certainly don't mind a progressive message if its woven into a good story and the gameplay is still great.
Great comment! 100% accurate
 
Is there also a concerted effort to tear down your favorite movies?

Is there also a concerted effort to tear down your favorite shows?

Is there also a concerted effort to tear down your favorite musicians?

Or do people just tend to have different opinions on these sort of things?
 
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People definitely make up that movie game shit about them. Just because there's cutscenes and it's not open world doesn't mean it doesn't have amazing gameplay. Anyone whose said that is either politicking or trying to diminish because they don't have the system or prefer another. As for the SJW stuff I dunno I haven't seen spoilers but I certainly don't mind a progressive message if its woven into a good story and the gameplay is still great.

Sure. Fair enough.
Realize though people who oppose said "Progressive message" will object to the game in the exact same terms you're prepared to praise it.
 
People definitely make up that movie game shit about them. Just because there's cutscenes and it's not open world doesn't mean it doesn't have amazing gameplay. Anyone whose said that is either politicking or trying to diminish because they don't have the system or prefer another. As for the SJW stuff I dunno I haven't seen spoilers but I certainly don't mind a progressive message if its woven into a good story and the gameplay is still great.

Or, and stay with me on this, people genuinely think the gameplay isn't that great and it feels more like a linear movie-like experience to them. Personally I disagree that the games are movie-like, but I do think they are overly linear with emphasis on too much down time instead of letting the story play out organically via its gameplay (same issue I had with Metal Gear Solid 4 by Konami). This was especially egregious with TLOU.

I know, that may shatter your world view and your massive generalization of people that hate on the studio you like, but that is just the reality of it. Learn to take a different opinion.
 
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Its people upset with the politics in the storyline and upset. That is their right. I will play it and judge for myself. My most wanted game of the year but it will be hard to be fallen order as the best game I played this year.
 
Or, and stay with me on this, people genuinely think the gameplay isn't that great and it feels more like a linear movie-like experience to them. Personally I disagree that the games are movie-like, but I do think they are overly linear with emphasis on too much down time instead of letting the story play out organically via its gameplay (same issue I had with Metal Gear Solid 4 by Konami). This was especially egregious with TLOU.

I know, that may shatter your world view and your massive generalization of people that hate on the studio you like, but that is just the reality of it. Learn to take a different opinion.
If you simply don't like the gameplay then fine. If you say they're movie games you're lying
 
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