Could you imagine if that rationale was used by every formally oppressed people in the world, there would be no end to land seizures based on historical claims of evicted peoples. Could you imagine if a Native America tribe demanded their ancestral claims to Manhattan Island and started demolishing every building!
Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Jerusalem and West Bank highest in 5 years
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Could you imagine if that rationale was used by every formally oppressed people in the world, there would be no end to land seizures based on historical claims of evicted peoples. Could you imagine if a Native America tribe demanded their ancestral claims to Manhattan Island and started demolishing every building!
phosphor112
Banned
Who needs a MasterCard when you have WW2 Guilt Card to make all your purchases?
Atraveller
Banned
I was thinking about the same thing.
bigboss370
Member
this is heartbreaking...
shinobi602
Member
The poor Israelis need more room to live, come on guys.
zero shift
Banned
But guys the Jews were repressed for thousands of years! They need a homeland! This destruction is justified. Blatant anti-semite propaganda.
Well, they do need that Lebensraum
Unsurprisingly, I've talked to quite a few Jews whose families fled prior to WW2 and lived in Israel for a while, only to come back to Germany later because they simply couldn't identify with Israel and the government's actions.
That's pure hyperbole.
speculawyer
Member
Damn dude, you don't need to go Godwin.
zero shift
Banned
Replace Israeli with American and Palestinian with Native American. What's the difference?
Imagine if in America white Americans were forcing African American/Latino/Asian to leave their homes and if they didn't comply they would destory them and build new homes with white people.
Imagine if in America white Americans were forcing African American/Latino/Asian to leave their homes and if they didn't comply they would destory them and build new homes with white people.
international laws that now exist and are supposed to be upheld
OminoMichelin
Member
Yeeeeah I wouldn't put much faith in international ''laws''.
Cheesecakebobby
Banned
More Jews were driven out of Arab countries than Arabs were from Israel. But I somehow doubt that you care about them. Where's their right of return? It's true they were absorbed by Israel, but the Palestinians could have absorbed the Arabs in their own state if they hadn't turned it down. Instead, thousands of Palestinians live in refugee camps in Arab countries because those countries don't give a shit about then except as pawns and bargaining chips. Hence why right now thousands of Palestinians are barely surviving in Syria camps, forced to eat rats and other stray animals.
GrandHarrier
Member
So what you are telling us is that it doesn't matter to you that these actions (the demolitions) are happening, it's who it is happening too?
deathkiller
Member
Should we care more about what happened 50 years ago than about what is happening today? Do the victims of the past have a right to do the same at anyone that shares the race of their aggressors?
The difference is one is in the past and nothing can be done. The other is an ongoing travesty.
BaronLundi
Member
Absolutely disgusting, heartbreaking and unnecessary.
But some of you guys really need to educate yourself to what a genocide is. There's reallly no no need for ridiculous hyperbole to condemn these despicable acts.
But some of you guys really need to educate yourself to what a genocide is. There's reallly no no need for ridiculous hyperbole to condemn these despicable acts.
MisterFalcon
Member
No one lives in the houses the Jews in the Arab world left and they are ready for them to return someday ? Learn something new every day.
Rocket Scientist
Member
Attack is the best defense, isn't it Cheesecake? You seem to know nothing about cartoon_soldier or his views on Palestinians in Arab countries, yet you feel free to judge him anyway. This is a thread about Israel's actions and it says a lot that you feel the need to justify Israel's actions by comparing it to the shitty nations that surround it. Nations led by dictators and idiots. It's a good comparison as Israel is no better or worse than the countries that surround it. The only thing it is better at is public relations.
Doesn't mean I'm just going to sit here and do nothing about it from my side. We have a large community called Friends of Palestine present in most big UK cities. We do demonstrations, protests and it works...even if in a minor way. Even if we can save or improve one life, it's a better than none at all. We are also currently campaigning against banning BAE system's investment in our university (University of Liverpool), it's the highest of any UK university and if we manage to do that (and we won't be the first to accomplish it) then we'll make things considerably hard for them when it comes to drone research and biochemicals...and that is a victory in itself.
If you raise your voice enough then you will be heard and as such the people in power will have to bend eventually, it's not a myth because it does happen !
Jews were not driven out of Arab countries, not sure what you're talking about.
Also, I always find it a bit funny that a country that was based on the idea that people has the right to go back to where their ancestors lived 2000 years ago reject the idea the people has the right to go back to where they lived 5 minutes ago.
Not sure what's the treatment of the Palestinian refugee in Syria has anything to do with that.
deathkiller
Member
He is talking about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands
yeah, and have you heard of this holocaust event?
over 6 million people died there, so everyone shut the fuck up about any and all things done by anyone ever, since- you know- other people have done worse things. and if, while criticizing someone, you do not mention every other bad thing done by everyone ever, you're clearly only discriminating against that someone and your arguments are invalid.
"everyone else is doing it too" is always a great defense, champ
Lebensraum im Osten !
I'm well aware what he's talking about but by and large the Jews were not driven out of these country.
There were some anti-jewish riots after the Israeli Palestinian started (and mostly as a result of it) but they weren't expelled or removed by formce, and in several cases (most famously Iraq and Morocco) Israel and the Jews had to fight pretty hard to be allowed to leave the country.
As far as I know, the only people who were actually expelled from an Arab country were the remaining Jewish community in Egypt in 1956, after Israel attacked Egypt (with England and France) and several member of the Jewish community were caught in a false flag terror plot.
Though that number pale in comparison to the amount of Palestinians that has been displaced, not even in the same ballpark.
Edit: in any case, none of it matter, those comparison of who were wrong more are fucking retarded, like, is it okay for Israel to put 3 million Palestinians in gas chamber because there were more Jews murdered by the Nazis?
This is not worth a thread on an internet message board because there's worse and something about anti-Semitism?
We shouldn't really feel bad about the reporting of bad things in a way that makes us want to downplay them.
This is business as usual, but at least theres a lot thats changed recently of the media's portrayal of the conflict. Before you didnt even comment on it let alone speak of the fact that one side happens to be suffering, now there truly is a watershed moment where the atrocities have become mainstream talking points.
Look at the ScarJo thing, the whole thing has truly blown up and only given more attention to the plight of the Palestinians. The only thing that hasnt changed is the attitude of Zionists, but theyre only digging their own graves.
Look at the ScarJo thing, the whole thing has truly blown up and only given more attention to the plight of the Palestinians. The only thing that hasnt changed is the attitude of Zionists, but theyre only digging their own graves.
Yeah look at how comfortable the Arabs are in Israel, its better than the rest of the ME since they only get their houses demolished!
Many Jews were in fact driven out of Muslim-majority countries, either through direct force, or other pressures. Many Muslims in what is now Israel were also driven out through direct force, or other pressures. Not quite as many, but close. Quite a few of those refugees were also allowed to return to Israel soon after the fighting had died down, joining the Muslims who stayed behind, which explains why 17% of Israeli citizens today are Muslim. You'd be hard pressed to find a Jew in Iraq.
I think Cheesecakebobby brought up the Syrian thing to highlight the trend we see in people prioritizing their hatred for Israel, over highlighting the actual plight of the Palestinians. The only people I really see complaining about mistreatment of Palestinians by their "Muslim brothers" are Palestinians themselves. The SJW crowd is usually too busy raging against the evil Zionists. Not to say Israel's perfect, but they're not the only ones fucking over Palestinians. Not by a long shot.
I recall reading in a few articles that the majority of Jewish migrants to Israel, who are migrating there under the "right of return" law, are in fact descendants of converts to Judaism and have no real ancestral tie to the region.
Centuries actually.
ok guys, we can stop criticizing Israel now: even it's most fervent supporters agree that what they're deliberately doing to defenseless civilians amidst fucking peace-talks is comparable to what happens to defenseless civilians in the middle of the bloodiest civil war of the decade.
What is discussed here is Palestinians driven out of their home by direct action of the government, this is not analogous in any way to Jewish immigration from arab countries. For fuck's sake, the Jews in Arab countries wanted to go to move to Israel, they wanted to be moved, this is the opposite of what you're seeing here.
You will not see me defending Syria, but I don't think it can be used to justify or excuse Israel's action.
And while I don't give a fuck about the "hate prioritization" of some random people, the fact remain that Syria faced a much more serious international pressure than Israel, even well before the civil war.
The war crimes of Israel should not be allowed to continue any longer. They have violated international law and causeed immeasurable pain and sufferinf to the palestinians. Every nation of moral integrity and good concious should completely boycott all Israeli trade. It is sickening what they are doing. You would imagine after what the jewish people have been through thatthey would have some sensitivity to what opression means for others.
You're making a lot assumptions. There's nothing wrong with criticizing Israel, I just did myself in case you didn't notice. The point is, when outrage and focus is overwhelming placed on those perpetrating lesser ills, one has to question the motivation behind that selective focus. It's simply biased.
I'm not trying to deflect attention off of Israel, I'm not calling anyone an anti-semite. I was mostly trying to correct someone's false statement. The Syrian thing was an aside.
I appreciate the sarcasm though.
Their legal basis is the their holy books, which they consider historically accurate proof to support their land claims. Honestly, these actions speak wonders about their intentions. Diverting necessities like water, demolishing people's homes and replacing them with your favored ethnic/religious group, making daily life onerous with an intense military presence?
None of that sounds like the actions of a country interested in peace, cooperation, or even tolerance. What's worse is that moneyed interests have made sure politicians maintain the status quo, while poisoning any criticism of Israel's actions as anti-Semitic.
What an ugly situation all around.
captainnapalm
Member
Syria was for decades a safe haven for Palestinians fleeing the messed up situation in Israel. Now they are casualties of a dirty and messy war in a country fighting for survival and under the threat of terrorist rule.
The plight of palestinians in war-time Syria is an entirely different issue than the institutionalized oppression happening in Israel.
The plight of palestinians in war-time Syria is an entirely different issue than the institutionalized oppression happening in Israel.
You're simply wrong on the matter of the Jewish exodus. Read the Wikipedia article that deathkiller so kindly linked for you, it may break you out of the narrative you've set for yourself.
I'm also not excusing Israel's actions. There's more than two sides to this debate.
According to Israeli law you can't just go to a place claim it as your own and build on it. You need to buy it from the previous owner, you need building permits - i.e. an architect that checked that the house you want to build won't collapse.
Illegal buildings are demolished. Doesn't matter if they were built by israelis or arabs. But the media reports only about arabic demolished buildings (last year, 2013, an entire israeli neighborhood in givaat haulpena was demolished - 0 world media reports). Nobody cares if an israeli got his home demolished if he didn't submit all the necessary paperwork. But if it involves an arab it suddenly becomes a war crime. Go figure.
Please tell me how easy it is for a Palestinian to get this said permit?
captainnapalm
Member
Yes, the systematic displacement of Palestinians on illegally annexed lands over the last five decades is clearly a paperwork issue.
I don't need to read wikipedia articles, big parts of my extended family are sephardic Jews.
Again, outside Egypt in 56, there were no major expulsion of Jews, and in the two biggest Jewish communities - Iraq and Morocco, the local governments have tried to stop the Jews from leaving, they literally made it illegal for Jews to go to Israel, in the case of Morocco, Israel had to fucking pay them money for every Jew they allowed to go to Israel.
Now I'm not saying that those place were super friendly to Jews (they were pretty nice by the way, much better than Europe until the 20th century and the rise of Zionism, but that's neither here nor there) but there was never a systematic expulsion of Jews from these countries, this is just revisionist history.
The whole Jewish Nakbah thing is a recent attempt by Israel to create a false equivalence, it's bullshit, that all it is, and in any case it has nothing to do with the demolition of Palestinian houses by Israel.
For building in disputed territories of Jerusalem? As easy as it is for an Israeli - i.e. he cant. Currently an Israeli can't build there as well.
Nobody is stopping them from building in their cities in the west bank. If they want to build there they need a permit from the Palestinian prime minister, Abu Mazen, and his government, not the Israeli one.
The demolished building are in disputed territories where currently no one is allowed to build.
So they are in the same situation as any Israeli.If they want to build in the Palestinian territories/cities -they can, and they need the permits from their local government. If they want to build in Jerusalem's disputed territories - they cant. If an Israeli wants to build in Tel Aviv he needs an Israeli permit, if he wants to build in the disputed territories of Jerusalem - he cant.
Both sides try to build there illegally once in a while and get their house torn down when the trial ends.
It's apparently not easy at all: http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-arabs-have-no-choice-but-to-build-illegally-1.304777
They lost those lands in 2 wars they started in 48 and 67. If they wnated to they could have accepted UN's proposition in 1947. But they didnt. They wanted all of the jews gone/dead and started a war.
Unfortunately for them they lost that war and a few others that followed. It's not their territory anymore.
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