It is 2014 and PC specs are still way too confuisng.
- Thread starter Alphahawk
- Start date
Beerman462
Member
Buying a PC
Step 1 set budget
Step 2 go to NeoGAF PC building thread
Step 3 ?????
Step 4 profit...
Step 1 set budget
Step 2 go to NeoGAF PC building thread
Step 3 ?????
Step 4 profit...
actually spend a lot of money
Just posting to say never trust your personal "hardcore computer friend" for advice on this matter. I told my friend exactly what I wanted (to run Skyrim with all the high tex mods I couldn't get on PS3 and also something I wouldn't have to upgrade for a long time) and he still couldn't get it right. I imagine from the computer person's end it's like their granny asking how to use her email.
Haven't upgraded since then because I have no intention of ever assembling a PC myself and that's all PC people talk about when they are referring to costs and picking out parts. This isn't knocking PC building or anything, sounds great and cheap, it's just not for me.
Haven't upgraded since then because I have no intention of ever assembling a PC myself and that's all PC people talk about when they are referring to costs and picking out parts. This isn't knocking PC building or anything, sounds great and cheap, it's just not for me.
Gipsy Danger
Member
Where does Orange come in though?
That's a start....although it gives me the thumbs up for Alien: Isolation...with an i3, a GT 640, and 16GB RAM on my work PC. LOL
No way I'm trying to play the game on that.
Alright, you can't leave me hanging, what did he build????
SteveWinwood
Member
the game scales super well and could probably run on a toaster although i havent tested it
Good to know they put that much into it. I'm playing on my i7/780 rig or nothing though
. Unless EVGA hurries up with my step-up...then 980.I wish that tcrunch guy would respond. I'm curious as to if his friend was blowing smoke.
There's so much wrong with this suggestion that I don't really know where to begin. How about, what's a fast motherboard? Or a slow one for that matter.
Also what would stop unscrupulous companies from putting red stickers on everything and charging whatever?
Then there's the fact that your system doesn't account for compatibility in any way.
Netherscourge
Banned
So long as the CPU fits the mobo socket, everything else is pretty much standard across the board.
game-debate.com is what I use. They have a rating for pretty much every cpu/gpu.
After looking those ratings up, note them, and type in a game name in the search bar, and you'll be presented with this
that's all there is to it
That doesn't help the technologically illiterate in building their PC's.
For instance in your GPU:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review said:
Wha? Who? Wha? "More memory bandwidth." Sounds good, but... what the fuck does that mean for the layman?
I mean that's great and all that they "recommend" stuff but: What does that mean to Joe Consumer that simply wants to buy the parts and doesn't know what the difference in "more memory bandwidth" is?
That said this page certainly helps cut through the technical jargon and helps you find what you basically want: "Tiers" for GPUs and then you simply look up the prices and find what you're gonna spend based on the Tier you want.
AnandTech is a little better since it uses graphs from the get-go to help laymen find the performance they want need, but it doesn't show prices or these things fitting together.
PC Parts Picker can kinda help with the prices, but then you're wading through a bunch of PC parts and having your mind blown on so many choices and not sure what fits with what (thankfully PC Parts Picker will generally give warnings in the "build" screen of conflicting parts, but that doesn't help in the "ease of use" factor).
I mean, they're helpful sure. I don't knock that. But for getting Joe Sixpack into building a PC and knowing what all these components do? Ehhhhh, I disagree with you on that.
That said, the GAF thread certainly helps in building things if you tell them what you want to do with the PC but as far as knowing how to build it? You're kinda on your own there (last I checked into that thread they didn't have active links for it?) Same with if you want to know what a GPU/CPU/etc. all are and don't know the terms.
Basically they don't help "ease in" complete newbies.
MrOrange is being very sarcastic, as per usual in an attempt to match some of the stellar suggestions offered by the more console oriented in most PC threads
I see that now. *Whoosh*.
I find it amusing that people are claiming that PC gaming is so easy but the 40+ page threads of well-informed PC gamers on this forum of gamers shitting on themselves when Watchdogs, Shadow of Morder, Evil Within etc etc over whether they can run these new games at a playable framerate at a good resolution on their $1000+ rigs suggests otherwise.
Cause the companies that made them created more problems and people want a baseline they can trust.Would you rather have no discussion and let consumers feel these products work as advertise or as they should?
They're clearly not well informed then.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
There are really two lines of research.
1. What can I afford?
2. What fits with what?
I mean, you don't even really need to worry about #2. Someone's already figured that out. It will even find rebates, combo deals, and give you a historical run of pricing.
Once you get everything, it's like putting together a LEGO set. If it doesn't post, you either missed a step or got a bad motherboard. If you're really worried you might screw it up, you can take that same list over to Fry's or a neighborhood computer shop and they can order what you put in and assemble it for you. If the mobo is fried, they can handle it.
There's a whole lot of decisions that aren't for them if they can't bother to look into things before they drop over a grand on something.
I am not against discussion but can you imagine how a lifelong dirty console-gaming
gamer
MrCunningham
Member
If you want to roll with the PC builders club, the educating yourself should be part of the process. There are plenty of resources out there to help you get up to speed while avoiding the pitfalls of buying incomparable or wrong hardware in general . If you can't handle that and still want to own a PC for gaming, then your next option is to just buy a pre-built system from a reputable seller with good customer service support .
Jakoozie89
Neo Member
This sounds incredibly whiny to me. You're not proving any point here, you're basically just saying that you are either very lazy, or stupid. I'm by no means a PC expert myself, but have you heard about Google?
My point isn't to be elitist, but if you can't be bothered to learn basic things about your own hobby, that's fine. But don't blame everyone else for it.
That's a mischaracterization.
Well informed might be a bit strong but compared to the average solitaire-and-maybe-odd-Steam-gamer of the street wouldn't GAF be more informed than most? Another thing I thought of, look at the AMD vs Intel debates, when I was buying my CPU (i5 4670) I was initially going to buy an 8350 since a lot of benchmarks, reviews and prinent YouTubers were saying they were identical but a lot of GAfFers talked me out of getting the 8350. Hell looking at games like Watchdogs' requirements they suggest 8350s over say my i5 to run the game on recommended.
Prophet Steve
Member
The thing is, PC gaming is a lot easier now. I wouldn't echo the statements that is feel almost like console gaming and there are no difficulties whatsoever though.
But you have all those people worrying about those system specs and it turns out to be everything isn't so bad. If they just stopped worrying and waited for the game, which is what the actual well-informed people do, it would be so much easier for them.
However, they just like to jump to conclusions. I'd love to make a thread about it, that people shouldn't pay too much attention to system requirements, but like with Durante's thread I doubt it will end up making a difference. Would be useful though to just link a thread every time someone is being outraged over system requirements of which we don't know how the game will perform.
And you are much better off with the Intel CPU. They get much better results in games, stop looking at those system requirements.
SocksForWoks
Banned
Once you become with the basic components (motherboard, CPU, GPU, PSU, RAM) and then the two major companies (Intel/AMD) PC Gaming becomes it's own hobby that perfectly compliments mainstream console gaming.
Gipsy Danger
Member
All of the uproar about the reqs for TEW and SoM were before the game came out. After the game came out, people realised they were overblown and that people were able to play with them with half decent computers. All you have to do is ask someone or do a little bit of research and a whole new world opens up to you with PC gaming.
You would think, but you'd be wrong. Evidenced by the myriad of people going nuts when the SoM system requirements were released.
game-debate.com is what I use. They have a rating for pretty much every cpu/gpu.
After looking those ratings up, note them, and type in a game name in the search bar, and you'll be presented with this
that's all there is to it
Wow this is really handy, thank you.
Klart
Member
Sure, you can get fantastic looking games on PC, but PS4 has some terrific looking games as well. Battlefield 4 looks good on PS4, but will look a lot better on a great PC. Then again, games that look as good as Killzone: Shadowfall or DriveClub are not that frequently found on PC.
Yet they DO happen on PC. Crysis 3, Star Citizen, etc. And this is yea rone fo these new ocnsoles. In 3 years, PC games will leave console games far behind.
Gipsy Danger
Member
Are you sure you aren't only saying that because you don't have as much experience with PC? The only reason exclusives don't look that good on PC is because there is no multi-billion dollar company footing the bill. But every multiplat will always look better on PC if you have a half-decent machine. It will also play at least 60fps and whatever resolution you would like.
Edit: Let's also not forget that Witcher 2 was a PC exclusive and looked (still looks) absolutely incredible.
Felix Lighter
Member
And that's at stock, without taking the much larger OC headroom into account. Be thankful to GAF.
More modern games showing i5s from even generations prior to the i5 4670K still out performing the FX 8350 even before you take into consideration the extra overclocking room and much lower power consumption.
I have to imagine it's pretty irritating to those who volunteer so much time in the PC thread to help people to get accused of intentionally or unintentionally misleading people. They are informed users basing their recommendations on the best information available. When a specific game pops up with out of whack recommended specs, they catch a lot of grief, but by the time the games finally release, it becomes apparent that the specs were either inaccurate, (The Evil Within appears to fall here) or an utter technical mess of a port (Watch Dogs couldn't be saved by 6GB Titans).
I don't think you have enough experience with PC games to say that, because it's nowhere near true. A game like the original Crysis still looks fantastic and came out in 2007. Most every game that is a multiplatform release can be run better (higher image quality) on the PC version.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Well, to be honest it is not about what GPU can run what game. You can have a 10 year old 8800 and still run most games. It is how well the GPU will run the game and with what settings turned on.
From what I have seen lately.
$100 GPU - run games @ 1080p. Medium settings. 30+ fps.
$200 - run games @ 1080p. High settings. AA. 30-60fps depending on how good you want the game to look
$300 - run games @1080p+ @ 60fps. Ultra settings. AA. This is the starting point for an " enthusiast " PC gamer. Someone who wants 60fps @ 1080p with nearly every single game. Can even go up to 1440p or downsample from 4K or whatever.
Anything higher then the $300 GPU's and you can basically do whatever.
My current PC is a Radeon 6770 which was $120 when I bought it 4+ years ago. Run games on my 1080p TV @ 30+fps. Very up and down performance though. Can suddenly hit 12fps in a game then shoot right back up to 40. Mainly because I want AA. I never go without AA.
My upgrade will be a Radeon 280X or a Geforce 970. Either or. Both can run the latest games 1080p x 60fps. But from what I'm seeing from recent games, not going any lower then 3GB of VRAM.
PoweredBySoy
Banned
The new Z card is great. N00bs.
Pretty much this. If you're not sure or not confident enough, stick to some tested configurations (you can find a lot of them here in the dedicated thread) and use Raptr or Nvidia Experience to apply "optimized settings" for all the supported games (which are anyhow all the mainstream games) and you're good to go.
Atraveller
Banned
I've never ever read the system requirement before a purchase. I usually upgrade my PC before it falls to the bare minimum for most games.
I don't know man. I only just built my first computer a year ago but I've been keeping track of PC system requirements for around 15 years trying to get games to run on my pre-built Dell systems. I don't think it's that tough if you pay attention to the specs of the computers you buy. Maybe I'm just in a unique position. Maybe I started my computer education at a younger age than some of the people here.
There are really only a handful of important specs you need to keep track of: CPU speed, CPU cores, amount of RAM, the grade of GPU, and amount of VRAM. Just make sure all your numbers for those areas are as high as the numbers listed under "system requirements." You don't need to worry about shader models at all and your DirectX version is a minor concern at best since everything right now is DX11.
The only thing about looking at system requirements that isn't so direct is guessing the grade of GPU based on the name, since that's all aggregated from a shitload of other factors. Generally there are like three "grades" which Nvidia and AMD kinda indicate in their naming conventions, but they each use different conventions. I eventually figured out Nvidia's GTX series naming and AMD's HD series naming, but I haven't figured out AMD's new R series naming yet. If you need to directly compare two cards from the two different companies there are sites for that.
There are really only a handful of important specs you need to keep track of: CPU speed, CPU cores, amount of RAM, the grade of GPU, and amount of VRAM. Just make sure all your numbers for those areas are as high as the numbers listed under "system requirements." You don't need to worry about shader models at all and your DirectX version is a minor concern at best since everything right now is DX11.
The only thing about looking at system requirements that isn't so direct is guessing the grade of GPU based on the name, since that's all aggregated from a shitload of other factors. Generally there are like three "grades" which Nvidia and AMD kinda indicate in their naming conventions, but they each use different conventions. I eventually figured out Nvidia's GTX series naming and AMD's HD series naming, but I haven't figured out AMD's new R series naming yet. If you need to directly compare two cards from the two different companies there are sites for that.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
I built a pc for gaming in 2010. Never again
BlackGoku03
Member
What I've found out over the years as a sys admin is people really don't want to invest the time or effort to build a rig. Most people anyway. I used to say "oh, building your own PC is easy! Just look at this guide or that guide. " No. People want to pay to have it done for them or just play consoles.
In fact, I haven't met a regular person yet who was willing to build their own PC.
There are lots of helpful sites out there and sites that will help you piece a workstation together. But what most PC gamers here on GAF fail to realize is it's not as easy as they think it is. The knowledge it takes to put a PC together and choosing the right parts is a barrier to most people. The time it takes is another barrier too.
I'm just saying, it isn't for everyone. It isn't for most people, in fact. That is why I make decent side cash building custom rigs and quit trying to educate everyone who wants a new gaming rig.
In fact, I haven't met a regular person yet who was willing to build their own PC.
There are lots of helpful sites out there and sites that will help you piece a workstation together. But what most PC gamers here on GAF fail to realize is it's not as easy as they think it is. The knowledge it takes to put a PC together and choosing the right parts is a barrier to most people. The time it takes is another barrier too.
I'm just saying, it isn't for everyone. It isn't for most people, in fact. That is why I make decent side cash building custom rigs and quit trying to educate everyone who wants a new gaming rig.
This is partially because GPUs come in their own specialized form factor with their own relatively small mainboard (compared to your motherboard) and self-contained package that needs to follow certain standards to properly connect and fit into a PCI-E slot, the space allowed by most PC cases, and standardized cooler designs. GPUs are also very specifically designed to work as the whole package of the PCB they're on.
GPUs wouldn't be doable as they currently are if VRAM had to come separately as it does with CPUs. RAM sticks like on a CPU would effectively make the whole card significantly thicker, would need it's own extensive R & D, would ruin the effectiveness of memory data transfer in some cases (like up and coming stacked DRAM closely integrated with the die), etc.
Then there's also VRAM cooling to account for. VRAM sticks adding an element of verticality to the design would complicate things and given the way memory buses can only really effectively manage certain multiples of VRAM (ie, 256-bit with current RAM densities needs 1, 2, 4, 8, etc. GBs; 384-bit needs 1.5, 3, 6, 12, etc.; 320-bit needs 1.25, 2.5, 5, etc.) varying on the specific GPU and because each whole memory bus is made up of several 64-bit buses each needing to connect to a RAM chip of the same size as the others, standardization of separately sold VRAM would be a pain.
There's also the likely reason that GPU manufacturers don't want you upgrading VRAM and want you to buy either newer, workstation, or double VRAM models for that, instead.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
I don't know, I built a PC a few years ago. Never had problems knowing roughly what I was going to get, thanks to detailed reviews. My PC plays basically everything on Steam minus the newest greatest stuff. It's low stress because there's nothing to get stressed about.