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[Romulus]

Never seen a guy so happy to have zero evidence. But the mountains of evidence supporting the reality he doesn't like are all wrong!!!

Evidence of what? I never mentioned VR is anything but exactly what it is.

I'll see you in the VR threads in 2036 saying it's dying. I'm still waiting for you to post your alternate data link to the 1 million Quest 3 sales. Don't let me down!

 

[tr1p1ex]

Evidence of what? I never mentioned VR is anything but exactly what it is.

I'll see you in the VR threads in 2036 saying it's dying. I'm still waiting for you to post your alternate data link to the 1 million Quest 3 sales. Don't let me down!

Wake me up when you some evidence to support your pie in the sky.

 

[R6Rider]

It's weird people are so hung up on Half Life Alyx (which is great btw).

You're missing the forest for the trees, imo.

Imo 3 (or 4) of the best 10 games of the last 2 years are VR games.

Hitman VR
GT7 VR
Resident Evil 4 VR

It's generally people who haver even played VR just shouting the same thing they read online.

 

[Romulus]

Wake me up when you some evidence to support your pie in the sky.

Damn, you had to resort to making things up that I didn't say. I'll take it the victory lap.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Damn, you had to resort to making things up that I didn't say. I'll take it the victory lap.

YOu've proven your case. VR is barely hanging on. Now take a bow.

 

[Kamina]

I've been saying for years that VR is a niche product, but people were like "Nooooo, its the future!!!1!!1!"
It's amazing technology, but the price point and lack of system-seller games makes it unattractive for the mass market.

 

[Digity.exe]

90% of my gaming is done in VR but that is all sim racing via iRacing. It has absolutely transformed sim racing for me. I look forward to whatever advancements come to the VR realm. I can certainly see the hesitancy new comers would have with more typical style games. All VR games need to be playable on any device.

 

[Romulus]

90% of my gaming is done in VR but that is all sim racing via iRacing. It has absolutely transformed sim racing for me. I look forward to whatever advancements come to the VR realm. I can certainly see the hesitancy new comers would have with more typical style games. All VR games need to be playable on any device.

I go through stints where I just place Ace Combat or a racing sim. I do switch it up but I'll never go back to any sim without VR. It's just too much of an advantage in every way.

 

[Digity.exe]

I go through stints where I just place Ace Combat or a racing sim. I do switch it up but I'll never go back to any sim without VR. It's just too much of an advantage in every way.

I could never go back to using screens for sim racing, even if I had the nicest 65" 4k triple monitor set up. Some may argue that you then can't enjoy the extras like button boxes and all the other doo-dads available to you but I still get away with using button boxes in VR, it all becomes muscle memory anyways. I currently have a HP Reverb G2, looking to upgrade but this thing has been such a work horse, solid unit.

 

[Romulus]

I could never go back to using screens for sim racing, even if I had the nicest 65" 4k triple monitor set up. Some may argue that you then can't enjoy the extras like button boxes and all the other doo-dads available to you but I still get away with using button boxes in VR, it all becomes muscle memory anyways. I currently have a HP Reverb G2, looking to upgrade but this thing has been such a work horse, solid unit.

Yeah and just the scale of looking to my left or right and seeing a car that looks actual size vs whatever tiny representation a monitor has. Even a massive monitor gets it wrong every single time just because of the nature of the tech.

Not to mention, the depth of stereoscopic 3d fools you into actually feeling like you're inside the game is just beyond anything a monitor can do. Faaaaar beyond. I'll take the hit to extra buttons any day.

 

[Three]

I agree 100%. I don't have enough space in my apartment as my furniture gets in the way. I'm not planning to throw my quality furniture in the trash. If I want VR ready room I will also need to throw my bed away which is insane.

Nothing against VR, it is cool, but only if you have a big house as it is a nightmare to set up in regular apartments.

Most VR games support seated play.

 

[simpatico]

You can easily find posts and GAF and AVS about 3DTVs being an inevitable future.

 

[Wonko_C]

Swery65 giving his two cents of where it's all heading to:

"we're likely to move away from bulky headsets to something more lightweight and wearable".

"If that happens, VR could replace things like traditional monitors, TVs, and even car mirrors. It could integrate with public transit systems, display traffic signs, or show real-time congestion data. It has the potential to reshape how we interact with the world,"

"Ultimately, I believe VR won't just be a peripheral for gaming. It's becoming the next major computing platform, much like smartphones did. We're already starting to see signs of this, and as devices become lighter and networks faster, the question won't be "what can you do in VR?" but rather "what can't you do?"

SWERY Believes VR Will Become “The Next Major Computing Platform”

Deadly Premonition and Death Game Hotel creator Hidetaka 'SWERY' Suehiro believes VR will become “the next major computing platform” that goes beyond gaming.

www.uploadvr.com

 

[Romulus]

This is from 2016

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/all-vr-is-dead-on-arrival.1167371/

Over the last 9-10 years the "VR is dead" narrative has shifted to "only because meta saved VR." lol, but no response from anyone why all these other companies are still invested a decade later. Can't wait until 2035 and people still making clickbait threads, all the while major players will still be invested.

 

[Mithos]

When this is 100-150 euro and not 1300-1400 euro, it start being interesting.

 

[tr1p1ex]

This is from 2016

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/all-vr-is-dead-on-arrival.1167371/

Over the last 9-10 years the "VR is dead" narrative has shifted to "only because meta saved VR." lol, but no response from anyone why all these other companies are still invested a decade later. Can't wait until 2035 and people still making clickbait threads, all the while major players will still be invested.

Meta didn't save VR. It just hasn't turned off the life support yet.

VR being DOA in 2016 largely proved to be accurate.

 

[Romulus]

Meta didn't save VR. It just hasn't turned off the life support yet.

VR being DOA in 2016 largely proved to be accurate.

Oh wow, so just almost ten years of life support. Crazy! You should tell Valve, Bigscreen, Pimax, and Samsung not to release their headsets in 2025. You probably know more than all of them combined. You could show them the optional app data you found about Quest 3 failing because of only 1 million sales and save them money. They might even hire you.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Oh wow, so just almost ten years of life support. Crazy! You should tell Valve, Bigscreen, Pimax, and Samsung not to release their headsets in 2025. You probably know more than all of them combined. You could show them the optional app data you found about Quest 3 failing because of only 1 million sales and save them money. They might even hire you.

That's what it is called when companies lose tens of billions of $$$$ and the market uptake at best is roughly that of the Gamecube ~10 years later with reports stating most are gathering dust in 6 months. Call it the great subsidization if you will. Call it the great virtual handout.

No need to pretend otherwise.

 

[Romulus]

That's what it is called when companies lose tens of billions of $$$$ and the market uptake at best is roughly that of the Gamecube ~10 years later with reports stating most are gathering dust in 6 months. Call it the great subsidization if you will. Call it the great virtual handout.

No need to pretend otherwise.

"Reports of gathering dust"

Meanwhile, major brands are still invested and planning headsets beyond 2025. I'll trust them over you. Sorry.

 

[tr1p1ex]

"Reports of gathering dust"

Meanwhile, major brands are still invested and planning headsets beyond 2025. I'll trust them over you. Sorry.

The evidence is speaking. Not me.

 

[Romulus]

The evidence is speaking. Not me.

Yup, they wouldn't be invested if the reports were relevant. They might not even true at all. Let's be real, you've proven you'll except any negative news about VR as gospel. You've proven that.

 

[XXL]

Yup, they wouldn't be invested if the reports were relevant. They might not even true at all. Let's be real, you've proven you'll except any negative news about VR as gospel. You've proven that.

I wouldn't pay much attention to this posters opinions.

They literally think there is no difference between 1080p and 4K.

Yep and there's also little to no difference between 4k and 1080p when sitting back from abc number of feet on yyz sized tv.

 

[tr1p1ex]

I wouldn't pay much attention to this posters opinions.

They literally think there is no difference between 1080p and 4K.

 

[Wonko_C]

When this is 100-150 euro and not 1300-1400 euro, it start being interesting.

I will purchase a Nintendo Switch 2 if it's 100-150 euro.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Yup, they wouldn't be invested if the reports were relevant. They might not even true at all. Let's be real, you've proven you'll except any negative news about VR as gospel. You've proven that.

Companies invest because they think there is a chance. Often times do it rather blindly. Or against the evidence.
Part of the thought process/reason why in this case would be ...well the past headsets aren't as good the one we're building!!! OR something like VR is sexy. We want to be seen as a forward thinking company! The other part of it is the investment in hardware like a headset in this case most likely started started years ago.

I can't help what the evidence says. These reports would be opposite if the opposite was happening.

 

[Romulus]

Companies invest because they think there is a chance. Often times do it rather blindly. Or against the evidence.
Part of the thought process/reason why in this case would be ...well the past headsets aren't as good the one we're building!!! OR something like VR is sexy. We want to be seen as a forward thinking company! The other part of it is the investment in hardware like a headset in this case most likely started started years ago.

I can't help what the evidence says. These reports would be opposite if the opposite was happening.

Did you read the "reports" in 1080p or 4k? At what distance?

 

[tr1p1ex]

Did you read the "reports" in 1080p or 4k? At what distance?

can you read at all?

 

[Mithos]

I will purchase a Nintendo Switch 2 if it's 100-150 euro.

Yeah I' haven't gotten a Switch yet because of price, will also not get Switch 2 if it cost as much as a PS5 without having performance to match.

 

[SirKicksalot]

Companies invest because they think there is a chance. Often times do it rather blindly. Or against the evidence.
Part of the thought process/reason why in this case would be ...well the past headsets aren't as good the one we're building!!! OR something like VR is sexy. We want to be seen as a forward thinking company! The other part of it is the investment in hardware like a headset in this case most likely started started years ago.

This was the cardboard and Gear VR phase and it ended like 5 years ago.

 

[Romulus]

can you read at all?

Anything outside of your convoluted posts, yeah.

 

[Starbuck2907]

The next Xbox will be a pc for the living room that also lets you play Steam games.

Based on that, I'd call the "Xbox experiment" a huge success. Where do I preorder?

 

[Allandor]

It's generally people who haver even played VR just shouting the same thing they read online.

2 VR sets (quest 2) in my household. Both my kids have one but the headset is are collecting dust since a year or so.
I'm not saying the market is dead yet, but it is also not growing. It's still a niche product. The niche growed since a few years ago, but it's still a niche. There are no numbers that provide any evidence that the market is growing.
Even Sony left the market.

Maybe someday it will be restarted again (when the economy is in a better shape) but currently it's just another niche product, less and less people buy.

 

[Romulus]

Indicators on the smaller enthusiast side aren't bad either. Bigscreen beyond 2 just launched:

Bigscreen Beyond 2 and Beyond 2e were announced and went on sale 11 days ago, and a day later Bigscreen said it sold more Beyond 2 headsets in the first 24 hours than it did Beyond 1 in its first 6 months, which it says represents 10 times as many units.

More Bigscreen Beyond 2 Headsets Sold Already Than Original In First Year

Bigscreen says it has now sold more Beyond 2 headsets, after just 11 days, than it did the original Beyond in its first entire year.

www.uploadvr.com

Despite it being a smaller scale, it's hard to argue that 10x growth is bad. I think it just comes down to listening to the customers. They made a headset that people want, it's very small and has awesome specs in real-world testing for around a $1000. We'll see another successor at this rate.

 

[Krathoon]

I was messing around with VR yesterday. I was trying to get a Virtual Boy emulator working and it turned out it was broken.

I found another one that worked perfectly. It is VirtualBoyGo.

I was about the toss the headset trying to get the other one to work.

For some reason, I got a bunch of apps on my Quest 3 that I did not buy. Is Occulus giving out free apps or something?

There still seems to be life in VR, but it is kind of niche thing that really did not catch on.

That is still kind of fun because you got a lot of indie titles messing with it.

 

[Krathoon]

Still, it is great that you can watch Captain EO in VR. I got that working.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

I was messing around with VR yesterday. I was trying to get a Virtual Boy emulator working and it turned out it was broken.

I found another one that worked perfectly. It is VirtualBoyGo.

I was about the toss the headset trying to get the other one to work.

For some reason, I got a bunch of apps on my Quest 3 that I did not buy. Is Occulus giving out free apps or something?

There still seems to be life in VR, but it is kind of niche thing that really did not catch on.

That is still kind of fun because you got a lot of indie titles messing with it.

Still, it is great that you can watch Captain EO in VR. I got that working.

You probably wanted to post that in the thread below.

Analysis Review  Thread 'Meta Quest 3 | OT + Review Thread |'

Oct 9, 2023

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Video Reviews








​

THE GOOD

• Better, more comfortable hardware...

• Draugoth
• Replies: 1,452
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

• 
• 

 

[Jesb]

The price made it destined to fail to keep growing. I found it odd that an extension of the console is more expensive than the console.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Vr is great but it is what it is

 

[EviLore]

Beat Saber tho

 

[Markio128]

Beat Saber tho

In all seriousness, having been LTTP with that one (didn't play it until PSVR 2) it has cemented itself into my all time top 10 games. For that reason alone, I can't consider VR a failure.

From the outside in, and certainly from a business perspective, then I can understand the reasoning. And no doubt, Sony's support has been shockingly bad. I wouldn't buy another headset from Sony for that reason.

I'm interested to see where Quest goes though.

 

[Power Pro]

Beat Saber tho

I could never get into Beat Saber because the base game only has like 2 songs I like. I tried a few modded in songs, but the people that make those always do the highest difficulty only for songs I did like, and those might as well be impossible for me.

 

[Romulus]

I like how every few months or so someone feels the need to declare VR dead, meanwhile Valve, meta, Bigscreen, Pimax, etc all have new headsets coming out.

These declarations have went on since 2016.

 

[Buggy Loop]

The price made it destined to fail to keep growing. I found it odd that an extension of the console is more expensive than the console.

But price is just a point in time

Inevitably throughout the upcoming years it will improve, smaller form factor, cool optic technologies, lower price, lighter, more standalone, etc

Declaring it dead now is premature to say the least.

 

[Shockwave_Fox]

I had a PSVR on PS4.

Resident 7 was intense and GT Sport was awesome BUT it made me feel horrifically sick so I never used it more than a couple of times.

Have been put off VR altogether since then.

 

[Minsc]

I like how every few months or so someone feels the need to declare VR dead, meanwhile Valve, meta, Bigscreen, Pimax, etc all have new headsets coming out.

These declarations have went on since 2016.

Dead in the sense it's not gaining console-like AAA success I imagine?

If you're not putting up Nintendo Switch 2 or PS5 numbers - 10M+ units a year, you're dead?

Or look at games on both platforms, outside of your top 10 best-selling games, what's the average sales like? How many random VR games break 10 million copies? At what price?

Take a look at a PC MMORPG like FFXI which has been around for ages, and the biggest VR MMORPG Zenith, which ceased development last year. Probably part of the issue is no one really wants to wear a VR headset 12 hours a day to game, like a PC MMORPG, but VR just can't compete, and that's true in a lot of genres.

Also, VR is much more fractured than consoles, like PC hardware. There's no one desktop or laptop or handheld that is going to sell as well as the Switch 2, but combine ALL the desktops and handhelds and laptops together, and then you're talking. For VR you have the glasses, the headset from all manufacturers, Meta, Sony, Valve, Apple etc. Maybe they're not at that level yet, but a similar concept.

My thoughts haven't really changed much after my honey moon phase with the PSVR2, that VR is amazing, but tech the masses just don't want, in its current form. For it to gain console-level support, it basically needs to evolve completely, in every area. And be standalone. It's like an impossible list of conditions.

Standalone.
Not motion sickness inducing.
Weightless.
Not isolating. Not a helmet or glasses.
Work for people with glasses.
Not the least bit uncomfortable in any climate (hot summer heat)
Have traditional controls as well as VR
Not have wires.
Not need any batteries.
Have thousands of AAA games.
Work with all TV/Movie streaming services, and have VR movies, and HDR and great OLED colors.

And finally, not cost much money, all that above for a few hundred bucks.

 

[Nintendo's Witch]

It's just a very expensive gimmick

 

[Romulus]

Dead in the sense it's not gaining console-like AAA success I imagine?

If you're not putting up Nintendo Switch 2 or PS5 numbers - 10M+ units a year, you're dead?

Or look at games on both platforms, outside of your top 10 best-selling games, what's the average sales like? How many random VR games break 10 million copies? At what price?

Take a look at a PC MMORPG like FFXI which has been around for ages, and the biggest VR MMORPG Zenith, which ceased development last year. Probably part of the issue is no one really wants to wear a VR headset 12 hours a day to game, like a PC MMORPG, but VR just can't compete, and that's true in a lot of genres.

Also, VR is much more fractured than consoles, like PC hardware. There's no one desktop or laptop or handheld that is going to sell as well as the Switch 2, but combine ALL the desktops and handhelds and laptops together, and then you're talking. For VR you have the glasses, the headset from all manufacturers, Meta, Sony, Valve, Apple etc. Maybe they're not at that level yet, but a similar concept.

My thoughts haven't really changed much after my honey moon phase with the PSVR2, that VR is amazing, but tech the masses just don't want, in its current form. For it to gain console-level support, it basically needs to evolve completely, in every area. And be standalone. It's like an impossible list of conditions.

Standalone.
Not motion sickness inducing.
Weightless.
Not isolating. Not a helmet or glasses.
Work for people with glasses.
Not the least bit uncomfortable in any climate (hot summer heat)
Have traditional controls as well as VR
Not have wires.
Not need any batteries.
Have thousands of AAA games.
Work with all TV/Movie streaming services, and have VR movies, and HDR and great OLED colors.

And finally, not cost much money, all that above for a few hundred bucks.

I just think dead means dead, kinect and 3DTVs were and still are the main comparisons in those conversations, yet here we are with VR headsets planned for another half decade and releasing this year too.

It can be it's own thing without ever needing to be switch 2 or kinect.

 

[CitizenKratos]

I'm one of those who embraced it and still love my PSVR2. I would probably never play GT7 another way. If Requiem gets a port I'll be on cloud 9.

But yeah, it's not an easy product to sell to the masses due to the fact it won't stick without user commitment.

 

[Miles708]

I had a PSVR on PS4.

Resident 7 was intense and GT Sport was awesome BUT it made me feel horrifically sick so I never used it more than a couple of times.

Have been put off VR altogether since then.

Same here.
If you live just for videogames it can make sense, but if gaming is just a hobby, then all the hurdles you have to overcome to play some VR stuff makes the entire deal simply unappealing.

 

[ReasonBeing]

I think it's clear that VR game development requires a different set of design skills than traditional gaming platforms, but the industry will naturally develop a sort of "do's and don'ts" list over time. If the platform can survive long enough, it will work itself out.

In the meantime, social experiences continue to be the best bet in helping VR break through and become mainstream. Over the past few years, I have migrated over to Bigscreen to get my sports fix, and not only is it the best way to watch and sporting event (outside of a sports bar), it's not even close.

Ironically, the large amount of friction involved ensures that when you find a group of people watching whatever sporting event you are interested in, you can bet that those participating are going to some hardcore fans. There were probably 8-11 rooms dedicated to Canelo - Bud fight last night, and every one of them was filled with real boxing fans. It was an awesome time.

When the rest of the world catches on that these experiences are out there, I think that's when VR will really find its footing in the market. I imagine, some friction needs to be reduced, but there is always room for a few more normies. Especially if that ensures continued development in the VR space.