I've changed - PSOne visuals hold up better than N64 ones
- Thread starter olimario
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jett said:Neither did anybody else on the planet.The N64 can push a maximum of 150k polys. That's it. There's no secret turbo mode. You can plainly see the difference in polygon pushing power between the PSX and the N64, anyway.
150,000 = with all effects on and that was using the buggy old microcode
600,000 = PS quality
Go search the Beyond3d forums theres an intersting topic about the turbo with real developers.
I will hazard a guess and say it could prolly do 1 million raw.
The problem is that the GPU fillrate (thanks to memory latencies) was crap so you could never display all those 600000 pps...
Sure the RSP was powerful, no doubt about it but the GPU had its limitations and this can be seen in each game that makes use of the HI-RES mode. More pixels=more fillrate needed= N64 down to 5 fps.
Sure the RSP was powerful, no doubt about it but the GPU had its limitations and this can be seen in each game that makes use of the HI-RES mode. More pixels=more fillrate needed= N64 down to 5 fps.
Someone post some Panzer Dragoon II shots.. I recall that game looking godly back in the day. Nights too, if it werent for the terrible pop up.
Also, I didnt realize how much better Mario 64 DS looks compared to Mario 64.. I thought it was only slightly better looking... cant wait to see a quality team fully design a 3d game around the hardware.
Also, I didnt realize how much better Mario 64 DS looks compared to Mario 64.. I thought it was only slightly better looking... cant wait to see a quality team fully design a 3d game around the hardware.
Crazymoogle
Member
ourumov said:
*agh*
*Points finger directly at texture cache
Unison said:
but no bridge in Shun Di's level.
Really, people who didnt own a Saturn probably missed out on the best games of last gen. Like Gameplayers once said... Saturn is the last system you should buy, but if you own all three, you'll like the Saturn best.
Good looking Saturn games.
Shining Force 3.
Virtual On
I think Saturn may not have looked as good at the time, but its aged alot better.
StoOgE said:
Haha, I remember not caring a whit about this... I am going to go hook my Saturn up to have another look at it to see how it's aged.
Of course this is true, though the best thing about the Saturn was the 2d games (Guardian Heroes, Darkstalkers, SF Alpha 2, etc etc...).
Also, a Saturn + Universal adapter + Ram expansion pack + 6 button controller = best home translation of Capcom fighters. I swear its the best looking version of Street Fighter Alpha 3 you will ever see. No one ever believes me, but it really does look better than the DC version. The Saturn controller made it play alot better than any of those stupid 4 button jobbers.
Also, Radiant Silvergun is rock.
Also, Radiant Silvergun is rock.
Error Macro
Member
Someone needs to make a thread, or list, or something, of all the recommended Saturn games. I've had mine for a couple of years now, but I didn't buy any games outside of the ones that came with it when I got it from my friend. Of which, the 3 or 4 I got are pretty asstastic - Street Fighter: The Movie? Wow.
Saturn games you should own.
Fighters Megamix
Fighting Vipers 2
Virtua Fighters 2
Hang on GP
Daytona CCE
Sega Rally 2
Touring Car championshio
Shining Foce 3
Panzer series
some Capcom fighters
some 2d SNK games (cant really go wrong, the Metal slugs are good on Saturn)
NiGHTS
Burning Rangers
Aastal
Shinobi Legions
Legend of Oasis (if you like Zelda, you'll like this)
Grandia stuff.
Clockword Night games as well.. esp the first one.
Maybe Bug!, though something tells me it aged poorly.
Im sure Im missing some, but you cant go wrong with those.
Fighters Megamix
Fighting Vipers 2
Virtua Fighters 2
Hang on GP
Daytona CCE
Sega Rally 2
Touring Car championshio
Shining Foce 3
Panzer series
some Capcom fighters
some 2d SNK games (cant really go wrong, the Metal slugs are good on Saturn)
NiGHTS
Burning Rangers
Aastal
Shinobi Legions
Legend of Oasis (if you like Zelda, you'll like this)
Grandia stuff.
Clockword Night games as well.. esp the first one.
Maybe Bug!, though something tells me it aged poorly.
Im sure Im missing some, but you cant go wrong with those.
N64 games stick in my mind as 'bigger'
Larger areas, less loading, and all that jazz
I enjoyed the PSX games more, however...some of them I come to appreciate for their graphics...though honestly, I wasn't [graphics whore style] 'wowed' much last gen
On the N64 front, these games impressed me:
Mario 64
Zelda: OoT
Zelda: MM
Conkers
Perfect Dark
Turok 2 (Flamethrower)
And on the PSX you have the usuals:
Omega Boost (Fast Paced with Nice Effects)
Vagrant Story (Best Art Direction last Gen IMO. Excellent Area Design. Technically Great for PSX)
Chrono Cross (Technical (though it could be much better))
Final Fantasy 8, 9
Metal Gear Solid
Threads of Fate
Spyro 1 & 2
Crash 3 & Team Racing
Gran Turismo 2
RR4
Tekken 3
N2O (Loved the loading and the game is fun anyways)
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Tomb Raider [X] (at the time it was good looking...though I can't remember which one...and hated playing all the other games at any rate)
Legend of Dragoon (Another game I didn't enjoy but thought looked good at the time)
Rollcage (At the time)
¾ of the PSX games stand the test of time well (though admittedly some need some assistance from ePSXe) and all of the N64 games I listed (with the sole exception of Mario) I thought looked good then, and withstood the tests of time well
Larger areas, less loading, and all that jazz
I enjoyed the PSX games more, however...some of them I come to appreciate for their graphics...though honestly, I wasn't [graphics whore style] 'wowed' much last gen
On the N64 front, these games impressed me:
Mario 64
Zelda: OoT
Zelda: MM
Conkers
Perfect Dark
Turok 2 (Flamethrower)
And on the PSX you have the usuals:
Omega Boost (Fast Paced with Nice Effects)
Vagrant Story (Best Art Direction last Gen IMO. Excellent Area Design. Technically Great for PSX)
Chrono Cross (Technical (though it could be much better))
Final Fantasy 8, 9
Metal Gear Solid
Threads of Fate
Spyro 1 & 2
Crash 3 & Team Racing
Gran Turismo 2
RR4
Tekken 3
N2O (Loved the loading and the game is fun anyways)
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Tomb Raider [X] (at the time it was good looking...though I can't remember which one...and hated playing all the other games at any rate)
Legend of Dragoon (Another game I didn't enjoy but thought looked good at the time)
Rollcage (At the time)
¾ of the PSX games stand the test of time well (though admittedly some need some assistance from ePSXe) and all of the N64 games I listed (with the sole exception of Mario) I thought looked good then, and withstood the tests of time well
Okay, I hooked up the Saturn and VF2 definitely has its flaws. It's obviously not pushing that many polygons at all (the backdrops are parallax scrolling bitmaps), which might disqualify it for this conversation, but it sure as heck still looks "solid". The game runs at a flawless frame rate in a higher resolution than usual, so it looks less aged than I suspected it would. I certainly wouldn't put it up against modern games or anything, but it has few horrible flaws.
That being said, it felt GREAT to hold that Saturn pad again. It's easily the best control pad they ever made.
That being said, it felt GREAT to hold that Saturn pad again. It's easily the best control pad they ever made.
StoOgE said:
You must have been talking to the wrong people then, because it's pretty much a fact that SFA3 on the Saturn was the best version overall and the closest to the arcade version. It did have some slowdown when doing V-Ism combos though.
The Playstation version of SFA looks better than the DC version too.
There's just something about the visuals in the early DC Capcom fighters that was a little off. These days, I just play all the Capcom games on my modded Xbox now anyway, although I do occasionally get the urge to use the home console-only characters in SFA3.There's no denying that the Saturn was the king of 2D during the 32-bit era.
Bauer Action Hour
Member
The games I consider "great" that I have for Saturn:
Virtua Fighter
Astal
World Series Baseball
Rayman
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Cop
Street Fighter Alpha
NiGHTS
World Series Baseball II
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
Virtua Cop 2
World Series Baseball 98
Sonic Jam
Mega Man X4
NBA Action 98 (the precursor to the 2k games...)
Street Fighter Collection
X-Men Vs Street Fighter (Japanese)
Shining Force III
Panzer Dragoon Saga
I have 13 other games but only consider them solid or bad. There are a number of games that other people consider great that I don't have or don't have an interest in.
The ones I don't have but played and thought were great include:
Guardian Heroes
Decathlete
Marvel Super Heroes
Burning Rangers
Saturn was a great system. Shitty graphics, but a number of excellent experiences. The one thing I wish there was more of was 2d platformers since the system was such a 2d beast.
Virtua Fighter
Astal
World Series Baseball
Rayman
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Cop
Street Fighter Alpha
NiGHTS
World Series Baseball II
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
Virtua Cop 2
World Series Baseball 98
Sonic Jam
Mega Man X4
NBA Action 98 (the precursor to the 2k games...)
Street Fighter Collection
X-Men Vs Street Fighter (Japanese)
Shining Force III
Panzer Dragoon Saga
I have 13 other games but only consider them solid or bad. There are a number of games that other people consider great that I don't have or don't have an interest in.
The ones I don't have but played and thought were great include:
Guardian Heroes
Decathlete
Marvel Super Heroes
Burning Rangers
Saturn was a great system. Shitty graphics, but a number of excellent experiences. The one thing I wish there was more of was 2d platformers since the system was such a 2d beast.
You're just talking crazy now, just load up both SFA3s and switch between them during a fight. The PS1 port just looks hideous, the sprites are blurry and undefined in comparison.
I understand the DC is a little stretched compared to the arcade version, but no need to take it to extremes. Error Macro
Member
Stooge, Bauer, thanks dudes. I'll have to start searching for those games on eBay and elsewhere.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
jett said:
Laugh all you want, but many professional developers can confirm this as well
.Hitman said:
Yeah, all the time. I work at a video game store that sells used games/systems, and see PSX running on one TV and N64 on the other. Most N64 games look muddy and have incredibly choppy frame rates; PSX games were generally smoother in comparison. There's obviously exceptions.
The pics Jett posted should have ended this thread.
Unison said:
On a modded Xbox, you can run Mame (can't run a lot of the more recent titles like PCs can, however), all the CPS1, CPS2, and Neo-Geo games, Genesis/Sega CD/32X, SNES, NES, N64, Game Gear/Master System, TG-16 and PCE CD, GBA, and more. There's even a PSX emulator, but it's still a bit on the slow side. I can run Castlevania SOTN at a very playable speed now, so it's getting better.
The Capcom and SNK fighters are what I play the most; it's main reason my Saturn and DC don't really get any play time nowadays. It's also awesome to be able to play all these games in 480p.
most impressive 3d games on each console:
saturn: panzer dragoon zwei (terrific art, on-rails-ness allows all sorts of nifty tricks)
psx: wipeout 3 (60fps, hi res, tremendous style)
n64: sin and punishment (TONS of stuff going on, probably the only n64 game that successfully manages an intricate visual style)
saturn: panzer dragoon zwei (terrific art, on-rails-ness allows all sorts of nifty tricks)
psx: wipeout 3 (60fps, hi res, tremendous style)
n64: sin and punishment (TONS of stuff going on, probably the only n64 game that successfully manages an intricate visual style)
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Crazymoogle said:
Crazy, how about Z-buffering not being free (it was advertised as so, but thanks to the great RAM they used it ended up being quite "not free") and with Z-buffering and alpha-blending going below 30 MPixels/s (with Z-buffering the N64 was slower to fill te screen than PSOne and without Z-buffering it was faster unless you were also doing alpha-blending) ?
The latency of the main RAM in the N64 was atrocious and there were not many ays tio hide the latency and gain back performance from the system.
Texture cache and all, I wonder how would N64 games look if they had a main RAM sub-system with low memory latency.
Lyte Edge said:On a modded Xbox, you can run Mame (can't run a lot of the more recent titles like PCs can, however), all the CPS1, CPS2, and Neo-Geo games, Genesis/Sega CD/32X, SNES, NES, N64, Game Gear/Master System, TG-16 and PCE CD, GBA, and more. There's even a PSX emulator, but it's still a bit on the slow side. I can run Castlevania SOTN at a very playable speed now, so it's getting better.
The Capcom and SNK fighters are what I play the most; it's main reason my Saturn and DC don't really get any play time nowadays. It's also awesome to be able to play all these games in 480p.
Ahhhh... That is awesome. I need to get one of these, probably, but I need to find a place that can sell it to me with this stuff installed in advance (illegal as that would be), because I am too lazy / inept to do that all myself.
Error Macro
Member
Oh man. I just hooked up my N64 to my 32" JVC D-Series (standard def) via s-video. It's the first time in about three years since I've played an N64 game. Yes, in fact, it was right before the Gamecube launch that I remember using my N64 last.
Anyway, I popped in Diddy Kong Racing, because that game holds a lot of nostalgic value for me, and I thought it was one of the prettiest games on the system. Oh my. Time has not been so kind to my poor 64-bit cartridge based system.
15 fps. Low res. Jaggies. Low poly count. It really hurt me. I felt sad, in a way. I can only imagine would would happen if I hooked up my Playstation. Lord, I do not want to think about it. I haven't actually tried the N64 on my relatively new HDTV yet. I wonder if the 1080i upconversion would help it out? The scanlines on my standard definition TV were really noticeable and bothersome somewhat playing Diddy Kong.
Oh, but the colors were pretty. And the music was awesome. It's still good today. Catchy tunes. Not bad at all for a cartridge. I played through all of the Snowflake Mountain tracks because it's Winter and I wanted to relive some of that feeling I had when first playing the game.
It's funny, when I played the 4th track on Snowflake Mountain, Frosty Village, I think, I got a heavy sensation of South Park. Yes, that's right. I think it was because I had just started watching the show in late '97, which was also when Diddy Kong came out. Damn, I can't believe it's been seven years already.
Anyway, I popped in Diddy Kong Racing, because that game holds a lot of nostalgic value for me, and I thought it was one of the prettiest games on the system. Oh my. Time has not been so kind to my poor 64-bit cartridge based system.
15 fps. Low res. Jaggies. Low poly count. It really hurt me. I felt sad, in a way. I can only imagine would would happen if I hooked up my Playstation. Lord, I do not want to think about it. I haven't actually tried the N64 on my relatively new HDTV yet. I wonder if the 1080i upconversion would help it out? The scanlines on my standard definition TV were really noticeable and bothersome somewhat playing Diddy Kong.
Oh, but the colors were pretty. And the music was awesome. It's still good today. Catchy tunes. Not bad at all for a cartridge. I played through all of the Snowflake Mountain tracks because it's Winter and I wanted to relive some of that feeling I had when first playing the game.
It's funny, when I played the 4th track on Snowflake Mountain, Frosty Village, I think, I got a heavy sensation of South Park. Yes, that's right. I think it was because I had just started watching the show in late '97, which was also when Diddy Kong came out. Damn, I can't believe it's been seven years already.
jorge13130
Banned
Well I checked Majora's Mask recently and It looks pretty well today
But I checked Xenogears and it sucks, unplayable, terrible framerate, it gave a headache in 3 minutes
But I checked Xenogears and it sucks, unplayable, terrible framerate, it gave a headache in 3 minutes
radios shipping overview
Member
Damn right - filtering those lovely textures destroys them. I like to see every bit of detail (and there is a ton!) when I play that game.Serafitia said:
I never thought of Vagrant Story as a good-looking game, though I played it about a year after its release. The art and environment, though, was immersing.
Both systems had their strengths and weaknesses. As far as graphics overall are concerned, it often came down to what the developer was trying to accomplish and the art style. Like, I thought Conker and MM were great-looking games. Likewise Chrono Cross and others. I've played both systems recently and neither holds up well at all. Both look mostly a mess. I find it difficult to distinguish between them in terms of attraction.
Both systems had their strengths and weaknesses. As far as graphics overall are concerned, it often came down to what the developer was trying to accomplish and the art style. Like, I thought Conker and MM were great-looking games. Likewise Chrono Cross and others. I've played both systems recently and neither holds up well at all. Both look mostly a mess. I find it difficult to distinguish between them in terms of attraction.
CurlySaysX
Banned
radioheadrule83
Banned
The Playstation pushed more polys but it didn't have comparable effects with N64. There are games that look like poo on both systems.
The games that didn't try to do too much and kept a respectable framerate hold up the best IMO. Framerate is the most common thing that urks me about games from that generation.
Games like MGS, FF, Mario 64 etc hold up well in this regard.
The games that didn't try to do too much and kept a respectable framerate hold up the best IMO. Framerate is the most common thing that urks me about games from that generation.
Games like MGS, FF, Mario 64 etc hold up well in this regard.
goodcow said:
Yeah, but they are generally very low poly and bare. The art direction is the only thing that saves it. I really enjoyed the game, but I did not play it until after the release of the DC (took me a while to find it). By that time, it really had not held up and looks much worse than the top games on the last gen systems.
I dunno, I think all platforms last gen have games that hold up well visually. Majora's Mask, Sin & Punishment or Conker for N64. Tobal 2, Vagrant Story or Crash Team Racing on PSX. Panzer Zwei, Last Bronx or Grandia on Saturn. There's good stuff everywhere... N64 may not have as many high end titles or PSX, but it doesn't have nearly as many low end either. I'd say it's actually proportional in good/bad visual quality.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I was playing my Sega Saturn last night. I popped in my Sonic Jam disc and spent some time running around on the 3D World. I thought to myself, "Wow. This 3D still holds up pretty well, even by today's standards. Can you imagine if they made a full-fledged game like this?" And that was a Sega Saturn title. Sometimes I wish they kept Saturn support going a little while longer. I just know it was capable of so much more.
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