I've changed - PSOne visuals hold up better than N64 ones
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SonicMegaDrive
Member
Bauer Action Hour said:
I could add a few others that I consider(or condidered, for it's time) great.
Clockwork Knight 2
Fighters Megamix
Die Hard Arcade
Daytona USA
Sega Rally Championship
Worldwide Soccer
Winter Heat
Magic Knight Rayearth
Galactic Attack
The House of the Dead
Nightwarriors
Saturn Bomberman
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Virtual On
Shining the Holy Ark
Dark Savior
Albert Odyssey
jarrod said:
I heard that Sonic Jam was the test to see how Sonic would work in 3D. Never heard of the RPG though. Why would Sonic Team bother with a Saturn version - surely they must've known the DC was coming? Although the Bi plane levels of Adventure has the Sonic Jam model of Sonic riding on the back so make of that what you will.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I know it has nothing to do with the graphics, but I thought the little Sonic World demo controlled a lot better than Sonic Adventure did. Of course, it wasn't nearly as fast. But I wouldn't mind a slightly slower Sonic game if they implemented a little more precise platforming and puzzle-solving in it.
I think it boils down to what you have a higher tolerance for, blurry or jaggies. I personally *hate* jaggies, they really kill games for me sharpness be damned, so N64 holds up better for me.
Of course from a technical prespective N64 wins, since PSX games could be ported faithfully (Note RE2), while Zelda would not have been possible on the PSX.
Of course from a technical prespective N64 wins, since PSX games could be ported faithfully (Note RE2), while Zelda would not have been possible on the PSX.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Parasite Eve 2 & Einhander are the best looking PSX games!
Plus many other Square RPG's (FF8, FF9, Vagrant Story, Saga Frontier 2, Final Fantasy Tactics etc)
Plus many other Square RPG's (FF8, FF9, Vagrant Story, Saga Frontier 2, Final Fantasy Tactics etc)
Crazymoogle
Member
Panajev2001a said:
Yeah, the RDRAM latency was shit. Every day I'd get to hear about situations in which the CPU was just sitting around doing jack squat because it would take a dozen cycles for the memory to catch up. Failed cache hits, memory streams...not even the sound could benefit. We successfully obtained some fairly substantial microcode documentation and still couldn't do much about it.
I honestly can't remember if we had alpha blending going on. 4k textures was bad enough as it is, and our level design pretty much forced the full use of a z-buffer (to be honest I would have settled for a half-assed, FM3 style interpretation otherwise) but for whatever reason the framerate kept at a pretty solid 30 (rare cases 60). The RAM pack probably would have given us the room to load up a lot of really extravagant textures if the texture cache was big enough (and fast enough) to handle it.
In retrospect it's pretty depressing how little the DD added to the system. Storage was the last thing we needed.
Personally, I enjoyed the PSOne's graphics more than the N64. I couldn't stand all of that blurry / anti aliasing on the N64.
I mentioned this in some other thread, but I booted up a few PS1 games a few weeks ago and couldn't believe how ugly Toshinden looked.
Tekken 3 still holds up pretty well though, some amazing programming getting done there.
And I'm surprised noone's mentioned Omega Boost. That game was absolutely stunning! Go Polyphony!
(Badass cover art also)
I mentioned this in some other thread, but I booted up a few PS1 games a few weeks ago and couldn't believe how ugly Toshinden looked.
Tekken 3 still holds up pretty well though, some amazing programming getting done there.
And I'm surprised noone's mentioned Omega Boost. That game was absolutely stunning! Go Polyphony!
(Badass cover art also)
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Saturnman said:
I second that.
I remember Fighters megamix looking pretty swank on SS It was one of those games that looked much better in motion than in screens because I remember it used a lot of animations and imported moves from VF3.
But on the other hand, what was seen as a tour de force back then like Sega rally Championship doesn't look quite right today.. even in the "old gen" context... I saw it running on a small videogame store TV like 2-3 years back, boy did that one not age well. Gran Turismo looked like a 19 year old in a bikini next to it.
But on the other hand, what was seen as a tour de force back then like Sega rally Championship doesn't look quite right today.. even in the "old gen" context... I saw it running on a small videogame store TV like 2-3 years back, boy did that one not age well. Gran Turismo looked like a 19 year old in a bikini next to it.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
True. Graphics come in second in my book. I know it looks like total shit these days, but nothing beats a quick race of Daytona USA. 
Doom_Bringer
Banned
If you play PSX and N64 games on emulator they look incredible! For example:
PSX
N64
PSX
N64
Amir0x said:
All it needs is a vibrator to make the experience of acquiring another generic family car complete. That game is all about cars and you have to give the player a little joy before he has to race the same courses against opponents with no AI whatsoever and win pointless licenses for the next few hours.
mr2mike said:
Yeah, I mean, there were N64 games with full voice acting...but MGS has a whole lot more of it than most games around. Plus, I don't think they could replicate the music without recording it (even though it was not pre-recorded digital music on PSX).
The real shame is that most of the N64 developers (even high profile ones) thought that 15-20 FPS was an acceptable framerate. That's what makes a lot of those games unbearable to play now. Yeah, you can post some nice looking screenshots but actually having to chug through that shit was and is awful.
Most of the "big" PSX releases seemed to have stable framerates, at the very least. It also got its fair share of free-roaming platformers, though none of them really measured up to Mario 64. But then, chugging through Rare's derivative low-FPS collect-a-thons wasn't so great either.
Most of the "big" PSX releases seemed to have stable framerates, at the very least. It also got its fair share of free-roaming platformers, though none of them really measured up to Mario 64. But then, chugging through Rare's derivative low-FPS collect-a-thons wasn't so great either.
Warm Machine
Member
It really worked somewhat like this...
PS1
Could do around 3500 textured polys per frame at 30fps at a resolution of 512x240. Unfortunately the polys the machine drew were almost the worst of any of the systems out there. The texture correction was the worst, seaming could be really bad, and polys would dissapear when turned on edge also you could not tile a texture across the surface of a polygon. What was good though was that alpha translucency worked extremely well. The 1 meg (or 1.5 I can't rememeber) of VRAM was quite good for the time.
Of course, when emulated on a PC now the games look better because everything was built with more polys and the poly drawing issues pretty much dissapear.
N64
Could do maybe 1800 textured polys at 30fps at 320x240. Certainly drew the most modern polys out there. Texture correction to stop warping, texture filtering to stop pixelization, z-buffer to allow cut throughs and long draw distances, mip mapping to stop texture moray at a distance, texture tiling, etc.
Cartridge actually made sense for the system spec but not its customers, developers, publishers, or its impression as a modern machine. Beyond that the low low fill rate and a lower V-RAM was the thorn in its side. Some game genres such as 1 on 1 fighting games just couldn't be done justice on it.
NHL 99 actually ran in a high res mode and a good framerate without the ram cart.
When emulated now you are only really gaining framerate and resolution to the image, nothing is really being added to make the title look more current.
Saturn
Could do maybe 2000 textured polys at 30 fps at 320x240. Drew the 2nd best polys. If I remember properly the machine drew quads instead of tris. Quads made the texture correction look a little better, seaming wasn't as much as issue, polys would not dissapear when turned on edge. Could not do translucency on a polygon basis, gourade shading took a extra bit of horsepower.
The savior of the machine were its VDP processors. This may be mixed up but the VDP1 would draw pant loads of 3D sprites and the VDP 2 could draw solid infinite planes (much like SNES mode 7) or backgrounds. Nights is a good example of the VDPs working overtime. The characters, their trail, and terrain are using the main geometry processor and all the enemies, rings, and other camera relative effects are using the VDP1. The VDP 2 was used for the far background, or in the case of boss battles, the floor. In sports games, the VDP 2 was used to draw the field so the polys could be put into the characters and stadiums.
The problem came from both its lack of upfront horsepower and the difficulty in getting all the chips to talk to one another.
In the end it all came down to the sort of games the developer wanted to make.
N64: Large scale environments.
PSX: Close combat or room based games, or racers with twisty tracks.
Saturn: Mixture of the 2 above but designed around a flat floor.
Had the N64 had more polypushing horsepower it would have steamrolled the two others. If the PSX just had a decent Z-buffer it would have produced some really incredible large scale games
PS1
Could do around 3500 textured polys per frame at 30fps at a resolution of 512x240. Unfortunately the polys the machine drew were almost the worst of any of the systems out there. The texture correction was the worst, seaming could be really bad, and polys would dissapear when turned on edge also you could not tile a texture across the surface of a polygon. What was good though was that alpha translucency worked extremely well. The 1 meg (or 1.5 I can't rememeber) of VRAM was quite good for the time.
Of course, when emulated on a PC now the games look better because everything was built with more polys and the poly drawing issues pretty much dissapear.
N64
Could do maybe 1800 textured polys at 30fps at 320x240. Certainly drew the most modern polys out there. Texture correction to stop warping, texture filtering to stop pixelization, z-buffer to allow cut throughs and long draw distances, mip mapping to stop texture moray at a distance, texture tiling, etc.
Cartridge actually made sense for the system spec but not its customers, developers, publishers, or its impression as a modern machine. Beyond that the low low fill rate and a lower V-RAM was the thorn in its side. Some game genres such as 1 on 1 fighting games just couldn't be done justice on it.
NHL 99 actually ran in a high res mode and a good framerate without the ram cart.
When emulated now you are only really gaining framerate and resolution to the image, nothing is really being added to make the title look more current.
Saturn
Could do maybe 2000 textured polys at 30 fps at 320x240. Drew the 2nd best polys. If I remember properly the machine drew quads instead of tris. Quads made the texture correction look a little better, seaming wasn't as much as issue, polys would not dissapear when turned on edge. Could not do translucency on a polygon basis, gourade shading took a extra bit of horsepower.
The savior of the machine were its VDP processors. This may be mixed up but the VDP1 would draw pant loads of 3D sprites and the VDP 2 could draw solid infinite planes (much like SNES mode 7) or backgrounds. Nights is a good example of the VDPs working overtime. The characters, their trail, and terrain are using the main geometry processor and all the enemies, rings, and other camera relative effects are using the VDP1. The VDP 2 was used for the far background, or in the case of boss battles, the floor. In sports games, the VDP 2 was used to draw the field so the polys could be put into the characters and stadiums.
The problem came from both its lack of upfront horsepower and the difficulty in getting all the chips to talk to one another.
In the end it all came down to the sort of games the developer wanted to make.
N64: Large scale environments.
PSX: Close combat or room based games, or racers with twisty tracks.
Saturn: Mixture of the 2 above but designed around a flat floor.
Had the N64 had more polypushing horsepower it would have steamrolled the two others. If the PSX just had a decent Z-buffer it would have produced some really incredible large scale games
AndoCalrissian
Member
If you had asked me back in the day which system had better graphics, I would take one look at Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day and tell you it was the N64. However, today I really do appreciate the sharpness of certain PSOne games, and I do prefer Mario 64 DS's graphics (thank God they desaturated it a bit) to the original's.
FeedMeAStrayCat
Member
There's no question in my mind that the N64 had more power and better graphics overall than the PSOne. Games like Turok 2/Rage Wars/Turok 3, Perfect Dark, Donkey Kong 64, Conker, Zelda, Rogue Squadron, WaveRace's water, and etc. all looked awesome at the time (and some hold up decent till this day). The pixelated mess known as PSOne games were almost unbearablely ugly at times. Thankfully the DS has a smaller screen, so it's not very noticable.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The N64 had only one real problem, the 4 KB Texture Cache, besides the latency of the main RAM.
It was potentially the fastest hardware of the three if it had a better main RAM in terms of latency.
It was potentially the fastest hardware of the three if it had a better main RAM in terms of latency.
carbonbased
Member
Perfect Dark was/is absolutely goergeous, and destroys anything the PS1 could offer. And no, the framerate wasn't really an issue in single player or multiplayer with 4-6 players/bots. Coop though, what a mess. :lol
Blackcherry
Member
MoxManiac said:Saturn did what PSOne couldn't:
everbody in my school wanted a saturn because of this. ol' good time
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
World Driver Championship
Shadowman
Banjo-Kazooie
All-Star Baseball 2000
Turok: Rage Wars
Top Gear Overdrive
I think those are great examples of how much better some N64 games looked over the PSX. Sharp resolution and good framerates, tons of geometry on screen (for pre-DC).
Shadowman
Banjo-Kazooie
All-Star Baseball 2000
Turok: Rage Wars
Top Gear Overdrive
I think those are great examples of how much better some N64 games looked over the PSX. Sharp resolution and good framerates, tons of geometry on screen (for pre-DC).
Saturnman said:All it needs is a vibrator to make the experience of acquiring another generic family car complete. That game is all about cars and you have to give the player a little joy before he has to race the same courses against opponents with no AI whatsoever and win pointless licenses for the next few hours.
Although I agree with you that the one flaw GT had was its underwhelming AI, GT4 apparantely has completely overhauled AI.
Anyway, the game is as close to perfection as possible without the perfect AI.
Doom_Bringer said:If you play PSX and N64 games on emulator they look incredible! For example:
PSX
N64
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Aizu_Itsuko
Member
Rehosted... and Happy New Year everyone!Doom_Bringer said:If you play PSX and N64 games on emulator they look incredible! For example:
PSX
N64
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