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[Patrick Klepek]

i missed out on the mass discussion when the book was originally released, but because i dicked around with finishing wizard and glass, it took me a while to catch up. however, this evening i pushed through the last few hundred pages of the seventh entry in the series, and come away completely depressed and heartbroken.

it was a fitting ending, i thought. i almost wished king hadn't told us what was in the tower, instead letting us wonder what roland might or might no thave discovered. instead, what we're given isn't anything shocking or extraordinary, but simply fitting. it weaves together what the rest of the series was striving for, without falling into the trap of pretenciousness and arrogance.

i agree with many of the comments made in the original thread: what a series of anti-climatic battles. mordred is supposed to be this extreme bad ass spider creature, and he goes out in a whimper. i don't care if he ate poisoned meat; there should have been at least one epic struggle before roland reached the tower. the crimson king, for all his hyped bad assness, turned out to be nothing but a failed magician tossing and turning in a maze of smoke and mirrors. terribly disappointing.

most of all, however, i'm sad that it's finally over. roland reached his goal (mostly), and there are no more adventures with eddie, susannah, jake, oy and roland. i suppose we might have a side-stories one day, but it won't be the same. it's nice to have conclusion, but it's a bitter one, because the series that has enthralled me for almost two years is finally over.

i look forward to reading all the connected stories now, though

here's my personal ranking:

1. The Wastelands
2. The Drawing of the Three
3. The Dark Tower
4. The Wolves of the Calla
5. Wizard and Glass
6. The Gunslinger
7. Song of Susannah (i'd rank it lower if i could)

 

[boredJonathan]

Completely agree. It was a fitting end to the series, and it thankfully did keep it from going off into the land of pretenciousness and arrogance. To me the ending felt alot like reading one of the many books of King's that tie into these stories. The click. They felt right.

In fact, the majority of the works that tie into the series, you know are heading that way long before something officially pops up and makes it obvious. Something in the tone of the writting, or maybe it's just me being crazy and reading into small hints. At any rate, you should definately go back and read through the books that tie into this series as alot of them really do flesh out things and are great reads.

As for the Anti-climaxes.. for me, nothing personally will make up for the fact that Randall Flagg, bad ass of many worlds, was killed off so very easily and given so very little due in the last book. There should have been a battle to end all battles between Roland and Walter O'Dimm. I could have overlooked every other anti-climax like that if that one had attempted to live up to what had been building up in my head. The Crimson King, Mordred, all of it could be forgiven for one truly good battle between them. But alas... It wasn't in the cards.


Can't imagine how I would rank the books, but if you are looking for a good place to start on the connected stories I would say Insomnia is a great place to start. Deals very heavily with the Tower, and despite the books length, is one of the quickest reads out there. I would probably go to Hearts in Atlantis next, and then onto some of the short stories that tie in more. (Such as Everything's Eventual, and Little Sisters of Eluria) There are of course the big staples such as the Stand and the Shining that tie in, but those books don't call back to the Tower as much, and the connections to them seem to be stemming from the core books back out.

Finally, take my advice and skip out on Rose Madder. Read through one of the many sysnopsis online and just move on. I was very dissapointed in that book and so much of it was calling back but it did so little with it... Argh.. I can't even express what a waste of time I thought that book was.

Oh well, I'm done ranting.

EDIT:Oh, and I'd fucking kill for your tag, BTW.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

i wish the poster of my avatar wasn't so god damned expensive.

 

[boredJonathan]

Red Mercury
dinh of a broken ka-tet

It's like christmas has come early!!!

And agreed on the posters. They are very expensive, but I had/have the best girlfriend ever and back when the short story collection of Legends was coming out in Paperback I made some comment about how the front cover art for the Dark Tower was perhaps my favorite thing ever and I'd kill for some poster of it.

I didn't really even think that those kinds of prints could be found, I was more thinking about getting like a nice quality enlargement or something like that. But she apparently knew better than me, and for Christmas a few years back she got me this -

(Note this is a picture from the site, as the room that this is currently hanging in is "Off Limits' do to Christmas wrapping going on in there. Later today I'll grab an actual shot.)

Oh, and yes it looks as cool in person as you would think.

I'm sure you have, but just in case you havn't, you should check out some of Michael Whelan's other work. He's done some seriously cool things, as both Book 1 and Book 7 illustrate.

 

[maharg]

I think Stephen King has certain limitations on his abilities as a writer that even in his so called magnum opus he can't overcome. None of his books that I can recall have featured a real epic battle. It always comes down to taking the great evil, the thing we as readers are supposed to be so scared of, and humanizing it to the point of humiliation. He sees this as being the most powerful weapon that can be used on true evil.

You can see that in IT, you can see it in Insomnia, and in the end, you can see it in The Dark Tower. The epic one-on-one battle just never happens, because in King's world, evil is weak and fearful, but tricky.

Mind you, normal humans (the gangsters in New York) or human-like things (the robots in Calla, the Low Men, the Vampires) fight to the death, and those battles are always quite epic and powerful. But they happen in groups because humans always feel strongest in groups.

So really the weaknesses of Mordred, Walter, and then The Crimson King should be expected. I think the thing that is unforgivable is that he allowed all their ends to wait until the last book. Piling their failures as villains into the last minute made this feel like even more of a let down than it should have. Especially with the IT-like creature, which was more tricky than any of the three primary villains of the novel, mixed in.

But the ending was definitely right. And it's amazing how big an effect the warning not to continue had on me. I had imagined, before hand, some people not finishing just because they've waited so long and couldn't stand to. It was like he read my mind at the end there. Almost predicting the disappointment many may feel to find that this is not, really, the end of the story. Just a new beginning.

 

[nitewulf]

I think Stephen King has certain limitations on his abilities as a writer that even in his so called magnum opus he can't overcome. None of his books that I can recall have featured a real epic battle. It always comes down to taking the great evil, the thing we as readers are supposed to be so scared of, and humanizing it to the point of humiliation. He sees this as being the most powerful weapon that can be used on true evil.

yes agreed. actually i haven't read anything else by him, but while reading book 7, specially the battle sequences i realized that king doesn't have the knack to write a prolonged epic action sequence.

he should have asked help from another author IMO, i dont know how feasible that is...but at least one epic battle sequence would have made the last novel a lot better.

all of the battles/encounters in the series were over fairly quickly, it were the set-ups and strategies that were described in detail, along with the emotions of the characters. he writes that stuff very well.

ironically the most exciting fight was the ambush agaisnt the mafia in "the drawing of the three", against humans.

still, i enjoyed book 7 a lot, and the series remains a personal favorite.

exxy, now check out "little sisters of eluria" from "legends". its a side story that got me to read the series in the first place. its fantastic. i loved the artwork from it so much, that my sister in law actually painted me teh cover. i didnt have to buy it.

 

[boredJonathan]

ironically the most exciting fight was the ambush agaisnt the mafia in "the drawing of the three", against humans.

Agreed. I don't know if I would call it ironic though, as I think it was pretty well established that Eddie's version of the mafia was tied up into the whole Dark Tower as well. Even if they didn't know who they were excatly working for, their actions serviced the Crimson King quite well.

But the point still stands, that fight was probably the best battle sequence in the series. The stand against the Wolves was also pretty good, but it seemed to be over largely before it had begun. While that may have been the point King was trying to make, as I seem to remember alot of talk about how there will be all this planning for 5 minutes of violence and noise.

The fight against the Big Coffin Hunters and the men of Farson in Wizard and Glass was also largely all done in stealth. It was a great sequence, but it was not an epic battle.

Hmm.. there are only two battles that I think come close, if not are as good as the battle against the mafia. The attack on Algul Siento was pretty damn cool, and definately played out pretty well, as it was the gunslingers against a larger group. I would also say that the battle against Blaine, while not an action sequence in the normal sense played out very well.

And damnit, I just found out that Whelan is selling prints of the Crimson King from DT7. Damnit.... That would look so cool on an opposing wall from the print I already have.

 

[maharg]

yes agreed. actually i haven't read anything else by him, but while reading book 7, specially the battle sequences i realized that king doesn't have the knack to write a prolonged epic action sequence.

Well no, I wouldn't and didn't say that. He is clearly capable of it (as there have been several really 'epic' battles in this series alone, and it begins with an echo of an epic battle of the past), but he also doesn't ever do it for the truly evil things in his creations. It's not a lack of knack, it's just that it doesn't make sense to him to have Roland gunsling with the Crimson King or Walter. And really, it doesn't make any sense. Roland can fight with humans or semihumans, but he can't really fight these evil beings. They're on another level from him.

So they have to be pulled down first. And then what's left but to have them die like any other human? And they die far more humiliating deaths than the normal people in the stories, good or bad. Mordred died from HORSE MEAT. Tell me what bad guy in the whole series was so thoroughly brought down to a human level as that. Walter's arrogance was his downfall, as if you think of it, it must have been. It should have killed him in Roland's time, really.

I think it's just jarring that he did it three times in one book. But I think it was Right.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

would there really be an epic battle with only two guns? I dunno, I'm just not seeing it. The battle of the breakers was pretty intense but there were lots of people. I don't think "epic" and "one-on-one" go together unless you're either DragonBall Z or The Matrix Revolutions.

 

[nitewulf]

would there really be an epic battle with only two guns? I dunno, I'm just not seeing it.

thats just it. i dont see it either, i mentioned this in my original review in the old thread. the fact that the heroes are gunslingers itself is a shortcoming (if you wanna look at it that way).

it's easier for jordan to wax poetic about two warriors clashing blades while the rain falls softly, and the battle flows like water, and the warriors perform eleaborate techniques, silhouetted by the setting sun..

yes agreed. actually i haven't read anything else by him, but while reading book 7, specially the battle sequences i realized that king doesn't have the knack to write a prolonged epic action sequence.

sorry maharg, bad wording. what i really meant was what you mentioned, specifically "one on one" boss battle sequence.

as obviously there were many epic action sequences, my favorite being the one in wizard and glass against the outlaws. the whole of wolves of the calla is pretty much an elaborate battle setup, which was great as well. its just that i knew he was paying an homage to seven samurai/magnificent seven and it just didnt seem very innovative to me, albeit enjoyable.

i understand what you're saying in general about the three main villains, but at the end its still unsatisfactory to me. yes, he completely humiliated them. and i see the need for him to take down the villains a few levels where they just didnt seem that evil anymore. they seemd weak and vulnerable, and hell perhaps we even sympathized with them a bit.

but the buildup towards them was too overwhelming, too ominous. he created a lot of suspence, he made the villains seem too powerful. so their quick deaths/dispersal became very anticlimactic.

Hmm.. there are only two battles that I think come close, if not are as good as the battle against the mafia. The attack on Algul Siento was pretty damn cool, and definately played out pretty well, as it was the gunslingers against a larger group. I would also say that the battle against Blaine, while not an action sequence in the normal sense played out very well.

that battle was great as well. but my main point was, when the shooting starts, its over in a few seconds. the setups are great and elaborate, but the shootouts are short in general, and of course, they have to be, by default. because out heroes are the best of the best. and with guns, you either shoot, or you get shot. and battle against blaine was fantastic as well, in a different way.

IMO his strengths lie in character development, descriptive imagery, and writing in general. i read few authors who write/wrote as poetically as he does.

 

[maharg]

Personally my favorite battle, keeping in mind that I haven't read any of the books between The Gunslinger and Wolves of the Calla in almost ten years, was when Jake and Callahan fought through the restaraunt full of Low Men and Vampires. There was a sense of desperation to that fight that was very powerful to me.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I couldn't agree with you guys more. King is the...king of great build ups and anti-climaxes. If any of you haven't read The Stand, go get it. If you're anything like me, you'll find the first 3/4 of the book fascinating, and you'll be all ready to put this down as one of the best books you've ever read...and then the anti-climax begins. It's still a great, great book though.

Personally I think it's obvious why this happens with King. You just have to read his notes before or after his books, particularly those of The Dark Tower series. He doesn't feel like he's in control of his writing, he rarely has a destination in mind (though he sometimes thinks he does and he ends up somewhere else entirely), he almost feels that he is just a conduit for a story to be told through. So he's setting up these characters as epic foes and extremely dangerous from the beginning, because he fully expects that in time it'll go that way, even though he doesn't know how. When he gets to these concluding parts of the story and he finds he doesn't have the epic battle he thought he was going to discover...well, it's too late now, the other books have been written (though I don't actually think he cares that he's set up something epic that he can't follow through on as it happens in his stand alone books too, where he could go back and edit).

Even though King tells us straight out that he writes like this, I often feel I can hear his voice talking to us, the constant readers, through his characters. It happens in The Stand, though I won't say when as it'd be a major spoiler, but in The Dark Tower it jumped out at me too. Back in Wizard and Glass, Roland tells his ka-tet the story of Susan and the rest. At one point though, Roland specifically says something like, "This is a story I never thought I'd tell" and I can't get past the certainty that this is King telling us that he never thought he'd be telling Roland's background in full, but here it is.

It saddens me that, for me at least, by far the best story told in The Dark Tower series was that flashback to Roland's youth. That might in fact be the best story King's ever told. And for once, such a satisfying, if heartbreaking, conclusion.

Personally my favorite battle, keeping in mind that I haven't read any of the books between The Gunslinger and Wolves of the Calla in almost ten years, was when Jake and Callahan fought through the restaraunt full of Low Men and Vampires. There was a sense of desperation to that fight that was very powerful to me.

That was actually a pretty decent battle. But once again, it was overwhelmed by the fantastic set up. The way it was set up, from Jake and Callahan sent there accidentaly when it should have been Roland and Eddie, through to them both ready to go in knowing they're going to die, then just the way he ends that book with them slamming through the door and leaving us on the cliffhanger...oh man, what a build up.

EDIT: Oh I'll tell you what I don't like about King's writing. The way he tells you what's going to happen. I mean, he basically says "someone's about to die guys". It drives me insane! I suppose it's meant to make me dread it more, but it doesn't, it just sort of protects me from the emotional impact of it. Eddie's death would have just been so much better (in terms of shock and emotional impact) if he hadn't made it ridiculously clear that someone was about to be taken out.

 

[Vlad]

EDIT: Oh I'll tell you what I don't like about King's writing. The way he tells you what's going to happen. I mean, he basically says "someone's about to die guys". It drives me insane! I suppose it's meant to make me dread it more, but it doesn't, it just sort of protects me from the emotional impact of it. Eddie's death would have just been so much better (in terms of shock and emotional impact) if he hadn't made it ridiculously clear that someone was about to be taken out.

I just finished the last book yesterday, and I was thinking the exact same thing. It wouldn't have been so bad in moderation, but he kept doing it over and over, especially in DT7. There was just way too much "as he would regret later" type stuff. A little foreshadowing is good, but when it's done for every major even in a book, then it loses its punch.

 

[Azala]

Agreed, every time he foreshadowed I'd end up shouting "You bastard!" right at the book. He goes way overboard on it to the point it detracts from and ruins part of the story.

Overall I still enjoy the series, but I haven't been won over by the ending. It felt weak on a few levels. I'd love a followup story that answered some of the remaining questions, tied up one of the many loose ends, and provided even more back story. But I highly doubt that will be coming any time soon, if ever, and if it does, I don't think King will be able to deliver. Don't get me wrong, I'm still a huge fan, but I've never deemed his work as masterpiece material. It's full of holes and letdowns, which to me was a large part of the charm.

 

[Drey1082]

Just finished the last book yesterday....

Wow, great series. I thought the last book was amazing. Reading through this thread, I see a lot of the complaints and criticisms of King's writing, and I agree they are valid, but wow, that last book had my attention the whole way through. So many good moments in that book. It might not be the best book in the series (could be for me just because it was the most recent), but right now I'd put it at the top.

Rankings:

1) The Dark Tower
2) Wizard and Glass
3) Drawing of the Three
4) The Wastelands
5) Song of Susanna
6) The Gunslinger
7) Wolves of the Calla