So what would be the right thing to say?
"We will magically increase the processing power of the Wii U, make it cheaper, and still sell it at a profit."
Iwata on third parties, hundreds of inquiries since GDC about Nintendo Web Framework
- Thread starter Hobby
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So what would be the right thing to say?
"We will magically increase the processing power of the Wii U, make it cheaper, and still sell it at a profit."
My words exactly!
Member
Some thoughts:
While 3rd party support is indeed vital to any console, Nintendo is far less reliant on it, compared to the other two. N's success is primarily on the strength (or lack there of) of the games it provides. 3rd party support is... well, supportive to that, prolonging the life of the system. SNES and the DS are a testament to that.
However due to its' limited workforce (they are expanding now and for the last couple of years though...), the transition period to the U, as well as the need to supply the 3DS in the same timeframe they haven't been able yet, to give a lot of meaningful 1st party support. Another big reason is their obsessions but that's another talk altogether.
IMHO and i've said it before, Nintendo has to CREATE an audience for these kinds of games by providing similar content itself. I mean there's loads of cheap talent available in the West Retro growing and Next Level Games, NST etc. are fine and all, but they need to make a team, to develop western oriented content like a WRPG, a competitive fps, a realistic racer etc. If those are successes, then it will be proven that there is an audience for those types of games on the system and 3rd parties will be more open to the idea of giving the U similar games.
All in all it's not impossible, I mean look where they were at the indie front 2 years ago and now they are though of as the most indie friendly of the big 3. Moreover, 3rd parties are facing increasing difficulties, desperately seeking new ''business models'' and ways to suck more cash by the hardcore. They would port their high budget games across the board.
While 3rd party support is indeed vital to any console, Nintendo is far less reliant on it, compared to the other two. N's success is primarily on the strength (or lack there of) of the games it provides. 3rd party support is... well, supportive to that, prolonging the life of the system. SNES and the DS are a testament to that.
However due to its' limited workforce (they are expanding now and for the last couple of years though...), the transition period to the U, as well as the need to supply the 3DS in the same timeframe they haven't been able yet, to give a lot of meaningful 1st party support. Another big reason is their obsessions but that's another talk altogether.
IMHO and i've said it before, Nintendo has to CREATE an audience for these kinds of games by providing similar content itself. I mean there's loads of cheap talent available in the West Retro growing and Next Level Games, NST etc. are fine and all, but they need to make a team, to develop western oriented content like a WRPG, a competitive fps, a realistic racer etc. If those are successes, then it will be proven that there is an audience for those types of games on the system and 3rd parties will be more open to the idea of giving the U similar games.
All in all it's not impossible, I mean look where they were at the indie front 2 years ago and now they are though of as the most indie friendly of the big 3. Moreover, 3rd parties are facing increasing difficulties, desperately seeking new ''business models'' and ways to suck more cash by the hardcore. They would port their high budget games across the board.
Mithos
Member
NO the game was not in development 6 months longer, the Wii U version was started on AFTER the other versions were finished. Criterion said in an interview that after the finalization of the other versions they took a break and came back after the holiday (whatever holiday there was around that time) and started working on the Wii U version.
This makes it that the Wii U version were made in under 6 months if not even shorter, not 6 months longer development.
disappeared
Banned
"We promise guys, there's more stuff on the way!"
We've been hearing this shit since the Gamecube.
We've been hearing this shit since the Gamecube.
Yeah that wouldn't hurt. They also have the choice of doing what they did with Bayonetta 2 in west (and I hope the collobrations talk include this). Psychonauts 2 funded by Nintendo developed by Double Fine exclusively for Wii U? That's one game that certainly isn't lining up publishers.
Last time we heard that with 3DS. How did that turn out?
As long as it holds the title of most powerful games console in the world it's not under powered.
So relative to what is out there on the market.
And I'm arguing that good art styles are good, no matter the definition. Wind Waker will always look good - hell, I'm playing Another Code: R on an HDTV and it still looks stunning. Certain types of art can be made within limitations and look good. More power doesn't guarantee prettier games.
Uh, yeah it does. Any 3D game would look better at higher resolutions and with better image quality.
You're talking about straight ports which recycle the same art assets right?
DragonSworne
Banned
Kameo on Xbox 360 looked pretty much the same on when it was on Xbox...
And since the GC, they have released at least four new major systems and a shitload of games. I don't see your point?
The smartest developers are going to target everything feasible under the sun. And thanks to Nintendo's policies, cheap devkits, free middleware, and especially the GamePad, the Wii U is an extremely viable platform. Even more so right now, as there's little competition.
Why is the GamePad so important? Because it enables devs to bring pretty much everything to the system with little to no compromises. It doesn't matter if a game was designed around controllers, touch or mouse and keyboard, chances are the Wii U can handle whatever interface and input style your game requires.
Dictator93
Member
So now low powered systems are a matter of opinion and not relative fact in comparison to other systems?
What kind of kool aid are people supporting Iwata drinking?
Nothing like fitting those 2006 era GFX tech on to a GPU which struggles to get 720p at 30fps while simultaneously having a worse CPU than the 360! Oh, whilst also sharing 1GB of RAM! Its 2006 all over again everyone! YAY! Arent you devs excited to have almost the exact same situation you have had for more than half a decade?
That must make it a blast for 3rd party devs! Surely it is just an opinion this thing lacks power, just look at those slightly higher detailed textures in a number of games! Who cares about the other examples of games running noticeably worse (just go to any digital foundry page). The console is obviously peanuts easy to get games running on that look and run equivalent to consoles designed in 2004 and 2005!
What kind of kool aid are people supporting Iwata drinking?
Nothing like fitting those 2006 era GFX tech on to a GPU which struggles to get 720p at 30fps while simultaneously having a worse CPU than the 360! Oh, whilst also sharing 1GB of RAM! Its 2006 all over again everyone! YAY! Arent you devs excited to have almost the exact same situation you have had for more than half a decade?
That must make it a blast for 3rd party devs! Surely it is just an opinion this thing lacks power, just look at those slightly higher detailed textures in a number of games! Who cares about the other examples of games running noticeably worse (just go to any digital foundry page). The console is obviously peanuts easy to get games running on that look and run equivalent to consoles designed in 2004 and 2005!
Rush2thestart
Member
That comment makes me laugh considering Kameo was originally scheduled to be an N64 game.
No it didn't. The only thing similar was the art style. But the amount of enemies/objects/effects on screen and the sheer amount of foliage/vegetation etc was several orders of magnitude above what we saw on the Xbox.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
"We're actively laser precision targeting high profile third parties we feel are key to WiiU's success"
"We've established a studio/studios to port games and thus be published by Nintendo" much in the same way Microsoft created the port of Minecraft which I hear HAS BEEN PRETTY SUCCESSFUL for them.
"We've established a talented tech outreach unit to help and advise developers through any problems with the WiiU's unconventional structure" like Sony did for the PS3.
vs
"Maybe something will just suddenly explode in popularity?"
Dictator93
Member
It is actually this, "Maybe something will just suddenly explode in popularity because they just don't understand how good it is."
I didn't want to believe this but reading that statement from Iwata, one could say he is salty.
darkistheway
Member
Actually, I am pretty sure Nintendo intends for their first party offerings to be the system sellers. When was the last time a third party game sold a Nintendo console? Never?
When was the last time a Nintendo game sold a Nintendo console? Oh right, everytime.
Ports don't sell consoles, exclusives do.
so now we're back to "we don't need third party games anyways"
maquiladora
Member
Wow...
Yes, that was the third comment in this thread.
I guess you've never heard of Nintendo SDSG (Software Development Support Group)?
Also, Nintendo doesn't seem to consider ports and chasing trends a "key to success". In fact, going by what Iwata said earlier, they don't want Minecraft - they want the next Minecraft. And whatever that might be, it's unlikely to be AAA and even more unlikely to come from one of the big, established publishers. That's the main reason they're lowering the barrier for indie developers.
darkistheway
Member
Well, they don't need the same third party games that Microsoft and Sony get. Nintendo works for a complete different market - am I the only one who gets this? If third party publisher brought exclusive games that catered to the Nintendo market they would do very well - Ubisoft and Activision figured this out with the Wii.
shinra-bansho
Member
Yay, someone else gets it. I'd say it goes beyond just making games in these genres and for these audiences though. Brand, marketing and position of the system towards attracting such audiences is also essential.
Maybe something like "We understand the reluctance of third parties with the Wii U. In the past we haven't made proper attempt to cultivate an audience for such titles within our system installed base. But we will endeavor to create an environment where third party titles can succeed."
Of course, it would be good to actually do this and not just let it be lip service.
Call of Duty, FIFA and Madden sell plenty of systems.
Fair enough, but the Wii U needs system sellers, so the Minecraft situation is hardly applicable here. Bringing a successful game to a system with a huge userbase is not the same as helping carry a struggling platform to popularity.
Also, your third point would be more important if people were trying to bring their games to Wii U, but struggling with the minutiae of development. Problem is, they're not even trying.
I like your first proposal though.
Angel Whispers
Member
Launch software that WASN'T MADE ON FINAL KITS.
But he's a known troll in denial, a Brera without the exclamation marks, if you will. It's easier to block his noise.
halo and gears of war built that fanbase first. just dance probably sold a ton of wiis, but would there be quite the strong connection with that franchise without wii fit? i don't think so.
Not Nintendo systems. Though that's probably mostly peer pressure when it comes to games with a heavy online focus. If you're buying a system for one of those games, you're going to buy the system your friends own.
shinra-bansho
Member
Do you mean on the original XBOX, or the 360? COD preceded the first Halo game on it didn't it, although that was an exclusive I guess. I don't really get how they built the fanbase on the PS3 though.
Although, I don't really disagree that platform holders set the tone of their system and are ultimately responsible for cultivating an audience for games on them. I didn't say exclusives don't sell systems.
Instead of releasing one or two games every month, Nintendo is going to save them all up and push it all out starting in the summer (first with Pikmin 3). If go with a price drop, then the system will feel like a relaunch.
Releasing 1-2 games now or spreading them apart will only send that software to die. Look at Lego City Undercover, it barely did anything at all to the console sale. Because it was released at a time when the system is not selling. Should have combined force with a bunch of other promotion and game releases.
The DS revived after first 6 months drought until Advance Wars, Kirby Canvas Curse, Meteos, Brain Age, Nintendogs etc all came out around the same time. Suddenly the system became a hit again. 3DS was the same last year with Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, and combined with a bunch of others to ignite the systems.
Releasing 1-2 games now or spreading them apart will only send that software to die. Look at Lego City Undercover, it barely did anything at all to the console sale. Because it was released at a time when the system is not selling. Should have combined force with a bunch of other promotion and game releases.
The DS revived after first 6 months drought until Advance Wars, Kirby Canvas Curse, Meteos, Brain Age, Nintendogs etc all came out around the same time. Suddenly the system became a hit again. 3DS was the same last year with Kid Icarus, Resident Evil, and combined with a bunch of others to ignite the systems.
Because PS3 fans and 360 fans have more or less the same taste. They were "HD Twins" in more than games and tech. When people say "we don't need 3 consoles doing the same thing," they are more or less saying Nintendo shouldn't go after the same market & demographic.
It is going to be smash bros. I do not know what it is about smash bros, but they always look quite nice. Espically the last one, which still is one of the best if not the best looking game on the wii.
So I am imagining that smash bros crew will breaking out their wizard contracts to make it look like a ps4 game.
( clearly this is somwhat exaggeration, but I feel someone will not get that)
shinra-bansho
Member
I think you misunderstood, I was saying I don't see how Halo and Gears built a fanbase for COD on the PS3.
What you're saying is fine - Nintendo's free to march by the beat of their own drum. But they shouldn't expect the rest of the industry to change its cadence.
Magicpaint
Member
Iwata thought people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Wii and PS360 games on SDTVs.
And lol @ if we have a bigger userbase the third parties will come. Keep dreaming, Iwata.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I think the sales are underpowered. By the first few posts, someone misinterpreted what he said. He said he wanted other 3rd parties to succeed and make the 3rd parties who are hesitant to feel jealous. Makes sense. Wii U needs a decent 3rd party seller. Something that will hit over 1 million. Enough for companies to consider it for ports. Where they are right now is unsustainable. But a few good 3rd party sellers will change the tune of a lot of companies.
Well its obvious Killzone and Uncharted built that. Since Nintendo lacks an equivalent of those franchises, it also supports my point.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
darkistheway
Member
I don't really think those titles so much sell plenty of systems as they sell plenty on those systems that cater to the market segment that buys those games.
If Nintendo went crazy and moneyhatted the next COD, they wouldn't sell 10 million systems in two months (or whatever crazy amount COD sells). The market segment that likes those games (twerps?
would move on to another game that caters to their needs. Really the job that Iwata needs to be doing is keeping Skylanders coming to the Wii U, making sure Just Dance keeps selling well on Nintendo consoles, etc., and pushing an increase to the install base so the publishers have a market for their 'Nintendo market' games.
The best way he can do that is to push out first party games.
That depends on Nintendo's. If they planned the same power that the console currently outputs, it's not underpowered. Being underpowered would mean it didn't meet Nintendo's requirements for what it needs to do.
It's powered exactly as planned. If we were going by the definition that "underpowered" consoles are consoles which fail to set a new bar in graphical and processing power, then the PS4/X720 are more than likely to be underpowered since the PC clearly outmatches them already.
It doesn't look like Nintendo wants more multiplats. Going by their web framework and Unity, it wants the smaller developers for games on the eShop and what not.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I am sure there were several great selling third party games on the Wii but that did not help their situation much. It all depends on the third party game that sells so much as to make other third parties jealous; if its something like just dance then core franchises will not move over. Basically it has to be a core gaming franchise that sells well that shows third parties there is such an audience. Even then thats a gross generalisation as a FPS selling well does not imply a racing game will sell well. They also need to change the stigma that nintendo consoles are for nintendo games only that even their fans seem to spout in defence when its clearly a problem.
Nintendo does not need to make it themselves just like Sony and MS did not. They just need a wrpg to sell well to give indication to third parties that there is an audience.
Their practices may be a cancer that needs to be removed, but they're also the ones that will satiate the masses every year, even if it's just COD, Fifa etc.
DragonSworne
Banned
These exact statements are why Iwata is not right for the CEO position.
He as a CEO needs to actively meet and work with CEOs from other companies to make deals and establish partnerships. Expecting developers to suddenly support your system because it reaches an arbitrary threshold is not going to happen.
Iwata is lost and needs to be fired.
He as a CEO needs to actively meet and work with CEOs from other companies to make deals and establish partnerships. Expecting developers to suddenly support your system because it reaches an arbitrary threshold is not going to happen.
Iwata is lost and needs to be fired.
shinra-bansho
Member
I tend to believe consumers go where the game(s) they want go. People who really want GTA aren't going to go looking for alternatives to GTA if Microsoft moneyhats GTAV; if someone wants FIFA and Sony moneyhats it, they're not going to settle for PES (if it remains a poor substitute). Someone who wants COD will get COD, even if they can get Battlefield in its place.I don't really think those titles so much sell plenty of systems as they sell plenty on those systems that cater to the market segment that buys those games.
If Nintendo went crazy and moneyhatted the next COD, they wouldn't sell 10 million systems in two months (or whatever crazy amount COD sells). The market segment that likes those games (twerps?
The audience for such titles essentially split between the 360 and PS3 this gen, from being consolidated on the PS2 mostly last gen.
If Nintendo moneyhatted COD, then people would buy a Wii U for COD. Although the cost would be astronomical and I don't think Nintendo could justify it.
Publishers will keep making "Nintendo market" games, if Nintendo can show them there's still a substantial market for them - things like Disney Interactive's Planes game, etc. But the issue right now is that the Wii U isn't really resonating with the market that built franchises like Just Dance up on the Wii.
It's not about "making a WRPG" it's about cultivating an audience for the AAA games that third parties make. If they want those games that is.
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