Jeff Grubb: It sounds like Sony has probably settled on a State of Play for June (rather than a Showcase)
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bitbydeath
Member
Those games are co-developed by Sony's X-Dev Team. X-Dev are amazing and always a welcome surprise to what they bring.
Hector Hall
Member
The Sony "internal pipeline" narrative recently is fantastic.
When Insomniac developed Ratchet 1/4, Resistance 1/3, Quantic Dream Heavy Rain, Beyond, Detroit Become Human, From Demons Soul and Bloodborne, The Last Guardian finished with Ueda as a freelancer with his new company, The Everybodys Golf games by Clap Hanz, none were internally developed games, and absolutely nobody doubted them as first party games.
Go to the PS5 Gen though, and games have to be published by SIE, internally developed by a WWS, be exclusive, not be MLBA The Show, not being a remaster/remake, totally own the IP and not be a GAAS just to be considered a true first party offering.
And then to show how bad things are we compare to last generations when 2/3 of first party games were under contract by external developer
to begin with
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yurinka
Member
Fixed:
- Insomniac: Wolverine, (in case it was greenlighted) Venom
- Naughty Dog: Intergalactic, unknown single player project(s)
- Bend: open world new IP with live service elements (rumored to be canceled and starting over on new project)
- Bluepoint: it's a support team, never has been the lead dev team of any game
- Sucker Punch: Ghost of Yotei
- Housemarque: Saros
- Guerrilla Games: Horizon Online, Horizon 3
- Santa Monica: project headed by Cory Barlog (rumoured, unknown); new God of War sequel in a new mythology (confirmed), smaller GoW project (rumored)
- Polyphony Digital: Gran Turismo 7 (ongoing support), Gran Turismo 8
- San Diego: MLB The Show (ongoing support / new games)
- LFG: Project Gummy Bears
- Media Molecule: unknown new IP
- Asobi: unknown (probably Astro follow up?)
- Bungie: Marathon, Destiny 2 The Edge of Fate
- Kojima Productions: Death Stranding 2
- Ultizero Games: Lost Soul Aside
- Velan: Midnight Murder Club
- Loong Force: Convallaria
- Firesprite: dark horror narrative adventure
- Haven: Fairgame$
- Aspyr/Saber: Star Wars KOTOR remake
- Dark Outlaw: unknown game (very early stages)
- People Can Fly: unknown game (very early stages)
- Shift Up: Stellar Blade PC port, Stellar Blade 2 (very early stages)
- Nixxes: unknown PC port or remaster
- Bandai Namco: Everybody's Golf Hot Shots, Patapon 1+2 Replay
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Perrott
Member
I'm anticipating the reveals of Until Dawn 2, Horizon Online and the God of War spin-off across both this event as well as Geoff Keighley's Summer Game Fest. I feel that they're all coming within the next six months. Plus, we should also be getting marketing beats for Death Stranding 2, Destiny 2: The Edge of Fate, Lost Soul Aside, Marathon and Ghost of Yotei, which will release over the next three months.
They'll save the big guns for September and The Game Awards. No need to overwhelm the conversation with more game announcements right now.
They'll save the big guns for September and The Game Awards. No need to overwhelm the conversation with more game announcements right now.
nial
Member
Oh, they were a partner studio on God of War Ragnarok doing what they did best; art and engineering. Maybe that's not the case in 2025, but it was absolutely the case in 2020.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
No. Jeff has been spot on lately.His source:
It's june, definitely june, nobody does this in may, it's a june thing, definitely a june thing.
For me, this became an argument only when it became an issue worth highlighting. Sony a) used to invest in smaller internal games more before this generation and b) had a more steady output before this generation. As long as even one of those points is true, this isn't an issue for me. Like if Sony is putting out games at the PS4 cadence this generation, then I don't care as much that they are not doing smaller games, because they have no need to do smaller games, and the larger ones are obviously better investments for them. So I get it in that scenario.
In this scenario, however, Sony's output cadence is fucked, which is something that WOULD be easily fixable with a more diverse development pipeline; THAT is what brings the focus on smaller scoped projects, because it's an easy way to fix this issue, AND it is something Sony themselves have been experts at juggling every single generation before this one.
Sure, but Gravity Rush did. Puppeteer did. Uncharted The Lost Legacy did. Ratchet and Clank 2016 did. Tearaway did. Killzone Mercenaries did. That's the point, Sony put out a lot of smaller scoped games themselves (and yes, they also had a bunch of external partners helping them). Right now? Sony has no smaller scoped games internally except Astro.
They're not though? Rockstar is famously dragged for taking as long on a single game as they do. Bethesda has been mocked relentlessly for this. You mentioned Retro Studios, there was a whole DECADE of concern posting and trolling about that studio and whether or not it was going to be shut down. Games taking too long to come out, and the impact that has on pipeline, is one of the most widely discussed topics across the board. Sony is absolutely not singled out for this.
Santa Monica, Asobi, San Diego, Guerrilla, and especially Insomniac have all done great this generation, Insomniac is practically carrying this generation by itself.
Sucker Punch has taken 5 years to put out a follow up to Ghost, Firesprite has done nothing except a VR spin off, and then we have all the other teams discussed previously, including Media Molecule, Bend, Bluepoint, and of course Naughty Dog. Obviously the lapses in their cadence will be discussed.
Little Chicken
Banned
They've got nothing to show, what are they going to do, have a showcase of Xbox games?
A lot of their single player studios, including bend and bluepoint had been moved onto Gaas games, which have recently been cancelled. They don't actually have all that many studios and most of them have been on now cancelled, or doomed to failure Gaas. The output sadly this gen is gonna be dire. Second party is keeping the cogs turning. But they really need to buy a bunch more studios and stop fucking up the ones they do have. Xbox have about 3 times as many now and seem to be hitting their stride.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
what bothers me more is the cut to single player budgets from 2019 to 2023. in an era when games costs are exploding, they reduced the budgets instead of matching them.That FY25 split
bitbydeath
Member
Looks like they could easily pull a showcase together with all those games coming soon.
bitbydeath
Member
No. People expect to see quality from a Sony conference.
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touchfuzzy
Member
Now that Asobi's game is out and it will be a while before we see what's next, it's time for Media Molecule to hit with a weird whimsical platformer this year. No more player creation stuff, something in the vein of Tearaway. A Tearaway 2 that does all sorts of stuff with the DualSense features wouldn't surprise me at all and they could make a brilliant game.
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touchfuzzy
Member
How is that fixed? He asked what was coming from Sony's first party studios and you add in Bandai Namco?
yurinka
Member
I added many missing upcoming PS Studios games and fixed a few incorrect entries. And yes, including the ones licensed to Bandai Namco.
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nial
Member
Ok, this was a good honest response.
Sony's output of major productions wasn't particularly as high as people make it out to be.
I was talking about the internal vs. external thing.
True, as did everyone else.
True, as did everyone else.
I'm curious as to what would this mean, at all?
Sony's output of major productions wasn't particularly as high as people make it out to be.
I mean, the output cadence being fucked is a pretty subjective assortment, can you really look at their published games in 2024 and say that they had a poor cadence? They haven't even revealed all their stuff for this year, and yet it's still pretty decent in content, at 6/7 games.
Ratchet & Clank was not internally and these are pretty much about it. Except Astro Bot? What about Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart and Saros?
Rockstar isn't as dragged as much as people are fully aware of the manforce required to bring out games of that scope. Bethesda is a fair point, but Retro Studios? If it happens, it isn't nearly as big as what Naughty Dog gets.
Which is appropriate for what it is and taking into account its workforce.
How is that a bad thing in itself?
Focused on supporting a flawed project, a bad idea on its own, but they did not start development on its next project until two years ago.
Now that's a true fuck-up.
A fuck-up, but on a lesser scale. They ditched the GOW thing at the best time before wasting more time. 2 years is not insignificant, but not as bad.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Keep expectations really low
Like lower than ever before
Like lower than ever before
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Keep expectations really low
Like lower than ever before
kaizenkko
Member
To be honest, I don't think that the output in the PS4 gen was must different than what we have today.
2020: Demon's Souls Remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy
2021: Returnal, R&C Rift Apart
2022: GT7, GOW Ragnarok, HFW
2023: Spider-Man 2
2024: Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2, Lost Soul Aside, Marathon
Honestly, thhis cadence is just fine. More important than that, in the last 5 years Sony have release at least one of the best games of the year. Even regarding announcements: in the last 6 months they have announce Ghost of Yotei, Intergalactic and Saros. Three big single player games announce, two new IPs, but somehow people keep complaining.
2020: Demon's Souls Remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy
2021: Returnal, R&C Rift Apart
2022: GT7, GOW Ragnarok, HFW
2023: Spider-Man 2
2024: Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2, Lost Soul Aside, Marathon
Honestly, thhis cadence is just fine. More important than that, in the last 5 years Sony have release at least one of the best games of the year. Even regarding announcements: in the last 6 months they have announce Ghost of Yotei, Intergalactic and Saros. Three big single player games announce, two new IPs, but somehow people keep complaining.
yurinka
Member
After Demon Souls moved their role from being a support team who made remasters or remakes to be a support team who works in new games. Their whole studio moved to GoW Ragnarok as they completed their job in Demon Souls. After GoWR they moved to support some unknown game.
They never have been the lead studio of any new game. They never had the role positions to do so, and never had any of the GaaS specific roles needed to make a GaaS title.
yurinka
Member
Yep. Also, remember that in 2020 they also released Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2. But weren't crossgen, but are BC and considering them helps to better understand the cadence of their teams.
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blacktout
Member
I hope that this turns out to be true, if only because it would be nice to finally have a return of the June hype cycles of the E3 era, with presentations from Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo and major third parties.
Even if some of the presentations turn out to be disappointments (as some always do), at least there should be some fun discourse.
The last few years have been fine from a gaming perspective, but pretty lame from a news and excitement perspective, first with the entire industry recovering from COVID, and then with Nintendo winding down the Switch, Sony only doing intermittent showcases, and multiple third parties in general disarray.
Maybe we're finally about to kick off a new era of hype announcements. Or maybe this is just fucking cope. Guess we'll see in a few weeks.
Even if some of the presentations turn out to be disappointments (as some always do), at least there should be some fun discourse.
The last few years have been fine from a gaming perspective, but pretty lame from a news and excitement perspective, first with the entire industry recovering from COVID, and then with Nintendo winding down the Switch, Sony only doing intermittent showcases, and multiple third parties in general disarray.
Maybe we're finally about to kick off a new era of hype announcements. Or maybe this is just fucking cope. Guess we'll see in a few weeks.
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coachmcguirk91
Member
Marathon, Fairgames, Horizon online, are all due out in next year, so not surprisingThat FY25 split
All of their premiere studios are still working on single player games, besides Guerilla. And honestly, I'm more excited for Horizon Online than a Horizon 3 with Aloy
Mibu no ookami
Banned
I figured once they caught up to themselves we'd start getting showcases again, but they seem to be keeping a drip release strategy going.
They easily could have waited and shown Ghost of Yotei, Saros, and Intergalactic at the same show... They showed all of these games within like 3 months of each other... It just feels like amateur hour.
realcool
Member
Keep expectations really low
Like lower than ever before
larrybrady
Member
Been thinking about getting sack boy big adventure,curious,what did you think of it?
Yeah, I mean to me that only becomes an issue worth scrutinizing when Sony's pipeline gets disrupted (as it did this generation), which is why I at least never brought it up until it was a problem. Now, I won't doubt that there are trolls and console warriors who bring these points up in bad faith for sure, and I get the frustration with these points when that happens, but at least on my part, I am only discussing this in good faith, and trying to be as consistent and fair as I can be
(x2)
Right, and this is an issue across the board! I think the entire industry needs to take a good long look at the current scenario where a single game may take more time to be developed than an entire console cycle might. I don't think the issue applies only to Sony.
As far as the output of smaller games goes, again, I agree, this is true across the board. EA, Activision, Capcom are all examples (for instance) of publishers who have completely pared back their output of smaller games. Square has publicly stated it will walk its lower budget output back. This is a problem worth discussing for all publishers.
Starting with Uncharted 4, Sony achieved a cadence of 3-4 major releases in a year, I would like for that to be maintained. Obviously it is impossible to maintain that if every game is a flagship tentpole title, and the number of teams remains constant, which is where my insistence on smaller titles comes from.
Ratchet not being internal is a good shout, I had forgotten Insomniac wasn't acquired until after Spidey
Demon's Souls, Rift Apart, and Saros are all $70 games, and nothing in their scope suggests they are smaller than the developer/franchise's regular output, I would not count them as small. Miles Morales is a smaller game, it is also 5 years old now.
Retro being dragged as much ended over the last year, since they now have an upcoming project with a release window that they have been showing regularly. Before that, I assure you Retro concern trolling over their output was a very common thing in Nintendo circles. It is probable that, if you are not following Nintendo as intently as Sony (this is just a hypothetical, I do not intend for this to be an accusation or insinuation) you may not be as aware of those. But there was a whole period when Nintendo fans were outright calling for Retro to be shuttered because they were viewed as a waste of resources.
Right, but that is exactly why I have been insisting on these teams diversifying with smaller scoped projects lol
It is a bad thing in that what could have been, as an example, a Miles or Lost Legacy style smaller scoped Horizon game for PS5 (as an example), was not. Any team that gets diverted from contributing to Sony's lineup for the PS5 is a bad thing in this context. Obviously inherently there is nothing bad about it. However, it does add to the problem. Development has opportunity costs after all.
Right, that's the reason for the problem, but the problem does exist
Yeah, Bend is cursed
Yeah, if the rest of the lineup wasn't as lacking as it, I think this kind of fumble could easily be tanked, it only stands out because of everything else
Cheers, appreciate the conversation
If you like platformers, it's really good! It's a charming, fun game with excellent co-op and family appeal as well. 100% recommended to all fans of the genre
Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
Don't worry, I'm sure the showcase will definitely return next year.
Fabieter
Member
Especially when most of your gaas games are getting canceled or bomb. Sony is really questionable from top to bottom.
Topher
Identifies as young
2020 through 2022 for Sony was great. Since then there's a lot of games from non-first party studios. First party 2023 forward looks like this:
2023: Spider-man 2
2024: Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Marathon
2016 - 2018 first party studios last gen looked like....
2016 - Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4,
2017 - Gran Tursimo Sport, Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy
2018 - God of War, Spider-man
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Insanemaelstrom
Member
From another rumour it seems Sony is saving a showcase for later this year.
Personally expecting a small state of play 2-3 weeks after DS2 releases. It will probably feature the rumoured smaller greek era god of war game for Sept or earlier this year( like astro was last year).
I expect a showcase after GoY releases withgames like gt8, wolverine and soras taking prominence along with fair games( if it is not cancelled by then) and horizon multiplayer
Personally expecting a small state of play 2-3 weeks after DS2 releases. It will probably feature the rumoured smaller greek era god of war game for Sept or earlier this year( like astro was last year).
I expect a showcase after GoY releases withgames like gt8, wolverine and soras taking prominence along with fair games( if it is not cancelled by then) and horizon multiplayer
yurinka
Member
This sounds likely
Sounds the same bullshit than last year.
I think it's more realistic that as usual, there will be an early/mid June SoP around Business Segment Meeting / 'E3' and another SoP for around Septermber/pre-TGS.
And then just one game for the Doritos Summer Show and another one for Doritos Awards.
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diffusionx
Gold Member
nobody bought Lego Horizon Adventures
kaizenkko
Member
People love to make those distinctions to try prove a point. Until 2019, Insomniac was not a Sony first-party studio, so whats the difference between Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade to Ratchet 2016 and Spider-Man 2018?
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rickybooby87
Member
I wonder if we'll get a Starfield release date?
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
There's no point in watching it, it'll just be bad news... or stuff that's boring and overwhelming, like Horizon, The Last of Us...
I wouldn't even waste my time on that.
I wouldn't even waste my time on that.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It wasnt just the number of games either. Those games felt legit next gen. There was nothing like Uncharted 4 when it came out. TLG is a one off but it was legitimately awe-inspiring. As were HFW and GOW. Even spiderman felt new and fresh.
Spiderman, Astro bot, Ghost 2 all feel like retreads instead of generational leaps and i am not even talking graphically. They are more in that Ratchet Remake, Lost Legacy, and Infamous Second Son caliber of good games that feel all too samey and safe.
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Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
It'll be a ghost of yotei showcase, and maybe tease Wolverine for next year?
The other possible is this rumored remaster of original god of war people kept saying is this year.
If it's before DS2 launch maybe focus on that, or maybe MGS3 delta more.
It's a bleak show I expect.
I would very much prefer they focus on good games
Topher
Identifies as young
Corrected then. And the point I did make.....still stands.
2016 - The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4,
2017 - Gran Tursimo Sport, Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy
2018 - God of War
Pasta la Vista
Member
DS2 is PS5 timed exclusive?
Arsic
Loves his juicy stink trail scent
I'd much rather get master chief collection. I can't wait. Day one full price. No objections from me.
I want to replay all the halo games with my son on couch co op.
