Those games are co-developed by Sony's X-Dev Team. X-Dev are amazing and always a welcome surprise to what they bring.All of those games are super successful, so I don't think people can be blamed for not buying them lol
The bigger issue is that two of those are from external partners, so they don't really help addressing the issues in Sony's own internal pipeline right now. They do help keep things going for us, as customers (especially if we like smaller games!), but at least on my part, I was specifically discussing Sony's pipeline issues, so games NOT developed by Sony aren't addressing that issue, unfortunately
All of those games are super successful, so I don't think people can be blamed for not buying them lol
The bigger issue is that two of those are from external partners, so they don't really help addressing the issues in Sony's own internal pipeline right now. They do help keep things going for us, as customers (especially if we like smaller games!), but at least on my part, I was specifically discussing Sony's pipeline issues, so games NOT developed by Sony aren't addressing that issue, unfortunately
Fixed:
- Insomniac: Wolverine
- Naughty Dog: Intergalactic, unknown project
- Bend: Canceled live service pitch, starting over on new project
- Bluepoint: Canceled live service pitch, starting over on new project
- Sucker Punch: Ghost of Yotei
- Housemarque: Soros
- Guerrilla Games: Horizon co-op project
- Santa Monica: project headed by Cory Barlog (rumoured, unknown); new God of War spin off/sequen (rumoured)
- Polyphony Digital: Gran Turismo 7 (ongoing support)
- San Diego: MLB The Show (ongoing)
- LFG: Project Gummy Bears
- Media Molecule: unknown
- Asobi: unknown (probably Astro follow up?)
- Bungie: Marathon
Oh, they were a partner studio on God of War Ragnarok doing what they did best; art and engineering. Maybe that's not the case in 2025, but it was absolutely the case in 2020.Had Bluepoint started on Demon Souls 2 in 2020
No. Jeff has been spot on lately.His source:
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It's june, definitely june, nobody does this in may, it's a june thing, definitely a june thing.
For me, this became an argument only when it became an issue worth highlighting. Sony a) used to invest in smaller internal games more before this generation and b) had a more steady output before this generation. As long as even one of those points is true, this isn't an issue for me. Like if Sony is putting out games at the PS4 cadence this generation, then I don't care as much that they are not doing smaller games, because they have no need to do smaller games, and the larger ones are obviously better investments for them. So I get it in that scenario.My biggest issue is that this somehow became an argument this generation.
Sure, but Gravity Rush did. Puppeteer did. Uncharted The Lost Legacy did. Ratchet and Clank 2016 did. Tearaway did. Killzone Mercenaries did. That's the point, Sony put out a lot of smaller scoped games themselves (and yes, they also had a bunch of external partners helping them). Right now? Sony has no smaller scoped games internally except Astro.People talk about those smaller Japan Studio games, but how many of them came from the internal teams? I know that the likes of Tokyo Jungle, Rain and Everybody's Golf sure as hell did not.
They're not though? Rockstar is famously dragged for taking as long on a single game as they do. Bethesda has been mocked relentlessly for this. You mentioned Retro Studios, there was a whole DECADE of concern posting and trolling about that studio and whether or not it was going to be shut down. Games taking too long to come out, and the impact that has on pipeline, is one of the most widely discussed topics across the board. Sony is absolutely not singled out for this.Sony doesn't have the perfect internal pipeline, but I don't get how or why they're singled out. Naughty Dog releasing a new game 7 years later is not even a rare case in the current industry; you have Retro Studios taking 11 years, ffs.
Santa Monica, Asobi, San Diego, Guerrilla, and especially Insomniac have all done great this generation, Insomniac is practically carrying this generation by itself.Have Santa Monica Studio, Team Asobi, San Diego Studio, Guerrilla, Sucker Punch, Firesprite, Insomniac and Polyphony Digitam delivered less than what anyone expected?
A lot of their single player studios, including bend and bluepoint had been moved onto Gaas games, which have recently been cancelled. They don't actually have all that many studios and most of them have been on now cancelled, or doomed to failure Gaas. The output sadly this gen is gonna be dire. Second party is keeping the cogs turning. But they really need to buy a bunch more studios and stop fucking up the ones they do have. Xbox have about 3 times as many now and seem to be hitting their stride.Do we have an up to date thread about sony 1st party studios and what we know what they work on?
I feel like there is alot of unknown?
We know about Insomniac, because of the leak.
Ghost of Tsushima 2 is coming,
The 90s vibe game from Naughty Dog,
Saros from Housemarque.
But i cant think of much more? Am i just uninformed or are there potentially alot of unanounced games?
what bothers me more is the cut to single player budgets from 2019 to 2023. in an era when games costs are exploding, they reduced the budgets instead of matching them.That FY25 split
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Looks like they could easily pull a showcase together with all those games coming soon.Bend Studio -- Unknown (had their game cancelled in January)
Bungie -- Marathon (since ~2018) /// Destiny 2 DLCs
Dark Outlaw Games -- New IP (since ~2023)
Firesprite -- Until Dawn 2 (since ~2020)
Guerrilla Games -- Horizon Online (since ~2018) /// Horizon III (since ~2022)
Haven Studios -- Fairgames (since ~2021)
Housemarque -- Saros (since ~2021)
Insomniac Games -- Marvel's Wolverine (since ~2020) /// Marvel's Spider-Man: Venom (since ~2022) /// Marvel's Spider-Man 3 (since ~2023)
Media Molecule -- New IP (since ~2022)
Naughty Dog -- Intergalatic: The Heretic Prophet (since ~2020) /// new game in existing IP (since ~2022)
Polyphony Digital -- Gran Turismo 8 (since ~2022)
San Diego Studio -- MLB The Show
Santa Monica Studio -- New IP (since ~2018) /// God of War sequel (since ~2022)
Sucker Punch Productions -- Ghost of Yotei (since ~2020)
Team Asobi -- Astro Bot sequel? (since ~2024)
teamLFG -- New IP (since ~2023)
Plus XDEV, which collaborates with second-party studios such as Kojima Productions (Death Stranding 2: On The Beach and Physint), FromSoftware (new IP), People Can Fly (existing IP) and some unknowns, such as the team developing the smaller God of War spin-off game in Greece.
No. People expect to see quality from a Sony conference.They've got nothing to show, what are they going to do, have a showcase of Xbox games?
Fixed:
- Insomniac: Wolverine, (in case it was greenlighted) Venom
- Naughty Dog: Intergalactic, unknown single player project(s)
- Bend: open world new IP with live service elements (rumored to be canceled and starting over on new project)
- Bluepoint: it's a support team, never has been the lead dev team of any game
- Sucker Punch: Ghost of Yotei
- Housemarque: Saros
- Guerrilla Games: Horizon Online, Horizon 3
- Santa Monica: project headed by Cory Barlog (rumoured, unknown); new God of War sequel in a new mythology (confirmed), smaller GoW project (rumored)
- Polyphony Digital: Gran Turismo 7 (ongoing support), Gran Turismo 8
- San Diego: MLB The Show (ongoing support / new games)
- LFG: Project Gummy Bears
- Media Molecule: unknown new IP
- Asobi: unknown (probably Astro follow up?)
- Bungie: Marathon, Destiny 2 The Edge of Fate
- Kojima Productions: Death Stranding 2
- Ultizero Games: Lost Soul Aside
- Velan: Midnight Murder Club
- Loong Force: Convallaria
- Firesprite: dark horror narrative adventure
- Haven: Fairgame$
- Aspyr/Saber: Star Wars KOTOR remake
- Dark Outlaw: unknown game (very early stages)
- People Can Fly: unknown game (very early stages)
- Shift Up: Stellar Blade PC port, Stellar Blade 2 (very early stages)
- Nixxes: unknown PC port or remaster
- Bandai Namco: Everybody's Golf Hot Shots, Patapon 1+2 Replay
I added many missing upcoming PS Studios games and fixed a few incorrect entries. And yes, including the ones licensed to Bandai Namco.How is that fixed? He asked what was coming from Sony's first party studios and you add in Bandai Namco?
I was talking about the internal vs. external thing.For me, this became an argument only when it became an issue worth highlighting.
True, as did everyone else.Sony a) used to invest in smaller internal games more before this generation
True, as did everyone else.and b) had a more steady output before this generation.
I'm curious as to what would this mean, at all?As long as even one of those points is true, this isn't an issue for me. Like if Sony is putting out games at the PS4 cadence this generation, then I don't care as much that they are not doing smaller games, because they have no need to do smaller games, and the larger ones are obviously better investments for them. So I get it in that scenario.
I mean, the output cadence being fucked is a pretty subjective assortment, can you really look at their published games in 2024 and say that they had a poor cadence? They haven't even revealed all their stuff for this year, and yet it's still pretty decent in content, at 6/7 games.In this scenario, however, Sony's output cadence is fucked, which is something that WOULD be easily fixable with a more diverse development pipeline; THAT is what brings the focus on smaller scoped projects, because it's an easy way to fix this issue, AND it is something Sony themselves have been experts at juggling every single generation before this one.
Ratchet & Clank was not internally and these are pretty much about it. Except Astro Bot? What about Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart and Saros?Sure, but Gravity Rush did. Puppeteer did. Uncharted The Lost Legacy did. Ratchet and Clank 2016 did. Tearaway did. Killzone Mercenaries did. That's the point, Sony put out a lot of smaller scoped games themselves (and yes, they also had a bunch of external partners helping them). Right now? Sony has no smaller scoped games internally except Astro.
Rockstar isn't as dragged as much as people are fully aware of the manforce required to bring out games of that scope. Bethesda is a fair point, but Retro Studios? If it happens, it isn't nearly as big as what Naughty Dog gets.They're not though? Rockstar is famously dragged for taking as long on a single game as they do. Bethesda has been mocked relentlessly for this. You mentioned Retro Studios, there was a whole DECADE of concern posting and trolling about that studio and whether or not it was going to be shut down. Games taking too long to come out, and the impact that has on pipeline, is one of the most widely discussed topics across the board. Sony is absolutely not singled out for this.
Which is appropriate for what it is and taking into account its workforce.Santa Monica, Asobi, San Diego, Guerrilla, and especially Insomniac have all done great this generation, Insomniac is practically carrying this generation by itself.
Sucker Punch has taken 5 years to put out a follow up to Ghost
How is that a bad thing in itself?Firesprite has done nothing except a VR spin off
Focused on supporting a flawed project, a bad idea on its own, but they did not start development on its next project until two years ago.and then we have all the other teams discussed previously, including Media Molecule
Now that's a true fuck-up.Bend
A fuck-up, but on a lesser scale. They ditched the GOW thing at the best time before wasting more time. 2 years is not insignificant, but not as bad.Bluepoint
Keep expectations really low
Like lower than ever before
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After Demon Souls moved their role from being a support team who made remasters or remakes to be a support team who works in new games. Their whole studio moved to GoW Ragnarok as they completed their job in Demon Souls. After GoWR they moved to support some unknown game.Had Bluepoint started on Demon Souls 2 in 2020, or another remake, it wouldve been ready for 2025. But no, another studios wasted on gaas trash.
Yep. Also, remember that in 2020 they also released Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima and TLOU2. But weren't crossgen, but are BC and considering them helps to better understand the cadence of their teams.To be honest, I don't think that the output in the PS4 gen was must different than what we have today.
2020: Demon's Souls Remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy
2021: Returnal, R&C Rift Apart
2022: GT7, GOW Ragnarok, HFW
2023: Spider-Man 2
2024: Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2, Lost Soul Aside, Marathon
Honestly, thhis cadence is just fine. More important than that, in the last 5 years Sony have release at least one of the best games of the year. Even regarding announcements: in the last 6 months they have announce Ghost of Yotei, Intergalactic and Saros. Three big single player games announce, two new IPs, but somehow people keep complaining.
Marathon, Fairgames, Horizon online, are all due out in next year, so not surprisingThat FY25 split
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There's a lot unannounced but they seem to have got into a pattern of "mostly" only showing what is coming out within the next 12 months.
I hope they break that cycle soon.
Keep expectations really low
Like lower than ever before
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Been thinking about getting sack boy big adventure,curious,what did you think of it?No because it didn't interest me
I did buy Sackboy A Big Adventure, which did interest me, if we are speaking of their smaller scale projects.
Yeah, I mean to me that only becomes an issue worth scrutinizing when Sony's pipeline gets disrupted (as it did this generation), which is why I at least never brought it up until it was a problem. Now, I won't doubt that there are trolls and console warriors who bring these points up in bad faith for sure, and I get the frustration with these points when that happens, but at least on my part, I am only discussing this in good faith, and trying to be as consistent and fair as I can beI was talking about the internal vs. external thing.
(x2)True, as did everyone else.
Starting with Uncharted 4, Sony achieved a cadence of 3-4 major releases in a year, I would like for that to be maintained. Obviously it is impossible to maintain that if every game is a flagship tentpole title, and the number of teams remains constant, which is where my insistence on smaller titles comes from.I'm curious as to what would this mean, at all?
Sony's output of major productions wasn't particularly as high as people make it out to be.
Ratchet not being internal is a good shout, I had forgotten Insomniac wasn't acquired until after SpideyRatchet & Clank was not internally and these are pretty much about it. Except Astro Bot? What about Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart and Saros?
Retro being dragged as much ended over the last year, since they now have an upcoming project with a release window that they have been showing regularly. Before that, I assure you Retro concern trolling over their output was a very common thing in Nintendo circles. It is probable that, if you are not following Nintendo as intently as Sony (this is just a hypothetical, I do not intend for this to be an accusation or insinuation) you may not be as aware of those. But there was a whole period when Nintendo fans were outright calling for Retro to be shuttered because they were viewed as a waste of resources.Rockstar isn't as dragged as much as people are fully aware of the manforce required to bring out games of that scope. Bethesda is a fair point, but Retro Studios? If it happens, it isn't nearly as big as what Naughty Dog gets.
Right, but that is exactly why I have been insisting on these teams diversifying with smaller scoped projects lolWhich is appropriate for what it is and taking into account its workforce.
It is a bad thing in that what could have been, as an example, a Miles or Lost Legacy style smaller scoped Horizon game for PS5 (as an example), was not. Any team that gets diverted from contributing to Sony's lineup for the PS5 is a bad thing in this context. Obviously inherently there is nothing bad about it. However, it does add to the problem. Development has opportunity costs after all.How is that a bad thing in itself?
Right, that's the reason for the problem, but the problem does existFocused on supporting a flawed project, a bad idea on its own, but they did not start development on its next project until two years ago.
Yeah, Bend is cursedNow that's a true fuck-up.
Yeah, if the rest of the lineup wasn't as lacking as it, I think this kind of fumble could easily be tanked, it only stands out because of everything elseA fuck-up, but on a lesser scale. They ditched the GOW thing at the best time before wasting more time. 2 years is not insignificant, but not as bad.
Cheers, appreciate the conversationOk, this was a good honest response.
If you like platformers, it's really good! It's a charming, fun game with excellent co-op and family appeal as well. 100% recommended to all fans of the genreBeen thinking about getting sack boy big adventure,curious,what did you think of it?
But when 60% of your budget is going into GaaS, there isnt enough money left to give it to your other teams. The ones that made you successful. The ones that literally resurrected the Sony brand after the fuckups of the PS3 launch. I havent seen first party studios abandoned like this, ever.
To be honest, I don't think that the output in the PS4 gen was must different than what we have today.
2020: Demon's Souls Remake, Miles Morales, Sackboy
2021: Returnal, R&C Rift Apart
2022: GT7, GOW Ragnarok, HFW
2023: Spider-Man 2
2024: Helldivers 2, Stellar Blade, Rise of the Ronin, Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2, Lost Soul Aside, Marathon
Honestly, thhis cadence is just fine. More important than that, in the last 5 years Sony have release at least one of the best games of the year. Even regarding announcements: in the last 6 months they have announce Ghost of Yotei, Intergalactic and Saros. Three big single player games announce, two new IPs, but somehow people keep complaining.
This sounds likelyI'm anticipating the reveals of Until Dawn 2, Horizon Online and the God of War spin-off across both this event as well as Geoff Keighley's Summer Game Fest. I feel that they're all coming within the next six months. Plus, we should also be getting marketing beats for Death Stranding 2, Destiny 2: The Edge of Fate, Lost Soul Aside, Marathon and Ghost of Yotei, which will release over the next three months.
They'll save the big guns for September and The Game Awards. No need to overwhelm the conversation with more game announcements right now.
Sounds the same bullshit than last year.From another rumour it seems Sony is saving a showcase for later this year
nobody bought Lego Horizon AdventuresDid you buy Lego Horizon Adventures, developed in less than 2 years?
People love to make those distinctions to try prove a point. Until 2019, Insomniac was not a Sony first-party studio, so whats the difference between Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade to Ratchet 2016 and Spider-Man 2018?2020 through 2022 for Sony was great. Since then there's a lot of games from non-first party studios. First party 2023 forward looks like this:
2023: Spider-man 2
2024: Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Marathon
2016 - 2018 first party studios last gen looked like....
2016 - Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4,
2017 - Gran Tursimo Sport, Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy
2018 - God of War, Spider-man
It wasnt just the number of games either. Those games felt legit next gen. There was nothing like Uncharted 4 when it came out. TLG is a one off but it was legitimately awe-inspiring. As were HFW and GOW. Even spiderman felt new and fresh.2020 through 2022 for Sony was great. Since then there's a lot of games from non-first party studios. First party 2023 forward looks like this:
2023: Spider-man 2
2024: Astro Bot
2025: Ghost of Yotei, Marathon
2016 - 2018 first party studios last gen looked like....
2016 - Ratchet and Clank, The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4,
2017 - Gran Tursimo Sport, Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy
2018 - God of War, Spider-man
It'll be a ghost of yotei showcase, and maybe tease Wolverine for next year?If it's a State of Play, I expect only 1-2 first party games at the show max. I expect they may even be Marathon and Fairgames.
At least I am expecting some good third party announcements, RE9 please and thank you
I would very much prefer they focus on good gamesI wonder if we'll get a Starfield release date?
People love to make those distinctions to try prove a point. Until 2019, Insomniac was not a Sony first-party studio, so whats the difference between Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade to Ratchet 2016 and Spider-Man 2018?
I'd much rather get master chief collection. I can't wait. Day one full price. No objections from me.I wonder if we'll get a Starfield release date?
Just like the rest of Sony's smaller games.nobody bought Lego Horizon Adventures