Jeff Grubb: It sounds like Sony has probably settled on a State of Play for June (rather than a Showcase)

Just like the rest of Sony's smaller games.
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I have a feeling that Sony wasn't deluded into thinking whatever the fuck that is was part of a major franchise.

Horizon has absolutely no juice and Sony is still dropping hundreds of millions of dollars into it.
 
i think im done with ps5 this gen. i'll jump back in on PS6 / Portable when i can play my ps4, and 5 library portably offline.
 
I have a feeling that Sony wasn't deluded into thinking whatever the fuck that is was part of a major franchise.

Horizon has absolutely no juice and Sony is still dropping hundreds of millions of dollars into it.
It costed 500k at most to make, let's be honest.
The thing they're dropping hundreds of millions of dollars into it are the mainline games, which yes, definitely have juice.
 
Ya it's time to admit that sony's first party offerings this generation have been lackluster. Too sporadic and not enough content honestly.

The truth is, Sony has also decided to not talk about their games until they are less than a year away in some cases. To me, that's stupid. But it is what it is.
 
It wasnt just the number of games either. Those games felt legit next gen. There was nothing like Uncharted 4 when it came out. TLG is a one off but it was legitimately awe-inspiring. As were HFW and GOW. Even spiderman felt new and fresh.

Spiderman, Astro bot, Ghost 2 all feel like retreads instead of generational leaps and i am not even talking graphically. They are more in that Ratchet Remake, Lost Legacy, and Infamous Second Son caliber of good games that feel all too samey and safe.

Well put. And going back to the thread topic, these games were why we had showcases every single year last gen. Sony had a ton to show off and there was genuine excitement about everything they were doing. Now I really don't care about more Marvel from Insomniac. That well feels dry. I really miss the side games that weren't the headliners. TLG and Lost Legacy really added depth to the overall offering, but while those games took a backseat to the likes of Uncharted 4 and God of War, something similar today would be huge news. Stark difference, imo.
 
Corrected then. And the point I did make.....still stands.

2016 - The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4,
2017 - Gran Tursimo Sport, Gravity Rush 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Knack 2, Uncharted Lost Legacy
2018 - God of War
The Last Guardian was not developed by a Sony first-party studio. Sony Japan was not the lead development team, just a support studio, just like xDev, who have work in a lot of games. Point things this way is really dumb.
 
People love to make those distinctions to try prove a point. Until 2019, Insomniac was not a Sony first-party studio, so whats the difference between Helldivers 2 and Stellar Blade to Ratchet 2016 and Spider-Man 2018?
you can include helldivers 2 since sony owns the IP but then you will have to include the SOTC Remake, Detroit, Until Dawn, Bloodborne, The Order, etc. BTW, Spiderman only happened because Marvel approached sony for Spiderman game and Sony contracted Insomniac to do it. It is as much a sony first party game as ratchet or killzone was before sony bought out GG.

Sony doesnt own the Stellar Blade IP. They published it like they published Nioh last gen. So yeah, HD2 counts. Stellar Blade 2 doesnt. There is no conspiracy theory here. We have actual budget allocations from sony showing a reduction in SP investment. And a massive increase in GaaS investment which did not pan out as they've cancelled literally 9 of those games. Jimbo had promised 12 gaas games by 2025. When Marathon comes out, they will have delivered a total of 3 with Concord literally being cancelled after launch.
 
The Last Guardian was not developed by a Sony first-party studio. Sony Japan was not the lead development team, just a support studio, just like xDev, who have work in a lot of games. Point things this way is really dumb.
Eh, no. The Last Guardian had most of the development staff at Japan Studio, GenDesign had 14 people at most.
Sony doesnt own the Stellar Blade IP. They published it like they published Nioh last gen.
They didn't publish Nioh, they published Stellar Blade. They funded development on Stellar Blade, they didn't on Nioh.
 
The Last Guardian was not developed by a Sony first-party studio. Sony Japan was not the lead development team, just a support studio, just like xDev, who have work in a lot of games. Point things this way is really dumb.

What's hilarious is that you can remove TLG as well and Sony's first party studio those years still outshines this gen for those years by far.
 
you can include helldivers 2 since sony owns the IP but then you will have to include the SOTC Remake, Detroit, Until Dawn, Bloodborne, The Order, etc. BTW, Spiderman only happened because Marvel approached sony for Spiderman game and Sony contracted Insomniac to do it. It is as much a sony first party game as ratchet or killzone was before sony bought out GG.

Sony doesnt own the Stellar Blade IP. They published it like they published Nioh last gen. So yeah, HD2 counts. Stellar Blade 2 doesnt. There is no conspiracy theory here. We have actual budget allocations from sony showing a reduction in SP investment. And a massive increase in GaaS investment which did not pan out as they've cancelled literally 9 of those games. Jimbo had promised 12 gaas games by 2025. When Marathon comes out, they will have delivered a total of 3 with Concord literally being cancelled after launch.
You can include everything, lol. This is the right approach. For Sony, Death Stranding 2 is a first-party game, even them not owning the IP. So the same logic can be used for Rise of the Ronin and Helldivers 2 at least. Sony was involved with the development of these games since the beggining. And well, I'm sure Stellar Blade would be a completely different game without Sony involvement, or Lost Soul Aside may never see the light of the day if Sony had not supported since the beginning. So yeah, they have invested in these games, their support studio (xDev) worked on these games, so I really can't see the pratical difference between any of these games or any other made by a Sony studio itself.

I see the things this way:

2013: Killzone ShadowFall, Knack (2)
2014: Infamous SS, Driveclub (2)
2015: Until Dawn, The Order, Bloodborne (3)
2016: Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted 4, The Last Guardian (3)
2017: Gravity Rush 2, HZD, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Knack 2, Gran Turismo Sport (5)
2018: God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, Spider-Man (3)
Total: 18

2020: Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Sackyboy (3)
2021: Returnal, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart (2)
2022: HFW, God of War Ragnarok, GT7 (3)
2023: Spider-Man (1)
2024: Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, Astro Bot (4)
2025: Lost Soul Aside, Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2, Marathon (4)
Total: 17
 
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Yeah, I mean to me that only becomes an issue worth scrutinizing when Sony's pipeline gets disrupted (as it did this generation), which is why I at least never brought it up until it was a problem. Now, I won't doubt that there are trolls and console warriors who bring these points up in bad faith for sure, and I get the frustration with these points when that happens, but at least on my part, I am only discussing this in good faith, and trying to be as consistent and fair as I can be


(x2)

Right, and this is an issue across the board! I think the entire industry needs to take a good long look at the current scenario where a single game may take more time to be developed than an entire console cycle might. I don't think the issue applies only to Sony.

As far as the output of smaller games goes, again, I agree, this is true across the board. EA, Activision, Capcom are all examples (for instance) of publishers who have completely pared back their output of smaller games. Square has publicly stated it will walk its lower budget output back. This is a problem worth discussing for all publishers.
All fair points, don't know if I have much to add here.
Starting with Uncharted 4, Sony achieved a cadence of 3-4 major releases in a year, I would like for that to be maintained. Obviously it is impossible to maintain that if every game is a flagship tentpole title, and the number of teams remains constant, which is where my insistence on smaller titles comes from.
I honestly think that's overselling it. Let's take a look at the major, big budget productions from each year on that small period:
2016: Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
2017: Horizon Zero Dawn, Gran Turismo Sport
2018: God of War, Spider-Man
2019: Days Gone, Death Stranding
2020: The Last of Us Part II, Ghost of Tsushima
2016 only really had Uncharted 4, while for the next 4 years you would have two heavy hitters per year at most, with even some of those being externally-developed.
Ratchet not being internal is a good shout, I had forgotten Insomniac wasn't acquired until after Spidey

Demon's Souls, Rift Apart, and Saros are all $70 games, and nothing in their scope suggests they are smaller than the developer/franchise's regular output, I would not count them as small. Miles Morales is a smaller game, it is also 5 years old now.
While price is generally a good indication of this, I wouldn't count of it being the case with Sony's early PS5 games, when they insisted on having that $70 price tag early on; Demon's Souls, RA and Saros are all on the same range as Uncharted: The Lost Legacy in terms of scope and budget.
Retro being dragged as much ended over the last year, since they now have an upcoming project with a release window that they have been showing regularly. Before that, I assure you Retro concern trolling over their output was a very common thing in Nintendo circles. It is probable that, if you are not following Nintendo as intently as Sony (this is just a hypothetical, I do not intend for this to be an accusation or insinuation) you may not be as aware of those. But there was a whole period when Nintendo fans were outright calling for Retro to be shuttered because they were viewed as a waste of resources.
Fair enough!
Right, but that is exactly why I have been insisting on these teams diversifying with smaller scoped projects lol
I mean, Sucker Punch technically does that, as they have a team dedicated on the MP (not GAAS, btw) component. It even got a standalone release, so I wonder if this could count?
It is a bad thing in that what could have been, as an example, a Miles or Lost Legacy style smaller scoped Horizon game for PS5 (as an example), was not. Any team that gets diverted from contributing to Sony's lineup for the PS5 is a bad thing in this context. Obviously inherently there is nothing bad about it. However, it does add to the problem. Development has opportunity costs after all.
Sure, but Firesprite has always had strength on the VR space, so I wouldn't think it's fair to rule out this one project. Their next game isn't that far off from release, so they have a decent development pipeline.
Cheers, appreciate the conversation
I do as well!
 
I think it's time to sell my PS5. It gives me more feelings of disappointment each time I see it than even my own mirror reflection.
 
What's hilarious is that you can remove TLG as well and Sony's first party studio those years still outshines this gen for those years by far.
You is considering one specific time frame who support your narrative. lol

Games developed by Sony's first-party studios between 2013~2018:

Killzone
Knack
Infamous
Driveclub
Uncharted 4
Gravity Rush 2
HZD
Uncharted Lost Legacy
Knack 2
Gran Turismo Sport
God of War
11

Games developed by Sony's first-party studios between 2020~2025:
Miles Morales
Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart
HFW
God of War Ragnarok
GT7
Spider-Man 2
Astro Bot
Ghost of Yotei
8

---

11 games vs 8 games, just three more, and I'm not counting Returnal or Demons Souls Remake, because Sony have adquire those studios later. But only 3 games more in the PS4 gen, and a lot of these are just crap (Knack, Killzone, etc).
 
Sony summer shows used to be pure bliss. Even if not all the games turned out to be great, the excitement of Last Guardian, Shenmue 3, Horizon, Hitman, Dreams, Uncharted 4, etc. made that 2015 show an absolute banger. Ugh, maybe I'm just getting old
 
Sony summer shows used to be pure bliss. Even if not all the games turned out to be great, the excitement of Last Guardian, Shenmue 3, Horizon, Hitman, Dreams, Uncharted 4, etc. made that 2015 show an absolute banger. Ugh, maybe I'm just getting old
No, you're right. They used to be banger.

But yes, we're getting old too.
 
You can include everything, lol. This is the right approach. For Sony, Death Stranding 2 is a first-party game, even them not owning the IP. So the same logic can be used for Rise of the Ronin and Helldivers 2 at least. Sony was involved with the development of these games since the beggining. And well, I'm sure Stellar Blade would be a completely different game without Sony involvement, or Lost Soul Aside may never see the light of the day if Sony had not supported since the beginning. So yeah, they have invested in these games, their support studio (xDev) worked on these games, so I really can't see the pratical difference between any of these games or any other made by a Sony studio itself.

I see the things this way:

2013: Killzone ShadowFall, Knack (2)
2014: Infamous SS, Driveclub (2)
2015: Until Dawn, The Order, Bloodborne (3)
2016: Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted 4, The Last Guardian (3)
2017: Gravity Rush 2, HZD, Uncharted Lost Legacy, Knack 2, Gran Turismo Sport (5)
2018: God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, Spider-Man (3)
Total: 18

2020: Demon's Souls, Miles Morales, Sackyboy (3)
2021: Returnal, Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart (2)
2022: HFW, God of War Ragnarok, GT7 (3)
2023: Spider-Man (1)
2024: Helldivers 2, Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, Astro Bot (4)
2025: Lost Soul Aside, Ghost of Yotei, Death Stranding 2, Marathon (4)
Total: 17
no, Rise of Ronin, Stellar Blade, Death Stranding, Lost Souls Aside dont count because Sony doesnt own the IP. If they count then Nioh counts. I will give you DS2 since sony funded it completely but the rest of the games are self funded or partially funded by other studios and publishers.

And you are missing Detroit, Resogun, Helldivers 1, Little Big Planet 3, Astro Bot Rescue Mission.
 
no, Rise of Ronin, Stellar Blade, Death Stranding, Lost Souls Aside dont count because Sony doesnt own the IP. If they count then Nioh counts.
For the fifth time, Sony didn't publish Nioh like they did the other games.
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I will give you DS2 since sony funded it completely but the rest of the games are self funded or partially funded by other studios and publishers.
Outside of maybe Rise of the Ronin (which means it's as much of a SIE game as it is a KTG game), Sony funded all those games by the time they published them. "And publishers" 🫠
 
no, Rise of Ronin, Stellar Blade, Death Stranding, Lost Souls Aside dont count because Sony doesnt own the IP.

So then you're saying that, because they didn't own the IP at the time they released, you no longer count:

  • inFamous and inFamous 2
  • Sly Cooper 1-3
  • The first Killzone
  • Every Ratchet & Clank game until Rift Apart
  • The first Marvel's Spider-Man
  • Housemarque's Resogun, Alienation, Matterfall, and Nex Machina

as critical exclusives to PlayStation's success?

Every single one of those games were developed before Sony formally acquired their studios and their IPs, yet are considered PlayStation "first party" games due to their exclusivity.

Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, Death Stranding, and Lost Souls Aside are today are no different than inFamous was decades ago. All of the sudden everyone wants to split hairs on what constitutes "first party", when many of the games they champion as examples of the era of PlayStation's great output was from second party studios in conjunction with Sony.
 
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So then you're saying that, because they didn't own the IP at the time they released, you no longer count:

  • inFamous and inFamous 2
  • Sly Cooper 1-3
  • The first Killzone
  • Every Ratchet & Clank game until Rift Apart
  • The first Marvel's Spider-Man
  • Housemarque's Resogun, Alienation, Matterfall, and Nex Machina

as critical exclusives to PlayStation's success?

Every single one of those games were developed before Sony formally acquired their studios and their IPs, yet are considered PlayStation "first party" games due to their exclusivity.

Rise of the Ronin, Stellar Blade, Death Stranding, and Lost Souls Aside are today are no different than inFamous was decades ago. All of the sudden everyone wants to split hairs on what constitutes "first party", when many of the games they champion as examples of the era of PlayStation's great output was from second party studios in conjunction with Sony.
Sony owns all those IPs. they simply contracted those studios to work on those IPs. They also owned the Death Stranding IP until they sold to Kojima recently but i counted that one.

They licensed the Spiderman IP from Marvel. It costs literally a $100 million. Something insomniac were never paying on their own.
 
You is considering one specific time frame who support your narrative. lol

Considering my entire point has been first party the last three years has been lacking when compared to last gen at the same point......yeah, no shit. You can call that a "narrative" if it makes you feel better, I guess. I just want more first party Sony games like we used to get. No showcase makes me believe that isn't going to be the case.
 
This could be focus on the last trailer of DS2 before launch, which might be running on PS5 pro this time. Cant wait. And Stellar blade DLC trailer, hopefully a bigger expansion announcement. GOY new trailer will surely appear and Lost soul from Sony hero project. I hope we can also see the other Hero projects in Asia. I hope they tease games for next year like Saros, Phantom blade, and Wolverine. Very low chance we see the next project of Kojima for ps5, and Bend and Bluepoint single player exclusives.
 
Considering my entire point has been first party the last three years has been lacking when compared to last gen at the same point......yeah, no shit. You can call that a "narrative" if it makes you feel better, I guess. I just want more first party Sony games like we used to get. No showcase makes me believe that isn't going to be the case.
It's a narrative, because you ignore the fact that Sony released a lot of games between 2020~2022. Much more than they did between 2013~2015, and without a doubt, with much more quality overall. That explain why they can't release games at the same cadence right now, but overall, compared with last gen, their output (quantity) is basically the same.
 
no, Rise of Ronin, Stellar Blade, Death Stranding, Lost Souls Aside dont count because Sony doesnt own the IP. If they count then Nioh counts. I will give you DS2 since sony funded it completely but the rest of the games are self funded or partially funded by other studios and publishers.

And you are missing Detroit, Resogun, Helldivers 1, Little Big Planet 3, Astro Bot Rescue Mission.
They don't own the IP called Spider-Man, so I think we can ignore at least three more games, right? The same regarding Wolverine.

This is just a dumb way to see things, lol.
 
This could be focus on the last trailer of DS2 before launch, which might be running on PS5 pro this time. Cant wait. And Stellar blade DLC trailer, hopefully a bigger expansion announcement. GOY new trailer will surely appear and Lost soul from Sony hero project. I hope we can also see the other Hero projects in Asia. I hope they tease games for next year like Saros, Phantom blade, and Wolverine. Very low chance we see the next project of Kojima for ps5, and Bend and Bluepoint single player exclusives.

Bluepoint and bend were wasted on gaas, i doubt you will see another game from them this generation.
 
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