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[Mii]

I don't think there will be closure. When this goes nowhere I bet Jill blames the system and says they stopped the will of the people or some shit and there will be a new stage of rage.

The hope that a recount somehow overturns the result is borderline foolish and the basis for the recount, the UMich findings, are flimsy claims.

However, an audit is meant, in my opinion at least, to prevent some of the larger conspiracy theories (read: Russian hacking) from worsening in the coming months and years. Such conspiracy theories will undermine our democracy and have long-term repercussions if not resolved.

A recount is an extraordinary tactic, but due to this extraordinary election (involvement of a foreign power in the election news cycle and the conspiracy theories around further involvement related to the voting itself), the country for the sake of trust in the ballot box is better served by a vote audit. I do not expect a material change in the vote result, and thats the point. We can't let conspiracy theories around the ballot box stand unaddressed.

If state politicians willfully ignore a public that is willing to fully pay for a recount though, we have a different, probably significantly worse set of problems now on our hands. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

If fraud is found and Clinton truly did win in these states, then we didn't win in a democracy to begin with and we need revolution. If not, no harm no foul, right? We need to stop being afraid. This is a cause worth donating.

Quoting you but this reply is to a few people.

To clarify, I was responding to the person hoping there was fraud, not suggesting that a recount is in itself a dangerous thing. If there is fraud then it's better to find out about it, but the impact will be huge. You actually nailed it by using the word "revolution", that could very well be the outcome.

Those get ugly. Necessary at times, but really ugly.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Last i heard it was 900-ish ..

Damn that sky rocketed

 

[ishibear]

If anything does happen then this sets a very bad precedence for future elections. Don't like the result? Just pay for a recount! It's not like you need any evidence of fraud, right? All this does is give people false hope while cheapening the election process.

Also, passion and symbolism? Okay, sure. But at least admit it's wrapped in bitterness and desperation because their side lost.

Or disgust because a racist, xenophobic, bigot is president elect. But yes, let's continue to believe we are sad over a loss. This wasn't just any loss. This is a nightmare for many of us.

What I am more interested in is why you and a couple others are so offended by this. Keep hiding behind that "precedent these acts set" excuse. It means nothing.

 

[Sydle]

It's definitely going to hit the goal by Friday if not tonight. The page says the $2.5 million is just to cover the recount fees, so they'll probably make enough to cover any lawyer fees as well.

 

[manny10032]

2.1mil

 

[seat]

If anything does happen then this sets a very bad precedence for future elections. Don't like the result? Just pay for a recount! It's not like you need any evidence of fraud, right? All this does is give people false hope while cheapening the election process.

Also, passion and symbolism? Okay, sure. But at least admit it's wrapped in bitterness and desperation because their side lost.

"Their side" ("sides"! How sports-y!) lost for the second time in 16 years due to the same clusterfuck known as our electoral process, which simply doesn't work in and wasn't designed for our modern age. The only difference between now and 2000 is that we now have a difference of a couple million votes instead of a few thousand. Our electoral process has done a find job cheapening itself on its own. No help needed.

Trump rose to power simply because some people wanted a molotov cocktail thrown into the system. Why not throw another into our electoral system? Hold on to your ass, Scrooged, 'cause it's going to be bumpy ride.

 

[Kettch]

It's extremely unlikely that there would be enough fraud to flip all 3 of these states and the election. The accusations against Russia and the like have no actual evidence behind them, so they're pure conspiracy theories at this point.

I can understand why people would want to throw money at the slight hope though. It's probably still better odds than winning the lottery, and like half the country wastes money on that. Just keep in mind that there is no reason to think that you'll get anything out of this (outside of an assured Trump twitter tantrum).

 

[Rentahamster]

I mean the only other thing I can find her saying is a Facebook post that between a vote for Hillary 'status quo' Clinton and a vote for Trump she's ready to protest on the streets in Trump's America.

If there's more where she's clearly saying Hillary is the better choice elsewhere I haven't seen it, but am happy to be corrected.

Check her Twitter, and interviews on Youtube.

Also, she doesn't have to say that Hillary is the better choice, in order to satisfy the condition of "not preferring Trump". She thinks they're both shit.

 

[AniHawk]

It's extremely unlikely that there would be enough fraud to flip all 3 of these states and the election. The accusations against Russia and the like have no actual evidence behind them, so they're pure conspiracy theories at this point.

I can understand why people would want to throw money at the slight hope though. It's probably still better odds than winning the lottery, and like half the country wastes money on that. Just keep in mind that there is no reason to think that you'll get anything out of this (outside of an assured Trump twitter tantrum).

i can see three positive things for democrats without the results being changed beyond a couple hundred votes:

1. gets democrats off the conspiracy train
2. raises awareness and interest in democrats in the process
3. solidifies for them what the actual problems are

like... if they came away from this election thinking 'it was russia! ...and hacked machines!' then actual introspection might not take place. at least this can settle matters so the real work can actually begin.

 

[BlastProcessing]

i can see three positive things for democrats without the results being changed beyond a couple hundred votes:

1. gets democrats off the conspiracy train
2. raises awareness and interest in democrats in the process
3. solidifies for them what the actual problems are

like... if they came away from this election thinking 'it was russia! ...and hacked machines!' then actual introspection might not take place. at least this can settle matters so the real work can actually begin.

My fear is that these recounts are going to uncover just enough irregularities to allow the usual subjects to spin up a persistent truther conspiracy around the election. There are going to be a ton of #facts that will result from this.

 

[danm999]

Check her Twitter, and interviews on Youtube.

Also, she doesn't have to say that Hillary is the better choice, in order to satisfy the condition of "not preferring Trump". She thinks they're both shit.

Yeah I checked her Twitter and Facebook and only found things where she's saying/implying Clinton would be worse/a worse case scenario.

 

[Calamari41]

"Their side" ("sides"! How sports-y!) lost for the second time in 16 years due to the same clusterfuck known as our electoral process, which simply doesn't work in and wasn't designed for our modern age. The only difference between now and 2000 is that we now have a difference of a couple million votes instead of a few thousand. Our electoral process has done a find job cheapening itself on its own. No help needed.

Trump rose to power simply because some people wanted a molotov cocktail thrown into the system. Why not throw another into our electoral system? Hold on to your ass, Scrooged, 'cause it's going to be bumpy ride.

You have to amend the Constitution to change the way our elections work. Change.org petitions and crowd funded recounts aren't going to pierce the armor. You don't win national elections by running up the score in California and New York, and that is the simple truth. Whether you love the electoral college or hate it with the fire of a thousand suns, that truth remains.

 

[Rentahamster]

Yeah I checked her Twitter and Facebook and only found things where she's saying/implying Clinton would be worse/a worse case scenario.

Check harder.

 

[Kilau]

With no evidence of rampant fraud and results not being close enough to trigger an automatic recount, will these states even do a recount? Are they legally obligated? Will we have lawsuits that say the Green Party has no standing to ask for a recount?

 

[MogCakes]

Those get ugly. Necessary at times, but really ugly.

By which part of America, I wonder. Those fed up with the corruption in our system, those fed up with the system, or those who wanted to play the system to their advantage.

 

[gamechanger87]

i can see three positive things for democrats without the results being changed beyond a couple hundred votes:

1. gets democrats off the conspiracy train
2. raises awareness and interest in democrats in the process
3. solidifies for them what the actual problems are

like... if they came away from this election thinking 'it was russia! ...and hacked machines!' then actual introspection might not take place. at least this can settle matters so the real work can actually begin.

I think the problem is that no amount of evidence will ever dissuade them from getting off the train. There is always one more rock to look under.

Since the election, the democrats have shown little introspection about what went wrong.

So far all we have seen is Russia, Comey and Racists. Rather than a deep dive on why the party lost blue collar workers with its massive focus on identity politics and microtargeting and a willingness to ignore the people that feel they are left behind. This combined with their incredibly flawed candidate that they pushed forward baggage and all because they failed to build a credible back bench of candidates for any current or upcoming presidential election is how you lose an election.

On a state level the party is at its weakest in recent memory with minimal hope of getting it back and at a federal level they have a ton of senators at risk in 2018.

The democrats better hope that there is someone out there trying to right the ship, because as of now they are aggressive pushing Ellison as DNC chair which is moving in the opposite direction.

 

[Ashodin]

Getting closer to 2.3 mil

 

[seat]

Only $250K away from the goal now. Even faster than anyone thought it would be.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I can't tell if this is the denial or the bargaining stage.

 

[jack_package_200]

I can't tell if this is the denial or the bargaining stage.

Why not both?

I expect this will accomplish nothing. Trump won. White people carried his lying ass to the white house.

 

[gamechanger87]

"Their side" ("sides"! How sports-y!) lost for the second time in 16 years due to the same clusterfuck known as our electoral process, which simply doesn't work in and wasn't designed for our modern age. The only difference between now and 2000 is that we now have a difference of a couple million votes instead of a few thousand. Our electoral process has done a find job cheapening itself on its own. No help needed.

Trump rose to power simply because some people wanted a molotov cocktail thrown into the system. Why not throw another into our electoral system? Hold on to your ass, Scrooged, 'cause it's going to be bumpy ride.

You need a constitutional amendment to make that change or 38 states. Most of the states are small and the EC helps them. Why would they want to vote for it, just because a Change.org petition said so.

Even after this hurdle you need to look at who controls those states. Republicans have full control of 33 states. That's the legislature and the governor. Are they magically going to change it?

 

[Hyperactivity]

I think the problem is that no amount of evidence will ever dissuade them from getting off the train. There is always one more rock to look under.

Since the election, the democrats have shown little introspection about what went wrong.

So far all we have seen is Russia, Comey and Racists. Rather than a deep dive on why the party lost blue collar workers with its massive focus on identity politics and microtargeting and a willingness to ignore the people that feel they are left behind. This combined with their incredibly flawed candidate that they pushed forward baggage and all because they failed to build a credible back bench of candidates for any current or upcoming presidential election is how you lose an election.

On a state level the party is at its weakest in recent memory with minimal hope of getting it back and at a federal level they have a ton of senators at risk in 2018.

The democrats better hope that there is someone out there trying to right the ship, because as of now they are aggressive pushing Ellison as DNC chair which is moving in the opposite direction.

Ellison is not getting promoted as a black Muslim

Ellison is getting promoted for promising to focus on a grassroots level separate from the preexisting establishment

 

[leroidys]

You need a constitutional amendment to make that change or 38 states. Most of the states are small and the EC helps them. Why would they want to vote for it, just because a Change.org petition said so.

Even after this hurdle you need to look at who controls those states. Republicans have full control of 33 states. That's the legislature and the governor. Are they magically going to change it?

You don't need a constitutional amendment.

 

[jfkgoblue]

You need a constitutional amendment to make that change or 38 states. Most of the states are small and the EC helps them. Why would they want to vote for it, just because a Change.org petition said so.

Even after this hurdle you need to look at who controls those states. Republicans have full control of 33 states. That's the legislature and the governor. Are they magically going to change it?

2/3 house, 2/3 senate 3/4 state legislature (39). It is almost impossible to pass a constitutional amendment in modern times.

EC is never, ever going away, people need to get over that and continue to work within the system that we have.

You don't need a constitutional amendment.

Yes you do. The EC is in the Constitution. That compact would not get through the SCOTUS, violates article 1 section 10.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

2/3 house, 2/3 senate 3/4 state legislature (39). It is almost impossible to pass a constitutional amendment in modern times.

EC is never, ever going away, people need to get over that and continue to work within the system that we have.

The GOP is now in a position to easily further their recent voter suppression tactics to push things in their favor, so good luck with that.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Only $250K away from the goal now. Even faster than anyone thought it would be.

Yeah...I seriously thought it would have taken untill friday if it was gonna hit at all.

Now let's see if they'll keep their word and actually do the recount.

 

[Ashodin]

Filing fees covered in all states! Now just lawyers!

 

[gamechanger87]

Ellison is not getting promoted as a black Muslim

Ellison is getting promoted for promising to focus on a grassroots level separate from the preexisting establishment

TBH he's not really the ideal person to take back the heartland. Despite his disavowing of the Nation of Islam and his comments on 9/11, he's an incredibly easy target.

 

[gamechanger87]

2/3 house, 2/3 senate 3/4 state legislature (39). It is almost impossible to pass a constitutional amendment in modern times.

EC is never, ever going away, people need to get over that and continue to work within the system that we have.

Yes you do. The EC is in the Constitution. That compact would not get through the SCOTUS, violates article 1 section 10.

I wasn't going to dive in on the Congres side because that is at least in the realm of possibility ( but not really because the House is very far out of reach).

 

[Ashodin]

2.3 Mil. 200k to go!

 

[jfkgoblue]

I wasn't going to dive in on the Congres side because that is at least in the realm of possibility ( but not really because the House is very far out of reach).

And 67 senate votes would be damn near impossible

 

[ZoyosJD]

Only $250K away from the goal now. Even faster than anyone thought it would be.

Initial goal just for filing fees.

"The total cost is likely to be $6-7 million."

Still, if they can come up with this in such a short time full costs are sure to be covered.

$2.3 mil now.

 

[gamechanger87]

And 67 senate votes would be damn near impossible

Didn't the democrats have a supermajority back in 08 in the senate?

 

[leroidys]

2/3 house, 2/3 senate 3/4 state legislature (39). It is almost impossible to pass a constitutional amendment in modern times.

EC is never, ever going away, people need to get over that and continue to work within the system that we have.

Yes you do. The EC is in the Constitution. That compact would not get through the SCOTUS, violates article 1 section 10.

That's at best debatable
http://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/lpb/vol5/iss1/2/

 

[KingBroly]

Those are filing fees alone. The costs associated with recounts are a function of state law. Attorney's fees are likely to be another $2-3 million, then there are the costs of the statewide recount observers in all three states. The total cost is likely to be $6-7 million.

You guys should really read the fine print that's on the page.

 

[Calamari41]

Didn't the democrats have a supermajority back in 08 in the senate?

They "just" had 58 Dems and 2 Independents who caucused with them.

That's at best debatable
http://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/lpb/vol5/iss1/2/

Depending on who drops dead or drops out, conservatives will have a 5-4 majority on the Supreme Court (with one swing vote) and could theoretically and relatively reasonably have up to a 7-2 majority. This is almost guaranteed if Trump wins reelection and keeps the Senate.

 

[jfkgoblue]

Didn't the democrats have a supermajority back in 08 in the senate?

They had 60, at the height of their power coming off the Bush years into Obama with huge coat tails, and that lasted only a few months, now imagine adding 7 more votes to that.

60 is supermajority only in that you can cloture a filibuster with 60 votes, but for an amendment, you need 7 more votes.

That's at best debatable
http://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/lpb/vol5/iss1/2/

conservative SCOTUS...

And the compact clause isn't the only argument. There's the fact that it's a workaround the amendment process laid out in article 5, there's the equal suffrage in the senate clause.

 

[Zapages]

almost there... There needs to be 110K more needed... O_O

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

If even one of these recounts brings a surprise the whole election can be questioned

It's not about Hillary winning, it's about the integrity of the election.

 

[Cipherr]

If she actually preferred Trump to Clinton, I don't think she'd be asking for a recount. It's not like she'd get over 5% nationally by pumping up her vote total in these states.

Maybe, but she enjoyed piling on the only decent candidate right along side the conservatives. Then the shit all helped backfire on ALL of us... And now shes standing here looking like a fool and wants a recount in hopes of saving climate change and the like, when it would have been much easier to just NOT shoot yourself in the foot in the first place.

She and everyone like her can stuff it as far as Im concerned. These assholes do this shit and help fuck up elections, then sit and weep at the devastating outcomes after the fact; when people were warning them all along.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Maybe, but she enjoyed piling on the only decent candidate right along side the conservatives. Then the shit all helped backfire on ALL of us... And now shes standing here looking like a fool and wants a recount in hopes of saving climate change and the like, when it would have been much easier to just NOT shoot yourself in the foot in the first place.

She and everyone like her can stuff it as far as Im concerned. These assholes do this shit and help fuck up elections, then sit and weep at the devastating outcomes after the fact; when people were warning them all along.

No matter how this turns out, too many people were playing stupid games during this election cycle.

 

[darkwing]

how can a green party support a climate change denier

 

[shawnbuddy]

The goal is almost met. Now shit gets crazy.

 

[MIMIC]

lol $2.4 mil

 

[Kettch]

i can see three positive things for democrats without the results being changed beyond a couple hundred votes:

1. gets democrats off the conspiracy train
2. raises awareness and interest in democrats in the process
3. solidifies for them what the actual problems are

like... if they came away from this election thinking 'it was russia! ...and hacked machines!' then actual introspection might not take place. at least this can settle matters so the real work can actually begin.

I don't really agree that debunking one conspiracy theory will bring people to reality. They'll just move on to a new conspiracy theory instead. Or find new ways to believe in the old one anyway.

 

[brian577]

The goal is almost met. Now shit gets crazy.

You assume they'll actually find something.

Spoiler

They won't

 

[shawnbuddy]

You assume they'll actually find something.

Spoiler

They won't

I'd still feel better if they looked. And even if it just ruins Trump's day, it's worth it.

 

[soco]

literally like a minute away or something. 2.48m $


wow.


edit: i wanna know who added the 99 cents

 

[Snarfington]

Stein is basically fundraising using false hope here. Even though I'm sure she will use it as she says and I'm in the camp that would love for Hillary to pull a surprise win, it's not going to happen. Doing this using the public's money feels kind of emotionally manipulative.