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Jimmy Carter: Shut Down Guatanamo.

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Macam

Banned
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ATLANTA - Former President Carter on Tuesday called for the United States to shut down the Guantanamo Bay prison to demonstrate its commitment to human rights.

"The U.S. continues to suffer terrible embarrassment and a blow to our reputation ... because of reports concerning abuses of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo," Carter said after a two-day human rights conference at his Atlanta center.

Such reports have surfaced despite President Bush's "bold reminder that America is determined to promote freedom and democracy around the world," Carter said.

About 540 detainees are being held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Some have been there more than three years without being charged with a crime. Most were captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan in 2001 and 2002 and were sent to Guantanamo Bay in hope of extracting useful intelligence about the al-Qaida terrorist network.

Carter said the United States needs to make sure no detainees are held incommunicado and that all are told the charges against them.

Despite his criticism of Guantanamo Bay, Carter said Amnesty International should not have called the prison "the gulag of our time" in a report last month. President Bush has termed the report by the human-rights group "absurd."

Carter said the alleged abuses at Guantanamo Bay could never compare with the forced labor camps operated by the former Soviet Union.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050608...uBG2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

It seems that the "gulag" comparison is going to be interpreted as a direct comparison, despite AI's insistence that it's not a direct comparison but rather one with similarities such as regarding ghost detainees, but that's par for the course, not unlike how most people still think the Newsweek article was directly responsible for the riots and deaths in Afghanistan.

There's also an additional article outlining some interesting aspects about detainees on Gitmo and Gitmo itself, so I'll go ahead and post that here since I think it's pertinent and interesting:

What Is Rumsfeld Defending?
It wasn't easy, but the Supreme Court, in Rasul V. Bush, ruled 6-3 that detainees at Guantanamo Bay may bring habeas corpus petitions in U.S. courts. The federal government interpreted that in narrow terms and, rather than actually allow court trials for the 750 detainees (now 550), the administration granted secret administrative reviews but not legal counsel and the petitions for actual court hearings continue to make their way through the legal system.

Guantanamo, a city state of 10,000 with a high school, McDonalds, Starbucks, roads, and only one purpose, leased from Cuba for $3,500 a year ($2,000 worth of gold in 1903), is supposed to be the place where the really really bad guys go. And there are really really bad guys there, maybe as many as twenty. Fifteen have been designated for trial and four charged with crimes.

The detainees are held indefinitely, subjected to (very well documented) spontaneous abuse. Six months ago more permanent facilities were built for the inmates. Prior to that they were held in fenced in pens. For their first weeks at camp they were not even allowed to move from their mattresses.

There are three ways out of Guantanamo. The first is death -suicide attempts are routine. The second is the court, but death is more likely. The third and best chance is if your country insists its citizens be released. That's what happened to Mamdouh Habib, an Australian who was released to his home where he now lives under a sort of low level house arrest (his passport has not been returned to him). But Habib is accused of plotting to hijack a plane and of providing the 9/11 terrorists with martial arts training. If the allegations are true then he is one of the truly bad guys. Not to be confused with the Bahraini citizen who lived in Pakistan, slipped over the border into Afghanistan, where he proclaimed he would make Jihad, before changing his mind and going home where he was later arrested.

In other words, a prisoner who wanted to fight Jihad but never did sits in prison indefinitely while a man who might have actually helped train the 9/11 terrorists is released to something less than house arrest in Australia (and is given $10,000 to appear on 60 Minutes) and will likely never go to trial. The new legal strategy of the lawyers who have stepped up to defend these clients is to visit their origin country and try to persuade the legislators there to insist on their client's freedom. Which is why the seven law firms that stepped up to defend the inmates following Rasul V. Bush divided the clients primarily by nationality.

The government cases on most of these people are soft. One was in an al Qaeda training camp for a week, in 1989. Another gave money to the Taliban. Still another had been accused of a 1996 bombing by the Saudi Government and then released. The official position of the American Government is that Hezbollah (a Lebanese Shiite group) was responsible for the bombing -the man is a Sunni. We have ten thousand people in Guantanamo looking after these prisoners many of whom if not innocent, are at least not high security risks. Non-the-less we torture them and keep them in solitary confinement for years. And the bad PR in these countries where these people are from just feeds the terrorist recruiting machine. And this is our money our government is spending to keep them there.

There's a reason we have a constitution, why we guarantee a right to a fair trial. Guantanamo Bay is not just an awful, expensive, misused facility, it's a slap in the face to the very idea of America. There's better ways to fight this war. There has to be.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/stephen-elliott/what-is-rumsfeld-defendin_2247.html
 

White Man

Member
He's a horrible, horrible man. For the love of god, he won a Nobel Peace prize, which ranks him alongside such evil entities as Kissenger and Yasser Arafat. Listen to him now, and what's next? Gay marriage, man on dog, Steve Miller appreciation threads. Where would the line be drawn?

EDIT: Also, he looks like the new, evil Pope now. I think they must have evil implants now.
 
Yeah, Carter 08!

You can thank this douche for the US needing a camp at Gitmo because this pussy couldn't get things done 26 years ago. Fuck this idiot, go be somewhat useful and build more homes for lower income families.
 

Dilbert

Member
King Jippo said:
You can thank this douche for the US needing a camp at Gitmo because this pussy couldn't get things done 26 years ago.
Y'know, before reacting instinctively, I'd love to hear your reasoning on this one.
 
King Jippo said:
Yeah, Carter 08!

You can thank this douche for the US needing a camp at Gitmo because this pussy couldn't get things done 26 years ago. Fuck this idiot, go be somewhat useful and build more homes for lower income families.

Nice, I'm used to hearing the "It's all Clintons fault" card by the GOPPers. But now, they're busting out Carter!

:lol
 

Drozmight

Member
Sure, he had some fuck ups as president (the shah, afghanistan, east timor) but I actually do agree with him here about shutin' that embarassment down.
 

Drozmight

Member
-jinx- said:
Y'know, before reacting instinctively, I'd love to hear your reasoning on this one.
His administration started training the resistance fighters against the Soviets in Afghanistan, including the Taliban. I believe.
 

MC Safety

Member
Drozmight said:
Sure, he had some fuck ups as president (the shah, afghanistan, east timor) but I actually do agree with him here about shutin' that embarassment down.

Don't forget the killer rabbit. And Billy! And the Panama Canal.
 
Incognito said:
Nice, I'm used to hearing the "It's all Clintons fault" card by the GOPPers. But now, they're busting out Carter!
I'm not a member of the GOP. Nor am I apart of any group so I don't see how "they're busting out" on him. I am. I've never blamed Clinton for not preventing 9/11 or capturing Bin Laden during his term(s) in office. But I will blame Carter for dropping the ball and not nipping this situation in the bud when he had the chance to do so. Screw whatever political party you cheerlead for and go revisit the facts.

That said, I agree with his statement of closing down Gitmo. But given his history & responsibility in the overall matter, he should really shut the fuck up as he has no leg to stand on.
 
King Jippo said:
I've never blamed Clinton for not preventing 9/11 or capturing Bin Laden during his term(s) in office.
No, he didn't specify you. He was talking about "GOPPers" in general.

That said, I agree with his statement of closing down Gitmo. But given his history & responsibility in the overall matter, he should really shut the fuck up as he has no leg to stand on.
In other words, a person is still responsible for actions (mistakes in your opinion) 25 years ago?
 
I would say that Carter was not a very good president, and espcially the part about throwing his support behind the shah of Iran.

I would however have to say that since his presidency he has done a lot to earn my respect, especially through his charitable efforts, and preventing a bloodbath in Korea around '93 or '94 (which treaty was then underfunded during the GOP takeover in congress, which then got recognized around 98 again when Kim Jong Il got all...Jong-y, which was underfunded AGAIN by dubya, with threats, which results in the pickle we are in now.)
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
As I understand it, Carter's major mistake was only considering the merits of the ruler then currently in power but not the power vacuum left when said ruler was unseated. Not too different from how the Taliban and Saddam were treated, sadly.
 
Hammy said:
No, he didn't specify you. He was talking about "GOPPers" in general.
I know. I was being facetious.
In other words, a person is still responsible for actions (mistakes in your opinion) 25 years ago?
A person forever owns and is responsible for their actions - even in death.
 
Hitokage said:
As I understand it, Carter's major mistake was only considering the merits of the ruler then currently in power but not the power vacuum left when said ruler was unseated. Not too different from how the Taliban and Saddam were treated, sadly.

Well, he didn't have to dispose him, but he didn't have to say that shah was "One of the truest friends America has" (something along those line) at a dinner in Iran. That just fueled the anti American sentiment and killed a lot of hope for the more moderate Iranians pissed off at the shah.
 
ConfusingJazz said:
I would say that Carter was not a very good president, and espcially the part about throwing his support behind the shah of Iran.
Yeah, "especially" since the alternative is working out great for everyone these days. I'm not going to defend the Shah as that incident was a beautiful fuck up too. But, you know, lesser of two evils.
 

RiZ III

Member
King Jippo said:
A person forever owns and is responsible for their actions - even in death.

Wow, so once youve made a big mistake theres no turning back eh? Might as well just go on a killing spree and and it all.
 
King Jippo said:
Yeah, "especially" since the alternative is working out great for everyone these days. I'm not going to defend the Shah as that incident was a beautiful fuck up too. But, you know, lesser of two evils.

Well, another dicatorship right next door that was all buddy buddy with the US in 1977 turned out alright, didn't he?

I think the entire situation of Iran was doomed, and we were in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. I would really have to look back and think about a halfway decent way to handle it, but I dunno. The shah had pissed too many people off, and I think he would have been disposed of with or without American support.
 

Drozmight

Member
King Jippo said:
I know. I was being facetious.

A person forever owns and is responsible for their actions - even in death.

I guess, but he's done some really good things, especially out of office. I mean I think he was the first real president to actually start talking with the Soviets again. Helped create a peace deal between Egypt and Israel. Only thing I think he really sucks for is East Timor... I think he was in the area a mere 24 hours before the shit started and I don't think he sent an intervention force or did anything.
 
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