Jimquisition: Dragon's Frown
- Thread starter dmr87
- Start date
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I don't know. I tend to think that reviewers can critique a game any way they want. If a reviewer doesn't like New Super Mario Bros. because it's not enough like Gears of War, that's fine. It's fine for me to say they're fucking nuts for it, as well.
This video isn't saying we, the reader, can't/shouldn't criticize reviews we disagree with. Jim is just saying we shouldn't let it dictate the conversation, and that doing so is actually a disservice to the game we are seeking to defend.
The same could be said with you somewhat. When the sorceress runs or does a spell, her boobs bounce.
That's pretty much it regarding "contoring themselves in sexualized poses"
The Amazon, as far as the gameplay I've seen, does nothing remotely sexual in her movement and combat.
The Elf isn't sexualized at all.
Some people make it seem like the damn female characters are purely using their ass and tits as weapons. The hyperbole exists on both sides with defenders AND detractors.
Edit: and unrealistically proportioned? In Amazons case, yes.
But if you're reffering to Sorceress? I feel bad you haven't been lucky enough to view super curvy women in public
BibiMaghoo
Member
I'm not sure I ever take offense at this kind of content being in a game.
I take offense at the reason for it's inclusion instead.
Why does it include it? It is relevant in context? What was the purpose of portraying something in a specific way.
These questions and answers are relevant when looking at the game as a whole, at who the game was made for, at the quality of the games direction, be that lore or artistically.
The sad fact of the matter is, that 99% of the time, the answers seem to be to attract male adolescence, that it is not justified in context, that the purpose of its existence was to attract a horny man child to the cover and buy the game. That the developer took the cheap thrills route to attract attention, rather than risking a game stand on it's own merits.
This. This does offend me. It lowers the tone and quality of our hobby as a whole, the more it occurs.
I have no idea how this applies to DC, as I have never played the game, and have seen little of it, but it is entirely relevant to looking at a game, and judging it's worth, which is what a review is.
I take offense at the reason for it's inclusion instead.
Why does it include it? It is relevant in context? What was the purpose of portraying something in a specific way.
These questions and answers are relevant when looking at the game as a whole, at who the game was made for, at the quality of the games direction, be that lore or artistically.
The sad fact of the matter is, that 99% of the time, the answers seem to be to attract male adolescence, that it is not justified in context, that the purpose of its existence was to attract a horny man child to the cover and buy the game. That the developer took the cheap thrills route to attract attention, rather than risking a game stand on it's own merits.
This. This does offend me. It lowers the tone and quality of our hobby as a whole, the more it occurs.
I have no idea how this applies to DC, as I have never played the game, and have seen little of it, but it is entirely relevant to looking at a game, and judging it's worth, which is what a review is.
lifa-cobex
Member
"mmm good coffee"
Didn't relies gaf was too concerned with review scores?
He made some fine points though. Nothing wrong with a bit of diversity in all aspects.
Didn't relies gaf was too concerned with review scores?
He made some fine points though. Nothing wrong with a bit of diversity in all aspects.
Have you seen dat ass stomp?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUI052vh44w
:42 seconds.
And I'm not sure how you can say there is nothing remotely sexual her in movement--that's the best part of her movement!
She also has the face down ass up when grounded.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
People need to also understand that the majority of the reviews were written by men. Polygon's was written by a woman gamer. I can totally understand why she would have an issue with the art style and her opinions of it are completely justified. Like I said before, if she reviewed the game solely on the art style, the game probably would have been scored much lower than a 6.5, so it's not like she's saying "don't play this game cause of the boobies". She's entitled to her opinion and it's going to be different than a male's perspective.
I can totally see some people who are excited for this game picking a copy up and not enjoying it as much as others. It will be repetitive and it will be short, but some will enjoy it's RPG elements and padding while others will not. A 6.5 for a game of this type is not surprising at all in this day and age, and that is not even taking the art style into account here.
Just think of the game if the role reversed here. If I bought Dragon's Crown and the art style included a bunch of naked dudes with bulging shlongs running around and ejaculating on people with their giant wieners, I think I would be weirded out by the game a little too.
I can totally see some people who are excited for this game picking a copy up and not enjoying it as much as others. It will be repetitive and it will be short, but some will enjoy it's RPG elements and padding while others will not. A 6.5 for a game of this type is not surprising at all in this day and age, and that is not even taking the art style into account here.
Just think of the game if the role reversed here. If I bought Dragon's Crown and the art style included a bunch of naked dudes with bulging shlongs running around and ejaculating on people with their giant wieners, I think I would be weirded out by the game a little too.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
As others have mentioned on here, he's both right and wrong.
It's silly to drown out any and all positivity of a game's reception and just focus on a bad review. However, reviewers definitely need to be held to task for the content of the review, not necessarily the review score. I haven't read Polygon's review of DC, but I remember EGM's review of Aliens: Colonial Marines... shit read like PR, and the final review score came off as objectively ridiculous, considering how damn near unplayable that game actually is. So, deservedly, the reviewer was held to task for it...
When people like you and other realize that it isn't a crime to display sexually-suggestive themes and has nothing to do with adolescence (as if somehow grown men and women are incapable of of being attracted to this sort of thing, or at least should be incapable of it), the better off the medium will be...
It's silly to drown out any and all positivity of a game's reception and just focus on a bad review. However, reviewers definitely need to be held to task for the content of the review, not necessarily the review score. I haven't read Polygon's review of DC, but I remember EGM's review of Aliens: Colonial Marines... shit read like PR, and the final review score came off as objectively ridiculous, considering how damn near unplayable that game actually is. So, deservedly, the reviewer was held to task for it...
When people like you and other realize that it isn't a crime to display sexually-suggestive themes and has nothing to do with adolescence (as if somehow grown men and women are incapable of of being attracted to this sort of thing, or at least should be incapable of it), the better off the medium will be...
SolidSnakex
Member
How in the world is that a role reversal?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Yep, respectable and it's only one persons/website opinion.
Actually think the review was pretty good. Am I upset that they gave the game a 6.5? No, why should I care? People need to grow up and realize that nobody is casting aspersions on them for liking the things they like. Well, maybe some people are, but fuck those people. The game is already selling great in JP, and there are tons of glowing reviews on other sites. Let Polygon be Polygon.
The reviewer didn't like the game's art style, enough so that it negatively effected the score. If you have no problems with the art style, add 2 points or something.
The reviewer didn't like the game's art style, enough so that it negatively effected the score. If you have no problems with the art style, add 2 points or something.
Yeah but he never said reviewers can't be criticized or debated (or as you put it "put to task "). Simply that people shouldn't rage out and only focus solely on a review because its negative. What you are arguing is that reviewers who give a review that is bad (content wise) should be criticized. He never said that he's against that. Just that people should be adult, civil and debate the reasons they think the review was bad. But not to let that be the only focus of the discussion of the game.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Wasn't aware the females in this game did things of this nature... oh wait they don't. God damn this is a stupid ass post
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
Even though my example is over the top, if the men were overly sexualized in this game, the comments may be a bit different.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Good points Jimithy.
It is, on average, in the United States.
Polygon can make whatever review scale they want, and they have as it's clearly there for everyone to read, but that's not going to magically break cultural perceptions of numerical scores.
In the US public education system, a 6.5 or 65% is considered "Below average", even if that may not translate 1:1 to Polygon's scale.
So, when I see a 6.5, I think "shit" and "not worth anyone's time", even if that's not really fair to Polygon. Can't help it, I was literally raised that way. A 5/10 is not average in my mind, a 7.5/10 is. Most American game review sites go by a 7.5=average scale. Polygon chooses not to. So, scores are going to feel dissonant sometimes.
spandexmonkey
Banned
I certainly hope we get games that pander to an audience that enjoys highly sexualized men some day.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Altered Beast remake let's go?
I forgot
She kicks her legs out and shows some skin, what the hay
Never seen the face down thing your reffering too.
My thing was that out of those 4 moves/animations between 2 characters.... Thats probably less than 10% of their total animations in-game.
And I haven't played it yet, Im going by media (Which there is alot out), Ill be happy to revise when I play through it.
But some seem to be acting as if the females are attacking by swinging on stripper poles or using twerk special finishers on bosses... :?
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Video game scores work like School Grades. 6.5 is a D.
There are reviews that deserve to be trashed, IGN's ridiculous God Hand review being the most notable example, but most of the ones that have gotten attacked in recent memory aren't of that caliber.
A review is, at the end of a day, someone else's opinion. And if the reviewer at Polygon felt the games art style impacted her experience enough to drop the score then I can respect that.
She still gave it a 6.5, which says she thought the game was good despite her problems with the art and finding the game repetitive.
A review is, at the end of a day, someone else's opinion. And if the reviewer at Polygon felt the games art style impacted her experience enough to drop the score then I can respect that.
She still gave it a 6.5, which says she thought the game was good despite her problems with the art and finding the game repetitive.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
It is, on metacritic standards...
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
It's a joke dude, chill. Same point, it would be different if it was overly sexualized dudes.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Gave a game that he felt was fun but had some issues with the graphics and monotony a 6.5. Whats the problem?
NoirVisage
Banned
That's the Moral of the story, the "outrage" wasn't even as bad as the Last of Us or Uncharted 3, it was all kinda Polygon gonna polygon..I just wondered if this was the reviewers first review on polygon's site outside of that, whatever. glad they closed the review thread, all it was doing was giving that lame site exposure.
How are the character designs and art style not a part of the game? Games are much more than what the player, and a reviewer should be discussing the visuals, score, story, and aesthetics. Dragon Crown's character designs are very much a part of "the game itself" and if a reviewer's experience his hampered by these designs then he or she is allowed to say that they detracted from the experience. If they don't bother you, then go enjoy the game. No one is stopping you.
I beat the game with the Amazon last night, and yeah, it's definitely in her movements; it's hard not for it to be in her movements because her tits are huge and her ass is large.
When she's grounded, her ass is up, and you shake a bit when trying to get up, by mashing buttons. She squeezes her titties together when coming to an abrupt halt.
And I'm 100% okay with this.
Hilariously enough, my "worst video game review of all time" is IGN/David Clayman's Jade Empire review, which actually rates the game way too high!
EDIT: EGM/Brandon Justice's 9/10 for Aliens: Colonial Marines is up there.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
But...it isn't.
As I implied in my edited post... it's the ones getting offended at a game like DC for it's suggestive themes and telling everyone else to grow up, that have the most growing up to do.
I wonder what some of you thought of the hot tub scene in the movie "Hall Pass"...
LMAO, I would pay to see that, if only for the lulz at the outrage that would cause...
I wonder what some of you thought of the hot tub scene in the movie "Hall Pass"...
LMAO, I would pay to see that, if only for the lulz at the outrage that would cause...
RoninChaos
Member
Please see the other post I quoted below. This isn't even deniable. The knight'a standing animation doesn't have him with his ass in a thong that points towards the screen, and squeezing his balls together when he stops from running. The amazon, however, does. Her ass points to the screen when she stops walking, when she jumps, she squeezes her tits together when she stops.
And also, I like how you suggested I haven't seen curvy women. The sorcess' proportions have moved far beyond the definition of curvy and into hilarity. But you're just projecting what you think my opinion comes from (a lack of seeing curvy women in public) and I guess that's how you want to rationalize it. Doesn't change the argument or the explicit sexualization of the amazon or the sorceress.
And, for the record, I don't have an issue with a game like this being made. I'm all for sexuality with context. This game doesn't appear to have any besides the art designer wanting to draw watermelon tits.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
This isn't really news. Polygon's reviews have been kind of ridiculous lately; giving TLoU a 7.5, SimCity a 9.5, and Dead Space 3 a 9.5 tells me that I don't really need to take them seriously ever again. They're entitled to their opinions, but I'm entitled to believe they're bonkers and not worth paying attention to.
spandexmonkey
Banned
Featuring the designs of Hirohiko Araki, lets do this!
This does piss me off, it's such a waste of effort to cry about a one off review. I see this on Rotten Tomatoes for movies all the time, something like a new Batman comes out, first 10 reviews, 9 are positive, the 10th one has 250+ user comments telling them they are wrong and should fuck themselves, even if they have not seen the movie while the reviewer has.
This is some sad justification mentality or something, it's even worse when I see people saying shit like 'It got an 8, guess it's going to bomb", how about fuck that, 8 is a GREAT score. It's only because of this broken ass 7-10 scale most sites use that makes 8 seem even remotely not like a high score.
It's completely possible for a reviewer to go into a game expecting one thing and getting another, or being offended or put off by one part of the game and that makes the rest of the game look not as good. This is why there is not a single review, because the ideas that influence one reviewer may not another. This is why I tend to use RPGFan for RPGs and AdventureGamers for... Adventure games, 99% of the time, they score much closer to my opinions than other sites.
Of course I am more likely to go to a Giant Bomb quicklook for games im on the fence about, as they seem to give more honest opinions.
I've seen what Jim is talking about plenty of times and it makes me sick too, just play the game and don't stress out.
This is some sad justification mentality or something, it's even worse when I see people saying shit like 'It got an 8, guess it's going to bomb", how about fuck that, 8 is a GREAT score. It's only because of this broken ass 7-10 scale most sites use that makes 8 seem even remotely not like a high score.
It's completely possible for a reviewer to go into a game expecting one thing and getting another, or being offended or put off by one part of the game and that makes the rest of the game look not as good. This is why there is not a single review, because the ideas that influence one reviewer may not another. This is why I tend to use RPGFan for RPGs and AdventureGamers for... Adventure games, 99% of the time, they score much closer to my opinions than other sites.
Of course I am more likely to go to a Giant Bomb quicklook for games im on the fence about, as they seem to give more honest opinions.
I've seen what Jim is talking about plenty of times and it makes me sick too, just play the game and don't stress out.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Except, that's not true. And that's part of the problem in that so many people feel this way, while the reviewers don't.
No, it's not:
DC factually has no negative reviews on Meta Critic.
Again this is part of the problem. People read review scores in a way that the reviewer doesn't intend. This is why review scores are worthless and should just be done away with. Readers can't handle them, as cases like this prove.
Reader: You said you didn't like the game!
Reviewer: No I didn't, I said it was okay. Gave it a 6.5.
Reader: Yeah, 6.5 that's like a D!
Reviewer: This isn't school.
Reader: ...
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
I'm sorry but I could totally understand if the graphic nature put somebody off playing the last of us and thus resulted in them docking points. Anybody who read the review would instantly know if that was an issue for them and could learn if the game might still be worth playing despite that one thing.
Also being reductionist isn't helping anyone, she gave it a 6.5 because she didn't like the game that much beyond just the aesthetics. In the review she states the combat is fun at first but gets tired after a while which is an issue when the whole game revolves around grinding.
So, the US public school system's scale.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
absolutely, but you have to admit that niche reviews do benefit the niche gamer, polygons tastes are in line with some gamers out there for sure. my friend didn't think the last of us was too hot either.
Yeeeaaaaahhhhhh, Polygon is shit. I think this outrage has less to do with their review scores specifically, and more to do with their lack of sense. I mean, in what way is DS3 better than TLoU?
tearsofash
Member
I can't believe that one guy in the corner didn't do shots with the rest of us. What a weirdo. I'm going to stop having fun ;____;
Who are you to say how much something should "weigh" on a review? If someone thinks Wind Waker is the best Zelda thanks largely to the art, why is someone than not allowed think unfavorably about a game for exactly the same reason?
It was her central point in the entire review, it would be naive to think that the artstyle (the portrayal of women in this artstyle) was not THE reason the game got a bad score.
In this day and age? Yes it is.
were they reviewed by the same person?