Jimquisition: Sky Hype

All the YouTube comments I have seen so far are people acting civil. What the heck I wanted to see these nms zealots he was talking about. Nms was never in my radar but I'm surprised people where this crazy about it.
 
MattKeil said:
Whatever my disappointments with the game may be, the fact that my Swagasaurus has brought joy makes up for it all.
Click to expand...

Good on you! But in the context of the tweet it seems more like people are laughing about how shit NMS is unironically rather than how funny that creature walks.
 
gossi said:
I go a death threat over this game (not via NeoGAF). I posted packet captures proving there's no network traffic for multiplayer co-op/PVP, and yeah.. within a few hours, death threat from somebody with a NMS avatar. I'm a fan of the game so it was quite... funny? Scary? Who knows.
Click to expand...

I saw your posts about those packet captures and was super interested to hear! Same for the data mining that has been going on. That's crazy, man. Well the foundation for my original post about the camp of "non-fans" being more shitty is starting to turn to sand.

I think overall, I don't appreciate the subtleties of humor that relies on snark and hyperbole of the like that Jim Sterling does unless I really spend time with it enough to understand the person behind it. I used to get pissed at Jeff Gerstman thinking he was just being a jerk about certain games until I listened and read his stuff for years. Now I can practically tell what he'll think of a game before he says anything about it publicly (and always enjoy his perspective). My main beef with Jim Sterling's work is that every time I see one of his videos, he's bitching about something in now typical youtuber hyperbolic fashion, and that's just not my jam. I'm guessing that the humor is lost amongst the legions of assholes out there and feel they have to revolt when he says something they don't like.

Personally, I'm an IdleThumbs podcast guy. I really enjoy how they talk about and critique games and in some instances the culture and communities. I'm not used to much salt outside of the bits on something like the Bombcast.
 
border said:
MOLYNEUX SYNDROME

1. Show off ambitious project
2. Answer questions coyly, keep aspects of your design shrouded in secrecy
3. Allow people to imagine the "secret" parts of your game as being better and more complex than you could reasonably accomplish. Never do anything to dissuade people that whatever crazy simulation they've dreamed up is not the game you are making. If someone comes up with an interesting or compelling idea for the game and asks you about it, just give them a non-committal answer like "We're thinking about it" or "We're working on stuff like that!"
4. Release game and profit from largely imagined expectations, deal with huge PR fallout and controversy


I think you'll find that the most high-profile Molyneux projects also had a kind of toxic community around them. Hello Games' willingness to let unrealistic expectations fester has created the current situation.
Click to expand...

Damn.. this post is totally on point.
 
gossi said:
I go a death threat over this game (not via NeoGAF). I posted packet captures proving there's no network traffic for multiplayer co-op/PVP, and yeah.. within a few hours, death threat from somebody with a NMS avatar. I'm a fan of the game so it was quite... funny? Scary? Who knows.
Click to expand...

Death threats on neogaf for someone posting datamined facts?
The NMS fanbase really marks a new low.
 
K.Jack said:
I wish the hype train with blinders on mentality wasn't so prevalent on GAF.
Click to expand...

But I really think if there's one thing I learned about GAF, it's that there's an avid fanbase for any game. Don't even try to set foot into a JRPG thread if you want to talk about Witcher or Mass Effect. It's also what makes it great. I can go into the OT of something completely niche like Etrian Odyssey IV for the 3DS and find any bit of info I need (even if I actually hate how the female models look like prepubescent children). Destiny got a lot of flak when it came out, yet it's almost cool to talk about again. I remember not really liking The Division that much, but the threads for that was full of praise and sharing. I just tuned it out and wasn't really a part of it. It's when two or more different hefty gaming communities end up clashing as is the case here with NMS that we end up with toxic bloodbaths. The fans will keep playing, and the non-fans will move on. But right now, it's all the rage for every party to try and get every last word in.
 
Akim said:
people like to get excited about things (me included)
Click to expand...

There's obviously nothing wrong or unnatural about getting excited for a new game.

It's when the room to have a dissenting opinion is suffocated, that a line has been crossed.
 
convo said:
Good on you! But in the context of the tweet it seems more like people are laughing about how shit NMS is unironically rather than how funny that creature walks.
Click to expand...

That's their problem. I've put 60+ hours into the game and do not think it's remotely shit, but I think that "expectations" video is hilarious. While I find the creature charming and tremendously enjoy the game, what that video is demonstrating is not wrong in the slightest. Hell, I haven't seen anything remotely resembling a sauropod anywhere in the game.
 
There can't be any network traffic. The game had a trainer within two hours and no one is getting warnings/bans on steam. Which means it's a straight single player game. Also I blocked it in my firewall, but not steam and it fires right up. Just doesn't let you upload your discoveries.

Game is pretty mediocre really. I guess I'm just not an indie guy. None of the really notable titles have done anything for me.
 
Only a few minutes into the video and having paid no attention to how the community(or fuckwits) have reacted to minor delays and dev issues as Jim pointed out has me reeling to the point I would consider abandoning this juvenile hobby purely for the sake of dissociating myself from some of the biggest scum polluting the earth.

I mean..fuck. Thank god for Jim indeed.
 
Wait until the crowbcat video comes out. If you think this is funny that video will take it to a whole other level.
 
Inviusx said:
Wait until the crowbcat video comes out. If you think this is funny that video will take it to a whole other level.
Click to expand...

That's nice to have faith but what if his video doesn't deliver what if, after all, he could not go upon his promises?

I'm joking really, I like his videos too
 
Great episode Jim. Thank God for you. NMS has been a huge disappointment for me and I didn't appreciate the cagey statements and bullshit fed us by Sean. The E3 2014 trailer was scripted and isn't how the game plays at all. It's mostly grinding materials and shit.
 
Let me just warn you. If you think this video is about you, and you're thinking to yourself "Oh I don't do any of those things", then the video's not about you. Okay? If you don't think the video should apply to you, don't behave as if it does.
Click to expand...
It's sad that it's come to* the point where this disclaimer is necessary


*We were long past the point when "Gamers Don't Have to Be Your Audience" was published TBPH
 
dangeraaron10 said:
You're the best, Jimbo.

Love your work, and this is one of my favorite videos.

Edit: Except the Interview with a Vampire bit, I really don't like that movie, makes my stomach turn something awful. Other than that, good show.
Click to expand...

Interview with the Vampire is a great film, this game, not so much, by the look of it.
 
border said:
MOLYNEUX SYNDROME

1. Show off ambitious project
2. Answer questions coyly, keep aspects of your design shrouded in secrecy
3. Allow people to imagine the "secret" parts of your game as being better and more complex than you could reasonably accomplish. Never do anything to dissuade people that whatever crazy simulation they've dreamed up is not the game you are making. If someone comes up with an interesting or compelling idea for the game and asks you about it, just give them a non-committal answer like "We're thinking about it" or "We're working on stuff like that!"
4. Release game and profit from largely imagined expectations, deal with huge PR fallout and controversy


I think you'll find that the most high-profile Molyneux projects also had a kind of toxic community around them. Hello Games' willingness to let unrealistic expectations fester has created the current situation.
Click to expand...
Expertly said. That's exactly the case here.
 
You know I am a NMS fan and I agree with Jim. I am surprised though that he didn't bring up the main reason for the backlash against his review, on some subconscious level the fanatics know he's right but for whatever reason they can't come to terms with that.
 
border said:
I think you'll find that the most high-profile Molyneux projects also had a kind of toxic community around them. Hello Games' willingness to let unrealistic expectations fester has created the current situation.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you're right, and I do like this post.
What I would say though, is it the responsibility of the Murray's and the Molyneux's to temper the expectations of other people? I don't believe it is personally. You'll spend more of your time telling people what you can't do in your game than actually working on it.

The responsibility is on the individual to not get carried away imagining possibilities on an unreleased video game. For ages and ages this game looked like nothing more than a "look at the dinosaur" simulator (what do you actually do??) and that's essentially what it ended up being.

People gotta wise up, and stop pre-ordering stuff unless they're absolutely prepared to end up paying for something they might not like.
 
dark10x said:
Expertly said. That's exactly the case here.
Click to expand...

I think the developers were hoping to launch with a functional game that had enough features to keep players interested in it while they patch the shit out it in the oncoming months. The project is so overly ambitious that the small team working on it just couldn't make due with their promises.
 
border said:
MOLYNEUX SYNDROME

1. Show off ambitious project
2. Answer questions coyly, keep aspects of your design shrouded in secrecy
3. Allow people to imagine the "secret" parts of your game as being better and more complex than you could reasonably accomplish. Never do anything to dissuade people that whatever crazy simulation they've dreamed up is not the game you are making. If someone comes up with an interesting or compelling idea for the game and asks you about it, just give them a non-committal answer like "We're thinking about it" or "We're working on stuff like that!"
4. Release game and profit from largely imagined expectations, deal with huge PR fallout and controversy


I think you'll find that the most high-profile Molyneux projects also had a kind of toxic community around them. Hello Games' willingness to let unrealistic expectations fester has created the current situation.
Click to expand...

Geoff Keighly's Game Awards, was exactly the right stage to show it off. What should have happened is it should have disappeared completely from the radar and should have been reintroduced as stealthy as possible.

I'm a 100% sure, the same game, without the marketing budget, the previews, and hype, would have been reviewed better and hailed as a game changer (yet made less money of course).

No informations about unlimited worlds, animals and galaxies. No tech information of procedurally generated worlds. No nothing. Just that tiny trailer from 2/3 years ago.

The expectation grew out of controll, and a year ago I couldn't shake the feeling that the pressure on Hello Games and Sean personally grew out of controll aswell. He didn't want to answer questions, and he sure as hell didn't look comfortable on Sony's press event stage.

Sure, when I say now, I expect Jim would have reviewed it completely different if it wouldn't have had the marketing / previews around it, I take in account that the expectations/hype around this game affected him in his review.
And fair enough, Jim or anybody else can say "It hasn't affected me!" and that is the answer any reviewer should say, but that is just complete bollocks. Nobody can free himself of expectations unless you live in an hermetically sealed bunker without any media access.

Yeah these are hypothetical scenarios. A scenario where you didn't know about the lofty high target of delivering infinite worlds. A scenario where you didn't have the info that the game procedurally generated worlds.
A scenario where you start playing a game, have no idea about it's scope and suddenely realize it's scope is endless in broadness.
I think Jim and everyone else would have been more forgiving that the game's depth doesn't offer the same scope.
 
Rule of thumb #1: Do not expect innovative AAA quality games from indie developers.

Rule of thumb #2: Do not expect functional or complete games on release day (indie or AAA).

Rule of thumb #3: Remeber rule #1 and #2.

This should save a lot of salty tears.
 
Mogwai said:
Rule of thumb #1: Do not expect innovative AAA quality games from indie developers.

Rule of thumb #2: Do not expect functional or complete games on release day (indie or AAA).

Rule of thumb #3: Remeber rule #1 and #2.

This should save a lot of salty tears.
Click to expand...

Holding developers to a standard is the basic minimum to ensure you don't get screwed over as a consumer. And it's cute that you put innovative and AAA in the same sentence.

DerZuhälter;213795768 said:
Sure, when I say now, I expect Jim would have reviewed it completely different if it wouldn't have had the marketing / previews around it, I take in account that the expectations/hype around this game affected him in his review.
And fair enough, Jim or anybody else can say "It hasn't affected me!" and that is the answer any reviewer should say, but that is just complete bollocks. Nobody can free himself of expectations unless you live in an hermetically sealed bunker without any media access.

Yeah these are hypothetical scenarios. A scenario where you didn't know about the lofty high target of delivering infinite worlds. A scenario where you didn't have the info that the game procedurally generated worlds.
A scenario where you start playing a game, have no idea about it's scope and suddenely realize it's scope is endless in broadness.
I think Jim and everyone else would have been more forgiving that the game's depth doesn't offer the same scope.
Click to expand...

Procedurally generated content doesn't excuse lack of depth. You can exponentially increase the scope while maintaining the same cost. It should mean a greater emphasis on the mechanics since the devs have freed themselves from dealing with level creation. Jim found the main gameplay loop boring, something no amount of expectation or marketing can ever change.
 
I agree with the lambasting of hype culture, but I've frankly seen more toxicity from the No Man Sky detractors than fans. The latter just seem to have some cringeworthy cognitive dissonance, the former are the ones who get hyped unreasonably and take their own failings out on others.

I could imagine Sterling having a different experience after his review of course, but that's how I experienced it. Note, I don't go to Reddit or other cesspits.
 
Whilst I agree with what the video had to say, I think it is a little unfair to direct criticism purely towards fans of the game. Since before the game came out, there has been some quite vocal people who seem to want the game to fail. One of the biggest reasons for which seemed to be the price, as if they are personally offended and appalled that the price is $60 dollars or whatever.

Personally, I really hoped the game turn out great, and in some areas it has, however overall I can't help but feel somewhat disappointed. That said I will probably keep the game, if only to see how the game evolves over time.
 
Not everyone "wanted it to fail," there was just a large population of people who were not satisfied by claims of infinite variety, while simultaneously never being shown a single camera shot longer than 3 seconds, nor being allowed to see anything that wasn't a guided tour.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For me, Sean came off as disingenuous the entire time because he was willing to provide no evidence that his game would or rightly could live up to any of the extraordinary claims, and taking someone at their word when at the end of the day they are trying to sell me something does not interest me.
 
JoeMartin said:
Not everyone "wanted it to fail," there was just a large population of people who were not satisfied by claims of infinite variety, while simultaneously never being shown a single camera shot longer than 3 seconds, nor being allowed to see anything that wasn't a guided tour.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For me, Sean came off as disingenuous the entire time because he was willing to provide no evidence that his game would or rightly could live up to any of the extraordinary claims, and taking someone at their word when at the end of the day they are trying to sell me something does not interest me.
Click to expand...

Yup. It was Molyneux 101 from the outset and anyone that dared question the vision was treated with short shrift.

"What do you actually do?" is a question, not an attack. And when you can't even answer that question it should be pretty clear that the person asking isn't the one with a problem.
 
JoeMartin said:
Not everyone "wanted it to fail," there was just a large population of people who were not satisfied by claims of infinite variety, while simultaneously never being shown a single camera shot longer than 3 seconds, nor being allowed to see anything that wasn't a guided tour.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For me, Sean came off as disingenuous the entire time because he was willing to provide no evidence that his game would or rightly could live up to any of the extraordinary claims, and taking someone at their word when at the end of the day they are trying to sell me something does not interest me.
Click to expand...

There has been numerous demos and footage showing more than 3 seconds, also what game demos aren't guided tours lol.

Don't get me wrong, I think the game warrants criticism in many areas:

The gameplay is shallow.
The "quest" lines are unrewarding.
UI is horribly cumbersome.
The developer hasn't been clear on multiplayer.

But it was obvious from before the game came out, that there were people who were incredibly vitriolic and impassioned about shitting over the game using irrational criticism. Yes, there were also people who were having rational discussions about the game before the launch, and I think that should be encouraged, but too many of them seemed to devolve into gleeful shit throwing.
 
JoeMartin said:
Not everyone "wanted it to fail," there was just a large population of people who were not satisfied by claims of infinite variety, while simultaneously never being shown a single camera shot longer than 3 seconds, nor being allowed to see anything that wasn't a guided tour.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. For me, Sean came off as disingenuous the entire time because he was willing to provide no evidence that his game would or rightly could live up to any of the extraordinary claims, and taking someone at their word when at the end of the day they are trying to sell me something does not interest me.
Click to expand...

IIRC Murray did at some point say that he was afraid people were getting ahead of themselves and that he was trying to be as frank about what you could do in the game as possible. Up till that point most of it was grinding to get to the core, so I don't think he purposefully set out to mislead people. I at least understood what the game was going to be. He could've done more, yeah I think so too, but then again who actively goes out to make people less excited about their upcoming game?

Here's the thing: I mostly agree with you. I really don't care for procedural generation. I also really, really don't like games that waste your time. Oh and Joe Danger was boring. So when the 'what do you do' questions finally got answered with 'mining and grinding', I was extremely on the fence about this game. I have no idea why people remained hyped for it.

In the end though I did buy it and you know what, it's actually a pretty good game. It does mystery and exploration better than I would've thought beforehand. At least the first ten hours. I have no doubt it's as shallow as a puddle and I will notice soon enough, but that's okay. For now I'm having fun. It's at least a really interesting game.

But then I go online and it's all "This game is utter shit", "not worth the price" "Sean lied to us" "fucking disgrace", and it's not just some troll, but it's a sustained narrative, and I'm starting to wonder, who are the ones deluding themselves?
 
spekkeh said:
IIRC Murray did at some point say that he was afraid people were getting ahead of themselves and that he was trying to be as frank about what you could do in the game as possible. Up till that point most of it was grinding to get to the core, so I don't think he purposefully set out to mislead people. I at least understood what the game was going to be. He could've done more, yeah I think so too, but then again who actively goes out to make people less excited about their upcoming game?

Here's the thing: I mostly agree with you. I really don't care for procedural generation. I also really, really don't like games that waste your time. Oh and Joe Danger was boring. So when the 'what do you do' questions finally got answered with 'mining and grinding', I was extremely on the fence about this game. I have no idea why people remained hyped for it.

In the end though I did buy it and you know what, it's actually a pretty good game. It does mystery and exploration better than I would've thought beforehand. At least the first ten hours. I have no doubt it's as shallow as a puddle and I will notice soon enough, but that's okay. For now I'm having fun. It's at least a really interesting game.

But then I go online and it's all "This game is utter shit", "not worth the price" "Sean lied to us" "fucking disgrace", and it's not just some troll, but it's a sustained narrative, and I'm starting to wonder, who are the ones deluding themselves?
Click to expand...

It's certainly split the audience. To such a degree that the one side can't understand what the other is talking about.

It was always going to be the way though, right from when the game was introduced.
 
K.Jack said:
There's obviously nothing wrong or unnatural about getting excited for a new game.

It's when the room to have a dissenting opinion is suffocated, that a line has been crossed.
Click to expand...

Lets not pretend this has been completely one way and the number of detractors bumbling in each NMS thread shitting out "whaddaya evun dooooooooooooooooooooooooo" when they really didn't give a shit other than troll, don't exist, and helped create the environment for the crazy true believers to grow. Now some of them are on some sort of truth mission to "expose the lies" like they're birthers or some shit. Fight dat power!

I still think Giant Bomb got it wrong a couple of months ago doing their worst fan subculture, with sports fans winning. Between the NMS shitshow on both sides and Gamer Gate, video game fans are the worst. I'm not convinced that there wouldn't be fights if there were more personal interactions between them.
 
truly101 said:
video game fans are the worst.
Click to expand...

For example, soccer has had an endless slew of hooligan fan clubs, arena mass beatings including curb stomping police officers, arena mass deaths and the list goes on.

So yes, video game fans bickering online over a fucking game is surely worse.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DK BANANZA: Hype Thread | Legendary Bananas | Kong Returns
Hype 
22
353
DKPOWPOW replied
Wu Chang Hype Check?
2 3
128
1K
Luipadre replied
Rumor: Intergalactic Leak
News Rumor Hype  2 3 4
173
1K
dgrdsv replied
Ambrosia Sky - Official Announcement Trailer
Trailer Indie 
0
107
IbizaPocholo replied
Silent Hill f: Hands-on preview thread
Hype  2 3 4
151
879
awwr999999 replied
Top Bottom