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John Kerry calls terrorism a "nuisance"...

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Widfara

Banned
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.
 
I mean terrorism, vis a vis murder and violence, could never be considered just a "nuisance" by definition. But I think what Kerry means is that, well for instance; pre-911, even after the original WTC attacks, the OKC bombing, the Uni-bomber, the explosions at the Olympics etc, I still did not consider terrorism an imminent threat in my daily life. Post 9-11 I've been bombarded with the word terrorism and potential doom scenarios 100+ times a day, even though the probabilities of me actually suffering the effects of a terrorist attack are probably equal to that of 10 or 12 years ago.

Kerry is just asking for a return to normalcy and away from the fear mongering etc.
 
Widfara said:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.



Holy fuck there Napoleon!! Did someone pump Dick Cheney full of truth serum and strap him to a computer hooked up to one of the "internets"??
 

Razoric

Banned
Ned Flanders said:
I mean terrorism, vis a vis murder and violence, could never be considered just a "nuisance" by definition. But I think what Kerry means is that, well for instance; pre-911, even after the original WTC attacks, the OKC bombing, the Uni-bomber, the explosions at the Olympics etc, I still did not consider terrorism an imminent in my daily life. Post 9-11 I've been bombarded with the word terrorism and potential doom scenarios 100+ times a day, even though the probabilities of me actually suffering the effects of a terrorist attack are probably equal to that of 10 or 12 years ago.

Kerry is just asking for a return to normalcy and away from the fear mongering etc.

Exactly... how can anyone be against this policy? The more people are scared of and thinking about terrorism, the more the terrorist win. They WANT us to think about them all the time....
 

Phoenix

Member
Widfara said:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.

Can someone thumb through the history of Rome will quick...
 

Deg

Banned
Razoric said:
Exactly... how can anyone be against this policy? The more people are scared of and thinking about terrorism, the more the terrorist win. They WANT us to think about them all the time....

Because its the Bush government's weapon. Its not for the good of the US. Its for the good of the Bush administration. Other countries dont deal with Terrorism the way the US has ;)
 

Socreges

Banned
Widfara said:
The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.
I actually agree with you. But that doesn't translate to:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet.
At all. You've skipped several steps. Such as, justified to who? Or, does national interest alone justify unilateral action? In that case, the international community's anarchal nature might as well become the one and only, forgoeing any attempt at diplomacy and cooperation. And we should all prepare for a disastrous war where the status quo concerning allies can't be trusted.

Oh, and:
forthcoming Iranian invasion
Don't count on it.
 

border

Member
Widfara said:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.
Sorry dude, this thread only has room for 1 guy saying idiotic things he doesn't believe to try and bait the rest of the forum. Start your own topic.
 

Widfara

Banned
Obviously there are flaws and limitations to this theory. Hitler's national interest was to kill Jews and the like. Is that a justification? Maybe. Is it right? No.

So, the real and the ideal have to mix somehow. Iraq, I guess, has the real, as I stated. It has the ideal in the bringing of democracy. We can debate the intentions of this "democracy," and if it is legit, but the greater goal ideally of the Iraq war is freedom. Freedom through blood.
 

Che

Banned
Seriously now, USA needs a strong ingenius and resourceful leader and there is only one man who is endued with these unique qualities:



bushidiot.jpg
 
Widfara said:
Obviously there are flaws and limitations to this theory. Hitler's national interest was to kill Jews and the like. Is that a justification? Maybe. Is it right? No.

So, the real and the ideal have to mix somehow. Iraq, I guess, has the real, as I stated. It has the ideal in the bringing of democracy. We can debate the intentions of this "democracy," and if it is legit, but the greater goal ideally of the Iraq war is freedom. Freedom through blood.


The war in Iraq was predicated on these "ideals".

1. Revenge

2. A second terrorist front (ie "attack America in Iraq, not in America")

3. Set up a mideast 'government' with which we will have favorable relations, and subsequent access to vast oil fields and reserves

4. Profit mongering for corporations and military contractors like Haliburton etc

5. Bolster the Israeli state by installing another mid-east "democracy"
 

KingGondo

Banned
Just for everyone's peace of mind...

I think 90% of the "conservative" posts in this thread have been sarcastic (including mine). Come on, everyone knows how liberal this board is: would it really start out like a Cooter convention like this thread did?
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Widfara said:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.
I'm sorry, you forgot to check "Neoconservative", "Pseudofascist", or "Fascist" on your registration form... we have quotas to keep you know. :p

Seriously though, Realist foreign policy hasn't been the driving force in Republican policy for decades now. Perhaps you should actually try looking such terms up. Colin Powell was a realist; Bush is a neocon.
 
Ned Flanders said:
I mean terrorism, vis a vis murder and violence, could never be considered just a "nuisance" by definition. But I think what Kerry means is that, well for instance; pre-911, even after the original WTC attacks, the OKC bombing, the Uni-bomber, the explosions at the Olympics etc, I still did not consider terrorism an imminent threat in my daily life. Post 9-11 I've been bombarded with the word terrorism and potential doom scenarios 100+ times a day, even though the probabilities of me actually suffering the effects of a terrorist attack are probably equal to that of 10 or 12 years ago.

Kerry is just asking for a return to normalcy and away from the fear mongering etc.
Then why not lead by example, instead of engaging in fear-mongering of his own?
 

Belfast

Member
Widfara said:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.

Dude, in order for Iraq to be a "jumper-offer" for other mideast "invasions", IRAQ has to be under control first, something which will likely not happen for quite seem time, maybe years.
 
::Sighs:: I know it was only a matter of time, but OF COURSE the Republicans picked this up and ran with it already. WGN News just had a short clip of the add put out by the RNC I do believe. They did a sound bite for Kerry in which he said the statement was taken out of context and it shows that Bush is just running out of gas.

Was it wrong of me to hope that this wouldn't really take off as a talking point?
 
He spent 7 minutes in elementary kids class room, not accepting the fact that he fucked up. Now its time for Kerry to "smoke'em out".


This is gonna backfire in their face though, during the debates Wednesday Bush is going bring it up and Kerry going carefully explain what he meant.

Bush gonna have another temper tantrum, start sticking his out like a chicken and buc-ah his way to another lost debate.
 
"At a rally in New Mexico, the president jumped on a New York Times Magazine interview in which the Democrat says he hopes terrorists will one day be reduced to ``a nuisance'' and not ``the focus of our lives.''

Bush says the goal should not be reducing terror to some ``acceptable level,'' but defeating it ``by staying on the offensive.''"


Strong words coming from the guy who said the war on terror couldn't be won.
 
shantyman said:
All I will say is John Kerry did not say terrorism was a nuisance. If you think otherwiose, you are stupid.

Even though it would cost Kerry the election it would so own if Kerry went GAF and just busted out. "Duders, Do you even read an entire sentence? What do they only give you a one word limit over there?"


OG_Original Gamer said:
This is gonna backfire in their face though, during the debates Wednesday Bush is going bring it up and Kerry going carefully explain what he meant.

I wonder how Bush is going to get off or domestic issues and run back to terrorism. Figuring the last debate is on domestic issues.
 

Socreges

Banned
OG_Original Gamer said:
This is gonna backfire in their face though, during the debates Wednesday Bush is going bring it up and Kerry going carefully explain what he meant.
Actually, I promise you he won't. Bush and co understood exactly what Kerry meant. But they know that many people won't bother reading the actual context. Notice that he didn't mention the "Global Test" once during the second debate. Because he knew that Kerry could respond and ruin it for Bush.
 

AniHawk

Member
I heard last that Kerry and Bush were dead even at the polls, and now Kerry is behind by 6 points (I'm not sure about the rules as far as posting these type of results, but I'm not a big Bush fan at all, so I think I'm in the clear). I really hope this isn't the thing that costs Kerry the election.

I've got a bad feeling about this.
 

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Spike Spiegel said:
Wait a sec... when was terrorism ever just "a nuisance"?


You cant be serious...do you not remember a time (it really wasnt so long ago) when everyone thought 2 hour check-in periods were a pain or that the standard questions they ask when you check in were pointless...now its just 'the world we live in' Getting back to those days is exactly what we should aim for.


Not sure comparing it to prostitution is the right idea though, that suggests he just wants to keep it out of the publics face......actually that sounds like a great idea.


ffs please vote kerry.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
The thread title is misleading, and its creator is dumb. Or clever, if he hopes people will just read the title and make a judgement on Kerry, as most Republicans generally hope..throw stuff out there, that's completely out of context and misleading, and hope people will make a superficial judgement without delving any deeper. And unfortunately, many Americans seem all too willing to make superficial judgements based on misleading soundbites. FFS, this is too important. It's your country's future. Stop shitting around.

Thread creator, and his ilk - you should be ashamed.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
The immediate effects of terrorism relative to the general scale of things... it is just a nuisance. The buildings and lives lost are scant insignificance to the terror and mindshare that it occupies in people.

The amount of resources that we put into eliminating it is far disproportionate to the damage it causes.

In this sense, the biggest negative effect of terrorism, is as in its name... terror.

Even if John Kerry meant it in such a way as to reduce terrorism to the point where it's only a 'nuisance'...
it's worth noting that the biggest plus of such a feat would be that people's attitudes and mindshare towards terrorism is reduced to something akin to just a nuisance.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Zaptruder said:
The immediate effects of terrorism relative to the general scale of things... it is just a nuisance. The buildings and lives lost are scant insignificance to the terror and mindshare that it occupies in people.

The amount of resources that we put into eliminating it is far disproportionate to the damage it causes.

In this sense, the biggest negative effect of terrorism, is as in its name... terror.

Even if John Kerry meant it in such a way as to reduce terrorism to the point where it's only a 'nuisance'...
it's worth noting that the biggest plus of such a feat would be that people's attitudes and mindshare towards terrorism is reduced to something akin to just a nuisance.

If you try to justify it as if he had actually said that, it'll reinforce the perception that he did actually say that.

He said he wants to reduce terrorism to the point where it is something minor - a nuisance. I think we ALL want that. Eventually, of course, we'd like all terrorism to be non-existant, but that isn't necessarily realistic imo. Which is why I gave props to Bush at the time for saying that terrorism isn't something that can be defeated. That he had to backpedal on that says a whole lot about the sorry state of politics and perception in America at the moment.

Kerry did not say terrorism currently is just a nuisance. He said he wants it to be. End of story!

edit - and I know you weren't saying that he did say that, Zaptruder, and I'm sorry if I semed to be railing against you. I'm not. It's just these matters are so important, there shouldn't be any misperception or ambiguity.

edit - Socreges, change your title. It's the equivalent of saying "Bush says terrorism is 'not relevant'", if he happened to say some day that "Terrorism is something we must fight until it is no longer relevant".
 

Zaptruder

Banned
gofreak said:
If you try to justify it as if he had actually said that, it'll reinforce the perception that he did actually say that.

He said he wants to reduce terrorism to the point where it is something minor - a nuisance. I think we ALL want that. Eventually, of course, we'd like all terrorism to be non-existant, but that isn't necessarily realistic imo. Which is why I gave props to Bush at the time for saying that terrorism isn't something that can be defeated. That he had to backpedal on that says a whole lot about the sorry state of politics and perception in America at the moment.

Kerry did not say terrorism currently is just a nuisance. He said he wants it to be. End of story!

edit - and I know you weren't saying that he did say that, Zaptruder, and I'm sorry if I semed to be railing against you. I'm not. It's just these matters are so important, there shouldn't be any misperception or ambiguity.

edit - Socreges, change your title. It's the equivalent of saying "Bush says terrorism is 'not relevant'", if he happened to say some day that "Terrorism is something we must fight until it is no longer relevant".

I know what he said; but in my personal view, what I said is I believe the real damaging effect of terrorism to be the terror that it causes. And most of that terror is a byproduct of the way our media works. If it could focus and stop feeding us sensationalistic doom and gloom stories... well, we'd be better off for it. I know that opens up a whole other can of worms, but then it's a problem systemic to our culture (general short sightedness)... and fixing that would fix ALOT of problems.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
fart said:
this made me laugh.

No kidding. How obvious does it seem? and how ridiculous does it sound when you state it out.

But you ask people what's the worse thing about terrorism, and I doubt that's the answer you'd get from most people.
 
Socreges said:
Actually, I promise you he won't. Bush and co understood exactly what Kerry meant. But they know that many people won't bother reading the actual context. Notice that he didn't mention the "Global Test" once during the second debate. Because he knew that Kerry could respond and ruin it for Bush.
Bzzzzt.

BUSH: You remember the last debate?

My opponent said that America must pass a global test before we used force to protect ourselves. That's the kind of mindset that says sanctions were working. That's the kind of mindset that said, "Let's keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well."

Saddam Hussein was a threat because he could have given weapons of mass destruction to terrorist enemies. Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective at removing Saddam Hussein.

GIBSON: Senator?

KERRY: The goal of the sanctions was not to remove Saddam Hussein, it was to remove the weapons of mass destruction. And, Mr. President, just yesterday the Duelfer report told you and the whole world they worked. He didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Mr. President. That was the objective.

And if we'd used smart diplomacy, we could have saved $200 billion and an invasion of Iraq. And right now, Osama bin Laden might be in jail or dead. That's the war against terror.

AniHawk said:
I heard last that Kerry and Bush were dead even at the polls, and now Kerry is behind by 6 points
Polls from different organizations can vary widely; you probably saw a newer poll from a different organization that had him behind previously.
 

GG-Duo

Member
Zaptruder said:
No kidding. How obvious does it seem? and how ridiculous does it sound when you state it out.

But you ask people what's the worse thing about terrorism, and I doubt that's the answer you'd get from most people.

Very true. The word "terrorism" has lost its initial meaning.
 
Ghost said:
You cant be serious...
I am serious.
blank.gif


From that statement it seems that John Kerry's goal in combating terrorism would be to reduce its threat level and status within the American mindset to that of a mere nuisance. A nuisance is an annoying little thing that pesters you, and might briefly turn an otherwise pleasant day into an upleasant one; it's something that's bothering you, that you deal with it by either trying your best to ignore it or by brushing it off. It's that fly buzzing around your head while you eat at a restaurant, the one you either disregard or half-heartedly swat at, not in the hopes of actually killing it but to make it go away or bother someone else. And I'm sorry, but I don't think terrorism should be viewed in such a manner anymore; that's a dangerously relaxed way of thinking, and it shows a serious lack of recognition of the potential dangers posed.

Kerry says "we have to get back to the place we were." Where was that, exactly? Pre- Iraq? Pre- Homeland Security? Pre- 9/11? Does he want to "get back" to a time when the average US citizen didn't think about terrorism on a daily basis? That time is now, honestly; how many Americans live their lives in constant fear of being attacked - I sure as hell don't. Does he want to "get back" to when America didn't pay close attention to terrorism at all, because it was something that didn't happen here (except once every 5-10+ years), but "over there" to other countries? That's simply unacceptable; it's the kind of attitude gets us another 9/11. Complacency is a poor substitute for vigilance, no matter who's in charge.

Yes, most Americans will probably never be put in actual danger by an act of terrorism. And yes, it can (and has) been successfully argued that the current administration has overexaggerated the threat of terrorism, and continues to do so on numerous occassion. BUT, there is such a thing as downplaying it, too, and in my opinion saying that terrorism can be regarded as "a nuisance," now or in the future, is not a wise decision.

I don't think our leadership should ever take the position that terrorism could someday become a mere nuisance.
 

Dilbert

Member
Spike Spiegel said:
Yes, most Americans will probably never be put in actual danger by an act of terrorism. And yes, it can (and has) been successfully argued that the current administration has overexaggerated the threat of terrorism, and continues to do so on numerous occassion. BUT, there is such a thing as downplaying it, too, and in my opinion saying that terrorism can be regarded as "a nuisance," now or in the future, is not a wise decision.
Ummmm...that paragraph is self-contradictory.
 
But Spike, you're basing all of this on what connotations "nuisance" brings up for you, not on what he's actually saying. Nuisance != being complacent. Nuisance = not being the only priority.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Spike Spiegel said:
I am serious.
blank.gif


From that statement it seems that John Kerry's goal in combating terrorism would be to reduce its threat level and status within the American mindset to that of a mere nuisance. A nuisance is an annoying little thing that pesters you, and might briefly turn an otherwise pleasant day into an upleasant one; it's something that's bothering you, that you deal with it by either trying your best to ignore it or by brushing it off. It's that fly buzzing around your head while you eat at a restaurant, the one you either disregard or half-heartedly swat at, not in the hopes of actually killing it but to make it go away or bother someone else. And I'm sorry, but I don't think terrorism should be viewed in such a manner anymore; that's a dangerously relaxed way of thinking, and it shows a serious lack of recognition of the potential dangers posed.

Kerry says "we have to get back to the place we were." Where was that, exactly? Pre- Iraq? Pre- Homeland Security? Pre- 9/11? Does he want to "get back" to a time when the average US citizen didn't think about terrorism on a daily basis? That time is now, honestly; how many Americans live their lives in constant fear of being attacked - I sure as hell don't. Does he want to "get back" to when America didn't pay close attention to terrorism at all, because it was something that didn't happen here (except once every 5-10+ years), but "over there" to other countries? That's simply unacceptable; it's the kind of attitude gets us another 9/11. Complacency is a poor substitute for vigilance, no matter who's in charge.

Yes, most Americans will probably never be put in actual danger by an act of terrorism. And yes, it can (and has) been successfully argued that the current administration has overexaggerated the threat of terrorism, and continues to do so on numerous occassion. BUT, there is such a thing as downplaying it, too, and in my opinion saying that terrorism can be regarded as "a nuisance," now or in the future, is not a wise decision.

I don't think our leadership should ever take the position that terrorism could someday become a mere nuisance.

Oh, there's no doubt that intelligence securities should never be complacent about terrorism. It's their job afterall...

But the idea is to reduce the high mindshare that americans have on terrorism.
So that they start becoming interested in more affective issues again (typically domestic issues, especially something like education, which has very much taken a backseat in amongst all the bushisms).

The idea in the end is to balance out the resources that is put into vigilance on terrorism with other social issues, including healthcare, education, etc, etc, etc.
 
AniHawk said:
I heard last that Kerry and Bush were dead even at the polls, and now Kerry is behind by 6 points (I'm not sure about the rules as far as posting these type of results, but I'm not a big Bush fan at all, so I think I'm in the clear). I really hope this isn't the thing that costs Kerry the election.

I've got a bad feeling about this.



To be honest with you those polls are based on "likely" voters which will always skew higher for Republicans. Republicans are more likely to vote, however there are a slew of new first time voters that don't could as "likely" voters. IMO I think that they skew more to Kerry than Bush.
 
seismologist said:
This must be the new Republican talking point. I heard the "nuisance" story no less than 10 times on Fox News this moring.
Yeah, even a search for debate transcript at Google News for use earlier in this thread got me Rush Limbaugh ranting on it.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
But Spike, you're basing all of this on what connotations "nuisance" brings up for you, not on what he's actually saying. Nuisance != being complacent. Nuisance = not being the only priority.
I am basing my words on the literal definition of "nuisance," and on recognized human attitudes and methods of dealing with them throughout history. Terrorism should never be likened to a nuisance by our leaders. Hell, I don't think prostitution and illegal gambling should be likened to nuisances, either.

-jinx- said:
Ummmm...that paragraph is self-contradictory.
How so? Since most Americans won't directly be affected by a terrorist act, it's actually okay for people to regard them as potential nuisances? Since "it won't happen to me," it's okay to be simply annoyed by terrorist acts when they happen to somebody else? ...I thought social awareness, societal concern, and compassion for your fellow man was big with the left.

Zaptruder said:
Oh, there's no doubt that intelligence securities should never be complacent about terrorism. It's their job afterall...

But the idea is to reduce the high mindshare that americans have on terrorism.
So that they start becoming interested in more affective issues again (typically domestic issues, especially something like education, which has very much taken a backseat in amongst all the bushisms).

The idea in the end is to balance out the resources that is put into vigilance on terrorism with other social issues, including healthcare, education, etc, etc, etc.
I'll buy that... in other words, get the American people less interested in issues of national security, and more interested in issues the Democratic party has historically adopted as its standard when seeking power.

(NOTE: That's not a dismissal of domestic issues on my part; I'm just being facetious.
wink.gif
)
 
Spike Spiegel said:
How so? Since most Americans won't directly be affected by a terrorist act, it's actually okay for people to regard them as potential nuisances? Since "it won't happen to me," it's okay to be simply annoyed by terrorist acts when they happen to somebody else? ...I thought social awareness, societal concern, and compassion for your fellow man was big with the left.
Pretty much how I feel, yes. There are things that affect hundreds and thousands of times as many people as terrorism, but terrorism gets all the attention and resources because we have scary visuals for it.
 

Dilbert

Member
Spike Spiegel said:
How so? Since most Americans won't directly be affected by a terrorist act, it's actually okay for people to regard them as potential nuisances? Since "it won't happen to me," it's okay to be simply annoyed by terrorist acts when they happen to somebody else? ...I thought social awareness, societal concern, and compassion for your fellow man was big with the left.
Hint: I'm not on the left.

Yeah, he's going to regret using that word because Bush and friends love to harp on anything which can be neatly summarized in a bumper sticker -- probably because that's about the longest, most complex thought that he can keep in his brain, but that's another topic. The point of Kerry's quote was that we desperately need to do two things. First, we need to keep the ACTUAL risk of terrorism in perspective, rather than perpetuating the culture of fear which the Bush Administration has stoked. Second, recognizing the fact that America can never be 100% safe from terrorism, we need to take effective steps to minimize the frequency and impact of terrorist attacks in the future. A "nuisance" is something which is bothersome, but not a crisis.

So, you ADMIT that the risk to Americans is completely overblown, but somehow are still insisting that terrorism can never be a "nuisance" because it's a huge threat? Those two ideas are not consistent. Either terrorist is a shit-your-pants problem, or it's a fact of life that we all need to accept, protect against to the best of our ability, and move on. Which is it?
 

Dilbert

Member
Spike Spiegel said:
I am basing my words on the literal definition of "nuisance," and on recognized human attitudes and methods of dealing with them throughout history.
I almost forgot to ask -- what's your definition?
 
This flap over word choice is very interesting, considerign how Kerry addressed terrorism in the first debate (with facts, and a plan, and his record regarding the securing of missing nuclear material)-- compared to Bush's which was without detail or substance.

But hey-- Kerry must be soft on terrorism, since he used that word.
 

Santo

Junior Member
Widfara said:
Actually, the Iraq war is justified in every facet. The national interest of every nation is to gain power. Power ensures survival, and power is a very limited resource. Iraq has oil. Oil brings power. Thus America invades, gaining oil, and as a result it fulfills its national interest. Also, an American beacon in the Middle East, like Iraq, is a great "jumper-offer" point for other invasions, like the forthcoming Iranian invasion.

Bush is a realist, and realist foreign policy always wins over idealist.

So that means America is no longer a republic, but an empire. Thus, world war III should be here anyday.

KEWL. Dumbass.
 
-jinx- said:
Hint: I'm not on the left.
It's all right, don't be ashamed.

-jinx- said:
Yeah, he's going to regret using that word because Bush and friends love to harp on anything which can be neatly summarized in a bumper sticker -- probably because that's about the longest, most complex thought that he can keep in his brain, but that's another topic. The point of Kerry's quote was that we desperately need to do two things. First, we need to keep the ACTUAL risk of terrorism in perspective, rather than perpetuating the culture of fear which the Bush Administration has stoked. Second, recognizing the fact that America can never be 100% safe from terrorism, we need to take effective steps to minimize the frequency and impact of terrorist attacks in the future. A "nuisance" is something which is bothersome, but not a crisis.

So, you ADMIT that the risk to Americans is completely overblown, but somehow are still insisting that terrorism can never be a "nuisance" because it's a huge threat? Those two ideas are not consistent. Either terrorist is a shit-your-pants problem, or it's a fact of life that we all need to accept, protect against to the best of our ability, and move on. Which is it?
First, "culture of fear"? Do you honestly believe that's how we're living now? If anything, I think Americans are becoming less fearful now of terrorist incidents despite government warnings, and will likely continue to do so as more time passes since the last major attack. That's fine to a certain extent, as this helps in gaining better perspective, as you said... But, a healthy amount of fear is necessary as well, to maintain proper respect for what threatens us and the dangers that it poses. Crippling fear is unhealthy and unproductive, but a total lack of fear leads to ignorance and reckless behavior.

Yes sir, perspective is important - that's why John Kerry's view, that terrorism can someday be held in the same regard and erroneously cavalier "oh well" attitude as prositution or illegal gambling, is so disturbing.

Second, America does need to take steps in reducing "the frequency and impact of terrorist attacks in the future." In fact, it has been since 9/11. And nuisances by their very definition are bothersome, annoying things... BUT a terrorist act cannot be a nuisance, because it is a violent disaster, and terrorism as a whole is a potentially major crisis. A single act of terrorism can murder thousands, cost billions of dollars, generate fear and sorrow in an entire nation, create sympathy within a world, influence the outcome of national elections, and change the policies and laws of the most powerful nations on Earth. Given how powerful a single act of terrorism can be, having seen what one act of terrorism can do, don't you think it's doing a great disservice to terrorism to refer to it, now and ever, as a simple "nuisance"?

The risks posed to individual Americans by terrorism, with regards to the direct dangers of loss of life, health, and property, are probably minimal, especially in localized areas unlikely to be seen as suitable targets for terrorists. So yes, telling John Smith in Anytown, USA that he'll be attacked at any moment, that he must stock up on duct tape, plastic wrap, and survival goods, that he must check the color-coded threat level chart for updates frequently, is a bit of an exaggeration. But the potential dangers posed to America as a whole, to its infrastructure and institutions governmental, military, and economic, are very real, and people involved in these areas as well as those living and working in high-profile targets of opportunity should not live in ignorance of potential threats, and be aware of their situation. The American people as a whole need to be aware of the fact that a terrorist act affects us all, as a nation - even if most of us only feel the effects indirectly.

We do need to take steps to protect "against [terrorism] to the best of our ability." But acceptance? NO. We can tolerate its existence, only for as long as necessary, but if we are going to even attempt to put an end to it as a people, we cannot accept it. Acceptance of a problem only admits defeat. And we can "move on," but not forget.

EDIT: Oh, and by all means, drag that tired old "Bush is teh IGNORE-RAM-MOOSE" dig out in this thread as well. That dead horse has been looking and smelling pretty damn ripe for a while now, but I'm sure it's good for at least one more beating.
 
Kerry will do more to combat terrorism the GWB, in my opinion. Attacking Iraq was done in the name of the war on terror-- but what concrete positive results did it have vs terror? Even if it is a positive step for the Middle East (which I don't believe-- but I could be wrong) how does it address non-State agressors like Al Qaida? Doesn't it seem that invading Iraq would destabilize a large area, a foster support for terrorist action? It does to me.
 
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