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JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable OT What a Beautiful Duwang

M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Personally I love Part 3. For me, a long time manga reader, its my 3rd or 4th favorite part, beating out or losing to Part 2 depending on what Day it is. Recently I've come to appreciate Part 6 a lot more though so I think I'd put 7, 6 and 4 above 'em.

Part 3 to me is a bunch of strong and awesome individual moments. BABY STAND. Rero rero rero rero rero. Iggy's death and sacrifice. HAIL 2 U. The reveal of The World's power via trolling Polnareff and killing Kakyoin. ROADO ROLLER DA. I won't and can't really deny any problems people have with it, but its a product of its time for me. Part 4 is Part 3 perfected, with the elements of what people liked of Part 2 in it. Part 4 is where Stands come into their own, fights get better, characters have some semblance of arcs etc etc.
 
M

Matsukaze

Member
I've said it before, I'll say it again - as with the individual JoJos, I think each Part is very strong (and charming, and memorable) in its own way and I love them all. It's when they are compared beside one another that their flaws tend to stand out more boldly and I become more critical.

From my corner - Phantom Blood is perhaps the only arc that gets solidly crushed by Part 3; I used to think Stardust Crusaders wiped the floor with Part 5 but nowadays it's a helluva lot closer. Part 3, in my book, gets beaten clean by Parts 4, 6, and 7. Part 2 more often than not trumps Part 3, but that's not a constant. Part 8, though incomplete, is shaping up to be better than Part 3, but we've a ways to go before I can safely make that call.

And because I cannot give any details about what I think Parts 5-8 do well or poorly, I will leave it at that (or until it pops up in the manga thread). :)
 
R

Ridley327

Member
SolarKnight said:
D'Arby the gamer was the longest fight in the manga besides DIO, so, uh, kinda overly long there too tbh
Click to expand...

Really? Wow, I guess Araki was on a video game kick at the time.

I don't want people to think that I hated part 3 at all (it's way too hilarious for that), but you could tell that there were both issues with the source material as well as the adaptation being too faithful to the page.
 
B

Betty

Banned
Ridley327 said:
It probably plays better on the page, but the pacing for a few of the fights got really wonky. Did Telence D'Arby REALLY need to be 2.5 episodes long, especially with how much lamer that encounter plays out compared to his older brother?
Click to expand...

I enjoyed it just because I kept trying to work out his stand, but I suppose it could've been shortened.

Nottle said:
Also Dio vs Jotaro is the coolest tug of war battle of wits ever
Click to expand...

Yup, but the best thing is that Dio could've won the fight in a billion different ways had he not been an overconfident showoff.

If he'd thrown the knife at Jotaro at the start instead of Joseph for example he could have won.
 
R

Reverend Funk

Comfy Penetration
Nottle said:
Also Dio vs Jotaro is the coolest tug of war battle of wits ever.
He was hiding in the sewer already.
He stopped his fucking heart just to trick Dio.
He didn't stop time fast enough and now Jotaro blew a hole in his head!
The only way that fight could have been better is if Polraneff and Joseph did a little bit more and if they again played Soni Chi no sadame like they did for the Kars fight. Just to book end the vampire trilogy.
Click to expand...

The only thing that really disappointed me about the fight was that jotaro was also able to stop time, it would have been the coolest shit if he was able to come up with more crazy creative stuff like the magnets to beat dio without being able to stop time.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Part 3 drags until the Justice battle, then it's great to the end.

I like Part 4 because it's where Araki gets good at writing characters and becomes even more imaginative, and he keeps on getting better and better.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
The sole reason I got into the JoJos was because of ZA WARUDO memes and youtube videos of the OVA so I really have Part 3 to thank for everything. No other part is as heavily imprinted on weeb culture as Stardust Crusaders.
 
J

JadedWriter

Member
Matsukaze said:
Barring the three better JoJo villains, yes. :p

Also, Dio's upbringing - namely his shithead father - is what turned him cruel and heartless. Then again, the concepts of fate and destiny are real influences/presences in JJBA, so one could argue Dio entered the world born to WRYYYYYYYYYYY.
Click to expand...
I thought Dio was cruel and heartless because he was a fucking lawyer?
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Haly said:
The sole reason I got into the JoJos was because of ZA WARUDO memes and youtube videos of the OVA so I really have Part 3 to thank for everything. No other part is as heavily imprinted on weeb culture as Stardust Crusaders.
Click to expand...

I'm certain that pre david pro thats how 99% of the western fanbase came to be, either watching the OVA or playing the Capcom game and seeing mugen memes
 
G

Grexeno

Member
It is kind of insane how pre-David Pro, such a gigantically popular series like JoJo had basically no animated adaptation to speak of.
 
S

Sibersk Esto

Banned
The thing with DIO is that there is some stuff under the surface to analyze, and he does have motivations and a backstory that have a little more depth and nuance than just muhaha I'm evil.

But Araki doesn't want you to feel sorry for his villains, because the way Jojo is written is that strong characters have strong convictions that move them forward, so even if they do horrible things, they naturally don't feel guilt about it.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
DIO is like the villain in Danganronpa or the Joker. He may not have been born pure evil (or maybe he was) but he is leaning as far into Chaotic Evil as you possibly can, even if he does like philosophy. He also carries an aura of charisma around him which gathers him extremely devout, almost religious followers. Maybe he's more dangerous dead now that they've lost their demigod.
 
M

Mr. Smiley

Member
I got into Jojo because of Phantom Blood's opening. ._.

I just thought it was an amazing thing and that 1 min, 30 sec intro made me realize this series is worth the huge ass manga backlog.

Edit: I remember that Mugen video of Ronald McDonald bringing down a giant hamburger and making it explode via road rolla da, ending with a Wryyyyy

Old memes are special
 
D

Dennis

Banned
Ranking the anime (have not read any of the manga):

Part 1 > Part 4 (so far) > Part 3 (with DIO) > Part 2 > Part 3 (without DIO)
 
T

The Illiterati

Member
Part 4 is the best as far as I'm concerned. People have listed some amazing moments from 3, and I can acknowledge them, but it just felt like a slog to me. I think it's mainly because Jotaro is terrible. As a main character. He's fine as a side one in 4, but Josuke blows all Jojo protags away for me so far.
 
R

Raxus

Member
C

cntr

Banned
sure sure, it's well animated

But just look at that DIO. Look at that color pallet. Where's the posing? That's not the Bizarre Adventure I want.

The OVA's an adaptation of Stardust Crusaders. The David Pro anime is Stardust Crusaders. I'll prefer the latter forever.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Completely agreed. OVA is extremely well animated but with zero flair or style. Character designs aren't good. Neither is the voice acting. In the details, DP wins. Also has the better Za Warudo.
 
M

Matsukaze

Member
Yeah, the OVA never really did it for me. As far as I'm concerned, DavidPro's Part 3 blows the OVA out of the water. In particular, DavidPro did a much better job using color to make particular moments or scenes really pop.

Also, Koyasu is perfect as Dio. His ZA WARUDO and MUDAMUDAMUDA are fantastic.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
We're talking about style, aren't we? Not adherence to Araki's templates. David Pro did a very good job with the adaptation but very often you had scenes that went just a smidge too long, framing that was a bit off, scenes that lacked impact, time frames that didn't really make sense, and this is mostly due to David Pro's dogmatic obeisance to Araki's panels. They neglected or forgot the fact that space and time in the world of manga stretches and compresses according to the will of the reader. In a continuous medium like anime, they don't have the luxury of the viewer's imagination, but instead of departing from the established source material, they sacrificed the adaptation's integrity instead. This is pretty much a continuous issue in the adaptation, even in Part 4 which is a massive upgrade over Part 3. The Angelo finale is the most obvious example of this effect. Drawing out scenes to fit the nonnegotiable time frame of broadcast anime inevitably undermines the scenes themselves. The OVA never had this problem because they played it fast and loose with adapting the source material, ultimately (and ironically) creating tighter, more effective scenes.
 
S

Sibersk Esto

Banned
Haly said:
We're talking about style, aren't we? Not adherence to Araki's templates. David Pro did a very good job with the adaptation but very often you had scenes that went just a smidge too long, framing that was a bit off, scenes that lacked impact, time frames that didn't really make sense, and this is mostly due to David Pro's dogmatic obeisance to Araki's panels. They neglected or forgot the fact that space and time in the world of manga stretches and compresses according to the will of the reader. In a continuous medium like anime, they don't have the luxury of the viewer's imagination, but instead of departing from the established source material, they sacrificed the scenes' integrity instead. This is pretty much a continuous issue in the adaptation, even in Part 4 which is a massive upgrade over Part 3. The Angelo finale is the most obvious example of this effect.
Click to expand...

Won't disagree, although it isn't uncommon in such an adaptation heavy industry.

David Pro is kind of lucky the Jojo manga is so cinematic in its storytelling (That isn't to say they haven't added their own flair to the franchise).
 
C

cntr

Banned
You're misunderstanding what we mean with "style".

The OVA has skill, nobody disputes that. But where the fuck is the Jojo? It's one thing to try and make your own version, it's another to strip so much of what makes Jojo Jojo from the series. It's not a lack of integrity, it's removing what makes the series Jojo's Bizarre Adventure.

David Pro can be silly with the strict adherence to the panels, but I can accept that when the OVAs remove so much fun from the bizarre adventure. It might have the same plot, but it's not Stardust Crusaders.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
So, actually, by style you mean "why doesn't it look like Araki's manga"?

Because from where I'm looking at, it's only the OVA that has its own style whereas David Pro is doing a rote translation of Araki's panels. Not that that doesn't take a lot of effort, but what David Pro can call their own, what bits of themselves they added, when it comes to the entire JoJo universe, is mostly limited to the OPs and EDs, and certain scenes enhanced with digital effects. A distinctive or unique approach to something is what I consider "style", hence my disagreement, and it's not how I can describe David Pro's adaptation. How can it be distinct when its popularity over the OVA is predicated specifically on its loyalty to Araki's formula?
 
C

cntr

Banned
Yeah, and the OVA's style is horrible.

Yes, I'm complaining it doesn't look like Araki's art. I'm complaining that nobody has any charm. I'm complaining about the washed out dull color pallet. Is that somehow not essential to Jojo?

You're talking about scene pacing and art quality as if that was the only thing that mattered. It's not. The OVA might have that, but it has nothing else. It might be a good animation, but it's horrible Jojo.
 
S

Sibersk Esto

Banned
I think David pro put a ton of style into early part 4, with the slick transitions, the match cuts, hell most of the Echoes part 1 fight. They've cooled off on it these last couple of episodes however.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Also, what kind of definition of "style" is that? That makes no sense.

David Pro using Araki's style might not be original, but how does that not make it a style? That's nonsensical when you're talking about adaptations!
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Your use of an ambiguous word like "style" is what's really the source of the conflict here. This would've conveyed your point much more clearly and accurately:
It might've had the budget, but it wasn't Araki's JoJo.
Click to expand...
EDIT: Not really interested in a semantics debate, but "it has no style" is simply wrong. The OVA has style. Maybe you don't like it, that's okay, but it definitely has style. There's no "best style", even in the world of adaptations. I might drastically prefer the LOGH OVAs over the new LOGH manga, but both of them have style, and my preference is driven by which style appeals more to me, not which one has "more style" than the other.
 
C

chrisPjelly

Member
Sibersk Esto said:
I think David pro put a ton of style into early part 4, with the slick transitions, the match cuts, hell most of the Echoes part 1 fight. They've cooled off on it these last couple of episodes however.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm wondering what happened to that. Did they put that Edgar Wright storyboard artist on later arcs?
 
C

cntr

Banned
Sibersk Esto said:
I think David pro put a ton of style into early part 4, with the slick transitions, the match cuts, hell most of the Echoes part 1 fight. They've cooled off on it these last couple of episodes however.
Click to expand...
There's still quite a bit of that, it's just lower-key.

Probably saving budget for the later episodes.
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
Sibersk Esto said:
I think David pro put a ton of style into early part 4, with the slick transitions, the match cuts, hell most of the Echoes part 1 fight. They've cooled off on it these last couple of episodes however.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't really agree with that. Episode 12 was at about the same quality as the earlier Toshiyuki Kato boarded episodes, for instance.
 
E

Ezalc

Member
Betty said:
Really surprised how some feel part 3 isn't fuck balls amazing.

Maybe it's just longtime manga readers opinion but as far as the anime goes Stardust Crusaders was my favourite shonen show alongide Hunter x Hunter.
Click to expand...

As a person who read all the parts, part 3 is in the bottom 3 for me along with parts 1 and 5. Jotaro is an awful protagonist. Jojo being jojo though it already stands head and shoulders above a lot if not most shounen, but things like Hunter x Hunter blow it out of the goddamn water so much it's not even fair to compare, to part 3 I mean.

Parts 2, 4, and 7 are my favorites just to clear up my personal top and bottom 3 parts.
 
K

Killer Queen

Banned
All this OP talk makes me sad that the current OP is kinda trash compared to the others. I guess that it fits the tone but God damn bloody stream and stand proud are hype. This, is not.
 
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