California Games had me in tears, especially when the roller girl fell down on the pavement and the other hang-gliding one crashed because of the wind.
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Jon Tron Show - Reviews, Lists, Madness
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
California Games had me in tears, especially when the roller girl fell down on the pavement and the other hang-gliding one crashed because of the wind.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
I'm gonna need to rewatch it! I just recall it not being near the quality of Goosebumps.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I hate to bump this thread for this but since I can't create new ones and no one is mentioning it, WTF is going on between Jon and Tim Schafer on Twitter? Tim set his fanbase on Jon during a heated argument about the objectification of women in video games in which Jon said he supports women. Something about the cover for the new Conan game or something. Cant figure out where the whole thing began. Even Gary Whitta got in on the action. Oh, and Anthony Burch now...
If a mod needs to edit this post out, feel free. I don't know if there;s a discussion going on anywhere about this right now. It just seems silly. Jon should probably not have said anything, even if he hasn't said anything wrong.
Edit: Now everyone else on Twitter is mentioning it.
Anyway. To stay relevant to this thread, Jon is on the CoOptional Podcast right now: http://www.twitch.tv/totalbiscuit
If a mod needs to edit this post out, feel free. I don't know if there;s a discussion going on anywhere about this right now. It just seems silly. Jon should probably not have said anything, even if he hasn't said anything wrong.
Edit: Now everyone else on Twitter is mentioning it.
Anyway. To stay relevant to this thread, Jon is on the CoOptional Podcast right now: http://www.twitch.tv/totalbiscuit
From what I can gather, Tim tweeted the latest Feminist Frequency video saying that every game developer should watch it. Jon then tweeted his poorly-thought-out opinion on the matter which Tim retweeted saying that it was sad coming from a guy with a million YouTube subscribers. Jon also tweeted a picture of Conan as proof that men are sexualized in media as well (it was nothing about a new Conan game I think). Now people are mad at Jon for being misogynist and mad at Tim for sending a mob after JonTron (whether or not you believe any of those things are true).
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
It looked like a game. It definitely wasn't movie poster artwork. So it's either a game or a CGI movie of some sort. It was a cover with Conan looking all barbarian-like with a dozen scantily clad women in the background with their wrists tied on their knees like they're prisoners.
Not sure what went on. But Tim Schaffer and Jon got into a heated argument about the portrayal of women in video games vs. male fantasy or something and both Tim and Jon threw their follower bases at each other.
Then all the other big people in the game journalism industry started tweeting about it.
Of course they haven't even mentioned it on the podcast at all despite it having happened literally 10 minutes before it.
Edit:
I don't want to have to hate either of them. But if it comes down to it, I'd pick Jon. Because I've enjoyed more of his content than Tim's. They're both stupid for arguing in public. It's as bad as getting into a heated debate about religion on FaceBook.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Not kidding. I have Jon set to mobile notifications so I started getting a bunch of tweets. Then opened Twitter on my computer and saw someone else talking about how their argument was the highlight of their day. If it weren't for the post above, I'd still have no idea how this came about. Unless they decide to discuss it at the end of this podcast.
Please Jon. Just get out of there. I once got into a heated argument about religion on FaceBook during which I started jokingly referring to God as a woman and got accused of being a fanboy of some book series I've never heard of, when I was really just referencing Dogma. Big mistake. But you learn from mistakes. Hopefully Jon never does that again.
Though his fancies is too strong to really be destroyed by stuff like this anyway. Remember when Jon left Grumps and people claimed it would kill both their channels? lol
Zeyphersan
Banned
Dammit Jon, think before you act
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Jon's been incredibly stubborn on Twitter lately. He'd start up controversy and end it with essentially "deal with it."
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I'm sure he'll be fine next time a video comes out. But come on.
Basically, Tim Schafer posted the latest episode of Tropes vs Women which prompted a bunch of people to respond with "NOT YOU TOO TIM!" or "I USED TO RESPECT YOU!" type shit. Jon also responded with what amounted to "BUT WHAT ABOUT ME? WHAT ABOUT MY/OUR PROBLEMS" (and let's be honest, these "problems" are inconsequential compared to what it is in response to and are only classified as "problems" because a certain group of people are upset that the focus is no longer on them and only them. If the only way your "problem" can be recognized as such is by you responding with "WHAT ABOUT ME?" when a greater problem is mentioned, it probably isn't that bad.) ANYWAYS, Tim retweeted Jon's response and commented that it made him sad that the retweeted comment was coming from someone with such a large following. Some of Tim's fans decided to respond directly to Jon; some stating their disapproval in a respectful manner, some with vitriol. In typical internet fashion, the vitriolic comments became the face of those opposing Jon's comments. Now people are telling Tim Schafer of all people to kill himself.
ProcHoliday
Banned
Jontron has his own site too which he was posting his videos to first (before Youtube at least) if I remember correctly. Maybe it should be linked to in the OP?
Link: http://normalboots.com/
Link: http://normalboots.com/
I think this has to be the least "drama" Jon has caused. He simply posted in disagreement and didnt actually undermine anyone this time in the process. Its just your typical "men are sexualized / point out the good women too" response. What's not cool is Tim giving him shit for it.
For the first time in Jon's crazy Twitter escapades I'm inclined not to find him at fault here.
For the first time in Jon's crazy Twitter escapades I'm inclined not to find him at fault here.
ProcHoliday
Banned
If any of you are interested in a bit of discussion about this he's on this week's Cooptional Podcast (TB's podcast) and they actually do have a fairly long segment talking about sexism, feminism, and the gaming industry.
He deserved to get shit for it because it's one of the dumbest fucking things to say on that topic.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I mentioned it above. But I missed the last hour or so because the iOS Twitch app shit the bed and marked TotalBiscuit as not streaming. (And you can't FORCE it to show the video when it thinks they're not.)
Will there be a VOD of it and when can I find it?
It's dumb. Far from the dumbest though, and also doesn't mean it's offensive.
And I'm sure the best course of action by a highly respected developer when the tweet was purely personal is to retweet it, put him on the spot and basically go "look at him and laugh" when perhaps it was better to, I dunno, have a rational reply explaining why it's a narrow-sighted view even though what it ultimately entails from his side was an implication that he doesn't like extremists on both sides?
I disagree that he deserved it. Quite frankly I'd expect better from Schafer. You might think differently of course.
Stratostar
Member
Ugh. Sad to see we have an entire thread dedicated to this overweight poster child of the stereotypical gamer.
ProcHoliday
Banned
It will be up on iTunes after editing some time this week. OR if you want to watch the video you will be able to find it here where it gets uploaded: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFdg8AFOBih23VAxiI9NdPOZEs1lp48BN
ProcHoliday
Banned
Nice criticism by going directly at the fact that he's slightly overweight, nice way to start a constructive dialog.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Jon's argument is kind of flimsy, but I don't think especially in comparison to some of the other stupid shit he's been saying lately on Twitter he was being dickish with how he communicated it. Similarly Tim just expressed his disappointment somebody with as large a following as Jon was over simplifying the matter.
Not really seeing how either acted wrong outside of followers of both going after each other's throats because this is always going to happen with Twitter, though I can really only see Jon and Tim's original tweets to each other so I can't really tell if there was more to this and it's been deleted.
Not really seeing how either acted wrong outside of followers of both going after each other's throats because this is always going to happen with Twitter, though I can really only see Jon and Tim's original tweets to each other so I can't really tell if there was more to this and it's been deleted.
Lyot
Member
Thin privilege clearly
Aaron Strife
Banned
Damn I love Jon but I don't think he realizes how much he benefits from white male privilege.
This seems to be a recurring thing in all of his "controversies."
This seems to be a recurring thing in all of his "controversies."
Byronic Hero
Member
That seemed like an unnecessary comment.
Both parties are at fault here. Jon for not keeping his Twitter-mouth shut and Tim for calling him out on it. If either of them had kept quiet, things probably wouldn't have escalated.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Avatar quote? Thanks for your input.
Thanks. How long does it usually take? I notice last weeks was only uploaded yesterday. Do they wait a week? How long for the iTunes versions?
Crash Station
Member
Isn't he part middle eastern?
Well he had a nice talk on twitch it seems.
People get frustrated over twitter, but that shouldn't dictate who they are as a person. Even if what Jon said was pretty blind, it comes from a place of maybe wanting to learn more.
Yeah, but he was probably pretty cleared from racism since he looks acceptably light skinned with an American accent.
o_____o Not to say he was privileged, since privilege comes from a whole lot of who, what, where and when...not just sex, race and class.
People get frustrated over twitter, but that shouldn't dictate who they are as a person. Even if what Jon said was pretty blind, it comes from a place of maybe wanting to learn more.
Yeah, but he was probably pretty cleared from racism since he looks acceptably light skinned with an American accent.
o_____o Not to say he was privileged, since privilege comes from a whole lot of who, what, where and when...not just sex, race and class.
ZeroGravity
Member
Quite the contrary. It's refreshing to see someone unafraid to speak out and not succumb to the bullying of social justice mobs.
He's Persian.
Hear Hear, I respect him for outlining his views, poorly worded and all. Unfortunately portions of the internet have a difficult time respecting views that differ from their's.
Demon Lizardman
Banned
Or Iranian
Higgins113
Banned
It's nice to see someone stand up against sjw stuff.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Did he piss in your cheerios? What's the deal?
He's Persian, and I think that both of his parents are.
Yes it was dumb, but what may be inoffensive to you could be offensive to others.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the tweet was purely personal." JonTron has 210,000 followers. And this tweet was directly addressed to Tim Schafer (185,000 followers). I personally don't see how Schafer's retweet and response was unfair or bullying.
You are correct, Shafer's response was dismissive. But as someone who follows these kinds of debates, I can quickly recognize why. Jon's argument is made many times by many different people, unsuccessfully. Yes, men can be unfairly depicted in games. But that is not what is being discussed. The video is explicitly discussing women.
Gonna side with Jon Tron on this one. I don't really consider a video argument that closes itself off from any sort of debates or discussions to be something that needs to be or should be watched, and I don't really like how Tim Schafer passive aggressively responded to Jon instead of just replying to him normally, but that goes along with arguments that close themselves off from discussion, I guess.
The tweet wasn't pre-punctuated in the reply. The only way anyone would see Jon's response is if someone followed both accounts, or if you set your Twitter to show every single reply to everyone. Even though those are barely any sort of block, chances are, Jon just wanted to start an actual conversation there. It was uninformed as hell of course but that's about the worst thing you can say about the subject.
It's a semantics argument obviously, but by retweeting it, Tim clearly wanted everyone to see it before the low-blow.
Don't get me wrong, I agree entirely with you. Jon's response is very narrow-minded. Thing is, you'd preferably want to inform him as to why that is.
I used to have the same viewpoint as Jon once in my life before I was educated as to why it's a flawed premise, and in a way I still dislike a lot of extremities in stereotyping on both sides. I'm not really so much defending Jon as I'm mostly disappointed with Schafer, since the guy has always been a very informative designer and lovable developer. I just don't really think it's cool of that kind of guy to do that, it sets a bad precedent.
Here lies someone who walks out of movie theaters when they tell you not to talk or use your cellphone during the performance.
bullying? thats what you call it?
While that might be the case, pre-emptively dismissing every potential commenter's thoughts and arguments is no better than people who dismiss the video in question for dumb reasons.
Here's someone who just bitches and makes unfunny jokes when he hears something he doesn't like.
No, it's better. It's a bullshit reason. There are dozens of avenues to discuss the topic, and pretending like there aren't, is again, willfully ignorant. Nobody that seriously wants to discuss any topic is going to do it in the youtube comment system. The conversation for most topics already moved away from there anyway years ago because it's a nasty environment that is flat out not set up for actual discussion.
What's even more amusing is Jon Tron saying that a few hours before he goes on a podcast where the host (totalbiscuit) doesn't allow comments either on his videos. And for good reasons too!
Gotcha. I didn't know about how people use punctuation on Twitter, it does add a layer to the argument. Personally, I'd maintain that Twitter is a public forum so the idea of 'outing' a tweet is silly. But I can at least see why others would disagree. Thanks.
I see Tim's activity today as a mission in exposure (to the issue). If I were in his position, I might do more responding and less quoting, but I respect his effort too much for me to be disappointed. Maybe that's wrong of me, I don't know. I'm still thinking about it.