CaptainBroseph
Member
I can see why you'd want to think that.
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Jon Tron Show - Reviews, Lists, Madness
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
I can see why you'd want to think that.
so people not only deserve to be shamed and harrassed by the whole internet for cheating on their significant other, but so urgent is the need to destroy them for their private behavior that we should shame them just based on the mere suggestion that they cheated in their private life (and, you know, the accusations of a recent ex are known for being completely impartial).
stop and listen to yourself.
As jim sterling said this could be an interesting conversation saved for later much later about dev/journo closeness. As for quin herself I found out what this even was rather late, and have an inability to have an opinion on it because I don't know anything. All I can give is the futurama nuetralman esque speach not saying anyone is lying
Quinnspiracy is a bit much though,
the implications of the situation are rather gross. And for a discussion outside of quin reserved for much much later
stump sock
Member
I'd argue that the Quinn comic was actually literally harassment.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Some people here are suggesting trying to fuck over Jons sponsorships because he doesn't agree with them and was mean, theoretically ruining his life when he's basically a guy making ends meet via YouTube. I'm not saying he's right but this comment kind of works both ways in the "stop and listen to yourself"
7DollarHagane
Banned
Yes, I do blame him.
I'm at a loss here. You think a woman having her private life taken apart and subsequently being harrassed based on an angry ex boyfriend's blogpost is the same as Jontron facing backlash for deliberately saying and doing dumbass, hurtful things in public?
How is that your logical connection?
stump sock
Member
Part of being a public personality, especially one whose living wages are tied to it, is not being a knob. Just look at the shitstorms that ensue when someone like Jonah Hill or Mel Gibson make hateful comments. If you are at risk of losing your sponsors if someone lets them know about things you've said or done, that's something to consider before doing them.
CaptainBroseph
Member
The comic was also making fun of the whole retard debacle he had before. I also don't know why people are still talking about Zoe, this has gone way past her. Patricia Hernandez put a disclaimer on two articles about her relationship to the game dev, which is a slap on the hand to me, but it shows progress.
Edit: Didnt mean to quote other person, how do I computer
Admiral Woofington
Member
No I'm saying that specifically attempting to ruin a guy's source of income when the sponsoring company is not affected by his opinion (as of now) because you disagree with him is an extreme. Harass him in twitter all you want I don't care.
And easy with the implications of me being stupid, I was only giving an opinion man no need for that.
True. But what if the company has no issue with it but a bunch of people continue to complain that they won't purchase audio books because they give Jon some money for him to mention them in every video? What if they're forced to drop him because of all the specific backlash and threats of loss of clientele. If they drop him based on their own decision all to them.
stump sock
Member
well, I mean... the point of advertisement is to sell product. If people aren't buying product because they don't support the person advertising it, I don't really see why the company would want to continue that kind of partnership.
I mean, that's shitty on a lot of levels, but it's also business. Business isn't charity.
I don't think we need assholes with megaphones saying stupid shit and slutshaming people. The world would get by just fine without them. I have no responsibility to make sure dumbasses get paid. If you depend on sponsors, then maybe consider not saying stupid shit in the first place?
Admiral Woofington
Member
I can tell we're not going to look eye to eye on this you seem to be going to the completely opposite extreme of Jon's. My input in this particular discussion is gone.
Maybe if there weren't all the Facebook chat screenshots and a video of him searching through his Facebook chat history, I dunno. Ya, if it was probably just the text, I wouldn't pay it much mind.
Then again, all it does is prove that an indie game developer cheated on her boyfriend, which is of no real concern to anyone except her, her ex-boyfriend, and the alleged cheaters.
Riedinizzo
Banned
I don't particularity care for what Zoe Quinn's accused of doing (cheating is disgusting and hurtful, period), but I don't know her, she's not my friend and I'm not about to date her...so I don't care. So many people are taking it *so* personally. Its bizarre. It's a private matter between two adults, and no one deserves to be publicly shamed for their behavior in a relationship. Its mind boggling how you can defend the ex. I can empathize with how he was feeling to an extent sure, but defend him and his actions? Noope.
That being said, jon tron makes me lol irl and i think hes a pretty cool guy.
That being said, jon tron makes me lol irl and i think hes a pretty cool guy.
Exactly, I don't think anyone should give a fuck about her personal life. This is just tabloid nonsense.
Griddlelol
Banned
I think it's odd that people in this thread believe they owe this guy an income.
HiredN00bs
Member
JonTron isn't out of the norm, and that's why it's important to highlight. Most guys are going to dismiss feminist ideas out of hand because of the stigma that has been perpetuated in the mainstream. Terms like Rush Limbaugh's "feminazi", or exaggerated feminist characters on television shows reinforce this behavior and effectively marginalize completely valid, rational grievances feminists have with society.
Anita's videos aren't about censoring video games. They're about the fucked up ways we think about, perceive, and interpret the world around us. This affects both what video game players enjoy and what video game developers create.
The call for debate from Anita's detractors is disingenuous. What we need is for people to listen, to open their minds, and consider that their entire understanding on this might be inherently corrupted.
As a former right-wing religious zealot, I am thankful that I did not have the sphere of influence that JonTron enjoys when I spouted my ignorant diatribes. I am ashamed enough as it is.
Anita's videos aren't about censoring video games. They're about the fucked up ways we think about, perceive, and interpret the world around us. This affects both what video game players enjoy and what video game developers create.
The call for debate from Anita's detractors is disingenuous. What we need is for people to listen, to open their minds, and consider that their entire understanding on this might be inherently corrupted.
As a former right-wing religious zealot, I am thankful that I did not have the sphere of influence that JonTron enjoys when I spouted my ignorant diatribes. I am ashamed enough as it is.
I'm complicit in having him keep doing his JonTron videos, because that's what I consume.
I'm not subscribed to his Twitter, i'm subscribed to his YouTube, JonTron Show channel.
Beyond that, if people want to engage him on those issues on Twitter, they're free to do it.
With my views, i'm not supporting Jon posting trash on Twitter either.
I'm supporting the JonTronShow type of videos that i enjoy, which is what i'm specifically giving my views to, which don't contain anything close to what this issue is made of.
Man, I hope you never listened to a Michael Jackson song ever in your life time.
I've never purchased a Michael Jackson CD, album, song, merch of any kind, or have ever even been a fan of his. In fact, I don't even really see what the big deal is when it comes to his music. Never liked it. So -- Bad example.
I've never purchased a Michael Jackson CD, album, song, merch of any kind, or have ever even been a fan of his. In fact, I don't even really see what the big deal is when it comes to his music. Never liked it. So -- Bad example.
That's a good chunk of good cinema you're gonna miss on, frankly.
Tough just to be clear, i respect the personal decision to do so, just don't think enjoying one's creation also implies supporting their life choices or opinions.
Battousaii
Banned
Don't get why this is even a thing. she cheated so what its more about her bullshitting her way into success using the bullshit gaming journalism and jontron was sensible said she was wrong in her ways and what she did to achieve her status and that's it what am i missing here that is so bad?
The bigger issue is the allegation that she tried to convince her bf that he had a mental illness, so that she could cover up the affairs, because she didn't want it to ruin her credibility as an activist. I would say because she's an activist, and people support her financially based on these things, her being a hypocrite should damage her credibility with regards to her activism. I would think her supporters would want to know that they are funding an activist for mental health, who has no problems trying to cause someone to have mental health issues if it benefits her (that's actually quite disturbing).
But in terms of her making/selling games, yeah who cares. Even if you morally think she's a terrible person for cheating, that really has no impact on the game industry or you as a consumer. It really has nothing to do with any of us (as you said, it's between the bf and her). But I do think some of his allegations beyond just the cheating is pretty damaging to her credibility as an activist. Just me though.
Then again, it's not like she's an elected official where you have a right to know (as you elected them and they have a responsibility to you). Activism is a free enterprise, and people give up their money freely to who they want. So while I think her followers might want to know she's a fraud when it comes to the things she preaches (allegedly), I'm not sure that's something they have a right to know either?
Of course they don't owe him. Doesn't give them a right to sabotage things for him though.
Do you have any idea how fucking stupid you sound? So just because I enjoy JonTron's video I'm now a misogynist? Go.Fuck.Yourself.
It's too much work to actually read and internalize that whole list, so as a practical matter, it's not really possible to make sure I don't support any of their work. That said, if I see and hear someone actually supporting him, like when Whoopi did (who I previously liked), I'll probably cut them off, like I did with her.
THAT SAID, there's still a big difference between raping a child and signing a petition to free him because you're in some twisted show business club that looks out for its own. One is far worse than the other.
I'll see what I can do!
Admiral Woofington
Member
Welp this is getting out of hand lol. Now we're accusing folks who enjoy totally unrelated works of sharing his views?
This has reached "if you eat Chic Fil A you are against gay marriage" levels.
This has reached "if you eat Chic Fil A you are against gay marriage" levels.
Except no one (that I've seen) has said that. We're having so many problems with reading comprehension in this thread that I don't think it's productive anymore to try and go on.
Admiral Woofington
Member
You'd need to forgive me if what you said about us being complicit if we subscribe to him could be taken as such, it wasn't exactly elaborated so reading comprehension is slightly an issue.
You seem to be resorting to insults to undermine man, take a chill pill.
if someone has a platform from which he says nasty things, and you subscribe to his platform, you are complicit in him having a platform. That's the only thing I said. I never accused anyone here of sharing any of his views.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Then it's my mistake. The wording was murky and a wrong assumption was made. My bad.
Here's a few names you may know:
Very different, of course, like there's a big difference between signing a petition in support of a child rapist and saying stupid shit on Twitter about a scandal like the one we're talking about here.
I'm not defending JonTron, as i said i don't care about the guy outside of his videos (which is my whole point, really) but if you can close an eye on the people on that list, i'm sure you can fathom people enjoying his videos, yet not agreeing with his views, still enjoying his videos.
You'll have to forgive me, again, as I've clarified a couple of times already, my statement on Polanski was a self-contained response to someone else who invoked him. Total sidetrack. I had absolutely no intention of comparing Polanski's actions to Jontron's actions.
Vocal Orgasmizzle
Banned
I was always OK with JonTron, never really found him funny but never had a reason to hate the guy.
As far as his comments go, he's pretty damn stupid. I don't take too much insult to it cause sadly a lot of people with those dumb views existed. No, men and women are not an equal ground when it comes to who is shitted on the most. Jon is just regurgitating stupid male teenager shit on how "we have it just as bad!". Nope, girls are far and beyond have worse representations in the medium. I'm not even a fan of Anita or whatever her name is and her videos, it's blatantly obvious and i feel like her videos exist cause of people like Jon not realizing things outside of their own bubble.
So yeah, don't dislike the guy still. I use offensive words myself for comedic purposes but at least I have the common sense to know when and where. And Jonny boy here has been acting like a shitbag all over with this.
On an unrelated and dumber note: Maybe this is why he left/got kicked out of/whatever game grumps. Doesn't Arin always say he's a feminist or something? This is probably where shit started.
As far as his comments go, he's pretty damn stupid. I don't take too much insult to it cause sadly a lot of people with those dumb views existed. No, men and women are not an equal ground when it comes to who is shitted on the most. Jon is just regurgitating stupid male teenager shit on how "we have it just as bad!". Nope, girls are far and beyond have worse representations in the medium. I'm not even a fan of Anita or whatever her name is and her videos, it's blatantly obvious and i feel like her videos exist cause of people like Jon not realizing things outside of their own bubble.
So yeah, don't dislike the guy still. I use offensive words myself for comedic purposes but at least I have the common sense to know when and where. And Jonny boy here has been acting like a shitbag all over with this.
On an unrelated and dumber note: Maybe this is why he left/got kicked out of/whatever game grumps. Doesn't Arin always say he's a feminist or something? This is probably where shit started.
That's a disappointing list of people. I can only hope they don't have all the facts and are just supporting "their fellow filmmaker." The details on what went on are really completely fucking disgusting and nobody who knows them and calls themselves a human being could support that piece of shit.
Jawmuncher
Member
yeah I was like "man this must be a good one" until I showed up
Yep same here.
With that said he approached his opinion wrong and the linking to the comic wasn't a good idea.
But I can't say that this series of events is going to change my mind on watching his videos. It actually just makes me wonder why both sides are so hung up on what she may have or may not have done. I'm reading through all of this and I can't understand why we aren't just done and haven't reached a middle ground.
Indeed.
RadarScope1
Member
Huh? You're not understanding my posts. Both ARE bad, yes indeed. But in order to use the "men, too" argument as some kind of counter to the issue would require an actual example of objectification of men. A power fantasy is not it. It's practically a non-sequitur.
In other words it's like someone saying "Boy, women are not portrayed very well in games..." and then someone else saying "Well, I had oatmeal for breakfast." If you can find an example of male game characters being hyper sexualized in order to appeal to female audience, and then blatantly marketed as such, then yes, by all means, that would be a great example of "men, too."
And both would be bad.
(Though I would argue that one or two examples in the face of decades of it done to women is hardly much of a counter point.)
Agreed. But since we are on the topic of supporting people that believe or support in terrible things (sorry to jump into the conversation randomly)...
How practical is this? Realistically speaking, almost everything you buy probably has some tie back to something you don't support. Is the idea that, the stuff you DO know about, you have an obligation to not support that?
I always have a hard time with this. Take Chic Fil A for instance. I understand that one could say that by going there and giving them money, that money is essentially going into the hands of a person/company that will then turn around and use that money to support something you vehemently oppose. But realistically speaking, your money goes into paying the people that work there as well, or pays the bills that keep the lights on. It's not as if 100% of your money is going directly to support a cause you don't like. It's a complex system where a lot of people rely on said money.
So in a practical sense, does it really make sense to boycott them?
Admiral Woofington
Member
If we really start to consider where our money is going and tho whose hands then the world becomes a shitty place because we won't always agree how the money is spent. You may not agree that person X might use the money for Y cause, but the Z service you always use eventually has that money go to... shit I ran out of cool letters. "letter" cause, but you don't really care for said cause but it may cause just as much if not more harm.
Professor Beef
Banned
Jon is in the public eye. And just like anyone in his or a similar position, you have to watch what you say lest you alienate a portion of your fanbase. If they want to let his sponsors know that they won't be watching anything related to him or the sponsor because of it, then they are completely in the right. This is like, Public Relations 101.
I don't really understand why people are still talking about Zoe Quinn's sex life here. That was never the issue most people had with her.
Regarding Jon's recent tweets, I really recommend people check out the VOD of his recent podcast with TotalBiscuit (it should be on Polaris' youtube channel soon). He explains his actions really well and I thought their perspective on all this were really refreshing and interesting.
Regarding Jon's recent tweets, I really recommend people check out the VOD of his recent podcast with TotalBiscuit (it should be on Polaris' youtube channel soon). He explains his actions really well and I thought their perspective on all this were really refreshing and interesting.
I'm sorry to keep getting baited into this, but what sort of refreshing or worthwhile perspective allows for one to behave like this? He's a pig.
ProcHoliday
Banned
If he's such a pig and if you despise him as much as you seem to then...why are you even in this thread? People are here because they enjoy his videos and think he is humorous. Then over the last 3 pages of the thread I see your avatar pop up every other post to tell people how they're wrong because they have chosen to watch this guy's stuff as entertainment. There are a ton of people who agree with you on Twitter and I'm sure a lot of them would be willing to have a discussion about he's the worst person in the world or whatever. The rest of us are just here to enjoy Youtube videos and laugh at a goofy guy that's making them. Take it somewhere else man.
someone else invoked his recent tweets again, and said his perspective is actually "refreshing". I can't resist that, it's a weakness of mine -- so I must know what is so refreshing about this guy's perspective? what could that possibly mean? I don't even understand how one can defend this guy. And if you can't, stop trying to and stop bringing it up.
There's nothing wrong with filing a complaint and that wasn't really the scenario that I was responding to. As I've said way earlier though, it probably won't amount to anything since none of this has had a visible change in Jon's viewership. If whatever Jon is doing at the moment is what's making money, then Polaris likely aren't going to get in the way of it. That's Business 101.
I complain about Pewds all the time and think he is pretty much trash of the lowest common denominator. That said, he's the most subscribed person on YouTube and rakes in mad cash for screaming into a microphone. It's easier for me to accept the idea that whatever he does doesn't fall into my interests. At least in Jon's case he does a much better job not letting his dubious qualities shine through in his videos.
The same VOD also contains him apologizing for having offended people by the way.
ProcHoliday
Banned
Anyway...all those things you just said weren't me. But, why do you feel the need to force your opinion on to other people, some people like him and you don't. Is it so necessary in your life for you to make sure that everyone has the exact same opinion as you. So much so that you have to linger in this thread until someone says something "nice" about Jontron and then you jump all over them pulling in videos from 5 years ago while telling them they're wrong. It's all opinions, get do something else. Find a new Youtube person to watch. It's going to be okay if everyone doesn't have the same opinion as you, that's why they're opinions.
I'm even starting to annoy myself with the volume of my replies, so I'll give it a break after this -- But here are my feelings on this for "apologizing for offending people"...
He basically just said that Mrs. Quinn isn't up to his standards of beauty such that she's not worthy of even being the subject of internet outrage. Women face all kinds of bullshit all the time, but this is the kind that really annoys me. The idea that a woman is judged first only by her appearance and that's the sum of her value. She's not worthy of being outrageous or a badguy or being argued over, because she's not up to my, Jontron's, high standards of physical beauty.
That shit is cutting, and it's very indicative of what kind of person this is, whether or not he tosses out a "sorry if you were offended" self-interest apology. I need more than that.