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He cried about C++ limiting him during development of The Witness

 

[ReyBrujo]

He cried about C++ limiting him during development of The Witness

Interesting, hard to believe C++ would be limiting, it's almost the lowest level you can go nowadays in enterprise environment.

 

[phant0m]

Interesting, hard to believe C++ would be limiting, it's almost the lowest level you can go nowadays in enterprise environment.

Towards the end of development of The Witness, Blow became frustrated with C++, the programming language Thekla used to create the game. Blow considered the language to be over-complex, noting; "C++ is a powerful language in some ways ... but it makes [software development] a lot harder than it should be". In September 2014, Blow delivered a talk on his Twitch channel about the possibility of a new programming language designed for game development. He evaluated alternative systems-level programming languages such as Go and Rust, but ultimately expressed the desire to create a new language.

2.5 2017–present: Jai programming language, untitled Sokoban game, and Braid, Anniversary Edition

 

[Interfectum]

He cried about C++ limiting him during development of The Witness

I lost all respect for him after that. He has wasted fucking years trying to make a new programming language. Then on top of that creating a new engine with said programming language. I can't think of a worse waste of time and money. Dude made himself irrelevant because he thought he could do better than C++.

 

[semiconscious]

another 'modern' game developer, like media molecule, no longer interested in actually developing games...

 

[Spukc]

Super duper pro hint: make new games instead of reselling old shit

 

[Shake Your Rump]

I honestly didn’t even realize it came out.

I was actually planning to buy it, and this is the first I've heard of it being released. Absolutely zero marketing, I guess? Proof that marketing is a must.

Hey Jonny, we all played it back in 2008. We're good.

I still have the original download on my PS3. I don’t need this, Blow. Sorry. You’re a cool and smart guy but I have no need for this.

remakes, remasters and re releases are a waste of time/money, you can just play the original.

I honestly wish more people thought like this.

 

[ReyBrujo]

He has wasted fucking years trying to make a new programming language.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Why is he an asshole that we should be glad it's selling like shit?

Is this an entire thread of people getting Jonathan Blow mixed up with Phil Fish? I honestly don't understand it. Blow has made two great games, and he was one of the only people standing up for consumers when Microsoft was planning on making an entire console feature an always online requirement.

 

[N30RYU]

So he must have get the message we don't care if it survives or not

 

[Kenpachii]

Make the witness 2, i will buy it for 60 bucks.

 

[Krathoon]

Well, if you want something simpler than C++, try C#. You can use Monogame to make your game.

Problem solved.

You can also use Godot or Unreal Engine.

 

[Krathoon]

I mean that was the point of C#. To simplify C++.

We live in an age where you can leverage free engines and libraries to make games.

 

[hemo memo]

First, I didn’t even know this game was released, and I regularly visit an enthusiast gaming forum. So, what does that say about how well it was promoted to the average gamer?

Second, just updating the graphics isn’t enough to make it worth replaying the same exact game.

Third, they could have at least added some new levels or cutscenes and not just slapping dev commentary like it’s this massive selling point.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Just kidding, but honestly I think I have this game in my library for 15 years and never started it. It looks a bit boring by indie standards nowadays.

 

[FoxMcChief]

jonorthan blow

I can hear that sweet angels laugh.

 

[Wildebeest]

Back when Braid came out, people thought that the indie game space would be way more cerebral and artistic than it ended up being. I said back then that gamers say they want art and the respect for being into sophisticated, intelligent games, but if you give it them they don't want it. They just want the respect and legitimacy while still consuming dumb sub Hollywood shit.

 

[Three]

Is this an entire thread of people getting Jonathan Blow mixed up with Phil Fish? I honestly don't understand it. Blow has made two great games, and he was one of the only people standing up for consumers when Microsoft was planning on making an entire console feature an always online requirement.

What's going on with the audio on some youtube videos going silent in sections? I thought it was censors but then I hear Cliffs f bomb loud and clear.

Also one more point of failure was a good prediction from Blow with the recent xbox one issue that had some failing due to that online connection.

 

[YCoCg]

1) Didn't even know this was out

2) Outside of some bonus features what was actually remastered? The game already looked good at high resolutions due to its watercolour style, so any blur from upscaling wasn't really a negative thing

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[Arsic]

Braid was a mediocre game.

And that’s the truth.

Has this guy tried making a better game?

 

[LegendOfKage]

What's going on with the audio on some youtube videos going silent in sections? I thought it was censors but then I hear Cliffs f bomb loud and clear.

Also one more point of failure was a good prediction from Blow with the recent xbox one issue that had some failing due to that online connection.

Pretty sure that's not you tube, and the video has been like that for years. Audio issues during an E3 live broadcast.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Hey Jonny, we all played it back in 2008. We're good.

And it didn't need a remaster honestly.

I like the guy mostly for how outspoken he is. We need more guys that have some balls to say some industry shit that a lot of people dont wanna hear. He had a great talk with Moriarty some months back

Exactly, look at how many people here calling him an asshole though

 

[Neff]

Why is he an asshole that we should be glad it's selling like shit?

Pretentious, egotistical, 'misunderstood genius' who got depressed when Braid received accolades because it wasn't the right kind of intellectually informed praise. Frequently criticises publishers and developers despite having only made three games. And is generally a bit of a prick-

 

[FoxMcChief]

I can’t wait for Soulja Boy to shit on his new engine.

 

[Raven117]

Obviously, it's a remaster of a 20 year old Xbox live arcade game.

It’s not a 20 year ol….fuck you.

 

[ShirAhava]

I hated that game at the time I defo don't want to play it now

 

[Cert.in.Death]

I bought it. Played and platinumed it too.
It was fine. The Witness is a far better game, IMO, despite it becoming painfully self-reverential by the end.

I'm also not certain what the motive was behind remastering Braid. Sure, it's a love letter by the development staff, but surely someone should have asked "Who is going to play this?" and hopefully not answer "that one GAF user who is a giant D."

 

[MiguelItUp]

I legit forgot the Anniversary Edition even came out, lol.

 

[kapshin]

"Is it me?" yes JB it's you.

 

[ProtoByte]

Maybe if he spent more time making games instead of creating his own programming language (why?) the studio would be in a better position..

I've enjoyed his games but any issues he has with running a studio are entirely his doing. He finds some parts of c++ bad, so writes an entire custom programming language to develop a game (8 years in, still nowhere near ready) that looks like it would take a year to make in an off the shelf engine.

Blow is actually addressing multiple issues members of this site have expressed over the course of this gen.

We're constantly lamenting why game design, aesthetics and mechanics are so "homogeneous", and why they seem to be coming out with less polish and rigor than what was coming out before.

Well, part of it has to do with the fact that a large proportion of teams, AAA or indie, are licensing technology instead of building their own in house proprietary stuff, which is harder to do and maintain than ever. Most of the reasoning for that has to do with the fact that it's easier for programmers. As a result, more and more fast and loose workflow procedure is built around these commonly understood, fast and loose packages that stack on more and more features.

Other than philosophy, Blow has said he's going to the extent of building his own language and engine because he wants maximum control of how the game looks, plays and feels. Turns out that it takes a lot of effort, time and money to do so, even for a puzzle game.

So maybe there's something to be said about that. Maybe the industry is the way it is because not even enthusiasts are willing to pay in to the degree needed for auteur studios, or truly "innovative" games.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

People like that amaze me. He has zero respect for the game or Johnathan Blow. It is hillarious.

Every artist worth their salt knows that once you release your creation to the world it ceases to be yours.
Let people enjoy your work on their own terms, or find a different job.

 

[{insert code here}]

Blow is actually addressing multiple issues members of this site have expressed over the course of this gen.

We're constantly lamenting why game design, aesthetics and mechanics are so "homogeneous", and why they seem to be coming out with less polish and rigor than what was coming out before.

Well, part of it has to do with the fact that a large proportion of teams, AAA or indie, are licensing technology instead of building their own in house proprietary stuff, which is harder to do and maintain than ever. Most of the reasoning for that has to do with the fact that it's easier for programmers. As a result, more and more fast and loose workflow procedure is built around these commonly understood, fast and loose packages that stack on more and more features.

Other than philosophy, Blow has said he's going to the extent of building his own language and engine because he wants maximum control of how the game looks, plays and feels. Turns out that it takes a lot of effort, time and money to do so, even for a puzzle game.

So maybe there's something to be said about that. Maybe the industry is the way it is because not even enthusiasts are willing to pay in to the degree needed for auteur studios, or truly "innovative" games.

I 100% understand building your own engine and that used to be a common practice. But that's completely different from building your own programming language. The issues you talk about in modern game development I don't think exist because of C++. It's been around for ages and was never a problem in the past and isn't a problem in other industries today. You can build your own engine, in C++, and more or less get that maximum control that you're describing.

 

[Starbuck2907]

No one knows the remaster exists. This is the first I’ve heard of it.

 

[Danjin44]

 

[ProtoByte]

I 100% understand building your own engine and that used to be a common practice. But that's completely different from building your own programming language. The issues you talk about in modern game development I don't think exist because of C++. It's been around for ages and was never a problem in the past and isn't a problem in other industries today.

Blow argues otherwise. All I'll say is that it does seem software across the spectrum is getting to be lower in quality.

You can build your own engine, in C++, and more or less get that maximum control that you're describing.

You're probably right. I will say that Blow's building a new language is definitely more of a crusade. He literally said something along the lines of "I want to save coding". Lol

Still, I think the engine discussion is something valuable to bring up, because if its this much of a pain in the ass for a contemporary puzzle game, what does it look like for a set of modern AAA action-adventure and/or open world games? It's obvious publisher don't find it practical: EA and their weakening Frostbite mandate; Square Enix's issues with Crystal Tools, then Luminous Engine, just to land on UE4, etc.

 

[Hudo]

Interesting, hard to believe C++ would be limiting, it's almost the lowest level you can go nowadays in enterprise environment.

Yeah. C++ has a lot of flaws but being limited by it is certainly not one of them.

The main gripe I do have with C++ is that it should've gotten a central package management tool like 10 years ago, vcpkg and Conan are a pain in the ass. And a unified build system. Cmake, Ninja, Meson et al. are all a pain in the ass.
I wish the fucking C++ committee would demand something along the lines of Rust's Cargo tool.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Blow argues otherwise. All I'll say is that it does seem software across the spectrum is getting to be lower in quality.


You're probably right. I will say that Blow's building a new language is definitely more of a crusade. He literally said something along the lines of "I want to save coding". Lol

Still, I think the engine discussion is something valuable to bring up, because if its this much of a pain in the ass for a contemporary puzzle game, what does it look like for a set of modern AAA action-adventure and/or open world games? It's obvious publisher don't find it practical: EA and their weakening Frostbite mandate; Square Enix's issues with Crystal Tools, then Luminous Engine, just to land on UE4, etc.

Penny's Big Breakaway is a perfect example of an independent developer building their own tech with fantastic results, and even using an unproven programming language in the process.

If you haven't played it and are into 3D platformers, I urge you to give it a try. It feels fantastic and performs that way too. It definitely makes a strong case for building your own tech, without going as overboard about it as Jonathan Blow.

Penny's Big Breakaway is a perfect blend of old-school platforming and brilliant innovation

Digital Foundry says that Penny's Big Breakaway is a perfect blend of old-school platforming and brilliant innovation.

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Diddy X]

It’s not a 20 year ol….fuck you.

Shut the fuck up bro.

 

[Roberts]

I liked the game when I played it million years ago. It felt like cry for help from a very troubled soul so that is kind of cool - we have too few auteurs making games, assholes or not.

But there is no way I am buying it again, because it still playable via xbox bc

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Maybe don't remake games if they don't need remade?

Looks he thought he could get away with a Nintendo level remaster, but didn't realize those would never fly on PC.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

the game came out in early 2000's people have moved on to other types of gameplay.

 

[boutrosinit]

People like that amaze me. He has zero respect for the game or Johnathan Blow. It is hillarious.

I adore his energy toward the game. Doesn't give a fuck about what it's 'meant' to be, just making his own fun, high as fuck. Love it.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

I think this was the first "Indie" game I ever bought. It was great at the time but yeah I have zero interest to revisit it. Would definitely like to see something new though, I am a fan of his work.

 

[Jack Package]

Probably shouldn't have made it far too expensive for what it is.
It was £25 when it launched, it was in the Steam sale a week later for £11, and now the price is £16.75.

NO SYMPY

 

[alphachino]

I bought it on the 7th of this last month for €4.38, it is worth about 9.99 IMO because the original was fantastic and my wife had never seen or played it before so it was an easy purchase for me.

Blow is one of the best indie developers. Don't know where the hate is coming from. He's got a very good track record and is one of the few people trying to push forward the art of making games.

 

[LastBattle]

I don’t know man? I don’t care about a near 20 year old indie game. Seems no one else does either? Not surprisingly really. It’s time in the limelight has looong passed.

 

[Doctor Hades]

Much as I respect Indie developers for making smaller, interesting games that don't follow the bland triple A templates, it is sad to see games like Braid getting an 'Anniversary Remaster'. Was that really necessary? Could the developer have not perhaps invested their time into making Braid 2 instead? Not every game needs an anniversary re-release and/or remaster in my opinion.

 

[AJUMP23]

You finished my puzzle game here is a video of my garden.

 

[alphachino]

Much as I respect Indie developers for making smaller, interesting games that don't follow the bland triple A templates, it is sad to see games like Braid getting an 'Anniversary Remaster'. Was that really necessary? Could the developer have not perhaps invested their time into making Braid 2 instead? Not every game needs an anniversary re-release and/or remaster in my opinion.

Remasters are useful for studios to gain experience with a new toolchain and are really nice to have as consumers... Expectations of massive sales is what is unnecessary