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July Wrasslin |OT| The Game, The Kane, The Pain, and The Insane (AJ)

S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
Heavy said:
That's because WWE had several Cena-level wrestlers during that time. Today it's a different story, he's all they got. The roster is extremely thin with super over stars.
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This time last year they had a star who was bigger than Cena ever was, what did they do? Feed him to someone who doesn't even wrestle any more. Don't try them blame what they're doing on fan reactions. Hell I'd argue the "Cena sucks" chants don't contribute to him being over with. They just make him look bad, you can't even try and argue that it shows people watch to see him lose because he never fucking does. Bryan was more over when he was recieving "Yes!" chants from the entire crow and they've done their best to kill that.

Cena's not pushed because he's over, he's pushed because he appeals most to their current target market and that's exactly what's been killing their ratings.
 
S

SquashMatch

Member
Alucard said:
Cena actually has a bit of a move set, though. Hogan barely did anything. I know. I have his anthology. Most of his matches are boring as shit. Even the ones you think are "legendary," are merely adequate in retrospect. He had some solid storytelling, and his promos were intensely wicked, but I think as a wrestler Cena is actually more varied and talented. Hogan had better storytelling in the ring, though. No one can doubt that IMO.
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Hogan's storytelling was damn good. It is the only reason he hung around for as long as he did. WM 18 match was some of the best storytelling I have ever seen, Rock and Hogan were completely on fire that night. Cena is more talented for sure but he hasnt evolved at all. He does the same thing year after year like Hogan did but he cant tell a story in the ring and his promos and lack of respect to his opponens promos completely kill any feud he is in. Love him or hate him Hogan could sell PPV's and tickets. Even though you knew he would win his buildups gave just enough doubt to keep people from completely writing off his opponent. Cena is uncapable of doing that.

I just dont understand it, PPV buys are down, Stock price is very low, ratings are nowhere near the early 2000's level and Vince still wont let anyone else run with the ball. Blows my mind!
 
T

TheNatural

My Member!
Heavy said:
You can't manufacture Rock/Austin levels of mega stars. You can't churn them out of a factory. All the stars have to align for guys to get that over, even the time period. In today's hipster, jaded society Austin wouldn't have gotten nearly as over as he did in the late 90s.
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No one would have gotten over today because there's no out of ring build to push a guy as a mega star. Wacky shit like throwing the IC title off a bridge, beer truck, destroying cars with cement, etc. Whens the last time they let a wrestler have their own stage to be that gimmick out of the ring? Shit its been years. Hell even the super low card guys like Al Snow and Bossman were feuding over Bossman cooking his fucking dog AND FEEDING IT TO HIM. Yeah, some ridiculous attitude era shit, but it was SOMETHING.

And that right there is the reason guys back then got over, because there was something, no matter how ridiculous. You knew who the New Age Outlaws were. You knew who Al Snow was. You knew who Crash Holly was. The guys on fucking WWF Superstars on Sunday morning has better gimmicks than high card guys today.

Everyone had a gimmick, and they all had some kind of hook out of the ring to let them have some notable personality. And now? All the guys are stale and vanilla. There's no difference between Ziggler, and Kofi, and Miz, and Rhodes, and Del Rio. Sure they all do things a little different, but they have no persona whatsoever compared to 90's wrestling.

They're vanilla guys, almost as if they came out of a randomly made WWF Attitude create a wrestler. And they wonder why these super pops appear for former WWF wrestlers in the 90's they trot out to beat down Slater every week?
 
A

Alucard

Banned
bangai-o said:
i always though Hogan sucked in the ring because he was old, this being during his hollywood hogan days. did he always suck? as for Cena. he is absolutely nuetered due to Vince fearing injury.
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Hogan's moveset:

body slam
punch
kick to the mid-section
big boot
leg drop

That's honestly about it. What made Hogan work was his character and his storytelling. He was limited in what he could do, but the guy could SELL pain. Sure, eventually he hulked out and ran over guys, but when he was taking beatings, you felt total sympathy for him.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Alucard said:
Hogan's moveset:

body slam
punch
kick to the mid-section
big boot
leg drop

That's honestly about it. What made Hogan work was his character and his storytelling. He was limited in what he could do, but the guy could SELL pain. Sure, eventually he hulked out and ran over guys, but when he was taking beatings, you felt total sympathy for him.
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You didn't mention AXA BOMBA
 
E

Eidan

Member
Ithil said:
No, he isn't. He's over, yeah. But it's just "over", as in they like and cheer him. They like and cheer Santino, too.

They were rabid for him a year ago, that's what over as fuck is.
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Punk was at his most over when Cena and McMahon were his foils. He hasn't had any thing close to that feud since Triple H decided to stop everything dead in its tracks.
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
Why doesn't Cena go pursue other things outside of wrestling?
I'm so sick of seeing him. There is no redeeming quality about him. It's like he shoves the fact that shit is predetermined in my face.
 
W

worldrunover

Member
Ithil said:
No, he isn't. He's over, yeah. But it's just "over", as in they like and cheer him. They like and cheer Santino, too.

They were rabid for him a year ago, that's what over as fuck is.
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What Punk had last year was not sustainable... without a foil. Punk was so over BECAUSE of Cena, and what Cena represented. The problem is Cena is WWE's cash cow. So how were they going to be able to maintain that dynamic? There's no way they could.

If Stone Cold didn't have Vince McMahon, he could never have been "over as fuck" for as long as he was. Punk didn't have a guy who could be that sustained foil for him. I really don't know what they could've done. And don't say Cena heel turn. It wasn't going to happen.
 
I

Ithil

Member
Heavy said:
He was over with us, not the jimmies which are the majority. Don't let the CHI and NYC crowds from back then cloud your judgment.
Click to expand...

The Chicago crowd might have been the most insane, but every crowd they were in from of in July and August were chanting for Punk nonstop.

This was to the point that were more adults there than usual BECAUSE of Punk.
 
A

Alucard

Banned
SquashMatch said:
Hogan's storytelling was damn good. It is the only reason he hung around for as long as he did. WM 18 match was some of the best storytelling I have ever seen, Rock and Hogan were completely on fire that night. Cena is more talented for sure but he hasnt evolved at all. He does the same thing year after year like Hogan did but he cant tell a story in the ring and his promos and lack of respect to his opponens promos completely kill any feud he is in. Love him or hate him Hogan could sell PPV's and tickets. Even though you knew he would win his buildups gave just enough doubt to keep people from completely writing off his opponent. Cena is uncapable of doing that.

I just dont understand it, PPV buys are down, Stock price is very low, ratings are nowhere near the early 2000's level and Vince still wont let anyone else run with the ball. Blows my mind!
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No doubt that Hogan could sell a story, and that he could sell a PPV. He always had that doubt in his eyes. He was powerful but vulnerable...you believed he COULD lose, even when your brain told you otherwise. You're right...we don't get that with Cena. Cena just shits all over his competition in promos and doesn't look scared or nervous at all. He's just this invincible force that no one can touch.
 
D

DMczaf

Member
8iL3C.jpg
 
S

SquashMatch

Member
Alucard said:
Hogan's moveset:

body slam
punch
kick to the mid-section
big boot
leg drop

That's honestly about it. What made Hogan work was his character and his storytelling. He was limited in what he could do, but the guy could SELL pain. Sure, eventually he hulked out and ran over guys, but when he was taking beatings, you felt total sympathy for him.
Click to expand...

Hogan did the little things better than anyone of his era. He sold pain, he cut the best promos, he told the best story, and he engaged the audience in a way that no other guy back then could dream of doing.

Hey you missed a few of his moves!

Eye Rake
Head Bite
10 punches in the corner
Suplex
Standing Elbow Drop
Back Scratches

Wow, his moveset was pretty terrible.
 
B

Barack Lesnar

Banned
Kyoufu said:
Someone make Heavy stop.

His posts along with his avatar really make me want to punch myself in the face.
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How about you stop insulting people for no reason? Nothing at all wrong with my posts the last few pages. It's a civil discussion with both sides making good points. Get off my fucking nuts. Durrrrr look at Heavy he's making posts someone make him spotttttttt!

MegaKungFuRadio said:
I've had him on ignore since he started posting again. It's nice except for when people quote him.
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Pathetic. Nothing at all wrong with my posts today. No trolling, nothing. Fuck off. Ignored.
 
S

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Heavy said:
He was crazy over with us, not the jimmies which are the majority. He was over with them but not crazy over. Don't let the CHI and NYC crowds from back then cloud your judgment.
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean anything. SCSA wasn't massively over from day one. Punk was getting main stream attention. Ride it out, and let the fans come in naturally. Don't just neuter him from day one. DONE HAVE HHH GET INVOLVED, BEAT HIM, ALL IN THE NAME OF A KEVIN NASH FEUD!!!!!!!!!!
 
I

Ithil

Member
worldrunover said:
What Punk had last year was not sustainable... without a foil. Punk was so over BECAUSE of Cena, and what Cena represented. The problem is Cena is WWE's cash cow. So how were they going to be able to maintain that dynamic? There's no way they could.

If Stone Cold didn't have Vince McMahon, he could never have been "over as fuck" for as long as he was. Punk didn't have a guy who could be that sustained foil for him. I really don't know what they could've done. And don't say Cena heel turn. It wasn't going to happen.
Click to expand...

HHH heel turn. HHH is a good heel, and he could have played the evil authority figure for Punk to go up against.

But no, instead it became about HHH, who even beats Punk clean on PPV.
 
B

Barack Lesnar

Banned
Seriously, this thread makes me rage. I was having perfectly good discussion with Ithil and others, no cussing no trolling no nothing. Just giving my opinion and making a few decent points, while they were also making good points. Then these assholes drive-by with their "Someone make Heavy stop posting plzzzz!"... "I've had him on ignore for so long!". I mean what the fuck guys?
 
A

Alucard

Banned
Heavy said:
Seriously, this thread makes me rage. I was having perfectly good discussion with Ithil and others, no cussing no trolling no nothing. Just giving my opinion and making a few decent points, while they were also making good points. Then these assholes drive-by with their "Someone make Heavy stop posting plzzzz!"... "I've had him on ignore for so long!". I mean what the fuck guys?
Click to expand...

Haven't been posting here that long, but I think most people here see you as a WWE apologist who doesn't look at the company with a critical eye.
 
UberTag

UberTag

Member
Alucard said:
So, if people shouldn't boo Cena, what should they do?
Click to expand...
They should turn away from the ring and sit in abject silence.
If he's the main event, they should leave early and go to their cars.
If he's on TV, they should change the channel.
And they should expose anyone that cheers (or even boos) the John Cena character to superior wrestling products.
 
T

TheNatural

My Member!
Alucard said:
No doubt that Hogan could sell a story, and that he could sell a PPV. He always had that doubt in his eyes. He was powerful but vulnerable...you believed he COULD lose, even when your brain told you otherwise. You're right...we don't get that with Cena. Cena just shits all over his competition in promos and doesn't look scared or nervous at all. He's just this invincible force that no one can touch.
Click to expand...

The difference between Hogan and Cena is Hulk, you know, HULKED THE FUCK UP and won. It was his gimmick - get his ass kicked and then the power of the crowd feeds him to become invincible. Similar to you know, the Undertaker's "rise" or Sting's chest pound or whatever else. It's a part of what made him HIM.

Cena has no gimmick. The guy literally just gets the shit beat out of him, and a minute later just wins for no rhyme or reason. There's no actual story in the match because it just breaks conventional wrestling wisdom. It's like if Hogan, instead of hulking up, just randomly body slammed a guy and hit a leg drop to win out of nowhere, just because.

That's why Cena is so annoying and it's a trollworthy thing. Cue the Vince "LOL Cena wins" pic.
 
B

BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!

Member
Heavy said:
How about you stop insulting people for no reason? Nothing at all wrong with my posts the last few pages. It's a civil discussion with both sides making good points. Get off my fucking nuts. Durrrrr look at Heavy he's making posts someone make him spotttttttt!


Pathetic. Nothing at all wrong with my posts today. No trolling, nothing. Fuck off. Ignored.
Click to expand...

You admitted to not washing your nut sack, I'm pretty sure no one wants to be on them.
 
D

Diablos54

Member
Heavy said:
Seriously, this thread makes me rage. I was having perfectly good discussion with Ithil and others, no cussing no trolling no nothing. Just giving my opinion and making a few decent points, while they were also making good points. Then these assholes drive-by with their "Someone make Heavy stop posting plzzzz!"... "I've had him on ignore for so long!". I mean what the fuck guys?
Click to expand...
Just ignore them and stop bitching about it. Who the fuck cares?
 
S

SquashMatch

Member
CM Punk was being talked about on the news, ESPN, and mainstream sports websites nationwide. He accomplished in one month what John Cena will never do in his entire career. Punk was on track to be the biggest star of the new generation and then HHH did what he tried to do to Rock and Austin. He buried his momentum and left it for dead. HHH nearly killed the attitude era, he absolutely murdered the post austin and rock era, and he destroyed the one guy that was capable of being the crossover mega star that HHH always thought he should be.

Last summer CM Punk was the hottest thing to hit wrestling since the birth of Stone Cold. That is an absolute fact. It is also a fact that HHH is ruining the WWE and he has done his best to do so for a long ass time.
 
I

Ithil

Member
I wish someone in the crowd would scream, really loudly, at a quiet moment in a Cena promo "Just FUCK OFF Cena!". I would laugh.
 
B

Barack Lesnar

Banned
Alucard said:
Haven't been posting here that long, but I think most people here see you as a WWE apologist who doesn't look at the company with a critical eye.
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Rose-colored glasses. I've criticized plenty, even tonight.

Diablos54 said:
Just ignore them and stop bitching about it. Who the fuck cares?
Click to expand...

I care. I don't care if that makes me come off sensitive or thin-skinned, guess I am. Nobody else gets this shit, I'm the punching bag.
 
B

Brinbe

Member
Heavy said:
Seriously, this thread makes me rage. I was having perfectly good discussion with Ithil and others, no cussing no trolling no nothing. Just giving my opinion and making a few decent points, while they were also making good points. Then these assholes drive-by with their "Someone make Heavy stop posting plzzzz!"... "I've had him on ignore for so long!". I mean what the fuck guys?
Click to expand...
Relax, breh... it's not serious.
 
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