OldJadedGamer
Banned
JCM, not even sure why you are arguing. You said yourself you don't even own an Xbox, have never paid for XBL, so there is no way on God's green earth this could ever happen to you.
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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Uno Venova
Banned
I think the customer should only be mad at Microsoft who can't figure out who has a legit copy or not and bans everyone and asks questions afterwards...
block people from online not on the whitelist, or wipe stats on launch day, both are better than this stupid current solution.
Neither of these reasons means he shouldn't be in here....?
OldJadedGamer
Banned
IHaveCandy
Banned
Why doesn't Microsoft simply track the people and see what happens? How about sending them an automatic email inquiring them about them playing Halo 4? How about checking to see if they have any other history of other suspicious activity in the past and for future incidents? It would make more sense to ask questions before shooting, not shooting and expecting innocent customers to go to them to ask why they were just shot.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
The day you get home and pop in your game? You've lost receipts that quickly and were unable to go back to the store and get another one? Damn. I guess that can be somewhat possible...somewhere on the planet. Either that or the guys a liar.
How is the hardware "crippled" when it is banned from Xbox Live?
The hardware all still works.
It still plays games.
It can connect to the local network.
Xbox Live (the service) simply refuses all connections.
This is something that is stated in the ToS that every user agrees to. And it's a lot less (in terms of scope) than the actions Sony took with the PS3 when it disabled OtherOS access on the systems.
In that case Sony actually did cripple the hardware's functionality and, so far, the courts that have seen the case have sided with Sony.
Not liking the policy is no reason to resort to hyperbole.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Crippled means that it has been diminished and is now less capable,. A banned Xbox is diminished and less capable.
Oh, I dunno, you won't be able to download your previously bought games?
I've also heard something along the lines that online play is big on consoles these days, losing that ability, especially if you have paid for it, might be a bit unfortunate.
Sarcasm aside, if this is not crippling a console, what is?
I've also heard something along the lines that online play is big on consoles these days, losing that ability, especially if you have paid for it, might be a bit unfortunate.
Sarcasm aside, if this is not crippling a console, what is?
Without going through a laundry list, first thing that comes to mind is lack of post-release support for said games. Can't patch your titles - bad news for the more and more often occurance of release-date patches to fix last minute bugs. That alone I believe is enough to call it "crippled".
DangerousDave
Member
The good part of this thread is that it give me a lot of ammo for the next thread about used games. I think that I could even argue about the convenience of banning people that buy used games, using the same arguments of the pro-banning of this thread.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Well didnt they say they wanted to link games to consoles next time, kinda like PC is. So used games wont even be an issue eventually.
DangerousDave
Member
That game has been used in another console with another gamertag. Show me the receipt or you'll be breaking my ToS rules!
So what? I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I'm not allowed to point out the ridiculous contortions you've been going through to support your favorite company? This is the second time you've resorted to this weak argument.
Yes, this is a perfectly sensible solution. If they only accepted pre-release connections from whitelisted gamertags (for testers, reviewers, etc) we wouldn't be having this conversation. I wouldn't even let people unblock it. I think telling people no multiplayer until the official release date is eminently reasonable. My problem is with console- or account-banning paying customers, and then forcing them to jump through hoops to have that ban lifted.
It hasn't been that way since at least Halo: Reach time.
If you're banned from Xbox Live for pre-release play because you legitimately bought a copy early, the XBL Support conversation will go down exactly as I stated.
If you don't want to bother with support (since they can't do anything directly and can only point you to the enforcement team) then you can just skip that step and go to the forums. They're public and open to all.
Saying that "you can't get a ban undone without special access" isn't true. Now, if you have no record of a purchase (no receipt, no credit card bill, no debit transaction, no retailer willing to say they sold it to you), then you might have a little trouble with the forums and need a hand from on high. But the average consumer who buys something before street date will be unbanned as soon as they show a receipt. They'll probably even get a free month of Live for their trouble since MS CS seems to hand those out like candy.
So why have we not seen an outcry from original Xbox owners when Live 1.0 was shut down?
Where's the class action lawsuit against Microsoft for "crippling" millions of systems?
I'm not trying to be pedantic, but sticking to less emotionally loaded terms will probably keep the discussion move civil
Silly.Mikey
Banned
I don't see why they couldn't do this. They can block your xbox, it cant be that much more complicated.
But it is a bit scarier this way and you tend to be more careful when you know that your xbox will be banned. Fear is what i think they're going for here. Not simplicity or efficiency.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
If I was the OP, I'd throw the retailer under the bus and give MS their name so I could get unbanned. Of course If I was the OP, I wouldn't play a highly anticipated game, that's had thousands of leaks and people banned for playing early -- before release date.
Microsoft should tell their retailers, "Not only will you get fined if you break release date, but people you sold this too early may get banned, so you'll be screwing your customers."
Microsoft can't win in this situation. Ignore it and let anyone play or not enforce street dates and fight piracy, everyone who can't get a copy early will be pissed at them. Get too strick, try and preserve the release date, banned people who shouldn't be playing.. everyone is pissed at them.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
They do tell them. Which is why the employees who aren't completely lost will usually mention it to you or you know, not sell you the game.
That's not what illegal means. Illegal only refers to the law.
illegal |i(l)ˈlēgəl| adjective
contrary to or forbidden by law, esp. criminal law
I'm not falling on any sword. I'm posting my opinion on a discussion forum. And for a guy who doesn't like MS you've sure spent a shitload of time defending their anti-consumer behavior.
Uno Venova
Banned
lol, no happy medium huh. Generalizing is cool too.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
ahh depend. A small store can still break the street date easily. I bought a couple of games before street date without a problem.
This policy doesn't fight piracy to begin with. Nor does it stop anyone from playing the game offline early, so any word of mouth concerns are at best a wash if not worse (see this thread). The only thing it really serves is to prevent online play; stands to reason MS could "win" by just not making that service available early and not blind-banning end users. That might inconvenience them in some way however, so they would prefer to just push as much of that onto their users. Many of which are apparently happy to take up responsibility for some corporation's concerns.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Thats why i blame both the store and the consumer. The consumer knew something was off right at the cash (even calling it sketchy) and ignored it and the store also ignored the fact that the sale wasn't going through, and i guess didn't even ask a supervisor either to make sure. Then to top it all off, the guy even loses the bill to that "sketchy" sale.
Whatever man, I don't pity either of them.
It seems like your defending MS in this thread pretty consistenly, The store is absolutely to blame as is MS, if someone get a game early there's no way they should be banned as long as it's a legit copy of the game.
Who cares he bought the game legitly and than MS banned him for playing it, The fault lies with the store for selling it early and more so with MS for banning.
MS should never ban for this and it's ridiclous that anyone is defending that they should.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
That still remains to be proven.
So, just a lost in translation here. But being banned has nothing to do with the law. Its the Xbox Live policy.
ODST case store aciddentally broke the street date. Microsoft is aware of, people who bought dont get banned.
OP case, store deliberately broke the street date (apparently just for him), microsoft is not aware of, guy is banned. Microsoft is aware of the case here on gaf, and even saying his copy is not legit, guy disbanned.
Don't know where the Microsoft conduct has changed.
Didn't realize that was the case with XBL Support - if so, that's a good step in the right direction for them (addressing bans instead of stonewalling).
I don't think its fair to compare a current generation, widely used system with current releases to a machine that hasn't recieved retail support for years. There was only a small handful of users remaining when the service was shut down. Feels like a false equivalency, there. Not only that, but, critical patches delivered almost immediately post title shipment is a trend that has shot through the roof in the current generation - losing that capability for your Xbox 360, or PS3, is far more damaging to your gameplay experience on those machines than the original Xbox.
The fact that this discussion has gone on beyond Frankie's reply is enough to say that this discussion has moved beyond the point of civility, unfortunately. Sure is entertaining though!
Yes blaming both is fair. In my case the store I go to, is always warning me about going online. They always say that to me. "New York" before buying a game before "Street Date" I am aware of the consequences. Not everybody knows this and not every store warned you about it. Depend of the contest of the situation. A lot of small stores want to compete and releasing a product earlier give them an edge. "ignoring the rules"
OldJadedGamer
Banned
But again, it's a chicken and the egg type of situation. He wouldn't have been banned if he didn't do something shady and under the table at the retailer.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
No i understand that. But how does someone know the rules if they don't inform themselves on them? I'm sure ms has put them out there somewhere, which is why i say the consumer needs to protect and educate himself and not just hope for the best.
He has a legit copy that's enough proof for me to think him getting banned is insane and shouldn't have happened and it's ridiclous to defend MS when they banned him when he has a legit copy before the release date.
He still shouldn't have been banned for playing a legit copy of the game, there's no reasoning in the world why he should be banned for playing a legit disc version of Halo 4 before the release date.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
I can go shoplift and get a box with disks. A pic isnt proof of legitimacy. Its not a downloaded game, sure. That doesn't prove legit.
Having people work phones? An early unlock code would be a lot better.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
He could have stolen it and given the same picture in the OP.
Getting into semantics here, OJG. "Legitimate" as in "not a pirated copy", is what the posters you've been replying to are meaning.
What? He could have been given a receipt and not been told a word by the seller and still would have been banned.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
They already do, 18004myxbox
OldJadedGamer
Banned
OP wasn't given a receipt and the OP also said the retailer told him they would not ring it up on their end. The OP himself used the word "shady" to describe the transaction.
He could have or he could have purchased it either way we don't know other than his word.
It's still a legit retail copy of the game and he was banned for playing it, it's not a pirated version or one that won't be in stores, There's no reasonable excuse to ban someone for playing a legit copy of the game before the release date.
It proves it's legit in the fact, it's the disc copy I will be getting next week.
The store's accounting has nothing to do with whether a sale happened. He gave them money, they gave him the game, the sale is done. If I buy a video game from you, I don't have to wait until you log the transaction somewhere for it to become a real sale.
Where are you getting the accident from? MS is aware that the street date will be broken for every single video game they offer for sale. Whether the clerk did it on purpose or not is not something MS knows.
Edit: Sorry I quoted the wrong post.
Yeah, and he was also unbanned anyway so I don't see what that has to do with anything. Him having a receipt would have still resulted in a ban.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Id agree if we were after the release date and there wasn't a leak, but we aren't after and there was a leak. MS has the right to be extra cautious at this point. And yes, having a box is in fact a retail game, but it still doesn't prove that it wasn't stolen. And add to that no bill and there's even less proof.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Don't get all Amirox up in here, jerk.
A lot of people are clueless about this thing even a lot so call "gamers".. Believe me lol. I worked for a video game store and what they are thinking about in that moment is to have that item on their hands. In the small store I worked at we warned customers about the games we were selling before Street Date.. my boss at the time didn't care about it he just wanted that money asap.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Damn, sorry about that. Fixing it now.