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[element]

Uh, nobody's going to lose their job over lack of sales because one guy broke the street date, dude.

And you should know this considering you're a dev.

I'll give you some examples.

Hypothetically say I work on a game, it is ok, but really not great. Some store sells that game early and word gets out that the game isn't that good. Game comes out, doesn't sell because of word of mouth. Game doesn't make its money back. People lose jobs.

I write a book. A store sells it early. Someone says that the main character dies, so no one cares to buy the book. I go broke.

We live in a very connected world now and word of mouth is huge and travels fast, globally. You might think it has no affect, but it very well could.

 

[netBuff]

If he doesn't want to get banned it's his responsibility to know it. Do you expect Microsoft to confirm with every Xbox owner that you will be banned for playing the game early? They did their part, they made the announcement and it's undoubtedly been in the T&Cs for a long while now.

That's really taking "treating your customers terribly" to a whole new level.

It's being pirated since it got leaked. They're trying to prevent pirates from playing the game. I would prevent people from pirating my product too if I put 100 million into it.

Do you think games just come from magical trees that grow on sunlight and water?

Tell me again: Why am I as a customer that just paid well-earned money for their game concerned about the Xbox 360's sloppy security model?

I write a book. A store sells it early. Someone says that the main character dies, so no one cares to buy the book. I go broke.

Nobody actually cares about spoilers that much. If the twist is the only thing worth knowing about the experience, the product is likely not worth buying.

 

[Retro_]

But money still changed hands, receipt or no receipt.

There's no proof of transaction though, which I think is more important in a case like this anyways. (If proof was demanded in any situation, he couldn't provide it and would be completely at fault)

Not that any of this even matters. Guy is getting unbanned and anyone else in a similar situation has been extended a similar offer.

 

[polyh3dron]

I got a copy of mortal kombat 2 2 weeks prior to street date on my SNES back in the day from a local store. I took it right home and played it. I would've been pissed back then if my console lost its functionality just because I had a local store sell me a game early.

 

[StuBurns]

I'll give you some examples.

Hypothetically say I work on a game, it is ok, but really not great. Some store sells that game early and word gets out that the game isn't that good. Game comes out, doesn't sell because of word of mouth. Game doesn't make its money back. People lose jobs.

I write a book. A store sells it early. Someone says that the main character dies, so no one cares to buy the book. I go broke.

We live in a very connected world now and word of mouth is huge and travels fast, globally. You might think it has no affect, but it very well could.

Those are horrible examples. If a game is gash, people should know about it in enough time to not buy it.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

This is why the industry is fucked. People actually think shit like this is acceptable.



Yeah, your avatar suggests that you're a bit of a fanboy on this issue.

I don't see how this is MS's fault either. The majority of logged on copies of the game are probably bootlegged. If thats the case Microsoft is just doing something clearly stated in their agreements and its on the owner to produce the evidence. The only issue is how shady this whole deal is.

 

[Risette]

I'll give you some examples.

Hypothetically say I work on a game, it is ok, but really not great. Some store sells that game early and word gets out that the game isn't that good. Game comes out, doesn't sell because of word of mouth. Game doesn't make its money back. People lose jobs.

I write a book. A store sells it early. Someone says that the main character dies, so no one cares to buy the book. I go broke.

We live in a very connected world now and word of mouth is huge and travels fast, globally. You might think it has no affect, but it very well could.

The main issue here would be the quality of the game, not the breaking of the street date. If it was good (or, appealing to the tastes of the masses) then there would be no worry of people saying it's bad.

 

[Tunavi]

Tell me again: Why am I as a customer that just paid well-earned money for their game concerned about the Xbox 360's sloppy security model?

Because the store most likely gave him an unauthorized copy. Read the thread.

 

[polyh3dron]

Because the store most likely gave him an unauthorized copy. Read the thread.

Not the consumer's problem. Use your head.

 

[Felix Lighter]

It is now. More and more I think consoles going online has been bad.

Not sure how that is the case here. The console wasn't destroyed, it's just unable to connect to live. If it wasn't ever able to to go online, it also would not be able to connect to live.

Also, I hate this practice. If they want to prevent this from happening, they should have systems in place on the servers to prevent the unreleased games from being played. Banning paying customers because a retailer broke an agreement is shitty customer service.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Uh, nobody's going to lose their job over lack of sales because one guy broke the street date, dude.

And you should know this considering you're a dev.

On the other hand, nobody believes policies and procedures are in place because one guy might break the street date. "One guy" is immaterial. Policies are in place because it is never one guy.

 

[Proxy]

Apparently people don't believe in personal responsibility anymore. The OP knew that he was buying the game before the street date and knew that the manner in which the store "sold" him the game was shady as fuck. As the OP has said, he loves the Halo franchise, so it's certainly not unrealistic to expect him to know that the game leaked and in response Microsoft implemented bans for people who play it early. So he took a gamble and lost. In doing so he has no one to blame but himself.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Just for the record - and I know it has no baring on the actual argument - but I've given some spoiler-free impressions (didn't even give map names) on here and elsewhere, and while I have nitpicks, said impressions have been overwhelmingly positive. And this is coming from a guy that has been a bit disappointed with the last couple titles.

I think I've probably persuaded more than one person who was on the fence to buy it.

;p

 

[Prologue]

What kind of retail store even does something like this?
Uhh yeah man take the game but I can't give you a receipt till launch day.. The fuu?

Very common in cities. I use to walk into game stores when I was younger and pick up games a few days up before release date (COD MW,GTA4,Halo Reach)I never got banned for any of those games. MS knows halo 4 is out on the net, I doubt they could tell the difference anymore with who actually has a copy and who is playing a modded copy.

Seems to be a bit drastic to be banning people who are playing a hard copy of the game. In the grand scheme of things ,its a pebble in an ocean.

 

[Wildesy]

That's really taking "treating your customers terribly" to a whole new level.

I'm not debating that and I've said multiple times in this thread I don't agree with banning users who have bought the game legitimately. I was just debunking that guys point about how it's Microsoft's responsibility to ensure everybody is aware they can/will be banned for playing a game earlier. It's in their T&Cs in some form, so the responsibility falls to the user. Now they obviously won't enforce permabans if the person can legitimately prove they brought it because it'd be a PR nightmare, but they are well within their right to do so.

 

[DiscoJer]

What kind of retail store even does something like this?
Uhh yeah man take the game but I can't give you a receipt till launch day.. The fuu?

That's actually one way smaller stores compete with chains/online. I used to go to one music store that would do it and give out front dated receipts.

They'd only do it a few days ahead though.

 

[Deadbeat]

Microsoft needs to detect custom firmware better. The cat and mouse game with release dates and legit early acquirers would be solved. The guy got a legal version of the game early.

 

[Retro_]

I got a copy of mortal kombat 2 2 weeks prior to street date on my SNES back in the day from a local store. I took it right home and played it. I would've been pissed back then if my console lost its functionality just because I had a local store well me a game early.

lol

 

[Tesseract]

video games, everybody.

 

[netBuff]

Because the store most likely gave him an unauthorized copy. Read the thread.

Tell me again: Why do I as a customer have to care about the retailers agreement with the distributor on when they can start selling the game? I'm not a party to their contract, I can legally buy Halo 4 from any store that is willing to sell the game to me. I shouldn't have to be concerned about any products street dates.

Apparently people don't believe in personal responsibility anymore. The OP knew that he was buying the game before the street date and knew that the manner in which the store "sold" him the game was shady as fuck. As the OP has said, he loves the Halo franchise, so it's certainly not unrealistic to expect him to know that the game leaked and in response Microsoft implemented bans for people who play it early. So he took a gamble and lost. In doing so he has no one to blame but himself.

You are looking at the issue backwards: It's Microsoft's responsibility to ship the game late enough that it can't be sold too early, the customer doesn't have any obligation to obey any "street dates".
What if you bought a new yoghurt one day early, do you think the producer would be justified in coming over and smashing your freezer?

 

[antitrop]

I totally feel for you, I would be just as pissed in the same situation.

I doubt they will give you your gamertag back, but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic.

 

[Choc]

i just want to cool down the thread. What i am hinting at is nothing cool at all, will not change the world and you won't see it at all.

It's just a message currently on live for media to explain something, thats it, tahts all.

it correlates with why MS is being so tough on halo being played online.

 

[EatinOlives]

I'll give you some examples.

Hypothetically say I work on a game, it is ok, but really not great. Some store sells that game early and word gets out that the game isn't that good. Game comes out, doesn't sell because of word of mouth. Game doesn't make its money back. People lose jobs.

I write a book. A store sells it early. Someone says that the main character dies, so no one cares to buy the book. I go broke.

We live in a very connected world now and word of mouth is huge and travels fast, globally. You might think it has no affect, but it very well could.

Has that ever happened on any scale close to Halo 4's? Do you really think there'd be that much of a difference? Do you honestly think word of mouth wouldn't get out if the product wasn't street broken?

Sorry, but I don't buy your argument.

On the other hand, nobody believes policies and procedures are in place because one guy might break the street date. "One guy" is immaterial. Policies are in place because it is never one guy.

Like I said before, the amount of street-broken copies is minimal on any wide release unless something goes shittastically wrong, and knowing MS I don't see the amount of street-broken copies being high enough to affect sales such that it causes people to lose jobs.

 

[DopeyFish]

i just want to cool down the thread. What i am hinting at is nothing cool at all, will not change the world and you won't see it at all.

It's just a message currently on live for media to explain something, thats it, tahts all.

it correlates with why MS is being so tough on halo being played online.

yeah, it's ranks.

 

[Wildesy]

So after I buy every game I should scour the Internet for the console manufacturer's latest press releases to date every time to make sure I can safely play them. Got it. Not everyone is that Internet savvy.

If you absolutely want to ensure you don't get banned from Microsoft online service, then yes, how is that difficult to understand? Do you understand how terms and conditions work? You're missing my point though, I'm not arguing that the onus should (in theory) be on the user to check, ideally it wouldn't, it should be on the retailer to ensure they don't break the date. But retailers do break street dates and Microsoft will ban you for playing early, as they've previously said, so ultimately the responsibility lies with the user.

 

[polyh3dron]

lol

wat

 

[seat]

Hasn't Microsoft done this exact same thing before with every major Xbox 360 Halo release? You'd figure people would learn by now.

 

[StuBurns]

i just want to cool down the thread. What i am hinting at is nothing cool at all, will not change the world and you won't see it at all.

It's just a message currently on live for media to explain something, thats it, tahts all.

it correlates with why MS is being so tough on halo being played online.

So they don't see some message for the press? That makes no sense at all. Considering press accounts are tagged, they just wouldn't display the message to non-press.

 

[Choc]

Skellington probably did see the message when he first logged in as he got in early.

 

[Tunavi]

Not the consumer's problem. Use your head.

not microsoft's problem either.

Tell me again: Why do I as a customer have to care about the retailers agreement with the distributor on when they can start selling the game? I'm not a party to their contract, I can legally buy Halo 4 from any store that is willing to sell the game to me. I shouldn't have to be concerned about any products street dates.

Do you have the game? Were you banned? Unless you were, stop complaining, jesus christ.

The OP is getting UNBANNED by a microsoft employee ASAP.

 

[Homeboyd]

i just want to cool down the thread. What i am hinting at is nothing cool at all, will not change the world and you won't see it at all.

It's just a message currently on live for media to explain something, thats it, tahts all.

it correlates with why MS is being so tough on halo being played online.

They got to him. Hushed.

Expect megaton. If no megaton, huge disappointment.

 

[Kadey]

It's been common sense since the first Xbox to watch out when you go online with an early copy of any major title. Whether it's a legit copy (which it isn't from a publisher's standpoint) or not doesn't change things.

 

[Prologue]

If you absolutely want to ensure you don't get banned from Microsoft online service, then yes, how is that difficult to understand? Do you understand how terms and conditions work?

The real world doesn't work that way, sorry.

 

[The Elite]

I get that MS doesn't want stores selling this early but don't take it out on the consumer. There are going to be people who may just find it on a store shelf early and don't even know the release date. They're going to be really confused when they suddenly find their console banned. Also, they don't have Franke to bail them out.

 

[polyh3dron]

If you absolutely want to ensure you don't get banned from Microsoft online service, then yes, how is that difficult to understand? Do you understand how terms and conditions work?

I take it you can tell me honestly that you read every EULA you agree to?

 

[element]

Has that ever happened on any scale close to Halo 4's?

I wouldn't say on the scale of Halo 4. But for other games the margin of error is there.

Do you really think there'd be that much of a difference?

Depending on the game, yes I think the difference could be there.

Do you honestly think word of mouth wouldn't get out if the product wasn't street broken?

That is what embargos are in place for.

knowing MS I don't see the amount of street-broken copies being high enough to affect sales such that it causes people to lose jobs.

It has nothing to do with the amount of units sold before the street date. It has to do with the affect of it being broken. Either through word of mouth or piracy.

 

[Homeboyd]

He was talking about the test message of the day that we have up right now. Basically says that all the servers are still going online and there might be occasional mp outages. Although, to the credit of our services team, we haven't experienced any downtime so far.

:|

 

[polyh3dron]

It's been common sense since the first Xbox to watch out when you go online with an early copy of any major title. Whether it's a legit copy (which it isn't from a publisher's standpoint) or not doesn't change things.

Maybe common sense for savvy GAFers, but for the majority of the game buying public, no it's not.

 

[Karl2177]

Tell me again: Why do I as a customer have to care about the retailers agreement with the distributor on when they can start selling the game? I'm not a party to their contract, I can legally buy Halo 4 from any store that is willing to sell the game to me. I shouldn't have to be concerned about any products street dates.

There's three parts to this equation: Producer, retailer, and consumer. Where do you think the fault lies and why?

 

[StuBurns]

Why are little stores even getting the game so early? Couldn't MS just only deliver to the 'ma and pa' stores the day before? If they can't be trusted not to break the date, don't even give them the chance.

 

[Risette]

There's three parts to this equation: Producer, retailer, and consumer. Where do you think the fault lies and why?

Retailer because they broke their contract/agreement with the distributor.

Pretty easy

 

[Choc]

:|

Yes its that. But my point is MS isn't ready for the millions of people so thats another reason they are keeping people off the servers

if you go on and it crashes day 1 you think its shit

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

I take it you can tell me honestly that you read every EULA you agree to?

What? You are still liable to it if you pressed the I agree button.

Hopefully you get your account back OP but lets be honest, you tried to get away with something shady and it didn't work.

 

[Wildesy]

I take it you can tell me honestly that you read every EULA you agree to?

I don't really see how that is relevant. Not reading them doesn't make them void.

 

[jrDev]

If the person does not have the receipt of a game that's not officially released, then what proof does he have that he purchased it legitimately?

This. Everytime I read polyh3drons responses, I'm going "wtf, where is the proof?"

I would just think "I have a legit copy, there's no way MS would ban someone for playing a legit copy, they're not that evil, and why should I hide my console from XBL, I've done nothing illegal" and then boom.

Then you are pretty naive.

 

[Kadey]

Maybe common sense for savvy GAFers, but for the majority of the game buying public, no it's not.

I know people who aren't hardcore gamers and some not even gamers that know this fact. Yeah, there are billions of people that surf the net and have read articles of such things happening. The fine print of "Not to be sold before blah blah blah blah" has been around for well over a decade. Things that have been around for a long time do get to the general public whether they have something to do with it or not.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Not the consumer's problem. Use your head.

Stores problem. They sold the game under the table. That is like working for cash and complaining when the IRS asks about the income.

 

[polyh3dron]

What? You are still liable to it if you pressed the I agree button.

Hopefully you get your account back OP but lets be honest, you tried to get away with something shady and it didn't work.

He has a legit copy that he paid for. How is that shady?

 

[Sponge]

I gave on Microsoft ages ago after their horrible customer treatment (not to mention Rare) you should really just not bother with them.

Honestly, don't even really give a fuck if I have to buy another console. I'll deal. But can I at least get my Gamertag back?

I never got this mentality, not with red rings nor stunts like this. It's a shame people are so eager to just waste more money on a company that does such awful things like this to their customers.

 

[EatinOlives]

I wouldn't say on the scale of Halo 4. But for other games the margin of error is there.
Depending on the game, yes I think the difference could be there.
That is what embargos are in place for.

And I'm talking on the scale of Halo 4. You're saying you support this because it's an application of a principle, except the principle doesn't apply to Halo 4. You're contradicting yourself.

If you're talking about some iOS game where it's a do-or-die issue for many games you could make a case, but at any rate most of the times when that applies to a game there wouldn't be enough of a lockdown to place the game on such a strict embargo, if such a thing is even possible for an iOS dev to enforce.

As for the other games, it might affect sales adversely to some degree, but never to the point where people would lose their jobs. I'm going to have to ask for proof on that one because I've never seen that happen.