Support NeoGAF

[Raitosaito]

I think the multiplayer component is justifiable in having a release date. A lot of the online components have to be tweaked up to the last minute, and if you purchase a game with a multiplayer component you should know that it's not a finished product.

The single player component should be considered separate. As a consumer if you got the game, it's finish, it's the final product then it's not your concern anymore.

 

[FINALBOSS]

i just want to cool down the thread. What i am hinting at is nothing cool at all, will not change the world and you won't see it at all.

It's just a message currently on live for media to explain something, thats it, tahts all.

it correlates with why MS is being so tough on halo being played online.

Dude if you're gonna keep playing run-around and not spill the beans just shush about it. Good lord.

 

[Mizzou Gaming]

I don't know this kinda shady deal doesn't exactly meet the criteria for a ¨legitimate purchase" so yeah I will defend the banning. And NO I am NOT defending Microsoft here I am defending Karma deal with it.

 

[Zeal]

I wanna know more about this: How can you tell based on packaging? Is the disc printed differently from your/343's print-run or what?

Curious how OP got burned on a "non-legit" copy more than him breaking street date.

He probably meant it is not a legitimate sale due to the fact that Halo 4 was not rung up. I once had a Walmart employee give me Dark Souls early by actually typing in the game manually and the price. This somehow allowed the employee to bypass the "No Sale" error you get when attempting to ring up a game not yet released.

I must admit, it was epic seeing that game go through.

Spoiler

It was two weeks early.

 

[antitrop]

I don't get how people here are throwing blame between Microsoft and the OP--it's the store's fault. MS has every right to ban an account that seems suspect (and I imagine playing fucking Halo 4 early raises a big red flag), and the dude has every right to buy something he sees on shelves. The only person who broke a contract here was the store, which both parties can reasonably blame for inconvenience and wasted resources (time, money, etc.).
Microsoft deserve no blame unless they don't rectify things in a timely manner once the situation is clarified with them; but these things take some time, which the OP has only the store to blame for (unless, of course, he went and asked them for an early copy or something).

Actually this is true, I was kind of missing the point myself even. I agree with this.

 

[Choc]

Finalboss what i was talking about has been exposed in the thread.

There is a message about services right now.

 

[Schobeleth]

Usually these types of things happen from mom and pop shops, problem is if distributors/publishers find out about this kind of thing they'll get blacklisted. Street dates are set for a reason.

I'm sorry OP, I understand it was a legitimate purchase, but it wasn't a legitimate time. Being online, playing a game that shouldn't be out yet, especially a high priority game like that - I would be surprised if you didn't get into trouble, you know? Still, I'd try to plead your case and get your account back at least.

 

[The Faceless Master]

what happened is simple. for years, there was a battle between Microsoft and pirates, and they would 1up each other when it came to detecting pirated games and making pirated games appear legit. Microsoft would update their detection methods, collect data occasionally, then order 66 a large group of people. Pirates would try and watch changes in detection, update their hiding methods and get around the latest challenges. What happened is the pirates won, so now Microsoft has shifted from a reliable method of detection to just banning people who play "too early", and that should be a cause of concern for anyone who legitimately purchases games. i know i was routinely able to get many games a week plus ahead of street date from various locations in NYC and it's not exactly a hard thing to do...

 

[Risette]

Finalboss what i was talking about has been exposed in the thread.

There is a message about services right now.

Can I get my money back or do I need a receipt?

That was underwhelming

 

[Nilaul]

So official they didn't give him a receipt.

So Microsoft should just nuke him instead.

I bet the OP is not the only one getting banned, others probably purchased the game. Some may have a receipt , some may not have been given one, so may had been offered one but they refused to take it. Should Microsoft still ban all of them? At the end of the day that person paid for the game and sooner or later Microsoft will receive its money.

 

[Data West]

Apparently, Halo isn't the only one

Logging on before WWE '13's release date will result in a ban to your account.
It has come to THQ's attention that some enthusiastic WWE Games fans have received copies of WWE '13 in advance of the game's release date and have started utilizing the game's online features. However, since we are in the final stages of our pre-release server testing, we have been forced to ban anyone using these features ahead of release.

 

[shandy706]

Good to see he'll be unbanned.

However, I'm amazed at how people attack MS over this.

It reminds me of a friend of mine that was recently fired from a job.

Marijuana is legal where he lives, but smoking it on the job = instant ban/firing. He knew that but took an INFORMED chance and lost his job.

I get the feeling many here would blame the seller for giving him weed despite the decision to chance using it when he should just play it safe.

Oh no! He's the victim! LOL "victim" .....seriously?

Yeah...not directly relatable, but there's no way I'd have played it online....and I didn't know they were banning people straight up.

 

[Choc]

well thats interesting given they didnt ask for GT's on that one

 

[StuBurns]

Now people have really bought the game, does that mean GAFfers who've just pirated can pretend they did too, and can discuss their experience with the game? I have questions about it, and there doesn't really seem to be a fitting thread at the moment.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Finalboss what i was talking about has been exposed in the thread.

There is a message about services right now.

Only took 3 pages, grats.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I don't get how people here are throwing blame between Microsoft and the OP--it's the store's fault. MS has every right to ban an account that seems suspect (and I imagine playing fucking Halo 4 early raises a big red flag), and the dude has every right to buy something he sees on shelves. The only person who broke a contract here was the store, which both parties can reasonably blame for inconvenience and wasted resources (time, money, etc.).
Microsoft deserve no blame unless they don't rectify things in a timely manner once the situation is clarified with them; but these things take some time, which the OP has only the store to blame for (unless, of course, he went and asked them for an early copy or something).

What? If it's not his fault, why is it ok to ban him? What kind of logic is that? Microsoft absolutely has to assume that there are people out there who can buy Halo 4 right now. So why do you think it is acceptable to ban these people?!

 

[Choc]

Only took 3 pages, grats.

when you're under an NDA, you have to be careful :|


i was trying to push you guys to read between the lines and i didnt start the hype train, people just took what i wrote and went to 100mph

sorry about that but i was just trying to give another side as to why MS is keeping people offline

 

[antitrop]

Good to see he'll be unbanned.
However, I'm amazed at how people attack MS over this.
It reminds me of a friend of mine that was recently fired from a job.
Marijuana is legal where he lives, but smoking it on the job = instant ban/firing. He knew that but took an INFORMED chance and lost his job.
I get the feeling many here would blame the seller for giving him weed despite the decision to chance using it when he should just play it safe.
Oh no! He's the victim! LOL "victim" .....seriously?
Yeah...not directly relatable, but there's no way I'd have played it online....and I didn't know they were banning people straight up.

I live in Colorado and have a legal prescription to possess and use marijuana, but I would never even think about driving under the influence or smoking at work. That's just ridiculous, even if it's legal. Alcohol is legal but I don't bring a flask to work with me.

Your friend is just an idiot.

 

[TheSeks]

I believe he was referring to it being sold before the release date, thereby breaking the store's contract with Microsoft and hence making the sale 'illegitimate'. I doubt he meant it was illegitimate in the pirated/fake copy type way.

Then he should say "broke streetdate, that's why you got banned." Which adds another factor in as: Why would MS ban you for playing a game before street date if you have a LEGIT copy of the game. I thought MS had piracy detection stuff on Live to where they didn't misfire on the banhammer?

 

[BruiserBear]

what happened is simple. for years, there was a battle between Microsoft and pirates, and they would 1up each other when it came to detecting pirated games and making pirated games appear legit. Microsoft would update their detection methods, collect data occasionally, then order 66 a large group of people. Pirates would try and watch changes in detection, update their hiding methods and get around the latest challenges. What happened is the pirates won, so now Microsoft has shifted from a reliable method of detection to just banning people who play "too early", and that should be a cause of concern for anyone who legitimately purchases games. i know i was routinely able to get many games a week plus ahead of street date from various locations in NYC and it's not exactly a hard thing to do...

So why weren't you banned then?

 

[antitrop]

So why weren't you banned then?

He unplugged the ethernet cable?

 

[element]

So, uh, guys, what happens if my Halo 4 Console gets here early from Amazon (I regularly get stuff from Amazon faster than they say)? Will I get in trouble if I hook it up? It'd be a real bummer for my replacement Xbox to get banned or something.

Amazon wouldn't be stupid enough to do that. Big retailers have TONS of prevention in order to not break street dates. Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Gamespot, and so on pretty much have point of purchase systems that won't allow a sale or prevent an item from being shipped until a specific date.

The store is the big culprit here. They broke the rules, but the OP really should have taken a step back when the store admits to being unwilling to provide a receipt for the sale. Like others have said, you really have no proof you actually purchased it. The store could let you walk out the door and call the cops and say you stole it. This is more of a common sense thing for the OP.

Microsoft absolutely has to assume that there are people out there who can buy Halo 4 right now. So why do you think it is acceptable to ban these people?!

In many instances I'd say that stores aren't displaying these games for purchase. So either the store has to be selling them via word of mouth or the consumer has to ask for it. There is a bit of shady on both sides.

 

[jrDev]

It was officially released in that store, because he bought a copy.

So official they didn't give him a receipt.

Lol, this is hilarious...

Spoiler

ChocolateCupcakes is right...

 

[The Faceless Master]

So why weren't you banned then?

getting games early was never something Microsoft banned for until recently.

 

[BruiserBear]

He unplugged the ethernet cable?

Why would he do that prior to Microsoft's new policy on this topic?

 

[CambriaRising]

Lol, this is hilarious...

Spoiler

ChocolateCupcakes is right...

Technically, maybe. Practically? No.

 

[antitrop]

Why would he do that prior to Microsoft's new policy on this topic?

Microsoft banning players from playing high profile games before street date is nothing new.

The Faceless Master was probably one of the savvy enough gamers I mentioned in a prior post to know that you shouldn't connect to Xbox Live while you're playing a game early.

 

[Wildesy]

Then he should say "broke streetdate, that's why you got banned." Which adds another factor in as: Why would MS ban you for playing a game before street date if you have a LEGIT copy of the game. I thought MS had piracy detection stuff on Live to where they didn't misfire on the banhammer?

I think he knows why he got banned, that guy (MS rep or whatever) was just alluding to the fact that the game can't legitimately be sold yet.

As for your second point, well that's why he is being unbanned - because he has a legitimate copy of the game. And yeah, I made the same point earlier in the thread, Microsoft obviously can't tell the difference between a pirated version and a legitimate version anymore. Even if they could differentiate I'm sure this guy would've been banned from Halo online specifically. Microsoft already said they'd ban anyone playing online before the launch date, that didn't exclude people with legitimate copies.

So why weren't you banned then?

I'd say it's for this exact reason; because MS can't differentiate between legitimate copies and pirated copies and they don't want to go through the PR shitstorm that would rain down on them if the continually mass banned people with legitimate copies.

 

[shintoki]

Punishing the buyer, though the store is the one at fault.

 

[Mizzou Gaming]

So what would change if the game in question had been stolen? And how do we know its not? We don't so that brings us back to karma. It was a shady deal all the way around therefore Karma swoops in and takes care of business. Now what will happen the slapdick that got his console banned will have to call MS and get it unbanned by a. either showing receipt or b. telling what store this transaction took place. MS contacts store, dumb employee gets canned and this never happens again.

KARMA, its a motherfucker.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Punishing the buyer, though the store is the one at fault.

OP said he knew it was shady.

 

[MR BLACKMAGIK]

If your not reviewing the game, a writer, etc. then just wait like everyone else.

 

[Omni]

I don't know why people are arguing that MS is in the wrong here. The game was pirated and modded consoles have been playing online for more than a week now. Since the game hasn't been officially released yet, MS has simply noted everyone who is playing the game, checked their GTs against a list and if it's not on there, banned the user.

 

[Hey You]

getting games early was never something Microsoft banned for until recently.

It seems like if it's 3-4 days before release, Microsoft won't ban. Any earlier than that and the banhammer comes a swingin. I'm pretty sure it's been like that for a while.

 

[Prologue]

So why weren't you banned then?

Microsoft banning players from playing high profile games before street date is nothing new.

The Faceless Master was probably one of the savvy enough gamers I mentioned in a prior post to know that you shouldn't connect to Xbox Live while you're playing a game early.

I played my early catches (COD MW, reach,GTA 4, ect) online. No problems. As others said, this is something recent.

 

[Risette]

So what would change if the game in question had been stolen? And how do we know its not? We don't so that brings us back to karma. It was a shady deal all the way around therefore Karma swoops in and takes care of business. Now what will happen the slapdick that got his console banned will have to call MS and get it unbanned by a. either showing receipt or b. telling what store this transaction took place. MS contacts store, dumb employee gets canned and this never happens again.

KARMA, its a motherfucker.

or have frank o'connor post and state that he will be unbanned on neogaf

karma loses, lol!

 

[element]

I think the most shocking thing in this thread is people thinking Stinkles is just some random MS guy.

I played my early catches (COD MW, reach,GTA 4, ect) online. No problems. As others said, this is something recent.

No. MS had the same policy for Halo 3, Reach, and Gears 3.

 

[Fantasmo]

As a developer, I'm totally on MS side here. I'm personally surprised in the defense for the guy who bought it fully knowing he was breaking the rules and considering the store would 'ring it out' on launch day just tells you how shady it is.

Breaking streets dates is serious. While it is nice of Frank to step in and help this guy out, this guy still stepped in shit on his own.

There is a big difference between copies being sold within 24 hours of the street date and well over a week. When these games are delivered to stores they come with a very specific seal and paperwork clearly saying "DO NOT SELL BEFORE 11/6/2012", with also listing possible penalties if caught doing so.

Why is it a shame? That you can't scam the system by dealing with stores that should be prosecuted or fined? That you have to wait like all the other gamers and stores that do follow the rules?

Oh please. It's a game, and he wasn't pirating it. The world isn't going to end because he was playing it early. Look a few posts before this one of yours and Uncharted 2 players didn't get banned. The world didn't stop and copies were still sold. Nothing horrible or earth shattering was going to happen besides a guy who loves Halo had a chance to play it a bit early. I got Mortal Kombat 2 early when I was a teenager because Gamestop broke the rules. Me and my friends were ecstatic that weekend. You're a developer what happened to being happy that people love your stuff enough to pay good money for it?

 

[MaritalWheat]

What? If it's not his fault, why is it ok to ban him? What kind of logic is that?

How is Microsoft reasonably supposed to know the exact circumstances of this one dude's story? It's a totally fair assumption "you're on early, you didn't get this game legitimately." As Frankie said, it's not a legitimate copy, because somewhere in some contract it says don't sell this game until this date. So the store full well knew it was fucking the OP, whether or not he was aware of it or not.
You think if I went to some local shop, was sold something that turned out to be illegal, and then got caught with whatever item (drugs or whatever), I wouldn't have the consequences come down on me? Sure, I'll probably be fine eventually and have a chance to prove my innocence, but the cuffs come out first don't they?

 

[Wildesy]

I think the most shocking thing in this thread is people thinking Stinkles is just some random MS guy.

Is he actually Big Bill?

 

[antitrop]

Is he actually Big Bill?

Frank O' Connor.

 

[Wildesy]

Frank O' Connor.

Wikipedia says he is dead.

 

[Risette]

Wikipedia says he is dead.

the other one

 

[Good Job Bob]

Wikipedia says he is dead.

RIP Stinkles

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Wikipedia says he is dead.

He's some Halo guy apparently.

 

[jcm]

I think the most shocking thing in this thread is people thinking Stinkles is just some random MS guy.

The most shocking thing to me is that ms can't detect hacked consoles and/or pirated games. They've got a blunt tool for enforcement.

 

[shira]

Welp, guess that solves that whole argument. Fuck you, Microsoft.

I have a legitimately purchased game. It says there is no recourse on the main page.

Should I still try calling them tomorrow? I can obviously provide pictures of my game; no mod/downloaded bullshit, here:



How does it make any sense to ban someone for playing a game a retailer sold early?

EDIT: Honestly, don't even really give a fuck if I have to buy another console. I'll deal. But can I at least get my Gamertag back?

Also, I don't have a receipt. Bought it from a local game shop; they said they'd "ring it out" on launch day. Obviously a bit shady- but far from fucking stealing.

If you buy an illegal item from a legal store. It doesn't make the illegal item legal.
Why would you go online??

 

[Wildesy]

the other one

Phew. Shit was getting paranormal for a while there.

 

[Retro_]

The most shocking thing to me is that ms can't detect hacked consoles and/or pirated games. They've got a blunt tool for enforcement.

The issue is they don't want anyone online before release, pirated or otherwise, besides authorized gamertags

and they are perfectly within their rights to protect their interests by denying access in this way.

The simple solution is, don't go online before release on Xbox Live. They don't like that, and that TOS thing you signed to gain access allows them to ban your account for doing things on it that they don't like.

I think any reasonable human being can live with that

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

The most shocking thing to me is that ms can't detect hacked consoles and/or pirated games. They've got a blunt tool for enforcement.

This shouldn't shock anyone. Its Microsoft, they probably just have a catch all and let customer service deal with the complaints.