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[Byakuya769]

I hate to be pseudo taking up for Bieb's immature and moronic ass, but I said some pretty offensive shit thinking I was being cute and clever as a teen too. Some racial, some sexual, I never had an animus of hate or superiority nor did I ever say it to put anyone down or make them feel uncomfortable, but it is very embarrassing I didn't immediately know how dumb what I was doing was.

With that said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I think the bulk of us should be seen as pieces of shit until we give a pound of flesh, or whatever he's supposed to do.

 

[Satch]

I hate to be pseudo taking up for Bieb's immature and moronic ass, but I said some pretty offensive shit thinking I was being cute and clever as a teen too. Some racial, some sexual, I never had an animus of hate or superiority nor did I ever say it to put anyone down or make them feel uncomfortable, but it is very embarrassing I didn't immediately know how dumb what I was doing was.

me too tbh

and nobody would be wrong for calling me a piece of shit for it either if it came to light

 

[Byakuya769]

me too tbh

and nobody would be wrong for calling me a piece of shit for it either if it came to light

Calling you a piece of shit now?

 

[Amir0x]

Trying to be reasonable, that's all. I dislike how people are so eager to vilify and judge others at times. I find that pretty disappointing behaviour from people who like to think they exist on some moral highground.

Not trying to defend hate speech at all, if this can even be called hate speech.

I seriously laughed so hard at the "if this can even be called hate speech" part. It's so amazing.

 

[Seanspeed]

You seem to think being called a racist is worse than the actual racism.

I do not.

But I do think that being quick to label somebody racist is pretty awful, too.

Let's not forget the time you came into a thread bitching about the race card without having read the OP.

I'm eager to give people the benefit of the doubt in lots of cases, I admit(and this goes well beyond just accusations of racism). And sometimes that makes me too eager to raise the 'well hold on, lets think about this before we condemn the person' flag at times, too. I was wrong this one instance and I apologized immediately once I realized my mistake. But this sort of thinking has more often than not proven to be the right course of action in my life. I think being highly judgemental of people and ignoring all the nuance of situations doesn't make the world a better place whatsoever, no matter how good the overall intentions may be.

 

[wildfire]

I don't know the intention of his art, but a few years ago I was asked by a little autistic boy to draw a gorilla with "bling". There was no reason for his request other than he liked the idea of an anthropomorphic gorilla in an outfit he found appealing. I cringe at this art because I know what people may assume about it, even though it is completely innocent.

http://www.stutte.com/art/bling_ape.jpg

I'm only posting this to make a point, not to be ridiculed for drawing something that was not born of racism.

Yeah I get that. I was thinking about writing him totally off for it but I don't 100% know his intent. That said considering how the ape and black people association is used as a means to dehumanize black people I'm going to criticize his current behavior because it's a very dangerous mentality to give lenience to. The onus is on him to explain himself if he is conscious of how the drawing is shit.

 

[Satch]

Calling you a piece of shit now?

yeah

all you can do is clean up your act and hope for the best

however im sure it helps that i dont have a history of being a piece of shit in the modern day by doing stuff like drunk driving and putting other peoples lives in danger though

past transgressions become more and more unforgivable the less you seem willing to behave yourself in the future

see.... chris brown

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I don't think you know what literally means.

And yes, I often get depressed at people's lack of ability to be reasonable and who immediately just try and interpret things said as either 'for' or 'against', as if everything is so cut and dried.

You're right though. I should probably avoid these threads in the future, cuz its very hard to discuss anything calmly and rationally.

The problem as I see it is that you seem to be caught up in trying to be "more intelligent" as if there is actually a deep conversation to be had here.

There isn't.

 

[royalan]

yeah

all you can do is clean up your act and hope for the best

however im sure it helps that i dont have a history of being a piece of shit in the modern day by doing stuff like drunk driving and putting other peoples lives in danger though

past transgressions become more and more unforgivable the less you seem willing to behave yourself in the future

see.... chris brown

I don't know. Your unfortunate Beyhive membership leads me to believe you're capable of anything.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Trying to be reasonable, that's all. I dislike how people are so eager to vilify and judge others at times. I find that pretty disappointing behaviour from people who like to think they exist on some moral highground.

Not trying to defend hate speech at all, if this can even be called hate speech.

i wonder, OT

can jokes about killing black people and being part of the KKK really be considered hate speech?

are we too quick to vilify someone who tells these kinds of jokes?

 

[Seanspeed]

Dude, not gonna sugarcoat it: the second you come into one of these threads and try to argue with a bunch of black people about when using the word "nigger" should and should not be considered hate speech, and the basis of your argument is "be reasonable", you are making no attempt to be calm and rational.

I personally consider hate speech to be speech said out of, ya know, actual hate.

I'm not sure how that's unreasonable.

 

[Ties]

I personally consider hate speech to be speech said out of, ya know, actual hate.

I'm not sure how that's unreasonable.

 

[EscoBlades]

I personally consider hate speech to be speech said out of, ya know, actual hate.

I'm not sure how that's unreasonable.

You, right on cue.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I hate to be pseudo taking up for Bieb's immature and moronic ass, but I said some pretty offensive shit thinking I was being cute and clever as a teen too. Some racial, some sexual, I never had an animus of hate or superiority nor did I ever say it to put anyone down or make them feel uncomfortable, but it is very embarrassing I didn't immediately know how dumb what I was doing was.

With that said, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I think the bulk of us should be seen as pieces of shit until we give a pound of flesh, or whatever he's supposed to do.

I was in strong agreement earlier in the thread. But then GAF reminded me of this gem:

Really makes you see this image differently now doesn't it?

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/justin-biebers-graffiti-crime/story?id=20816124

so yea. idk, fam.

 

[FluxWaveZ]

I personally consider hate speech to be speech said out of, ya know, actual hate.

I'm not sure how that's unreasonable.

You have no idea how these derogatory words can affect a minority they're meant to deride.

 

[Supermanisdead]

I personally consider hate speech to be speech said out of, ya know, actual hate.

I'm not sure how that's unreasonable.

mhm, the kkk dont hate black people as much as they love white people

 

[Enzom21]

I don't know the intention of his art, but a few years ago I was asked by a little autistic boy to draw a gorilla with "bling". There was no reason for his request other than he liked the idea of an anthropomorphic gorilla in an outfit he found appealing. I cringe at this art because I know what people may assume about it, even though it is completely innocent.

http://www.stutte.com/art/bling_ape.jpg

I'm only posting this to make a point, not to be ridiculed for drawing something that was not born of racism.

The context of your picture is very different than Bieber's is it not? You were asked to draw this, his appears to be something he came up with on his own. You also recognize that it might be viewed as a racist image so there is awareness on your part that I'm sure Bieber lacks.
I doubt you have made nigger jokes when you were younger like Bieber so I don't see why he deserves the same benefit of the doubt you do.

I do not.

But I do think that being quick to label somebody racist is pretty awful, too.


I'm eager to give people the benefit of the doubt in lots of cases, I admit(and this goes well beyond just accusations of racism). And sometimes that makes me too eager to raise the 'well hold on, lets think about this before we condemn the person' flag at times, too. I was wrong this one instance and I apologized immediately once I realized my mistake. But this sort of thinking has more often than not proven to be the right course of action in my life. I think being highly judgemental of people and ignoring all the nuance of situations doesn't make the world a better place whatsoever, no matter how good the overall intentions may be.

Come on man, you just questioned whether or not what Bieber said was hate speech. I genuinely curious what you think actual racism is.

 

[Devolution]

Just get over words thrown at you while you were discriminated against, harassed and or assaulted brehs.

 

[Seanspeed]

You have no idea how these derogatory words can affect a minority they're meant to deride.

I do.

But unless something is said with actual malice, I have a hard time saying its 'hate speech'. Am I treating that term too literally or something? I'm not saying it isn't racist, just that 'hate speech' is something said with very direct intent.

Also, I did not realize the lyrics was about killing a black person. That makes it worse, although I still think him being 14 allows room for me to forgive.

Secondly, I never saw that graffiti. What the hell. He looks far older there. That's pretty awful.

Anyways, this'll be where I get tired of being ganged up on by the 'if you're not with us, you're against us' crowd. I'm off.

 

[eBay Huckster]

that graffiti was from barely 7 months ago if my google-fu is accurate

this ain't some kind of robert byrd situation

 

[uberluigi]

1. Both of you are dense as hell.

2. He clearly says this is normal behavior for white 14 year olds. So is it safe to assume that there's a problem in white culture? This question is a direct offshoot of the oh so often asked "Is black culture to blame for X" on GAF whenever black youth do something questionable. This remedial question is usually followed up by stupid and shitty anecdotal evidence, statistics that play to their bias and youtube links.





Watch the videos before posting to save yourself the embarrassment of sounding ignorant. The words are "One less lonely nigger, if I kill you I'll be part of the KKK".

Gawd I want to punch you people through the internet.

My mistake I was work and I just scrolled through the comments and thought he just said " nigga" no need to be hostile bro. Anyways back on topic, yeah that's no excuse to use either word whatever age you are, kids say stupid things but at that age you should know better and should definitely know the meaning of that word since they teach about slavery and the civil rights movement in school.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Won't someone think of the poor racial slur users?

 

[Satch]

Anyways, this'll be where I get tired of being ganged up on by the 'if you're not with us, you're against us' crowd. I'm off.

hes lost again
its happening
when we're around he just grows weak

bye until next time

 

[Silky]

Really makes you see this image differently now doesn't it?

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/justin-biebers-graffiti-crime/story?id=20816124

Wow.

 

[Supermanisdead]

hes lost again
its happening
when we're around he just grows weak

bye until next time

c u soon

 

[Karkador]

is that sweeping or waving

 

[Satch]

is that sweeping or waving

sweeping

 

[AlexMogil]

Bieber's taking instagram pictures of bible verses now.


SEE!?!? SEEE?! Me read gud Jerus book now

 

[siddhu33]

I'd be annoyed, but he was 14, there could be enough blame attributed to upbringing and environment...

But that graffiti though? Holy crap that's some ignorant shit right there, get on his case for that...

 

[dubc35]

Train wreck douche continues to do douchey things, shocking.

 

[Calcaneus]

I get the "dumb kid" defense because yeah I said some shitty things as a teen too, but IMO some of the shit he's saying here just goes beyond that. Jokes or not that's pretty hateful. And its not just one thing, these are multiple incidents.

It definitely should be called out, not to specifically condemn 14-year-old Bieber way after the fact , but just so that hopefully current "dumb" kids can get the message that this is wrong.

 

[Kreed]

I see what you are saying.

I'm not sure how many people here actually said he didn't know any better either though, or shouldn't have/couldn't have known better.

As far as I can tell, most people bringing up his age are simply saying he shouldn't be damned for it, and that teenagers do stupid shit (despite knowing better.)

People are taking that as a defense of his action, which it really isn't.. it's a defense of what should happen to him now because of it.

I don't think anyone here thinks/wants Justin Bieber punished for these old tapes, vs just a general conscious that what he did was bad without "oh he's only 14, lighten up" and other dismissive quotes. Justin Bieber owned up to the comments and has already started issuing apologies. Whether he means them or not is up for debate, but he as at least admitting he made a mistake and more posters should be too.

The other thing with "teenagers do stupid shit", like other posters in this thread have mentioned, discrimination/offensive ethnic group jokes are on a whole different tier when it comes to stupid shit. Stealing, graffiti, doing drugs, bullying, egging someone's house, etc... Those are things where we should be going "Oh he was only 14, give him another chance" for. Making offensive/hurtful jokes towards an ethnic group is beyond the normal "teenagers do stupid shit" realm, or at least it should be.

Going a bit off topic but in regards to people defending Bieber, there seems to be a disappointing pattern on GAF with posters defending any form of discrimination/writing it off. Paula Deen "She was from a different time". Donald Sterling "He should be free to say what he wants in private". Duck Dynasty guy "He is just following his beliefs". Mel Gibson "He made Lethal Weapon". George Zimmerman "What if Trayvon hit him?". Firefox CEO "It's his money, he can spend it as he wants". Mean old lady at the grocery story "We don't know the whole story". It would be nice if one day we can get to a point where discrimination happens and everyone agrees "Yeah, he/she fucked up".

The hypocrisy is strong in this thread.

If Dr Dre can be forgiven for beating a woman 20 years ago surely an idiot teenager saying some stupid shit 6 years ago can too.

Dr. Dre was punished for his crimes 20 years ago and had to make amends (PSAs, etc...). He also hasn't hurt another woman in 20 years. Much easier to "forgive" (I honestly don't care that much about Bieber) someone who was punished 20 years ago and appears to have been reformed over someone who we've just recently discovered did something offensive and has been on a career suicide path for months.

 

[Byakuya769]

I was in strong agreement earlier in the thread. But then GAF reminded me of this gem:



so yea. idk, fam.

... wtf.

That's straight up "oooga, booga."

 

[block tower]

Bieber's taking instagram pictures of bible verses now.


SEE!?!? SEEE?! Me read gud Jerus book now

 

[nib95]

That's pretty…damning.

Really makes you see this image differently now doesn't it?

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/justin-biebers-graffiti-crime/story?id=20816124

As is this too lol.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

The black community won't be outraged because they have been beaten down mentally over the past decades so much to point were they would defend or make excuses for supremacist views or statements from people who don't like them.

Bieber is a supremacist.....like a lot of Europeans

Because Bieber has black friends means jack shit, why put your bullshit conviction over possible millions?

....

?

And anyone saying get over it, nigger is just a word like faggot, stfu because the two words have a history that can't be compared.

Kinda

but mostly

 

[Circle Jerk]

I'd be annoyed, but he was 14, there could be enough blame attributed to upbringing and environment...

But that graffiti though? Holy crap that's some ignorant shit right there, get on his case for that...

He was raised in a middle class town in Canada. He didn't grow up in an environment where casually dropping nigger is okay. I grow up near him, and even at 14, in a basically all white school, only literal pieces of shit used racist words. He isn't 5 repeating what his parents say without understanding, he was old enough to realize what he was doing was wrong, he just didn't give a shit.

 

[Jangocube]

I do.

But unless something is said with actual malice, I have a hard time saying its 'hate speech'. Am I treating that term too literally or something? I'm not saying it isn't racist, just that 'hate speech' is something said with very direct intent.

Also, I did not realize the lyrics was about killing a black person. That makes it worse, although I still think him being 14 allows room for me to forgive.

Secondly, I never saw that graffiti. What the hell. He looks far older there. That's pretty awful.

Anyways, this'll be where I get tired of being ganged up on by the 'if you're not with us, you're against us' crowd. I'm off.

Oh, on Neogaf? Concerning race discussions? No, that never happens! Soon you'll be labeled a racist even though I know you aren't. People will also call you a racist, then when you ask for proof, they won't respond. It's good times. Openly discussing racism on this forum is a losing battle.

On the topic of Beiber, he's always been a little shit, so him continuing this pattern isn't a big surprise. I don't see him being a racist, considering the friends he has that would be a bit odd, but who knows. I don't follow everything that he does.

 

[Blackstarhat]

Well, I am just glad Justin Bieber wasn't 15, 16, 17, 18, or 19 when he said it because then it might have been a problem.

yeah alot of whites love to defend racism.

 

[royalan]

Oh, on Neogaf? Concerning race discussions? No, that never happens! Soon you'll be labeled a racist even though I know you aren't. People will also call you a racist, then when you ask for proof, they won't respond. It's good times. Openly discussing racism on this forum is a losing battle.

On the topic of Beiber, he's always been a little shit, so him continuing this pattern isn't a big surprise. I don't see him being a racist, considering the friends he has that would be a bit odd, but who knows. I don't follow everything that he does.

Well I'm glad that YOU know...

 

[Jangocube]

Well I'm glad that YOU know...

I do.

 

[plasmawave]

Usher didn't have the talk with him?

 

[Ken Masters]

14 years old

 

[Kreed]

Oh, on Neogaf? Concerning race discussions? No, that never happens! Soon you'll be labeled a racist even though I know you aren't. People will also call you a racist, then when you ask for proof, they won't respond. It's good times. Openly discussing racism on this forum is a losing battle.

Still mad about the Trayvon thread?

 

[Jangocube]

Still mad about the Trayvon thread?

Mad? Forum posts can't really make you mad.

And I don't really remember what was said, but I'm sure it was more of the same gang up mentality with little discussion of the issue at hand. That said, PM me if you want to talk about other topics besides the OP.

 

[Dice]

You do take it seriously... by reprimanding and educating him. Since that apparently already occurred, and we are years down the road, what is to be done about this? Is there a point in trying to have him forever live in shame as a perpetually disgraceful human being because at one time he needed some very heavy ignorance cleared up? If that is our standard, who doesn't forever live in shame?

If he learned his lesson, that's what needs be, and I'm fine with it being left with that. I don't know him and haven't seen a lot of evidence that he didn't learn his lesson (granted, I pay very little attention to him), so until I see such evidence I'm not going to assume that he and everyone who claims to have taken on the task of educating him to be liars.

 

[hamchan]

I know when I was 14 I was immature in a lot of areas but I was never a racist asshole, so from my view I don't consider age to be a valid defense at all.

 

[riotous]

Those are things where we should be going "Oh he was only 14, give him another chance" for. Making offensive/hurtful jokes towards an ethnic group is beyond the normal "teenagers do stupid shit" realm, or at least it should be.

I guess I find this strange.. stealing and graffiti and bullying are things that can cause harm to other people.. graffiti causes financial harm to businesses, so does stealing, and of course bullying can be incredibly harmful.

They are all deplorable to me.

It's a DIFFERENT "thing" to tell racist jokes, but I don't know if it's on another level as in well above being a thief or a vandal. None of these acts are excusable acts, but they are all forgivable.

Still confused what you are getting at too.. so he shouldn't be damned, but you just said that telling racist jokes at 14 isn't something you should "give him another chance" for? That's what I meant by "damned."

So I can steal from you and vandalize your shit and I get a second chance, but tell a racist joke and I don't get a second chance?

I guess I do have trouble relating to that. It's a different kind of deplorable act.. but very odd to put it so high above crimes that can actually harm people physically and financially.

 

[hamchan]

Of course 14 year old Justin Bieber should get another chance. But it's not like he hasn't done a whole range of terrible things the 6 years since then.

This video just confirms that he was an awful human being at 14 too, not just nowadays.

 

[McLovin]

The sad thing is his delusional groupies might become racist just to be like this douche.