Support NeoGAF

[TnK]

I don't see how appreciating someones beauty even though they've had plastic surgery is shallow? If anything I'd think that disregarding them because they're not naturally pretty would be rather shallow.

Aesthetics are shallow. They always have been. Appreciating aesthetics does not mean you are disregarding everything else. Also, having shallow admirations that are not at the expense of other things is not inherently bad, and there are many other areas where people receive things in this way and it is not looked down upon, making them hypocrites. I wrote about it on my blog once, so I'll just copypaste that here.

I was speaking about typical happy-mood kpop specifically when I wrote this, so obviously I recognize that not all art is marked by pleasantness, but can have other purposes. Also, in view of my points on natural vs cultivated quality, in non-talent areas like the visual side, plastic surgery is a choice the person makes, to close the gap. To me it is no different than that hypothetical cook with no sense of smell getting a surgery (which doesn't exist) to give him a better sense of smell.

It is a practical thing for a practical purpose that is realistic about the nature and roles of pop arts and human nature that we can't change. If the person who gets plastic surgery has a really solid understanding on these things, like say, the Brown Eyed Girls, I think that is actually pretty cool. If you are deeply bothered by it because it is more permanent than styling your hair or clothes, and that makes it "different" then you need to articulate why that difference is apparently bad to pass judgement on the practice. Your feelings do not determine truth for the universe.

Also, bear in mind that a picture doesn't show a person's heart, it shows their image. If people here like someone for their artistry or character or personality, they aren't going to post a picture of that person to share those things with others. They'll probably link to performances or post a translated interview or variety show, and that does happen pretty often.

Since we are discussing on how it is nice to view pleasant things, we as humans are made to appreciate good looking faces, whether on females or males. It is something that goes on in our brains. Now, if you add in plastic surgery, if said person is in motion, their plastic surgery work is really obvious, and we enter something similar to the uncanny valley in video games.

Also, the main problem with anyone getting plastic surgery is that it comes back biting them in the ass in the future. Human faces are meant to grow in a specific manner, but places where plastic surgery jobs were done don't really grow properly. So what happens, you see a lot of uneven places in the face, and that in general is really unpleasant.

On top of all this, I see it as shallow because it's as if people are saying "yeah, you did not look good before plastic surgery, but after plastics, you are totally attractive". This gives the impression that normal girls are not attractive by nature.

Since we are on this subject, who are natural in KPop? Only person that I know is natural is Jyuri from KARA.

 

[neoism]

dat nose <3 <3 <3

 

[Dice]

Since we are discussing on how it is nice to view pleasant things, we as humans are made to appreciate good looking faces, whether on females or males. It is something that goes on in our brains. Now, if you add in plastic surgery, if said person is in motion, their plastic surgery work is really obvious, and we enter something similar to the uncanny valley in video games.

Only in extreme cases. All things in moderation.

Also, the main problem with anyone getting plastic surgery is that it comes back biting them in the ass in the future. Human faces are meant to grow in a specific manner, but places where plastic surgery jobs were done don't really grow properly. So what happens, you see a lot of uneven places in the face, and that in general is really unpleasant.

Again, this is pretty shitty and unwise plastic surgery. It has been done without such ill effects before. Remember if any PS is successful, you can't tell the person had it.

On top of all this, I see it as shallow because it's as if people are saying "yeah, you did not look good before plastic surgery, but after plastics, you are totally attractive". This gives the impression that normal girls are not attractive by nature.

That's ridiculous. There are plenty of naturally very pretty girls, and recognizing that a girl has used surgery to become prettier than she was does not mean that all girls who have not had surgery are not yet pretty. You're making that extrapolation in your mind alone. But shall we look at results in a confirmed case like Miryo? How about an extremely likely one like Gayoon? Would you really say they aren't prettier now?

Since we are on this subject, who are natural in KPop? Only person that I know is natural is Jyuri from KARA.

Yoona immediately comes to mind. There have been many pictures from all stages of her life released and she looks the same in all of them.

 

[Pendulum]

Some scans from March Esquire.

 

[Sevarus]

TnK, I'm curious as to what you consider to be "natural beauty" when it comes to women. I'd like to see some examples. Where do you draw the line at what is natural and what isn't? Is makeup natural? How about bodyshaping tools like Spanx? Push-up bras? Dyed hair?

 

[TnK]

Only in extreme cases. All things in moderation.

Again, this is pretty shitty and unwise plastic surgery. It has been done without such ill effects before. Remember if any PS is successful, you can't tell the person had it.

That's ridiculous. There are plenty of naturally very pretty girls, and recognizing that a girl has used surgery to become prettier than she was does not mean that all girls who have not had surgery are not yet pretty. You're making that extrapolation in your mind alone. But shall we look at results in a confirmed case like Miryo? How about an extremely likely one like Gayoon? Would you really say they aren't prettier now?

Yoona immediately comes to mind. There have been many pictures from all stages of her life released and she looks the same in all of them.

The bold text is the whole point in my argument, lol. Regarding plastic surgery, not necessarily in extreme cases that you notice them. Just their normal interaction, and hoe their faces move can reveal if they did it or not. Both examples you gave me really show that they had plastic surgery. Goes into the whole "it does not look natural".

TnK, I'm curious as to what you consider to be "natural beauty" when it comes to women. I'd like to see some examples. Where do you draw the line at what is natural and what isn't? Is makeup natural? How about bodyshaping tools like Spanx? Push-up bras? Dyed hair?

Hmm, natural beauty? I guess what I would define as natural beauty are the facial features and body features that one are born with. Of course there are certain traits that are naturally pleasing for the eye, even if it was present in any race or nationality. I am cool with things like dyed hair, no idea what spanx is, googled it, and it looked like a modern version of a corset. Not too big of a fan of pushup bras, but they mostly show if one concentrates on them, so it is no big deal I guess. Make up is up to debate. Make up when not used heavily is best, as in the ones that try to bring out the best features in the face.

I have to say though, AngelaBaby is the only one that I did not know that had plastic surgery until it was pointed out. That is the only case though. She did mess up her face atm, she looked a whole lot better and "natural" back in 2011.

 

[isuzu]

 

[caesar]

wow i didnt even realise yuna kim didnt win, whole nation is salty as fuck lol

 

[dokish]

Pretty messed up what happened to &#50672;&#50500;.

She's gorgeous.

Next olympics let's see who's your daddy.

 

[ramyeon]

Next olympics let's see who's your daddy.

She's retiring after Sochi. This was her last Olympics. Shame it had to be like that.

 

[neoism]

what happened

 

[dokish]

Fuck, didn't saw the news about her retirement. Pretty sad.
Can see Koreans from now on adding one more nation to the list lol.

 

[caesar]

Korea and Russia are in the same world cup group. The salt will carry them through.

 

[jokkir]

Not exactly kpop but whatever. Thought you guys might like lol.

I haven't drawn in a while but I did draw Kyary Pamyu Pamyu just now:

I can probably fix the mistakes in detail but too lazy right now. I might draw Lizzy next.

 

[Ashhong]

Korea and Russia are in the same world cup group. The salt will carry them through.

Ooooh the drama will be so good. I look forward to seeing the Russians win nothing in Korea 2018.

 

[giri]

Not exactly kpop but whatever. Thought you guys might like lol.

I haven't drawn in a while but I did draw Kyary Pamyu Pamyu just now:


I can probably fix the mistakes in detail but too lazy right now. I might draw Lizzy next.

KPP is awesome.

I've wasted too many mornings watching her MV's.

 

[llehuty]

T-ara - First love. Not bad.

Some scans from March Esquire.

O_________O

Not exactly kpop but whatever. Thought you guys might like lol.

I haven't drawn in a while but I did draw Kyary Pamyu Pamyu just now:


I can probably fix the mistakes in detail but too lazy right now. I might draw Lizzy next.

Nice. Hyped for Lizzy drawing.

 

[catmincer]

KPP is awesome.

I've wasted too many mornings watching her MV's.

They're so delightfully bizarre.

 

[giri]

They're so delightfully bizarre.

I know!

And once i start, it's impossible to stop.

They're the pringles of MV's.

 

[vanty]

You can waste your mornings with KPP and then waste your lonely evenings with her attractive look-alike and friend Moga Mogami.

 

[rooflapimp]

I wouldn't wish my girlfriend to get plastic surgery. Korea is totally messed up when it comes to beauty standards, and it's embarassing that so many in here are defending it. It shames girls into thinking that they have to get surgery to look pretty instead of being happy with what they were born with.

 

[Dice]

I wouldn't wish my girlfriend to get plastic surgery. Korea is totally messed up when it comes to beauty standards, and it's embarassing that so many in here are defending it. It shames girls into thinking that they have to get surgery to look pretty instead of being happy with what they were born with.

Do our thoughtful posts shame you into being a trolling coward who talks shit but will never engage a real conversation?

 

[No No Eul]

Since we are discussing on how it is nice to view pleasant things, we as humans are made to appreciate good looking faces, whether on females or males. It is something that goes on in our brains. Now, if you add in plastic surgery, if said person is in motion, their plastic surgery work is really obvious, and we enter something similar to the uncanny valley in video games.

Regarding plastic surgery, not necessarily in extreme cases that you notice them. Just their normal interaction, and hoe their faces move can reveal if they did it or not.

I have to say though, AngelaBaby is the only one that I did not know that had plastic surgery until it was pointed out. That is the only case though. She did mess up her face atm, she looked a whole lot better and "natural" back in 2011.

You've got to be trolling surely. I mean, all this confidence in your ability to recognise plastic surgery and yet you failed to notice it in the case of Angelababy? lol

 

[rooflapimp]

Do our thoughtful posts shame you into being a trolling coward who talks shit but will never engage a real conversation?

Are you also OK with models who starve themselves to look more "pretty"? The plastic surgery that is being done in Korea is not the kind that is needed, in most cases. It's the most shallow kind, and it sets a bad precedent for children.

But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you don't have to look at fuglies, right?

 

[Dice]

Are you also OK with models who starve themselves to look more "pretty"? The plastic surgery that is being done in Korea is not the kind that is needed, in most cases. It's the most shallow kind, and it sets a bad precedent for children.

But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you don't have to look at fuglies, right?

I could answer this in length, but you have never given any indicator of willingness to do anything but shit on people with judgmental assumptions and then run away like a child when it takes a modicum of intelligence to actually address their views.

 

[Blablurn]

Some scans from March Esquire.

DAMN.

 

[imnana]

The whole plastic surgery debate is stupid. I don't see how something that another person does with their body can offend someone so much.

--------------------------------------

After School - &#51068;&#51452;&#51068; (Week) The intro's annoying but the songs nice, pretty much what I expected it to be. Though Jungah got way too many lines.

--------------------------------------

I'm excited for Bestie's comeback. Dahye &#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;&#9825;

--------------------------------------

Also this song is so good, didn't like it at first but so catchy.

 

[Pendulum]

Some more Esquire scans

----

Edit: WooriCross continues. Also, Happy Birthday Woori.

 

[dokish]

Holy shit those pictures.

Regarding &#48324;&#44536;&#45824; episode 19

Spoiler

The revelation of the evil brother was pretty underwhelming. I was expecting a big secret, but once he already killed that actress, killing his own brother didn't came as a surprise. Ok, it was also nice that they kept it simple without being a fight of Evil vs Good, but could be better handled IMO.

Also, the Korean people fell so in love with the main couple that I think the producers got carried away way to much with the romantic moments. I mean, was a marriage propose really necessary? They are not goddamn teenagers. I wish the finale could be a little bit mysterious. Although I have no idea how its gonna turn out, its kinda obvious that he's not gonna die. Korean dramas are too tame, and that's one of the things that I hate about them.

Also, the moment they catch the evil brother was hilariously bad. I could see miles away that somewhere would be a hidden microphone, especially after it was revealed to us about the recording pen.

Well, can't wait for the last episode. It was nice. Now I'l be able to focus on "Let's Eat".

 

[JKTrix]

Regarding &#48324;&#44536;&#45824; episode 19

Spoiler

I mean, was a marriage propose really necessary? They are not goddamn teenagers.

In the translation I saw, they both mentioned that it was childish.

Spoiler

Also, the moment they catch the evil brother was hilariously bad. I could see miles away that somewhere would be a hidden microphone, especially after it was revealed to us about the recording pen.

Well, we call that foreshadowing.

Spoiler

The older brother was not aware of a recording device. He knew his wife hid something important, but he didn't know what it was either.

I really liked the father's reaction though, best actor on the show.

I have a lot of nitpicky problems with the editing and cinematic choices in this show (why waste 50 minutes on a recap, why did

Spoiler

Suzy

glow so much and why did that scene grind the whole momentum of the episode to a halt (

Spoiler

I watched Dream High

), etc.), but for the most part the execution of the story is okay.

 

[Ym1r]

I just bought a printer/scanner and scanned some of my unfinished drawings.

album: http://imgur.com/a/G98dp

I might finish these ones. The problems i have with these four are small in comparison to the other ones. I've been trying to unlazy myself, trying to find things other than gaming to do.

I messed up in visible places though. Haeryung's eyes, nose and lips are all off... but not too bad. I was enjoying where I was going with this one though, I think I just got really lazy after sketching her form out. The hair I have now is roughly detailed, not how I really want it to look.

Taeng, the eyebrow hiding behind the hair needs to be fixed, and her hair needs to be finished. I actually like this one a little. Also her shirt looks really cheesy. also small adjustment to her left eye, it was curved like that in the original picture but not that noticeable.

Yoona is close to being finished. just some shading issues and the hair draping down in the back.

Sica needs a lot of work still, but its not too bad.

also had a strong urge to draw PJY for some reason but messed that up really bad and threw it away.

 

[oc]

nana is missing

 

[Fuzzery]

Damn, dice dropping truth bombs everywhere these last few pages, amen, brotha.

It's silly how there's always this same sort of knee-jerk reaction from some, that kpop fans only like it because of the "plastic looks" and production of it, and , and how that's somehow a bad thing. That we should feel ashamed for liking it based on these merits. I'll be honest, a large part of why I do find kpop appealing, IS because they are physically attractive.

BUT, it would be logically fallacious to conclude that, just because we enjoy kpop, that looks are all that we judge an artistic act, or people in general, on, and that we are unable to look beyond them. In fact, I think it says a lot about those that would cast those wide judgments, to be honest.

 

[Ym1r]

nana is missing

yeah uh.... I messed up on that one too much sry oc bro.

If I manage to unlazy myself I'll try another nana one.

 

[luso]

also had a strong urge to draw PJY for some reason but messed that up really bad and threw it away.

I read JYP

Spoiler

draw him. In plastic pants, lol

 

[Loci]

KISS&CRY @Arirang Radio - Domino Game, Wings

 

[oc]

yeah uh.... I messed up on that one too much sry oc bro.

If I manage to unlazy myself I'll try another nana one.

unlazy right nao, take your pick

 

[Ym1r]

holy shit those are godly pictures of nana how have I not seen those before.

 

[JustinBB7]

Damn..

I hate that granny underwear though, they do that a lot in Korea unfortunately always looks so stupid.

 

[Eldren]

Ym1r those are great! You're a talented guy. Hopefully you find some motivation soon, would love to see how they look finished.

Here's some inspiration for your next masterpiece:

You're welcome.

 

[broadwayrock]

Under a month after that free concert in L.A, the Korea Times Music Festival will take place on May 3rd .

First acts announced are: 2AM, Crayon Pop and Dal Shabet:

https://www.facebook.com/koreatimesmusicfestival

Two big multi act concerts within a month in the same city.

 

[jongkookie]

album: http://imgur.com/a/G98dp

That Taeng one is ridiculously good. Seriously.

I read JYP

Spoiler

draw him. In plastic pants, lol

Same lol.

Screw Nana, do this instead!

Spoiler

Who's PJY?

 

[Wendel Clark]

B E S T I E



dice did u see namjoo get hit in the face lol

 

[Selane]

B E S T I E



dice did u see namjoo get hit in the face lol

I did, Naeun #1 on my shitlist right now. How dare she laugh :| Well, not like I ever really liked Naeun anyway.

edit: PJY is Park Jiyeon

 

[dokish]

Sochi 2014: 1.5m sign petition calling for inquiry into figure skating gold

Piece from Yahoo UK; flawlessly written

People got really angry on my Facebook feed too.

Shit, after reading so many discussions, it is impossible not to think this wasn't manipulated.

I would be so ashamed of receiving that dirty gold medal if I was the Russian chick.

One of the Olympic judges who took their place was Alla Shekhovtseva, the wife of Valentin Piseev, the longtime president and general director of the Russian Skating Federation. Yes, a judge on the panel that determines whether or not a Russian was going to win a gold medal at a competition held in Russia is married to a man in charge of the Russian Skating Federation.

If you look at Sotnikova's score sheet, there are a couple of judges who really liked her jumps and elements more than the others. Her first jump, a triple lutz-triple toe loop combination, actually got a -1 GOE from one judge &#8212; meaning that it was performed slightly below average. One judge gave it a zero, and a two more gave it a +1, meaning those judges saw the jump as pretty basic or maybe a tad above average.

But there was one outlier who gave Sotnikova a +3, meaning that it was up there with the best the jump or element could be done. In fact, according to that judge, almost all of Sotnikova's elements &#8212; her spins, her jumps, and footwork &#8212; were some of the best he or she has ever seen

Kim Yona score sheet... take a look at this fellow. Apparently her whole performance, in his eyes, was just "meh".

 

[kingkitty]

The Russian girl's score was a little inflated, but I'm fine with her winning gold, it was a fantastic performance. Yuna is still cool even with just a gold and silver.

 

[oc]

http://www.justin.tv/tiaisoldenough

 

[Ym1r]

Yuna's FS was tame in comparison. Adelina's FS was technically better, even if it was less clean.

Yuna's SP score should have been way higher, and Adelina should have only won the FS by a small margin. Yuna winning Gold because of SP lead.

Shame Yuna got robbed in SP and Adelina's FS was generously scored. It was a great FS but not .20 (or whatever the actual number was) off the world record Yuna set at 2010 Vancouver Olympics.

Two professional skaters argued that Adelina "created an olympic moment" for her winning. If almost falling flat on your ass is creating an olympic moment I want to know what they thought about Yuna's 2010 Vancouver performance. Meanwhile a lot of commentators and other professional skaters feel Yuna won.

 

[jokkir]

Yuna's FS was tame in comparison. Adelina's FS was technically better, even if it was less clean.

Yuna's SP score should have been way higher, and Adelina should have only won the FS by a small margin. Yuna winning Gold because of SP lead.

I agree with this. If Yuna lost, it shouldnt have been by such a large margin and I'm sure everyone probably would have agreed or at least not caused such a ruckus. But that didn't happen and everyone is calling fraud.

 

[dokish]

42-minute interview with Lipservice. Cora just keeps getting better. So cute.

link

EDIT: Today I'm going to lalasweet's live performance! Will bring my camera, although I don't think GAFers listen to them.

Check this out link and definitely THIS

I mostly listen to their podcasts, I admit. They are freaking funny and one of them has such a child voice, warms my heart~